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Edhelras
2011-04-04, 03:54 AM
I tried searching, but couldn't find any threads on this topic. It's very old, but interesting nonetheless:

In Comic 541 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html)and around there, we see O-Chul and the torture Xykon is treating him with, just for fun (or to ameliorate his own boredom). One of his "games" is throwing O-Chul into the pool with the acid-breathing shark.
The roaches discuss this: "Is that an acid-breathing shark?" "Yeah. they'll let any old hack write a sourcebook these days."

I guess it must've been spotted before, by someone, but I just realized it now that I was wondering whether to buy the 3.5 sourcebook "Dungeonscape (http://www.amazon.com/Dungeonscape-Essential-Adventuring-Dungeons-Roleplaying/dp/0786941189/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top)". To my surprise, Rich Burlew was one of the authors. And in the most scathing of the reviews (the majority of the reviews are kind, but somewhat bland), two reviewers deride (http://www.amazon.com/Dungeonscape-Essential-Adventuring-Dungeons-Roleplaying/product-reviews/0786941189/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)the feature of the Acidborn Shark.

The book seems to have been issued before 2007. I'm not sure when Comic 542 was written, but probably after that. So - is this Rich's way of finally getting to prove that his beloved Acidborn shark can defend its place in the DnD ecology?

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-04, 03:56 AM
No, Rich was pretty much taking a potshot at himself for kicks, as far as I remember.

Edhelras
2011-04-04, 04:05 AM
The intriguing question would be: Was it Rich himself or Jason Bulmahn who came up with the idea/build for the Acidborn shark?

Heh... might be that this was a potshot (whatever that is?) at his old co-author, not at himself...? *conjures speculation over old, old intrigues*

The second question is perhaps more appropriate for the RPG forum - but has anyone tried out this shark in-game? Any personal experiences?

martianmister
2011-04-04, 04:09 AM
541's date is 03.19.2008

Querzis
2011-04-04, 04:23 AM
No Rich really created the Acidborn Shark. He was just making fun of himself. And no, I never really fought an acidborn shark in a D&D game. I did fight a dire camel in a swamp though (my DM read the comic too).

Mr. Snuggles
2011-04-04, 04:37 AM
I would think the comment "they'll let any old hack write a sourcebook these days" would have made the joke loud and clear, but I guess not. What about the fact that the joke was made in the last panel where jokes always go?

Edhelras
2011-04-04, 06:29 AM
Hm. I thought it was a funny joke, too. I just didn't know, until now, that it was a "real" Acid shark. So now it's even funnier, for me. :smallsmile:

pendell
2011-04-04, 08:01 AM
The relevant review (http://www.amazon.com/review/R7EMJXRTBRL6L/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0786941189&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=)



- Absurd Concepts. Two words: Acidborn Sharks. Now your dungeons can have sharks that have been magically engineered and bred to survive IN LAKES OF ACID. Why? Because too many people were swimming through the lakes of acid, so now they contain sharks to stop would-be adventurers. All these sharks need now are lasers attached to theirs heads and the insanity would be complete. :/


I guess this isn't the first bit of feedback the author got on that, and is having a good-natured poke at himself. That's good. I like an author who's willing to laugh at himself.

Although I am curious as to how an acidborn shark is intended to be used. Unless you live in an area that has an acid ecology, I can't imagine it as being anything other than a Bond Villain deathtrap.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Valley
2011-04-04, 12:05 PM
I guess this isn't the first bit of feedback the author got on that, and is having a good-natured poke at himself. That's good. I like an author who's willing to laugh at himself.

Although I am curious as to how an acidborn shark is intended to be used. Unless you live in an area that has an acid ecology, I can't imagine it as being anything other than a Bond Villain deathtrap.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Well, most of the villains in Oots are much better than any of those Bond Villains...still, a acidborn shark with lasers WOULD be cool...but where would Redcloak get the lasers?

Zeful
2011-04-04, 01:10 PM
Well, most of the villains in Oots are much better than any of those Bond Villains...still, a acidborn shark with lasers WOULD be cool...but where would Redcloak get the lasers?

