Relationship Woes and Advice 18: Finally Legal in Hollywood

[Coidzor]

I frown deeply on non-ironic usage of "better half." The implication that someone's "better half" is someone else is, to me, deeply disturbing. It can lead to unidirectional relationships, self-esteem issues, and IRL GOTIS.

I don't think he is, I think we're just feeling a bit jocular for some strange reason.

[DeadManSleeping]

Some of my past relationship wouldn't qualify... :smallwink::smalltongue:

Maybe if you dated people your own age... :smalltongue:

Query: Did I detect some burning just now? (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=611)

[ZombyWoof]

I still feel that way about the use of "better half." "You make me complete" is a pretty messed up sentiment, unless it's "you make me compleat."

[Tiger Duck]

I frown deeply on non-ironic usage of "better half." The implication that someone's "better half" is someone else is, to me, deeply disturbing. It can lead to unidirectional relationships, self-esteem issues, and IRL GOTIS.

Seeing as I only ever had one relationship, and that that one didn't last long enough for me to use it, I have never used it in my own relationship.
I mostly use it to describe my brother and sister their partners to peoples that don't know them. seeing as they don't have any idea who I mean when I use their names. So I end up having to clarify so I choose to just describe their relationship with me in staid, sisters other half Brothers better half and so on.

And the word I use in Dutch is archaic which is why I like it so much, but I have no direct translation for it. (Wederhelft)

[Gaius Marius]

Maybe if you dated people your own age... :smalltongue:

Query: Did I detect some burning just now? (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=611)

Indeed.

Fun fact: here is the age differential of all my girlfriends (how older/younger they were):

1) +3
2) +5
3) +2
4) +2
5) -3
6) +3

Hmmm.. Although I was only with -3 for a month, since I was moving out of Dubai right after. I feel so happy to have told her that I'd be leaving before starting anything with her, otherwise, I'd have felt so guilty betraying her :smallfrown:

[Trog]

Fun fact: here is the age differential of all my girlfriends (how older/younger they were):
Interesting concept.

With a little math my overall average ends up being -6.5-ish.

Sounds about right.

[ZombyWoof]

Mine is... +.5 years. Yeah pretty boring I know XD

[Vonriel]

My overall average is mathematically undefined. :smallwink:

[term1nally s1ck]

0/0. Hardeeharrharr.

[ZombyWoof]

Just take the derivative and try again.

[blackfox]

Just take the derivative and try again.i c wut u did ther
a herp derp

As for me, counting high school and other 'relationships,' I average to +1.15. Which vaguely kind of makes sense for someone my age.

[term1nally s1ck]

sadly, I suspect his rate of change of relationships is going to be hard to find a value for.

[Coidzor]

Hmm... let's see... +1 year, +1 year, +1 year, -2 years, -2 years, +3 years.

2/6 = +1/3? :smallconfused:

[Gaius Marius]

The average is less meaningful than the distribution

[Lissou]

The average is less meaningful than the distribution

Yeah, I could see how someone who has always dated people their own age and someone who, say, had two relationship, one being +8 and the other being -8, while having the same average might have different experiences.

[blackfox]

Well fine then the distribution is +1.5 -2 +4 +.75 +1.5.
Distribution says 'Not enough data points to make accurate simulation.'
Statistics told me so, dammit. I got a B in that course, I must be right.

[Blisstake]

My boyfriend is 4 years older than me. 19/23.

Some people seem to think that's a bit weird, but I really don't see any cause for alarm :smallannoyed:

[DeadManSleeping]

So to get my average, I add up all the differences, and divide by the number of relationships I've had?

http://www.perivision.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/divide-by-zero.jpg

Note to self: do not make any more silly jokes, or they will turn into big discussions, one way or another.

[Coidzor]

Wait. What does someone who's actually just 6 months older than you but a grade ahead count as? Or should I have counted that as a +0.5? :smallconfused: Or rounding to the nearest whole year value?

[blackfox]

Wait. What does someone who's actually just 6 months older than you but a grade ahead count as? Or should I have counted that as a +0.5? :smallconfused: Or rounding to the nearest whole year value?Thus the 1.5. Means 18 months older but only a grade ahead. Or .75 9 months older and same grade.

[Serpentine]

Hm. I've had... one +3 I think (he was 17, I think I was 14, or maybe I was 15), one... +1? I think he's about a year older than me. But he was also the year below me. Ex was about a year older, or maybe less, +1ish. Current Boy is the oldest of all, +4.
...which is all quite funny, cuz I think younger boys are cuter :smalltongue:

[SquirrelKing]

Hmm, after figuring up my girlfriends ages (with the furthest from my age being -6 and +9 at either end of the scale), the average comes out to be -1.33∞...

I find that I tend to be happier with someone the closer to my age they are. Of course, being single currently, I can't tell you whether that holds true at this time :smallwink:

[ZombyWoof]

My neighbor is largely infuriating. "Hey are you busy tonight?" *genuinely sad face* "Yeah... we have a test tomorrow and we have to study." "Ah, well I was going to say that a bunch of us are going to that new italian place." "oh! We really wanted to go!" "Well we're going at around 8 if you wanted a break from studying." *genuinely sad face again* "Actually we're going to a friend's for dinner tonight..."

GRRRRRRR.

If she hasn't' figured out by yet that I like her then wtf. If she has then wtf.

She's probably sitting back and basking in my attention as we speak :smallbiggrin::smallwink:

EDIT: should've invited her to join us barhopping tomorrow night. AH HINDSIGHT!

[The Rose Dragon]

I have a weird problem. I'm not even sure it's a problem, or has anything to do with relationships, but I thought I'd post it here and let you guys sort it out.

Basically, I keep obsessing about this one girl.

It's really quite silly and I shouldn't be doing it, but I am. I'm not even sure whether she is physically attractive or not, but she only attends half the Japanese classes, and despite that is quite good at class, which makes me view her as a "worthy rival" of some sort, and I might or might not have overheard her call me good-looking. Not to mention that we have only talked twice, neither of which was long enough to form this kind of impression. I don't even know if she's single. So, half my mind thinks I should classify her as a potential mate, while the other half just thinks I should put her out of it.

So, what should I do? Try to forget about the whole thing? Talk to her more? Just ask her out and get to know her there?

[polity4life]

I have a weird problem. I'm not even sure it's a problem, or has anything to do with relationships, but I thought I'd post it here and let you guys sort it out.

Basically, I keep obsessing about this one girl.

It's really quite silly and I shouldn't be doing it, but I am. I'm not even sure whether she is physically attractive or not, but she only attends half the Japanese classes, and despite that is quite good at class, which makes me view her as a "worthy rival" of some sort, and I might or might not have overheard her call me good-looking. Not to mention that we have only talked twice, neither of which was long enough to form this kind of impression. I don't even know if she's single. So, half my mind thinks I should classify her as a potential mate, while the other half just thinks I should put her out of it.

So, what should I do? Try to forget about the whole thing? Talk to her more? Just ask her out and get to know her there?

Option 3 may be just talk to her for the sake of talking to her. Who knows, maybe she could be a good friend or add some networking value. Whatever happens afterward could just be gravy.

[SquirrelKing]

My neighbor is largely infuriating. "Hey are you busy tonight?" *genuinely sad face* "Yeah... we have a test tomorrow and we have to study." "Ah, well I was going to say that a bunch of us are going to that new italian place." "oh! We really wanted to go!" "Well we're going at around 8 if you wanted a break from studying." *genuinely sad face again* "Actually we're going to a friend's for dinner tonight..."

GRRRRRRR.

If she hasn't' figured out by yet that I like her then wtf. If she has then wtf.

She's probably sitting back and basking in my attention as we speak :smallbiggrin::smallwink:

EDIT: should've invited her to join us barhopping tomorrow night. AH HINDSIGHT!

Funny how you don't pick up on all of the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) hints about attraction until you sit back and just talk it out/think about it. And...there's still plenty of time until tomorrow night to invite her! A whole 24 hours! :smallsmile:

[loopy]

Went to dinner with this gorgeous alternative girl last night. We'd talked on Facebook a bit, and she suggested we go out for sushi. That meet-up went really well, we went back to hers, chilled on the roof of her house for a while, listened to music on her bed for a while. Good chemistry, had the opportunity to kiss her but didn't because she'd been mentioning a guy she was seeing.

Another opportunity came up, this time I took it, but she diverted it smoothly into a hug. Didn't make a big issue of it, and we continued hanging out, and we'll probably see each other again.

My issue is that I seem to have developed a crush on this girl, and that doesn't happen very often. This, I think, is mainly due to me only being good with girls when I'm not actually romantically interested in them.

So now I'm stopping myself from lurking her FB and trying to figure out what I'm going to do, haha. She is seeing someone else, but they aren't actually 'going out'. I'm also not sure how much of an indicator the not-kiss was, considering the amount of chemistry we had over the night.

So yeah... No real question, just a ramble. -shrugs-

[ZombyWoof]

Communicate communicate communicate.

[arguskos]

Communicate communicate communicate.
If that fails, do a barrel roll! Or find someone else. Either/or.

[ZombyWoof]

Press Z or R twice.

[arguskos]

Press Z or R twice.
I know that when I go on a date (well, ok, if I was to go on a date anyways >_>), I'd take an N64 controller, just in case we break out the StarFox 64. That's how you know they're a keeper, when they ask to play some SF64 with ya. :smallcool:

[ZombyWoof]

That game is a lot harder on the Wii classic controller :smallfrown:

[arguskos]

That game is a lot harder on the Wii classic controller :smallfrown:
What, you didn't keep your N64? Man, bad call! Way better than the Wii ever has been. :smalltongue:

Also, I wish that advice was a joke. I actually have my N64, all my games, and both controllers, in the trunk of my car at the moment. I seriously just keep them there, knowing the heat/cold won't hurt them at all. If a possible SO wants to hit up some StarFox 64, I'm all over it. :smallcool:

[Alarra]

With a little math my overall average ends up being -6.5-ish.
Hmm....interesting idea. Heh...my 'average' ends up being .1 years older than me apparently.
-4;-4;-3;-3;-2;-2;-2;-1;-1;0;0;0;+1;+1;+1;+1;+2;+2;+2;+10

[Coidzor]

So... I need the advice of parties who are older and hopefully wiser or at least more experienced and have some knowledge of ...the paths one's life can be led down...

Because I have no idea what to say in the situation I have found myself in.

[Innis Cabal]

So... I need the advice of parties who are older and hopefully wiser or at least more experienced and have some knowledge of ...the paths one's life can be led down...

Because I have no idea what to say in the situation I have found myself in.

You can PM me if you wish.

[ZombyWoof]

*BLINK* I need to stop listening to my "friends."