Fourth Edition.

Narren
2011-04-05, 09:02 PM
we see O-Chul and the torture Xykon is treating him with, just for fun (or to ameliorate his own boredom).


Heh... might be that this was a potshot (whatever that is?)

You know what ameliorate means but not potshot? :smalltongue:

Lateral
2011-04-05, 09:07 PM
two reviewers deride (http://www.amazon.com/Dungeonscape-Essential-Adventuring-Dungeons-Roleplaying/product-reviews/0786941189/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)

...Most of those reviews call the Factotum unbalanced and the dungeoncrasher fighter 'too powerful.'

SWEET MERCIFUL FHARLANGHN WHY DO YOU TORTURE ME SO.

Zeful
2011-04-05, 11:16 PM
...Most of those reviews call the Factotum unbalanced and the dungeoncrasher fighter 'too powerful.'

SWEET MERCIFUL FHARLANGHN WHY DO YOU TORTURE ME SO.

3.5 is pretty poorly balanced all around, you can pick one piece of material for a base line for balance and with certainty declare more than 50% of the material "unblanaced" from that perspective. Because of that alone I don't bother finding a place to stand, thus all of the material is unbalanced.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-05, 11:20 PM
3.5 is pretty poorly balanced all around, you can pick one piece of material for a base line for balance and with certainty declare more than 50% of the material "unblanaced" from that perspective. Because of that alone I don't bother finding a place to stand, thus all of the material is unbalanced.

And when everything's unbalanced...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CaoIcsWZxl0/S_dUeXkWbII/AAAAAAAANQ4/pdc5en07m50/s400/syndrome-the-incredibles.jpg

Nothing will be.

Zeful
2011-04-06, 01:33 AM
And when everything's unbalanced...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CaoIcsWZxl0/S_dUeXkWbII/AAAAAAAANQ4/pdc5en07m50/s400/syndrome-the-incredibles.jpg

Nothing will be.

Cute, but inaccurate. Balance is not a binary state, something not being balanced does not make it the same as everything else that is unbalanced.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-06, 01:34 AM
Huzzah! I'm cute. :3

Swordpriest
2011-04-06, 06:36 AM
The Acid-born shark actually appears in a sourcebook? I'm impressed -- and that makes it rather amusing, too! :smallbiggrin:

Dr. Simon
2011-04-06, 08:11 AM
Huh! You'd think that those reviewers would figure that the sentence "the only thing better than a giant pit of acid is a giant pit of acid with a shark in it" was tongue-in-cheek, but I guess not :smalltongue:

Jay R
2011-04-06, 10:43 AM
Although I am curious as to how an acidborn shark is intended to be used. Unless you live in an area that has an acid ecology, I can't imagine it as being anything other than a Bond Villain deathtrap.

This is called "answering your own question." Obviously, it is intended to be used as a Bond Villain deathtrap.

That's how Xykon uses it, right? And this strip is written by the author of the Acidborn Shark, isn't it?

"No, Mr. O-Chul, I expect you to live, but with negative hit points."

Popertop
2011-04-06, 08:57 PM
The only question now is what the lasers would do.

A disjunction-laser-wielding Acidborne Shark might be my new favorite thing.

The Giant
2011-04-06, 10:45 PM
I created the acidborn shark, and I was making fun of myself.

I've never read any reviews about Dungeonscape, but I would point out that the acidborn shark was intended to be ridiculous and over-the-top, because sometimes that's fun. It's specifically stated that it was only bred to be used in dungeon deathtraps. The reviewer quoted clearly wants his D&D to be Serious Business, but screw that. If I thought I could have slipped laser-headed sharks through the WOTC editing staff, I would have.