Ok so the backstory: I invited this girl to a party at my house at the behest of one of HER friends (which was *blink* because I didn't even know this person very well). She said, and I quote roughly, "I don't know you but after seeing some pictures of you I feel like I should and I can't make it to the party but we should hang out." I took this to mean, "You're cute, and I like that you randomly invited me to something."

Anyways, a DIFFERENT one of her friends warned me taht she was involved with someone, blah blah, wasn't interested, blah blah. nothing happened.

Well today just before I went out for a very awkward dinner with my buddy and his gf (and after inviting neighbor girl) I randomly IM'd her again, asking if she'd eaten and to save me. She asked from what and I said "A really awkward date where I was the third wheel." She laughed. Then I invited her to go drinking with us tomorrow night and she... wants to come?

Last. Damn. Time. I. Listen. To. Anyone.

[Coidzor]

*BLINK* I need to stop listening to my "friends."

Ok so the backstory: I invited this girl to a party at my house at the behest of one of HER friends (which was *blink* because I didn't even know this person very well). She said, and I quote roughly, "I don't know you but after seeing some pictures of you I feel like I should and I can't make it to the party but we should hang out." I took this to mean, "You're cute, and I like that you randomly invited me to something."

Anyways, a DIFFERENT one of her friends warned me taht she was involved with someone, blah blah, wasn't interested, blah blah. nothing happened.

Well today just before I went out for a very awkward dinner with my buddy and his gf (and after inviting neighbor girl) I randomly IM'd her again, asking if she'd eaten and to save me. She asked from what and I said "A really awkward date where I was the third wheel." She laughed. Then I invited her to go drinking with us tomorrow night and she... wants to come?

Last. Damn. Time. I. Listen. To. Anyone.

Grains of salt are always necessary, though I generally only accept to drop something if it comes straight from the horses' mouth, otherwise ulterior motives just seem too likely.

[absolmorph]

On average age differences: +0.5, +1, +0.5, -1= +0.25 years older than me.
The three girls I've taken an interest in since ending things with Annie have all been younger than me.

Also, update on the girl I asked out: she texted me a few hours ago because she doesn't feel comfortable with being my date to prom. Not because she doesn't like me, apparently.
It's because she thinks I deserve a date who will appreciate me. I explained that my own happiness was actually a secondary reason for asking her (the primary reason being making a pretty, intelligent, fun girl stop being sad because of her lack of date, though I didn't specifically say that) and I'd like to take her regardless. But, as stated at the beginning of this little woe, she didn't feel comfortable with it.
Alas, the hit was a foul ball.

Oh! I just remembered a conversation that was weirdly adorable.
I was talking with my friend Chris at the birthday party of another friend, and apparently he wants to ask a girl who recently joined the general group of friends out. So, he asked me if I think she's interested in him.
The way he was talking about it and was so hesitant, despite being just over two months younger than me and already having the ability to grow a full beard (the only guy in the group who can) was just kind of cute. And now I'm imagining their first date and I can't help but think it'll be adorably awkward.

[loopy]

My range has stretched from -6 to +10 years, but I wouldn't be able to tell you an average. :smallsmile:

[Tiger Duck]

Really age difference isn't that consequential, I think experience is a more relevant measure.

Going by biological age I was +-4 years older, but by experience I was +5 years younger. I think the discrepancy between those is what led to the rapid downfall of the relationship.

That and the fact that I'm boring and have almost no personality.

[Bang!]

The way he was talking about it and was so hesitant, despite being just over two months younger than me and already having the ability to grow a full beard (the only guy in the group who can) was just kind of cute.
I like the idea of a beard as a self-esteem magnifier. Or as a panache multiplier.
Actually, any way I read this is just amazing. :smallsmile:

[MountainKing]

I like the idea of a beard as a self-esteem magnifier. Or as a panache multiplier.
Actually, any way I read this is just amazing. :smallsmile:

Depends on the beard, IMO. I personally believe very strongly that a beard well kept is a beard worth keeping; a raggedy ol' soupcatcher is just... unseemly, to be polite about it. I wouldn't go so far as to say what I do is "manscaping", but I definitely take good care of my beard, which is presently... like, four different beards combined into one. It's amazing.

[Lissou]

Really, rather than age difference, I find it more interesting to think of the fact that they were all in their mid-to-late twenties. Even though I was 19 for the first and 25 for the last (so the age difference got smaller).

[Syka]

My age differences so far have been -0.75, +0.75, and (close enough to) +2, so...about +1 average? Experience levels have varied, and depends on if you are talking physically or emotionally. I was even with the first guy (both of us had close enough to no previous experience), and the next two both physically were far more experienced (the second moreso than the third), but I'm pretty sure I was the one with more "long term relationship" experience than either.

[Glass Mouse]

My age average is easy! I've only had (and still got) one +3.5 boyfriend... who got teased mercilessly back when I was 15, and we started dating. Snicker.

I'll also second the people who say that age doesn't matter as much as where you are in your life. High school, college, working, they're just vastly different places, and it's difficult to relate to someone who isn't part of your "world".
Note; I say difficult, not impossible.


I stab u all ._O

Still feels threatening to me whenever I get attention. W/e.

... *hug*

That sucks, blackfox. I hope you learn to handle it soon-ish.

[The Rose Dragon]

I have a weird problem. I'm not even sure it's a problem, or has anything to do with relationships, but I thought I'd post it here and let you guys sort it out.

Basically, I keep obsessing about this one girl.

It's really quite silly and I shouldn't be doing it, but I am. I'm not even sure whether she is physically attractive or not, but she only attends half the Japanese classes, and despite that is quite good at class, which makes me view her as a "worthy rival" of some sort, and I might or might not have overheard her call me good-looking. Not to mention that we have only talked twice, neither of which was long enough to form this kind of impression. I don't even know if she's single. So, half my mind thinks I should classify her as a potential mate, while the other half just thinks I should put her out of it.

So, what should I do? Try to forget about the whole thing? Talk to her more? Just ask her out and get to know her there?

So, any more advice on this? Since it fell to the previous page with only one response, thought I'd bump it and see what pops up.

((Also, the only girl I ever went on a date with is 5 years older than I am. Make of that what you will.))

[ZombyWoof]

If you want to talk to her, talk to her.

The main problem is you talk about how you don't know how you feel about her, and we can only help you if you know how you feel :P

[Gaius Marius]

Can I ask a very daring question to the feminine genre (or male-interested) statistically minority half of the forum ('cause Tropers/playgrounders are majoritally men ;-)

What archetype of men are you attracted to? The dorky? The jock? The European stranger?

I have not idea if what is proposed are actualy in God's will..

[Innis Cabal]

I like who I'm attracted to I suppose...I don't worry about "feminine" or "Masculine" men...more often then not the label isn't important any who actually -try- for it generally don't have the things I look for in a partner.

[Glass Mouse]

So, any more advice on this? Since it fell to the previous page with only one response, thought I'd bump it and see what pops up.

Yeah, talk with her. Strike up a casual conversation, see if you like her. If you wanna be stealthy about it, try to work together with her in class ("hey, you seem like you've got the hang of this - wanna practice/solve this assignment/whatever your teacher made you do")

Can't hurt :smallsmile:


Can I ask a very daring question to the feminine genre (or male-interested) statistically minority half of the forum ('cause Tropers/playgrounders are majoritally men ;-)

What archetype of men are you attracted to? The dorky? The jock? The European stranger?

Dorks all the way!

Jocks are nice eye candy and all, but I very rarely think twice about anyone but dorks. I need someone I can relate to, I guess.

Incidentally, my boyfriend recently stayed up two nights in a row to go potato hunting for Valve. Make of that what you will :smalltongue:

[LaZodiac]

Jocks are nice eye candy and all, but I very rarely think *snip of rest*

That's ok Glass, they don't think either.

As for the question at hand, I don't really care as long as the person enjoys some of the stuff I like, and can accept me for who I am.

[Lissou]

Nerdy for me. And European would be less of a stranger for some of us than North American :P.

[Ceric]

What archetype of men are you attracted to? The dorky? The jock? The European stranger?

Hmm, I doubt this fits neatly into any archetype, but personality-wise I like guys who are outgoing and a little quirky. Quirky so that they share my hobbies and personality, but outgoing because I'm too quiet and I appreciate someone who isn't. (Not too outgoing, though, that tends to scare me off >.>) Then... dang, that's a lot of jock hate :P I like athletes. I do wushu, and so does my ex-boyfriend. You need a lot of dedication and enthusiasm to be good at a sport, and then we build an amazing camaderie on top of that :smallsmile: I met most of my friends through martial arts, in fact. The eyecandy and occasional lack of shirts is just a bonus :smallbiggrin:

[Glass Mouse]

That's ok Glass, they don't think either.

*snicker* Yeah, that seems to be the problem.

Hooray, stereotypes! :smallwink:

[Castaras]

Can I ask a very daring question to the feminine genre (or male-interested) statistically minority half of the forum ('cause Tropers/playgrounders are majoritally men ;-)

What archetype of men are you attracted to? The dorky? The jock? The European stranger?

I have not idea if what is proposed are actualy in God's will..

Closest would be the shy geek. But I don't go for labels, and all the people I've fallen for are different. :smallsmile: Although, all have been geeks of some sort.

[Sholos]

Can I ask a very daring question to the feminine genre (or male-interested) statistically minority half of the forum ('cause Tropers/playgrounders are majoritally men ;-)

What archetype of men are you attracted to? The dorky? The jock? The European stranger?

I have not idea if what is proposed are actualy in God's will..

Fun fact about women. They're attracted to a very wide variety of men. By that, I mean that while most guys have roughly (for a given value of 'roughly') similar tastes (not accounting for outliers), women are all over the place, again, roughly speaking.

Note: I want to point out again that this is only a very rough truth. Please don't hurt me.

[ZombyWoof]

So, I went to a girl's house. We shared some really awful tequila (like wow), then we went out to a bar. We got really hammered and spend $100 on 4 people, afterwards the manager asked my name and shook my hand (that was strange). Then the girl and I went back to her place, still totally hammered, sat down on the couch, and one thing lead to another and...

I convinced her to whip out her guitar and start playing some church music and made her sing as well.

I keep finding these awesome and amazing and wonderful people. I also keep finding them too late because they're already involved in very committed relationships.

@Sholos that was possibly the most offensive thing I've heard all day. "Women have a wide variety of tastes but men don't!" Jeez that's so ignorant... I'm just going to leave it at that without saying anything else because I'm liable to earn an infraction if I really say how I feel.

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[Innis Cabal]

Fun fact about women. They're attracted to a very wide variety of men. By that, I mean that while most guys have roughly (for a given value of 'roughly') similar tastes (not accounting for outliers), women are all over the place, again, roughly speaking.

Note: I want to point out again that this is only a very rough truth. Please don't hurt me.

It's not a truth at all, rough or otherwise. Or more to the point, it's a truth in part but men have wildly different tastes in women and men just like women have varying tastes in men and women as well. So the real statement is...so what.