The factotum was all Jason, though, as was the dungeoncrasher.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-06, 10:46 PM
You could have always given a shark a scorching ray SLA at-will. :smallamused:

The Giant
2011-04-06, 10:49 PM
You could have always given a shark a scorching ray SLA at-will. :smallamused:

They would have figured it out and nixed the whole monster. Trust me, some of my favorite parts of that book never made it into print.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-06, 10:50 PM
Will you ever be sharing the zanier ideas that never made it into print? :smallbiggrin:

The Giant
2011-04-06, 10:54 PM
Will you ever be sharing the zanier ideas that never made it into print? :smallbiggrin:

No. I've asked if I could throw them up on the website and been told that I can't. I'm contractually bound not to publish them. They're owned by WOTC now even if they never see the light of day, along with my Setting Search setting.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-06, 10:57 PM
Awww, that's hardly fair. :smallsigh:

Dr. Simon
2011-04-07, 04:20 AM
The reviewer quoted clearly wants his D&D to be Serious Business, but screw that.

So... only using core monsters like the Gelatinous Cube and the Rust Monster, then, and characters called Fonkin Hoddypeak and Gweek Benders of Croodle :smalltongue: I don't think Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson and co. took the game too seriously either.


If I thought I could have slipped laser-headed sharks through the WOTC editing staff, I would have.

Monte Cook beat you to it, with a sly reference in the 3.0 DMG.

suszterpatt
2011-04-07, 08:57 AM
No. I've asked if I could throw them up on the website and been told that I can't. I'm contractually bound not to publish them. They're owned by WOTC now even if they never see the light of day, along with my Setting Search setting.
So which WOTC exec's address do we send the angry mob friendly requests to petition a release?

pendell
2011-04-07, 09:41 AM
I created the acidborn shark, and I was making fun of myself.

I've never read any reviews about Dungeonscape, but I would point out that the acidborn shark was intended to be ridiculous and over-the-top, because sometimes that's fun. It's specifically stated that it was only bred to be used in dungeon deathtraps. The reviewer quoted clearly wants his D&D to be Serious Business, but screw that. If I thought I could have slipped laser-headed sharks through the WOTC editing staff, I would have.

The factotum was all Jason, though, as was the dungeoncrasher.

So.. the reviewer was complaining that a monster which was designed to be ridiculous and over the top was ... ridiculous and over the top?

Oooh-kay.

Thanks for the clarification :)

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Edhelras
2011-04-07, 04:13 PM
I created the acidborn shark, and I was making fun of myself.

I've never read any reviews about Dungeonscape, but I would point out that the acidborn shark was intended to be ridiculous and over-the-top, because sometimes that's fun. It's specifically stated that it was only bred to be used in dungeon deathtraps. The reviewer quoted clearly wants his D&D to be Serious Business, but screw that. If I thought I could have slipped laser-headed sharks through the WOTC editing staff, I would have.

The factotum was all Jason, though, as was the dungeoncrasher.

That's it for me! I'm buying this book - now!!

....

Eh.... turns out Amazon.com won't ship it to Norway, where I live...

Honestly, it wasn't the Acid shark I was interested in from Dungeonscape, more the traps and dungeon ideas. But thinking about it... wouldn't it be just cool to have your own acid-breathing shark, swimming happily in your pool of... acid... just waiting for someone to... hop in... in the acid.... :smallamused:

One thing I'd like to read more about is the biology of the acid-breathing shark. Like, how does it eat, or rather, how does its food survive long enough in the acid for the shark to eat it? And when the food enters the stomach, is the food already pre-dissolved by the acid, or does the shark have an ever stronger acidic gastric juice to dissolve its acid-resistant food? So many questions...
But if I could get to throw my players into a pool of acid, and on top of that have them fight a shark, I think biology issues would be the least of their problems!

Keejus
2011-04-07, 04:30 PM
The shark eats acid. Then it excretes stronger acid. Everyone wins!

Grendus
2011-04-07, 04:52 PM
Well, most of the villains in Oots are much better than any of those Bond Villains...still, a acidborn shark with lasers WOULD be cool...but where would Redcloak get the lasers?