[Drascin]

@Sholos that was possibly the most offensive thing I've heard all day. "Women have a wide variety of tastes but men don't!" Jeez that's so ignorant... I'm just going to leave it at that without saying anything else because I'm liable to earn an infraction if I really say how I feel.

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[Innis Cabal]

It doesn't make it any less untrue either.

[DeadManSleeping]

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[ZombyWoof]

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[term1nally s1ck]

In general, women take account of a lot more factors when initially deciding if they're attracted to someone new or not.

tone of voice, body language, looks, personality, etc..

Men can and regularly do make that decision without even talking to the girl. It's based a lot more on physical appearance than it is for women.

(And that particular thing is hard to deny. Recall how many men come here asking for advice on that beautiful woman they've not really met yet, asking how to approach her for the first time.)

This means that when faced with a picture, as in various tests, women will by default assume subconsciously that a person that looks similar to someone they know will be similar in all other ways, so if their last major crush/boyfriend looks like one of the pictures, they'll find that picture far more attractive.

Looks-wise, that generates a much larger range of taste in looks among women faced with pictures, while their actual taste in men *all factors considered* is probably not that variable from woman to woman.

[Perenelle]

Can I ask a very daring question to the feminine genre (or male-interested) statistically minority half of the forum ('cause Tropers/playgrounders are majoritally men ;-)

What archetype of men are you attracted to? The dorky? The jock? The European stranger?

Umm.. I can't just pick one archetype, so I'll just describe.
Unique and independent, with a dash of dorkiness and a sprinkle of nerdy awkwardness. Baked to perfection at about 350 degrees, with a side of quirkiness and witty humor.
:smalltongue:


@Term1nally S1ck
But it's still initially seeing someone that attracts us, so I think in a way men and women do that the same way. I can look across the room and find someone attractive without speaking to them or hearing their voice and make a sort of subconscious decision that I find them attractive, but then of course that original decision can then be overridden by finding out that that person is obnoxious or has strange body language or whatever. I figured that guys would do the same thing.

[term1nally s1ck]

Not as much as you might think. A lot of guys will get to know a woman they find super attractive, only to find out that she's a horrible person. And they still find her attractive.

[Vonriel]

I figured that guys would do the same thing.

See, your first mistake was figuring that guys and girls think along the same lines. :smallwink:

Terminally sick, for me, you're confusing the issue in that statement. Yes, I will find a variety of women physically attractive, and yes, that will make me want to learn more about them. However, if I find out that she's a horrible person, I won't pursue it any further, despite the fact that I still find her physically attractive. Finding out that Adonis kicked puppies doesn't make him any less physically attractive.

[Perenelle]

See, your first mistake was figuring that guys and girls think along the same lines. :smallwink:


But their thought processes can't be that different! :smalltongue:

[term1nally s1ck]

No, but their motivations and desires can be. If their primary goal is different from yours, they'll do different things.

[Coidzor]

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I keep finding these awesome and amazing and wonderful people. I also keep finding them too late because they're already involved in very committed relationships.

Maybe you should start figuring out if they're with someone before you go out drinking with them so you don't even go back to their place after a night of drinking? :smallconfused:

[Perenelle]

No, but their motivations and desires can be. If their primary goal is different from yours, they'll do different things.

Of course, but that's true between different people of the same gender as well. So it's hard to say that each gender as a whole thinks differently. I think that everyone thinks differently together in the same way regardless of gender. That probably sounds confusing, but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say. =P

[term1nally s1ck]

I do understand, but I don't agree. Men and women tend to have very different motivations in life. IMO, that's partially based on genetics, and partially based on peer pressure and the desire to at least partly fit in with percieved gender expectations.

[Sholos]

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[The Rose Dragon]

Here's a very silly question: does regular exercise increase your chances of finding a mate? Also, do you find people who exercise regularly more attractive than people who don't? Why?

[Coidzor]

Generally healthier people have a tendency to look healthier and more attractive, as "looking healthy" is one of those things we're supposed to pick up on when searching for a mate.

If the regular exercise helps shape or maintain an aesthetically pleasing distribution of adipose and muscle tissue, so much the better.

I can't think of any numbers offhand but it seems rather self-evident as long as it doesn't cut into the time you have to seek out or be available to make a move when encountering a potential partner enough to offset the bonus to physical appearance that the exercise would give.

[absolmorph]

Generally healthier people have a tendency to look healthier and more attractive, as "looking healthy" is one of those things we're supposed to pick up on when searching for a mate.

If the regular exercise helps shape or maintain an aesthetically pleasing distribution of adipose and muscle tissue, so much the better.
Also, exercise releases endorphins, and endorphins make you happy, and happy people don't kill their husbands people tend to like happy people more.

[Tiger Duck]

Also, exercise releases endorphins, and endorphins make you happy, and happy people don't kill their husbands people tend to like happy people more.

Nice Legally Blond quote :smallbiggrin:

[DeadManSleeping]

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Regular exercise tends to make you look more fit, which always helps. Also, being able to show a moderate amount of athletic prowess (i.e. being really useful during furniture-moving day) makes you look competent, which is also good. In addition to that, knowing that a person regularly exercises tells one that the person is capable of consistency and reliability.

And then there's, you know, the fact that it makes you live longer and improves your quality of life, but that's just a side thing. Totally do it for the romantic/sexual benefits :smallwink::smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Totally do it for the romantic/sexual benefits :smallwink::smalltongue:

Indeed, I do recall something about a healthy cardiovascular system having those kinds of benefits.

[Gaius Marius]

To be honest, I think a girl slightly oversight woman at my Kung-Fu class or doing real physical activities regulary is more attractive than a lazy and unactive fit girl.

Because, I think, the intent and the effort of being careful of oneself's appearance is some sort of turn on for me. I know she won't let herself grow too fat over time. I don't mind some physical imperfections (God knows I'd be hypocrite if I was) but I mind the unwillingness to overcome them healthily.

(no anorexia girl for me)

[Coidzor]

To be honest, I think a girl slightly oversight woman at my Kung-Fu class or doing real physical activities regulary is more attractive than a lazy and unactive fit girl.

These words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean. :smallconfused:

[absolmorph]

To be honest, I think a girl slightly oversight woman at my Kung-Fu class or doing real physical activities regulary is more attractive than a lazy and unactive fit girl.

Because, I think, the intent and the effort of being careful of oneself's appearance is some sort of turn on for me. I know she won't let herself grow too fat over time. I don't mind some physical imperfections (God knows I'd be hypocrite if I was) but I mind the unwillingness to overcome them healthily.

(no anorexia girl for me)
The bolded does not work that way.
A lazy and inactive person can be thin. I'm proof of that.
A lazy and inactive person will not be fit. They may be healthy (with the right diet), but they will NOT be fit. Typically, even thin people have a lot of fat under the surface if they're inactive.

Personally, I've found myself very much attracted to girls who can kick my ass or are in some way dangerous.

[Sholos]

You're welcome. Please spell my name correctly :smalltongue:

Yeah, sorry about that. Still working out the quirks in the new keyboard.

I don't really notice if a girl exercises regularly, but I do know that the ones I've seen running are generally on the more attractive side.

[Innis Cabal]

I'd like to thank DeadManSleeping for actually reading and understanding my post.

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[Jonesh]

So I've decided to chill out a bit. If I don't hear from my old crush in about a week, I'll talk to her then.
And explain I was feeling very down the day we met just now (and why I felt down) and she knows that I'm not really weird, I just acted weird because... I was sad but didn't want to show it but it still affected my behaviour :smallsigh: If she says it was uncomfortable or something like that I'll apologize.
But considering we've known each other for almost a year now and the stuff we've done before, I think I'm allowed some lenience :smallannoyed:
/rant :smallyuk:


In other relationship news, my relationship with my mother has warmed up a bit. She invited me home and cooked me a nice dinner yesterday.
Which is good, considering we've hardly been on speaking terms before.

[Innis Cabal]

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[Bang!]

Here's a very silly question: does regular exercise increase your chances of finding a mate?
Athletic activities are generally wonderful places to meet people. Most dates start with meeting people. They're also fun things to do with people. So I'm going to say definitely. Looking good never hurts, either. :smalltongue:


Also, do you find people who exercise regularly more attractive than people who don't? Why? Beside the "why do you think X is attractive" question that pretty much goes straight to either Freudian or Just So Story explanations, people who exercise are more fit and can do more fun things. It's less fun hiking with someone if you have to check every step, and it's less fun climbing with someone if you have avoid hard problems.

[ZombyWoof]

I'd like to thank DeadManSleeping for actually reading and understanding my post.

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Maybe you should start figuring out if they're with someone before you go out drinking with them so you don't even go back to their place after a night of drinking? :smallconfused:
Oh I knew she was with someone :smallwink: She's just a friend and while I'd leap at the chance to date her (she's "my type" in all the right ways) I can deal with having an awesome friend. If she wasn't comfortable having me over she wouldn't have invited me over. Nor would she have said that we should do it again and get hella drunk and watch movies together.

I can't imagine her making a move (though she did keep sliding closer to me on the couch/at the bar) and even if she did I would say "no" because she's with someone and I will not be that kind of enabler. Cheating is a pretty awful thing to do and it makes the cheated feel awful, and if the cheater is someone who I'd be interested in, it would make HER feel awful as well. Two people feeling like crap for one night of fun? Meh.

EDIT: 1 Internets to the person who finds the Full Metal Alchemist reference in my post!

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[Coidzor]

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I can't imagine her making a move (though she did keep sliding closer to me on the couch/at the bar) and even if she did I would say "no" because she's with someone and I will not be that kind of enabler. Cheating is a pretty awful thing to do and it makes the cheated feel awful, and if the cheater is someone who I'd be interested in, it would make HER feel awful as well. Two people feeling like crap for one night of fun? Meh.

Well, I wasn't really speaking it from that perspective, more, if you're getting this frustrated by it, you might want to limit the extent of your association with such women to something less frustrating.

[DeadManSleeping]

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[ZombyWoof]

Well, I wasn't really speaking it from that perspective, more, if you're getting this frustrated by it, you might want to limit the extent of your association with such women to something less frustrating.
So what you're saying is... I should stop hanging out with awesome women because they might not be available? That's kind of... stupid.

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[Innis Cabal]

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The forum keeps eating my post so I am merely going to leave it at this.

:smallconfused:

Asking me to argue via the "scientific method" when the rest have not is absolute absurdity. Not only that, but that isn't how a debate works. If you make a claim (which has been made) it is on the person making the claim to back it up. Not for the person refuting the claim to provide evidence to the contrary. Until he proves his point via posting where he got his data he is only saying an opinion. Even then I suspect it suffers from a Fallacy of Selection Bias, which I have provided more then enough evidence towards.

I'll even post what Sampling Bias is so you don't think I'm calling anyone here biased. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias)

[DeadManSleeping]

So what you're saying is... I should stop hanging out with awesome women because they might not be available? That's kind of... stupid.

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[Trog]

Relevant link (http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/) to contribute to the discussion of what the sexes are attracted to.

[ZombyWoof]

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[Coidzor]

So what you're saying is... I should stop hanging out with awesome women because they might not be available? That's kind of... stupid.

No, stop hanging out with awesome women while drunk in a way that frustrates you, especially if you know they're already taken and it's just going to frustrate you to hang out with them alone or at least you'll be frustrated by it all when you leave the situation and reflect upon it. Or even stop doing it as much or to the extent you're doing it.

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[Innis Cabal]

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See below, because I'm growing weary of repeating myself.

I don't particularly think asking someone to cite their sources and saying that the information is incorrect or "mean spirited". I think it is rather fair to ask someone to back up their statements. The thing is, you are making a claim and while you may not see a reason to provide the evidence if you don't provide it then there's no reason to believe or even give credence to your opinion.

I'll wrap this up and then I'm out. The person making the claim has to provide evidence. They shouldn't have to be asked and not being asked does not discredit the other side at all.

[ZombyWoof]

No, stop hanging out with awesome women while drunk in a way that frustrates you, especially if you know they're already taken and it's just going to frustrate you to hang out with them alone or at least you'll be frustrated by it all when you leave the situation and reflect upon it. Or even stop doing it as much or to the extent you're doing it.
You keep saying "don't hang out with them because they're in a relationship."
You keep saying it over and over. And it's still just as bad a sentiment as when you first said it :smallconfused:

I was expressing how much fun I had with her. You're the one who said it was "frustrating" for me to be hanging out with her. I'm perfectly allowed to wish I could find someone like her to date without being all wallowy in self-pity every time I hang out with her. If you can't make that distinction you should probably work on learning to make it.


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[Innis Cabal]

I can't stay away from this, so I'm going to prove myself a liar but frankly I don't care because you're placing words in my mouth.

1. I made two posts before that posts which gave him more then ample time to provide his source. I wasn't the only one either. All he did was come in, claim we hadn't read his post and didn't understand it.

2. I never claimed he was wrong, please don't put words in my mouth even though you've been doing so this whole time. I never said he was using incorrect methods to get the details because he didn't give any methods at all. I said his statement suffered a Selection Bias Fallacy and it did. He did not account for the other options that a man or woman may find attractive. It was a complete and utter Straight to Straight statistic and thus not a full spread to make a factual statement.

3. I am going to repeat this one more time, because I'm really really tired of it. I am not required to -ASK- for proof. He on the other hand, if he wants his point to be taken seriously with any validity, must PROVIDE IT. You are hung up on this fact when I have told you time and time again that it isn't my job to make sure what he is saying is true. It's his job because he's the one stating it is true.


You can't say "Well, if you don't look at X, Y, and Z this statement is true" because X, Y and Z are important when you're trying to make a generalization. I don't find women attractive at all, so saying "Men have a narrower scope of attractive when it comes to women" is fallacies to the extreme. My view isn't "Narrow" because I don't -have- a view on women. A rejection is not an opinion, it's the lack of one. What about men who find men attractive? I certainly don't think bulging muscles and traits deemed masculine by the general populous are attractive. I don't find super skinny "feminine" men attractive either. So my view isn't narrow their either.

[Coidzor]

You keep saying "don't hang out with them because they're in a relationship."
You keep saying it over and over. And it's still just as bad a sentiment as when you first said it :smallconfused:

I was expressing how much fun I had with her. You're the one who said it was "frustrating" for me to be hanging out with her. I'm perfectly allowed to wish I could find someone like her to date without being all wallowy in self-pity every time I hang out with her. If you can't make that distinction you should probably work on learning to make it.

It certainly appeared to be the case that you were complaining how she had an SO because she's so perfect and awesome that you had to complain about having an awesome time with her after getting drunk and spending an exorbitant enough amount of money that evening to be personally thanked by the proprietor of the establishment.

If something is frustrating you then it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that you cut back on it to some extent depending upon what's necessary to stop it frustrating you. Even if you don't feel anything while doing it but instead after doing it or in telling others about it.

You didn't make that clear, rather deciding that you found my suggestions unintelligible rather than misdirected, so it would appear that we are at least equally at fault for any miscommunication here. Still, I'd recommend that you make sure that my analysis was completely out of touch with reality rather than wait.

[ZombyWoof]

It certainly appeared to be the case that you were complaining how she had an SO because she's so perfect and awesome that you had to complain about having an awesome time with her after getting drunk and spending an exorbitant enough amount of money that evening to be personally thanked by the proprietor of the establishment.
Um... I didn't spend an exorbitant amount of money. I spent a little over $100 but it was for four people, each of which is under the expectation of paying me back. The establishment only takes 1 card for whatever reason so one person has to buy and I happened to have the most funds in my account at the time. And I wasn't "complaining" about having an awesome time with her, I was extolling having an awesome time with her! I even said "we spend" not "I spend." So... you're way off base there.

In addition I shared the story because I thought it was funny. I thought it had a really clever twist in the end: guy and girl get hammered, go back to her place, and sit around talking and playing the guitar and singing.



If something is frustrating you then it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that you cut back on it to some extent depending upon what's necessary to stop it frustrating you. Even if you don't feel anything while doing it but instead after doing it or in telling others about it.
It's not frustrating me and I really wish you would stop putting words in my mouth and emotions in my head. I am really happy to know this person and I really enjoy hanging out with her and really do hope to continue hanging out with her in the future. There's no twinge of jealousy whenever she brings up her boyfriend and no "shoulda coulda wouldas" involved. I am a functioning adult and I can say "I want that cake" without throwing a tantrum when I don't get it.



You didn't make that clear, rather deciding that you found my suggestions unintelligible rather than misdirected, so it would appear that we are at least equally at fault for any miscommunication here. Still, I'd recommend that you make sure that my analysis was completely out of touch with reality rather than wait.
Your analysis is completely out of touch with reality and marginally annoying to boot because it ignores a lot of what I was saying, which is mostly that I've finally found the kind of friend I've wanted to have for a few months: someone who's willing to be at least as outgoing and random as I am and enjoys going out.

EDIT: For those of you who were curious, the song she sang was a modern church hymn that went something along the lines of "I wanna touch you/I wanna see your face/I wanna touch you/I wanna feel your grace" or something like that. The South Park episode on this style of music was PERFECT!

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[SMEE]

The Rainbow Mod: Thread opened for posting again.

[DeadManSleeping]

The thread's quiet enough that I think people haven't realized it's been unlocked. It's okay, guys! We're back to business as usual.

[Jonesh]

I'll start then!

Had a bit of a boring day at work because of no co-workers and I had to stand way inside the store instead of standing by the registers, so I couldn't really talk to the cashiers when I was bored and nobody's around like I usually do, instead I had to twiddle my thumbs a lot :smallsigh:
Some of the employees came by and said hi and stuff (I've met and talked to them before) including two of the cute employees.
The second one talked about grabbing something to eat soon-ish and I said I was going to get something soon too, but then I had to try and make a sale instead of standing around yapping :smalltongue:
She came back like two hours later, I asked her if she had eaten yet and she had, but she said she was quitting in 15 minutes and the last 15 minutes are always the longest and stuff like that... And I pondered asking what she was up to after that but I chickened out haha :smallredface:
I resolved to go and ask her anyway only a few minutes after she left because she was walking around showing customers where's what so I figured I might as well do that.
But then some man that I tried to sell to didn't seem that interested but still wouldn't shut up about his heating or something and I kept looking over my shoulder to see where that girl went, I finally got rid of him so I briskly walked to the registers just in time to see her leave :smallannoyed:

I guess I'll have to wait untill next time/month/whenever :smallsigh:

/rant :smalltongue:

Oh, and I randomly talked to some cosplayers I saw at the trainstation because in all likelyhood I've probably seen them before or I know the people they hang out with.
People look kind of like obvious Narutards when they dress up in ANBU-vests and foreheadprotectors and all that jazz :smalltongue:
Didn't do much else than comment on their appearance because I was worried I'd miss my bus if I stayed and chatted.

[DeadManSleeping]

Agh, I hate it when that happens. It slightly annoys me when people leave without saying goodbye first. An official conclusion to a social interaction/situation is at the very least polite, and usually very helpful.

Not that I should talk, because I skip goodbyes more often than not. >.>

[Jonesh]

Agh, I hate it when that happens. It slightly annoys me when people leave without saying goodbye first. An official conclusion to a social interaction/situation is at the very least polite, and usually very helpful.

Not that I should talk, because I skip goodbyes more often than not. >.>

I know what you mean, we did say goodbye though (or something of the sort) and regularly I try to say farewell as it is the polite thing to do and I think it can be somewhat annoying if people just disappear (but in the case of chatting and stuff like that I assume it's technical problems and 95% of the time that is what it is).
But my pet peeve, as you may guess, is people wasting time.
I think people should be able to reason that when I'm working and trying to sell something, I'm not really interested in hearing about something that's not even related to what I'm selling especially when somebody drones on and on about it and then goes "oh right, I'm not interested by the way" after wasting like 5 minutes of my time :smallsigh:
I'm sorry, Mr. random old guy, but I have a job to do and quotas to reach so if you're not interested why not just politely say no thanks, I don't care if you're in a hurry or just not interested, I just don't want to waste my time :smallsigh:

/rant :smalltongue:
Ranting is becoming alarmingly common for me now... :smallredface:

[Gaius Marius]

/rant :smalltongue:
Ranting is becoming alarmingly common for me now... :smallredface:

better do it to us rather than to somebody you are trying to get into his/her/its pants :smalltongue:

What the best opener to ask forgiveness to someone you acted innapropriately (with no actual bad consequence beyond her opinion) due to a cultural misunderstanding?

Like, posting a bad joke on her Facebook page that she deleted, and she told me angrily I should make that joke in private. And she is disapointed in me..?

Context: we promised to see each other for a coffee soon enough, but so far never met face to face. All previous contacts were perfect and actually comfortable and bright conversations. Did I ruined my chances?

[Jonesh]

better do it to us rather than to somebody you are trying to get into his/her/its pants :smalltongue:


It might sound a bit like you're implying that I'd hit on anyone/anything :smallwink:
But good point, although I can't recall the last time I've ranted about something in a regular conversation. I won't rant about my work while I'm working, that'd be unprofessional :smalltongue:
I do think I'll see that particular girl in about a month or so, since she has always been there whenever we've been at that store.
I won't be so apprehensive then, but I'll take it easy too. I'll try and strike a balance basically :smallcool:

I get a lot of frustration from my job and that's why I rant, oh boy the people I've met by just saying hi to every passerby... I guess that's the easiest way to find all the crazy people :smalleek:
I have however met some really cute girls, this one girl I saw had dreadlocks all the way down to her waist! I was smitten with her directly, unfortunately she couldn't stop and chat but I paid her a compliment for her nice hair as I said goodbye and she said thanks. Man, that hair. And such a nice shade of red-brown... *wistful sigh*
Come to think about it, at work is the only place and time I feel I can talk to beautiful girls completely without fear :smalltongue:



What the best opener to ask forgiveness to someone you acted innapropriately (with no actual bad consequence beyond her opinion) due to a cultural misunderstanding?