Late reply I know, but awaken the shark and give it levels of warlock. Boom, laser shooting, acid breathing shark of doom. Fluff it as the wizard shredding the soul of a demon and infusing it in dozens of sharks. Boom, a LEGION of laser shooting acid breathing sharks. What could be cooler?

Edhelras
2011-04-07, 05:00 PM
When you play the computer game Civilization, your opponents sometimes pay you a diplomatic visit just to boast: "Fear my Longbowmen!" or "Fear my mechanized infantry!". But I'm pretty much immune to fear, and I always conquer them in the end.

It would be cool if one day they would make a real threat, like "Fear my acid-breathing shark! Bwahahaha...!"

Now back on topic, one more reason to buy the Dungeonscape book (if ever I could find a copy of it that the U.S. was willing to extradite to Europe... :smallfrown: ) would be to see if any of these traps (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0036.html) could be retraced - or be foreshadowing - those multitudes of traps rumoured to be bound in that book. For instance - marinating the PC in honey, then setting loose the fire ants - that's pretty innovative. One of those ideas I'd actually need a source book to come up with!

Or maybe it's from the Undermountain? I never went there myself, but I imagine that Halaster would be capable to make a crazy trap like that...

suszterpatt
2011-04-07, 06:39 PM
One thing I'd like to read more about is the biology of the acid-breathing shark. Like, how does it eat, or rather, how does its food survive long enough in the acid for the shark to eat it? And when the food enters the stomach, is the food already pre-dissolved by the acid, or does the shark have an ever stronger acidic gastric juice to dissolve its acid-resistant food? So many questions...
Digestive fluids aren't all acidic, some are alkaline (otherwise you couldn't digest acidic foods very well). The shark would simply need digestive fluids on the other side of the pH scale. Likewise, it could feed on anything acidic enough not to be dissolved by the acid it lives in.

Valley
2011-04-07, 08:52 PM
I also thought of something...would lasers make the acid burn and/or explode? Even if bred for traps, it may backfire (no pun meant). I am not sure what would make acid burn and/or explode but I assume a laser fired within a pool of it may do just that.

Can somebody test that for us? And get back to us?

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-07, 08:54 PM
Digestive fluids aren't all acidic, some are alkaline (otherwise you couldn't digest acidic foods very well). The shark would simply need digestive fluids on the other side of the pH scale. Likewise, it could feed on anything acidic enough not to be dissolved by the acid it lives in.

Oh god, I think we've found the ooze's only natural predator.

veti
2011-04-07, 10:39 PM
So.. the reviewer was complaining that a monster which was designed to be ridiculous and over the top was ... ridiculous and over the top?

Be fair to the reviewer: the section (presumably) wasn't actually labelled "Over-the-top: not to be taken seriously".

Personally I like my D&D to be over the top, but the idea of getting the OTT-ness from a sourcebook strikes me as kinda... lame. A bit like asking for official permission to play a prank on someone.

If WotC had any decency, they'd make some effort to separate the content for 'serious' gamers and 'fun' gamers, so that you'd know what you were buying before you shelled out money for it. But what's in it for them, to put a label on a product telling half their fan base not to buy it?

suszterpatt
2011-04-08, 05:45 AM
Oh god, I think we've found the ooze's only natural predator.
I was thinking baby black dragons, but sure, that works too.

Edhelras
2011-04-08, 07:09 AM
I was thinking baby black dragons, but sure, that works too.


I'm so sorry, Sir, we're fresh out of those (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html)... :smallwink:

OPM
2012-01-21, 02:57 AM
No. I've asked if I could throw them up on the website and been told that I can't. I'm contractually bound not to publish them. They're owned by WOTC now even if they never see the light of day, along with my Setting Search setting.

Are you allowed to briefly describe them and let us imagine them for ourselves? :)

Nerd-o-rama
2012-01-21, 11:12 AM
If I thought I could have slipped laser-headed sharks through the WOTC editing staff, I would have.

WotC has an editing staff?

The Giant
2012-01-21, 02:17 PM
Just say no to Thread Necromancy, kids. Stay in school.