Like, posting a bad joke on her Facebook page that she deleted, and she told me angrily I should make that joke in private. And she is disapointed in me..?

Context: we promised to see each other for a coffee soon enough, but so far never met face to face. All previous contacts were perfect and actually comfortable and bright conversations. Did I ruined my chances?

Well, if she brings it up or it comes up another way you could just say you're sorry, humour is hard. She might not want some of her friends/family see that kind of humour, regardless if she likes it or not. At least that's what I believe since she said you should make a joke like that in private and not on FB :smalltongue:
I wouldn't say you've ruined your chances, but step lightly and only discuss if she brings it up. No reason digging up bad stuff just because

[Gaius Marius]

I get a lot of frustration from my job and that's why I rant, oh boy the people I've met by just saying hi to every passerby... I guess that's the easiest way to find all the crazy people :smalleek:
I have however met some really cute girls, this one girl I saw had dreadlocks all the way down to her waist! I was smitten with her directly, unfortunately she couldn't stop and chat but I paid her a compliment for her nice hair as I said goodbye and she said thanks. Man, that hair. And such a nice shade of red-brown... *wistful sigh*
Come to think about it, at work is the only place and time I feel I can talk to beautiful girls completely without fear :smalltongue:

although be careful about it. Your job is one of the place I think you should walk on eggs regarding potential dating. You don't want to be seen as the guy who ask girls out :)

But that doesn't mean it's a no-offense zone. It's just that the reputation repercussion is more likely to come biting you on the x-axis opposite side of your body...

[Jonesh]

although be careful about it. Your job is one of the place I think you should walk on eggs regarding potential dating. You don't want to be seen as the guy who ask girls out :)

But that doesn't mean it's a no-offense zone. It's just that the reputation repercussion is more likely to come biting you on the x-axis opposite side of your body...

Haha, yeah I know. After that catastrophy with my co-worker who played me and then quit, I'm not flirting on the job again, not on this job at least :smalltongue:
However, some flirting a little now and then with all the people I meet during the day is no big deal, including employees at the stores we're standing and selling in :smallwink:
I'm going to be a lot more laidback now in general of course :smallredface:

And urgh, don't get me started on reputation, been there, done that, been talked behind my back (even recently) etc. etc. :smallsigh:

[Vonriel]

I know what you mean, Jonesh. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for red-haired girls myself. :smallwink:

Gaius, like Jonesh said, you likely won't have ruined your chances with her unless she's just that touchy. As for the best opener, "I'm sorry," is a favorite classic of mine. :smallwink: Starting by letting her know you didn't realize what you did was off-limits is a good idea. From there, you need to find out exactly why what you did was off-limits so you can avoid it in the future. Good luck.

[absolmorph]

although be careful about it. Your job is one of the place I think you should walk on eggs regarding potential dating. You don't want to be seen as the guy who ask girls out :)

But that doesn't mean it's a no-offense zone. It's just that the reputation repercussion is more likely to come biting you on the x-axis opposite side of your body...
Oh, man, I've apparently gotten that reputation among my friends.
It's rather irritating to have people asking you "Why don't you have a new girlfriend yet?"
Especially when the answer is that girls have either rejected you or decided they didn't want to get into a relationship with you.
And then it gets awkward when your grandfather asks you about your girlfriend and is genuinely surprised when you don't have one because you "have a new girlfriend every time" you see him.

In somewhat related news, why do the crushes I develop seem to always involve my really close friends?
To enumerate in spoiler:

First girl I told about my feelings: best friend.
First girl I asked out: really close friend.
Second girl I asked out: best friend.
Third girl I asked out: friend since elementary school.
Fourth girl I asked out: close friend.
Fifth girl I asked out: just a friend, not especially close.
Sixth girl I asked out: friend since elementary school.
Seventh girl I asked out: I mostly got to know her after asking her out.
Eighth girl I asked out: not especially close friend.
Ninth girl I asked out: incredibly close friend.
Tenth girl I asked out: not especially close friend.
Girl I'm currently crushing on: friend who I've gotten close to in the last month, mostly due to mutual friends and the trio of best friends bringing me into the fold.
8/12 are (or, in one case, were) close friends.
Yeah...
Anyway, I'm just gonna hope I can figure out what to do with this crush.

[ZombyWoof]

Friends develop into crushes because you like them so much or they wouldn't be friends.

[Keld Denar]

Ok, so I got one...

Spoiler for length
So, I've been seeing this girl for the last couple months. And by seeing, I primarily mean sex. Its been pretty amazing, she's really everything one could hope for in a lover. Also, very attractive. She's also a REALLY cool chick. We get along, have similar tastes, get each other's humor, and have a great time enjoying each other's company in a non-bedroom (or living room, or bathroom, or car, or back porch, or...) setting. I can tell, especially in the last week or so, that she's really really REALLY falling for me. Hard. And how!

Sounds pretty awesome, right? Slight issue. I'm on the cusp of my 27th birthday, and she is 34 and has 2 kids (well, technically 3, one doesn't live with her due to adoption circumstances, longish story). I've hung out with her kids, and I really like the little blighters, and they like me (she tells me that they ask about me, whether I'll be coming over and spending the night). They are 8 and 5, boy and girl respectively.

I really like her. I really do. I feel so awesome around her, and she says she feels the same. I deeply care about her, and I feel like I could fall in love with her if I let myself. I'm just nervous about the seriousness of it all. I mean, kids are a huge responsibility, and I've pretty much decided I don't want to have any of my own. We've talked about things, and neither of us really want to give up our seperate residences and whatnot. She's been married once before, and doesn't really want to get actually married again (I don't want to get married either, so yay!), but I'm concerned what may happen if things get more serious.

I'm just worried about the impact of things if things get too serious. I mean, its not just me and her...there are the kids to think of. If I let them get too attached to me, they'll feel abandoned if we stop seeing each other. I don't know what to do. I don't want to stop seeing her, but am willing to back things off. Its wierd, but I do feel just a little detached from myself at this point.

I'm really enjoying life right now. I'm not dating anyone else, but would still consider myself to be relatively "single", and don't know if I'm ready to give that up to "be in a relationship". I dunno, it just seems so oppressive, but it seems to be where things are drifting. I feel kinda a gut feeling to both pull her tighter and push her away, and its so confusing. If it was just us, I guess I'd have be more inclined to move forward, but the kids are really freaking me the heck out, even with as awesome as they are...

So...yea...anyone want to care to take a stab at this?

[Tiger Duck]

Most kids are resilient, I'm sure they could handle it if you were to date their mum and be uncle Keld.
And if you were to break up I'm sure they could handle that also.


I'd say let yourself fall in love, but that is generally always my advise no matter what the situation is. :smallwink: so you have got to take that with a grain of salt

[ZombyWoof]

Ok, so I got one...

Spoiler for length
So, I've been seeing this girl for the last couple months. And by seeing, I primarily mean sex. Its been pretty amazing, she's really everything one could hope for in a lover. Also, very attractive. She's also a REALLY cool chick. We get along, have similar tastes, get each other's humor, and have a great time enjoying each other's company in a non-bedroom (or living room, or bathroom, or car, or back porch, or...) setting. I can tell, especially in the last week or so, that she's really really REALLY falling for me. Hard. And how!

Sounds pretty awesome, right? Slight issue. I'm on the cusp of my 27th birthday, and she is 34 and has 2 kids (well, technically 3, one doesn't live with her due to adoption circumstances, longish story). I've hung out with her kids, and I really like the little blighters, and they like me (she tells me that they ask about me, whether I'll be coming over and spending the night). They are 8 and 5, boy and girl respectively.

I really like her. I really do. I feel so awesome around her, and she says she feels the same. I deeply care about her, and I feel like I could fall in love with her if I let myself. I'm just nervous about the seriousness of it all. I mean, kids are a huge responsibility, and I've pretty much decided I don't want to have any of my own. We've talked about things, and neither of us really want to give up our seperate residences and whatnot. She's been married once before, and doesn't really want to get actually married again (I don't want to get married either, so yay!), but I'm concerned what may happen if things get more serious.

I'm just worried about the impact of things if things get too serious. I mean, its not just me and her...there are the kids to think of. If I let them get too attached to me, they'll feel abandoned if we stop seeing each other. I don't know what to do. I don't want to stop seeing her, but am willing to back things off. Its wierd, but I do feel just a little detached from myself at this point.

I'm really enjoying life right now. I'm not dating anyone else, but would still consider myself to be relatively "single", and don't know if I'm ready to give that up to "be in a relationship". I dunno, it just seems so oppressive, but it seems to be where things are drifting. I feel kinda a gut feeling to both pull her tighter and push her away, and its so confusing. If it was just us, I guess I'd have be more inclined to move forward, but the kids are really freaking me the heck out, even with as awesome as they are...

So...yea...anyone want to care to take a stab at this?
Don't worry about the kids. They're 8 and 5 and already understand the idea of loss in their life (at least, I assume the fact that you and their mother are doing the horizontal tango implies their father is at least gone from the family if not straight up AWOL). If you leave their lives it'll be just like one of their best friends moved: they'll feel sad for a while, and then do what humans do and get over it.

Also I'd say that if the kids become too much you could always tell her that you want to back off later. I would also suggest talking to her about this as something along the lines of "Hey, I am starting to fall for you. But the thing is... I don't really want to take care of kids. And I know you and your kids are the complete package, but what I'm trying to say is I don't know right now if I can be a caretaker for them. I'm willing to try it, though, because I really do like you a lot." Spell it out for her: you don't want kids, you don't want to take care of kids, but you'll give it a shot. Also make it clear that it might not work out for you. See how she reacts, is my opinion on it.

Oh and for heaven's sake: DO NOT PUSH HER AWAY. That would be bad for you if you're anything like me :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[Lissou]

One thing I'd add is, if you do get serious together, the kids get super attached, and later on you break up (lots of ifs, by the way, you're a worrier, aren't you?), I don't see why breaking up your relationship with that woman would mean breaking up the relationship with the kids.
Unless it ends terribly, you should be able to see them every so often as Uncle Keld, as someone called you.

I had a discussion about that on another forum, and we came to a consensus that the end of adult relationships should not mean depriving the kids of spending time with someone they like. If you really worry about that, talk to her about it, although making it clear you're not hoping for a break-up, just worried how it could affect the kids.

Ultimately, they might be much happier having you in their lives, even if your relationship with her is momentary. Of course, if you don't get married or live together or anything like that, that means if you break up she'd be perfectly able to prevent you from seeing the kids (unless they're old enough to do whatever they want by then), so that could be a worry if you think she might be "like that", but otherwise I wouldn't worry too much.

I think you might be over-thinking it, to be honest, and that maybe you're worried about other things. Maybe you feel it's too much of a commitment for you but you really like her, so you don't really like either option (getting closer or not getting closer)?

[Keld Denar]

I think you might be over-thinking it, to be honest, and that maybe you're worried about other things. Maybe you feel it's too much of a commitment for you but you really like her, so you don't really like either option (getting closer or not getting closer)?

And...you pretty much nailed it here. I'm so torn. I mean, I really like her, but there are some barriers in the way, the kids being a small one, but my own desires for whatever in life right now being the major one. I dunno...

[Vella_Malachite]

Keld, this may be totally the wrong advice, but why is it necessary for it to become serious-serious? Is it possible to find a mean point, where you both know that you won't be making any lifestyle changes, but you keep seeing each other? It may be a good idea to talk to her and set out some boundaries, so you know how far into the relationship you're both willing to go. Maybe take it as it comes a bit. Then again, I'm pretty inexperienced, so that might be complete bull.

In other news...aaaaauuugh. OK, status update on the guy. I went away with my parents for a week, and I got a text every single day telling me he misses me. I think I even got a couple without a greeting in them - just "I miss you! Come back soon!". I'm starting to get seriously disillusioned, here. Only problem is, I know he took his last breakup really badly, and I realise I'm treading on pretty shaky ground here. I don't know if it will come to a breakup just yet (but I don't give us very long until it does, right now). I'm talking to him this afternoon, so I'll let him know the texts were a bit much, and see how it goes. Wish me luck.
Can I get someone to smack me upside the head next time I try to get with a guy? I'm just making terrible choices...

[Force]

Grrarr... rantish rant is ranty.

So, some of my friends invite me to the library to study with them. I get there, we're having a good time going over the material... and then someone whom I shall call M shows up.

M is, to put it lightly, grade-A-hole. For a nursing student, he's a remarkable misogynist, he's got a sense of compassion the size of a pea, and he lives for alcohol-- which is fine, unless you're, you know, someone who's going to be responsible for drugs. A predilection for the substance abuse is not a good trait in a medical professional.

Yet the whole darn class loves him, the girls think he's cute, the guys think he's the best thing since sliced bread, the teachers think he's funny... and two minutes after he shows up to the study group he's running it and goes "we should move this to the [insert local bar here]." Cue one underage, non-drinking Force, sitting in the library at the study table solo.

And, not to mention, he sits next to the cute girl I've asked out a few times and has made it quite clear I'm not welcome. Which is hard to argue with, considering he outweighs me significantly and is very capable of twisting any conversation I have to make me look like a fool. Oh, and did I mention he's a rugby player who likes to push people around and has done so to me a few times?

FML.

[Innis Cabal]

In other news...aaaaauuugh. OK, status update on the guy. I went away with my parents for a week, and I got a text every single day telling me he misses me. I think I even got a couple without a greeting in them - just "I miss you! Come back soon!". I'm starting to get seriously disillusioned, here. Only problem is, I know he took his last breakup really badly, and I realise I'm treading on pretty shaky ground here. I don't know if it will come to a breakup just yet (but I don't give us very long until it does, right now). I'm talking to him this afternoon, so I'll let him know the texts were a bit much, and see how it goes. Wish me luck.
Can I get someone to smack me upside the head next time I try to get with a guy? I'm just making terrible choices...

If you're already contemplating breaking up with him then honestly the relationship is going down and there probably is little he or you can do to salvage it. Honestly, just let the guy down easy and leave it at that. You're already a step away from doing it...it's pretty much the point of no return.



Grrarr... rantish rant is ranty.

So, some of my friends invite me to the library to study with them. I get there, we're having a good time going over the material... and then someone whom I shall call M shows up.

M is, to put it lightly, grade-A-hole. For a nursing student, he's a remarkable misogynist, he's got a sense of compassion the size of a pea, and he lives for alcohol-- which is fine, unless you're, you know, someone who's going to be responsible for drugs. A predilection for the substance abuse is not a good trait in a medical professional.

Yet the whole darn class loves him, the girls think he's cute, the guys think he's the best thing since sliced bread, the teachers think he's funny... and two minutes after he shows up to the study group he's running it and goes "we should move this to the [insert local bar here]." Cue one underage, non-drinking Force, sitting in the library at the study table solo.

And, not to mention, he sits next to the cute girl I've asked out a few times and has made it quite clear I'm not welcome. Which is hard to argue with, considering he outweighs me significantly and is very capable of twisting any conversation I have to make me look like a fool. Oh, and did I mention he's a rugby player who likes to push people around and has done so to me a few times?

FML.

That certainly sucks and really there's no advice I can give that will make it better other then you only have a little more time you have to deal with him.

On the girl though, if you've asked her out and you two are a couple then she should be the one telling this dude to lay off. If you've asked her out and nothing's come of it...perhaps it's time to move to greener pastures. Are you really interested in a girl who goes for bullies?

[term1nally s1ck]

Can I get someone to smack me upside the head next time I try to get with a guy? I'm just making terrible choices...

....bicurious? I'm suddenly intrigued. :smalltongue:

[Lissou]

I think you should mention that he's too clingy and it's making you feel trapped. Maybe if he knows why you decided to break up he'll be better about avoiding these mistakes next time.
But just as importantly, maybe if you tell him that before breaking up, he'll just stop. As long as he doesn't know you don't like it, he might think you do like it, after all. Some people do.

[Vella_Malachite]

....bicurious? I'm suddenly intrigued. :smalltongue:


I think you should mention that he's too clingy and it's making you feel trapped. Maybe if he knows why you decided to break up he'll be better about avoiding these mistakes next time.
But just as importantly, maybe if you tell him that before breaking up, he'll just stop. As long as he doesn't know you don't like it, he might think you do like it, after all. Some people do.


If you're already contemplating breaking up with him then honestly the relationship is going down and there probably is little he or you can do to salvage it. Honestly, just let the guy down easy and leave it at that. You're already a step away from doing it...it's pretty much the point of no return.

I'm certainly going to try mentioning it - I know I got annoyed at my former employers when the fired me without giving me a chance to fix the problem, so what kind of a person would I be to do that to someone else?

But, like I said, I'm very wary of this. I'll let everyone know how the discussion goes...

[Force]

I
That certainly sucks and really there's no advice I can give that will make it better other then you only have a little more time you have to deal with him.

On the girl though, if you've asked her out and you two are a couple then she should be the one telling this dude to lay off. If you've asked her out and nothing's come of it...perhaps it's time to move to greener pastures. Are you really interested in a girl who goes for bullies?

On the girl, I asked her out once (last week), we like eachother, but we don't interact a ton outside of classwork (you try balancing a 17-credit load, two jobs, a 30+ hour workweek, and a demanding family). She's quitting one job during the summer and I'm hoping to do more with her then. She seems to mostly just put up with him (she scoots away from him like she's on a rocket the moment class is over), but... I see your point.

And two years may be short to you but it seems like an eternity to me :P

[DeadManSleeping]

@Vella_Malachite: Have you met females? Some of them will get pissed if their boyfriend isn't in contact hourly. He might be suffering under the influence of past relationships. Don't go into it thinking that it's his personality that's the issue.

[Innis Cabal]

On the girl, I asked her out once (last week), we like eachother, but we don't interact a ton outside of classwork (you try balancing a 17-credit load, two jobs, a 30+ hour workweek, and a demanding family). She's quitting one job during the summer and I'm hoping to do more with her then. She seems to mostly just put up with him (she scoots away from him like she's on a rocket the moment class is over), but... I see your point.

And two years may be short to you but it seems like an eternity to me :P

Hey, we've all dealt with jerks in our life, I'm not trying to tell you to suck it up and move on. I was trying to put what little positive spin can be placed on it. The guy is a pain and unfortunately pains can be charismatic and get people to follow them without trying. It bites but unfortunately it's the way things work. The only thing you can hope for in his case is that he gets caught when he gets out into the non-college world and gets his just desserts. But don't bank on it.


On the girl, she sounds like she's aware of his obnoxious attitude which is good. All you can do is stand your ground and not cave in because that's worse in the long run. He won't kick the crap out of you if he's smart and if he's not smart and does...while that would suck for you it will suck worse for him when you take him to court or call the police to step into the matter.

[Lissou]

@Vella_Malachite: Have you met females? Some of them will get pissed if their boyfriend isn't in contact hourly. He might be suffering under the influence of past relationships. Don't go into it thinking that it's his personality that's the issue.

Even if that's the case, remember that he's not writing things like "thinking of you" or "I love you" or even "what's up?" or telling about his day. He's saying "I'm missing you", which is easily interpreted as a reproach, even if not meant that way. At the very least, it makes him sound very dependent, unable to function on his own even for a single day.
I can definitely understand why it would be hard to deal with, and even if I agree that talking to him first is the way to go, I wouldn't assume that he's doing it because of previous relationships as opposed to his own issues with trust or anxiety. It's merely a possibility.
Even if he is doing that due to previous relationships, that means he's not trying to treat her as her own individual, instead assuming she's "like the other girls", which certainly is reflective of his personality, in my opinion.

[Vella_Malachite]

@Vella_Malachite: Have you met females? Some of them will get pissed if their boyfriend isn't in contact hourly. He might be suffering under the influence of past relationships. Don't go into it thinking that it's his personality that's the issue.

I'm sorry, I think I've given the wrong impression - my fault entirely. I have some suspicions grounded in other information that it may be his personality, but I'm not willing to share those because they're more personal to him, and it's not my place to say. However, if I thought that that was the only possible reason, I wouldn't be trying to talk it out with him. I hope it is because he's suffering under the influence of past relationships - that would make this whole thing work out much better. But, like I said, I do have other information influencing my view.

[Force]

Hey, we've all dealt with jerks in our life, I'm not trying to tell you to suck it up and move on. I was trying to put what little positive spin can be placed on it. The guy is a pain and unfortunately pains can be charismatic and get people to follow them without trying. It bites but unfortunately it's the way things work. The only thing you can hope for in his case is that he gets caught when he gets out into the non-college world and gets his just desserts. But don't bank on it.


On the girl, she sounds like she's aware of his obnoxious attitude which is good. All you can do is stand your ground and not cave in because that's worse in the long run. He won't kick the crap out of you if he's smart and if he's not smart and does...while that would suck for you it will suck worse for him when you take him to court or call the police to step into the matter.

I getcha. Just a little pessimistic... -groan- I think I'll just hit the hay. Things will look better in the morning.

[Keld Denar]

Keld, this may be totally the wrong advice, but why is it necessary for it to become serious-serious? Is it possible to find a mean point, where you both know that you won't be making any lifestyle changes, but you keep seeing each other? It may be a good idea to talk to her and set out some boundaries, so you know how far into the relationship you're both willing to go. Maybe take it as it comes a bit. Then again, I'm pretty inexperienced, so that might be complete bull.

The issue is that I think she's really falling for me hard. I feel kinda crappy not returning that in kind, and I grow fonder and fonder of her all the time. I know if I just let myself, I'll be head over heels for this girl in no time.

[Zeb The Troll]

Even if that's the case, remember that he's not writing things like "thinking of you" or "I love you" or even "what's up?" or telling about his day. He's saying "I'm missing you", which is easily interpreted as a reproach, even if not meant that way. At the very least, it makes him sound very dependent, unable to function on his own even for a single day.
I can definitely understand why it would be hard to deal with, and even if I agree that talking to him first is the way to go, I wouldn't assume that he's doing it because of previous relationships as opposed to his own issues with trust or anxiety. It's merely a possibility.
Even if he is doing that due to previous relationships, that means he's not trying to treat her as her own individual, instead assuming she's "like the other girls", which certainly is reflective of his personality, in my opinion.Wait, what? "I miss you" is a reproach? He's overly dependant and clingy if, once a day, he sends a text, which in no way inconveniences the recipient, to say "Just wanted to let you know that I like having you around and I miss you when you're not". That does not scream "overly dependant" and "unable to function on my own". It says "hey, I took a minute out of my day to let you know I'm thinking about you". That's hardly cause for concern. I think daily contact for a couple, while not absolutely necessary, is entirely normal. I expect that if Vella felt a little more strongly about the chap, instead of already on the verge of breaking up with him, she might think such a gesture sweet. In my experience most people (not just women) do.

@Keld - to me it sounds like your problem is only as big as you make it. If you and lady end up breaking up, the kids will adjust. My mother was married four times before she found the right person to be her forever man. My dad certainly didn't stay out of the dating game for the period between their divorce and his remarriage. I saw lots of potential partners come and go. I like to think I'm pretty well adjusted. On the flip side, I was in a very long term live in relationship with a woman and her daughter. Her daughter wasn't yet potty trained when we started dating. She was 8 when we broke up. That young lady (she's 15 now) is one of the most amazing kids I've ever met. The kids will be fine.

But you've already stated that's not your biggest concern. So, to be repetitive, talk to your lady about your concerns. There's a very real chance she shares them and getting it out on the table could very well make both of you feel better. Make an honest statement like "Look, I like you and I like where we are right now and I'm afraid of how I might handle it if we keep going. And frankly, I'm not entirely sure I'm ready for something more serious than what we have right now. I like you, and I'm not trying to break up with you. I just wanted to share some things that have been on my mind lately and maybe get your input on it. Thoughts?"

[Innis Cabal]

Wait, what? "I miss you" is a reproach? He's overly dependant and clingy if, once a day, he sends a text, which in no way inconveniences the recipient, to say "Just wanted to let you know that I like having you around and I miss you when you're not". That does not scream "overly dependant" and "unable to function on my own". It says "hey, I took a minute out of my day to let you know I'm thinking about you". That's hardly cause for concern. I think daily contact for a couple, while not absolutely necessary, is entirely normal. I expect that if Vella felt a little more strongly about the chap, instead of already on the verge of breaking up with him, she might think such a gesture sweet. In my experience most people (not just women) do.

I honestly think it depends on the person. My Ex-Fiancée wanted me to text or call her at least twice a day and would come home screaming angry if I slipped up even if I was at work or some other situation. On the other hand, I had some friends who'd go a week without talking to their girl/boyfriends and they're married with kids and are perfectly happy. Heck, the people I live with right now the boyfriend will just up and leave without saying anything to anyone and they're relationship is working out ok from the looks of it. It's just an eccentric trait you can't force people to drop.

Interpersonal contact varies, and while most might find it a kind gesture I'm not certain everyone would find it such if it happened every single day. If you're not a fan of it, you should stop it before it becomes something you resent about the person and make sure the other person understands it just bugs you so they don't resent you either.

[Zeb The Troll]

I honestly think it depends on the person. My Ex-Fiancée wanted me to text or call her at least twice a day and would come home screaming angry if I slipped up even if I was at work or some other situation. On the other hand, I had some friends who'd go a week without talking to their girl/boyfriends and they're married with kids and are perfectly happy. Heck, the people I live with right now the boyfriend will just up and leave without saying anything to anyone and they're relationship is working out ok from the looks of it. It's just an eccentric trait you can't force people to drop.

Interpersonal contact varies, and while most might find it a kind gesture I'm not certain everyone would find it such if it happened every single day. If you're not a fan of it, you should stop it before it becomes something you resent about the person and make sure the other person understands it just bugs you so they don't resent you either.Fair enough, but my point still stands. Once a day "I miss you" text should garner, at most, a conversation advising your partner that you think it's more than necessary, not a knee jerk "AAAHHH CLINGY CODEPENDANT!"

[Innis Cabal]

Oh, I agree with that fully. One text a day isn't co-dependence.

[Lissou]

Wait, what? "I miss you" is a reproach?

It can be. It really depends on the person, but if that's all he's saying... I knew a guy, he would send texts like that, and then it turned into "please write to me I can't take it anymore I miss you too much" (I had texted him the day before, and it was his first text of the day. It's not like he had sent me some before and I didn't answer of something). I replied with something like "we're done here, I feel like I'm your prisoner". That guy stressed me out like you wouldn't believe, with these "I miss you". He sounded desperate, like I was his drug and he was in withdrawal. I didn't feel appreciated at all, he didn't seem like he liked me for any of my qualities, just because he was dependent.
We weren't even dating, either, or anything -_-' Very creepy guy.

Now, other people telling me they miss me might be fine, but they always say something else, not just that. At least "hi" and "how are you doing?" and something about their day.

Your mileage may vary, I guess. I don't think staying in touch every day is bad, by the way, that's always been a minimum with me, but "I miss you" with nothing else isn't an exchange. To me, it sounds too much like "I'm suffering, and it's your fault".

[Innis Cabal]

We weren't even dating, either, or anything -_-' Very creepy guy.

This is a bit of context that should have been added to the whole thing. Not only that, but the fact it wasn't just a "I miss you" once a day but more -after- was another part of the puzzle you could have included. :smalltongue:

It's something totally different to send a text to someone you're dating that you miss them and spam a person who you're not dating with texts that you miss them and they can't live without you.

[ZombyWoof]

In other news...aaaaauuugh. OK, status update on the guy. I went away with my parents for a week, and I got a text every single day telling me he misses me. I think I even got a couple without a greeting in them - just "I miss you! Come back soon!". I'm starting to get seriously disillusioned, here. Only problem is, I know he took his last breakup really badly, and I realise I'm treading on pretty shaky ground here. I don't know if it will come to a breakup just yet (but I don't give us very long until it does, right now). I'm talking to him this afternoon, so I'll let him know the texts were a bit much, and see how it goes. Wish me luck.
Good luck with your conversation.



Can I get someone to smack me upside the head next time I try to get with a guy? I'm just making terrible choices...
No. But I will gladly be here for you to rant to when you screw up the next time. And when you screw up after that, and after that. I also look forward to hearing about all those times when you just can't bring yourself to stop madly grinning because of that super wonderful and special thing the next boy does.

Relationships are ups and downs: try to focus on the "up" and to deal with the "down" as best as possible.

[Zeb The Troll]

It can be. It really depends on the person, but if that's all he's saying... I knew a guy, Yeah, this is a very specific circumstance that has all kinds of other problems that don't really apply to an otherwise uncontexted "I miss you" between two partners in a romantic relationship. There's a lot of subtext in your example that makes it pretty unique. I don't think most people would react to "I miss you" with "I feel like a prisoner".

[Vella_Malachite]

Aaaalright. So I talked to him. I told him the texts were a bit much, and he apologised for crowding me and agreed to back off.

Awesome, I thought. This will work out well.

But, he still told me he'd missed me about ten times after that. I'm getting mixed signals: I say I'm afraid I don't need him as much as he needs me, to which he says "I don't need you - I just really like spending time with you", and then keeps telling me he missed me, and then apologising for crowding me. Kinda like what happened when I asked him not to ask me what I'm thinking about because it stresses me out: instead of getting "What are you thinking?" I get "Can I ask you what you're thinking?"

But, hey. I'll give him a little while to adjust. I'm sure he's just as clueless as me right now, we're both feeling our ways a bit. A week away helped me a lot, so I'm willing to wait a little for the change.


No. But I will gladly be here for you to rant to when you screw up the next time. And when you screw up after that, and after that. I also look forward to hearing about all those times when you just can't bring yourself to stop madly grinning because of that super wonderful and special thing the next boy does.


Awww, ZombyWoof...you're making me tear up...:smallwink:

[ZombyWoof]

Aaaalright. So I talked to him. I told him the texts were a bit much, and he apologised for crowding me and agreed to back off.

Awesome, I thought. This will work out well.

But, he still told me he'd missed me about ten times after that. I'm getting mixed signals: I say I'm afraid I don't need him as much as he needs me, to which he says "I don't need you - I just really like spending time with you", and then keeps telling me he missed me, and then apologising for crowding me. Kinda like what happened when I asked him not to ask me what I'm thinking about because it stresses me out: instead of getting "What are you thinking?" I get "Can I ask you what you're thinking?"
It's clear he just doesn't get it. He doesn't understand or can't comprehend what you're asking of him. I... hate doing this but I advocate termination of the relationship.



But, hey. I'll give him a little while to adjust. I'm sure he's just as clueless as me right now, we're both feeling our ways a bit. A week away helped me a lot, so I'm willing to wait a little for the change.
Don't hold your breath. It sounds like he has a history of completely missing the point and I don't think it's going to end up well for you.



Awww, ZombyWoof...you're making me tear up...:smallwink:
I just don't want to see you get discouraged off of guys because you happen to run into some that don't work out! If we were allowed to do that I don't think I'd even talk to women :smallwink: But I really do mean it: you know where my PM box is and it's always open, and I constantly read this thread. Just... try to balance negative with positive :smallwink: It may not always be possible, but hey!

EDIT: OH HEY GUESS WHO JUST SHOWED UP? Yeah, my roomate's girlfriend who, despite not living here, keeps her pets here and has spent literally every single waking moment that she is NOT at work at our house. This is bananas.

Oh well, his life, his mistakes. It'll be really funny when it all splits in half.

[Lissou]

Yeah, this is a very specific circumstance that has all kinds of other problems that don't really apply to an otherwise uncontexted "I miss you" between two partners in a romantic relationship. There's a lot of subtext in your example that makes it pretty unique. I don't think most people would react to "I miss you" with "I feel like a prisoner".

Yes, I know that. If you look at my first reply, it said to give him the benefit of the doubt and tell him how she felt first. I'm just saying that depending on the person and circumstances, it can be creepy and needy, and in the meantime Vella had said she had other reasons to feel that guy was clingy.

[Tiger Duck]

It's clear he just doesn't get it. He doesn't understand or can't comprehend what you're asking of him. I... hate doing this but I advocate termination of the relationship.


As the guy whom has been That Guy he might understand and still not be able to stop himself. Which would mean you two aren't particularly compatible peoples. If you care enough about him you might give him some more time to adapt to your wishes, but it's very possible that he will never be able to change that point in himself. And if he can't and it keeps bothering you, it would be for the best to break up.

And that he might take it bad should not stop you from breaking up. Even if you were the cause, you would not be responsible for his happiness. no matter how much he would like that being the case.

[Ricky S]

Hey guys and girls. I dont really post much in this thread but I finally have something to post about.

I met a girl recently and we have been on a few dates that went really well. But I had a bad date with her last night and I got the sense that she doesnt want to see me again because of it. I really want to see her again but I am not sure how I should go about doing this? She is really self conscious and I think she thinks that I dont find her attractive. I have complimented her frequently but she doesnt seem to think it is sincere. I havent called her or anything yet because I dont want to say something I regret.

Should I apologise for the bad date or just pretend it didnt happen? Also how long should I wait before calling her? I really dont want to seem needy but I dont want to look like I am uninterested anymore either. Please Help! (panicking on the inside :smalleek:)

[Tiger Duck]

Don't do anything while you are panicking, chances are you'll regret it.

One bad date isn't the end of the world, Just wait roughly the same amount of time you did after the good dates before suggesting a new one. Try to determine what went wrong with this one and right with the others and learn from it.

I have no idea how you could make it clear to her that you do find her attractive.

[Vella_Malachite]

Really all you can do is apologise. I really wouldn't advocate ignoring it. Do you see her outside dates? If you do, e.g., you go to school together or some similar regular meeting-place, I'd wait until next time you see her there and tell her face-to-face that you're sorry about the date. Try to explain why the things that went wrong did so, but don't try to blame them on external circumstances, unless that was legitimately what happened. If not, call her this evening or tomorrow, and do the same thing.

It's up to her whether she accepts the apology, but I'd say if she doesn't accept it, you've either gone far more wrong than I thought, or she's probably not Mrs. Right, and I'm sorry, but there's plenty of nice people out there. Good luck, and my well-wishes.

[Zeb The Troll]

Yes, I know that. If you look at my first reply, it said to give him the benefit of the doubt and tell him how she felt first. I'm just saying that depending on the person and circumstances, it can be creepy and needy, and in the meantime Vella had said she had other reasons to feel that guy was clingy.But what originally caught me was "can easily be interpreted as a reproach" when, in my view, it should rarely be interpreted that way and, even then, only in very specific and peculiar circumstances that most of us aren't likely to encounter. Circumstances like 'you're being stalked'.

And then you went on to say "At the very least, it makes him sound very dependent, unable to function on his own even for a single day," like this is a totally normal intepretation. You didn't say "could be construed as, in certain rare circumstances...". I submit that this is very much not a normal intepretation of "I miss you", as a non-invasive text message, once a day, while you're out of town.

[ZombyWoof]

Hey guys and girls. I dont really post much in this thread but I finally have something to post about.

I met a girl recently and we have been on a few dates that went really well. But I had a bad date with her last night and I got the sense that she doesnt want to see me again because of it. I really want to see her again but I am not sure how I should go about doing this? She is really self conscious and I think she thinks that I dont find her attractive. I have complimented her frequently but she doesnt seem to think it is sincere. I havent called her or anything yet because I dont want to say something I regret.

Should I apologise for the bad date or just pretend it didnt happen? Also how long should I wait before calling her? I really dont want to seem needy but I dont want to look like I am uninterested anymore either. Please Help! (panicking on the inside :smalleek:)
Wait bad how? Like if it was just a not-fun date or something awful happened that was a coincidence (the waiter brought her peanut soup when she was allergic to peanuts) then you don't really need to apologize. I guess I'd like more info before I give advice with regards to apologizing or not. PM box open if that's better (which reminds me I need to delete some).

Also there are no timelines for this, but DO NOT CALL HER WHILE YOU ARE PANICKED. Wait until you calm down first.

[Lissou]

But what originally caught me was "can easily be interpreted as a reproach" when, in my view, it should rarely be interpreted that way and, even then, only in very specific and peculiar circumstances that most of us aren't likely to encounter. Circumstances like 'you're being stalked'.

Ah, I see. I probably used the wrong words. I meant to say it could be interpreted as a reproach, not that it was the logical, normal, most common interpretation.


And then you went on to say "At the very least, it makes him sound very dependent, unable to function on his own even for a single day," like this is a totally normal interpretation.

I don't know, repeating that every day instead of having an actual conversation... I guess I might have gone overboard in that direction, but I still don't think it's something that need to be repeated every single day. And When I said "even for a single day" it was due to the fact the messages started right away and were about missing her. I mean, she was only going to be away for a week. It just doesn't seem that long to me I guess.

But I'll agree I was excessive in my choice of words. I only meant that I feel if he had past experiences when he wasn't affectionate enough, messages such as "I miss you" didn't seem to me to be as affectionate as things like "I love you" or "thinking of you" or even just asking "What's up?"

[Coidzor]

Hey guys and girls. I dont really post much in this thread but I finally have something to post about.

I met a girl recently and we have been on a few dates that went really well. But I had a bad date with her last night and I got the sense that she doesnt want to see me again because of it. I really want to see her again but I am not sure how I should go about doing this? She is really self conscious and I think she thinks that I dont find her attractive. I have complimented her frequently but she doesnt seem to think it is sincere. I havent called her or anything yet because I dont want to say something I regret.

Should I apologise for the bad date or just pretend it didnt happen? Also how long should I wait before calling her? I really dont want to seem needy but I dont want to look like I am uninterested anymore either. Please Help! (panicking on the inside :smalleek:)

There's two schools of thought here. One is that it all basically depends on what made it a bad date and why she'd be upset with you.

The other is that one shouldn't pursue women who call you a liar that's trying to manipulate her to get something out of her to your face or ones that have such deep trust/self-image issues that they can't believe they're being honestly complimented by someone who is pursuing them romantically. Just leads to strife because they crazy or just plain crass.

How on earth could you appear uninterested when you've asked her out on several dates anyway?

[Ricky S]

I should probably be more specific. The date itself was fine. It was after. The sex was... akward. It was our first time together in that sense and it just didnt go well. I dont think it was anyone's fault. It just went badly.

I think I should apologise for that though or we should at least talk about it.

I dont see her on a regular basis because we both go to different universities so for face to face it would have to be another date.

I do hope one bad date doesnt mean the end of the world because I really like her. I think she probably feels like we arent compatible though.

[Vella_Malachite]

I'd still advocate not just ignoring it. It's probably best talked over, but I appreciate that it can be an awkward topic...I'll have to hand over here to other Playgrounders with more experience.

[Ricky S]

There's two schools of thought here. One is that it all basically depends on what made it a bad date and why she'd be upset with you.

The other is that one shouldn't pursue women who call you a liar that's trying to manipulate her to get something out of her to your face or ones that have such deep trust/self-image issues that they can't believe they're being honestly complimented by someone who is pursuing them romantically. Just leads to strife because they crazy or just plain crass.

How on earth could you appear uninterested when you've asked her out on several dates anyway?

I think it is just because she is really self conscious and she needs the re-assurance that I do like her. I dont think she has only been out with more than one guy before and it ended badly from what she has said about it so she is not very confident.

[ZombyWoof]

I should probably be more specific. The date itself was fine. It was after. The sex was... akward. It was our first time together in that sense and it just didnt go well. I dont think it was anyone's fault. It just went badly.

I think I should apologise for that though or we should at least talk about it.
"Sorry I sucked in bed" seems like just a stupid conversation to have. Call her and ask if she wants to hang out. When you do go out, talk about what happened.



I do hope one bad date doesnt mean the end of the world because I really like her. I think she probably feels like we arent compatible though.That can be resolved by conversation!

[Lissou]

About the confidence thing, in my experience there isn't much you can do. Confidence has to come from within. You can tell her she is beautiful all you want, she has to accept the compliments and believe in them for them to make her happier.
Sometimes, complimenting someone with a low self-esteem can even have the opposite effect. They start comparing the compliments to "what they really are" and feel even worse about themselves. Sadly, it's not likely that you can change that yourself if she doesn't trust you first.

I would suggest not showering her with compliments. The more you make it sound like you have to repeat it all the time, the less she might feel you mean it. Compliment her from time to time because you feel like it, but don't overdo it, and let her trust you for your actions.

Sadly, it might never really work. I know after five years together my husband still kept asking "do you regret being with me? Are you going to leave me?". In the end I did leave him, in big part because there are limits to how much you can take that kind of stuff and keep reassuring people about the same things over and over again. Part of me still feels like he wanted me to so he could feel he was right about it.

It's not her fault she has a low image of herself, but it won't get better through your words only. She needs to be able to see it in herself and believe it. And I would think that a therapist, for instance, would probably help her much more than you can, as much as you want to.

[ZombyWoof]

Man my roomate is the least considerate person on earth. {Scrubbed} when he knows I'm awake and in the same room? IT IS REALLY ANNOYING WHEN YOU DO THAT BRO. I TOLD YOU THAT WHEN YOU TRIED IT LAST TIME AND IT PISSED ME OFF THEN.

I can't wait to move out.

[Zeb The Troll]

But I'll agree I was excessive in my choice of words. I only meant that I feel if he had past experiences when he wasn't affectionate enough, messages such as "I miss you" didn't seem to me to be as affectionate as things like "I love you" or "thinking of you" or even just asking "What's up?"I'm starting to see the disconnect. It seems you and I are working on different interpretations of "I miss you" and those interpretations are likely based on context that neither of us have and so we're each inserting a context that seems normal to ourselves. For instance, Alarra tells me she misses me all the time. Sometimes, I'll leave for work and before I get there (I have a 45 minute commute) I'll have an email from her saying "I miss you" even though I'll be home in a mere 8 hours or so, several of which she'll be sleeping through (I work the midnight shift). To me, these are "I miss you! :smallsmile:" with a subtext of "I'm so happy you're a part of my life and I'd much rather have you here at home with me than there at that drab work place where you have to be." Your default sounds to be more like "I miss you. :smallfrown:" with a subtext of "I don't know joy unless you're around. Please come back to me quickly." In this latter case, your reactions seem much more reasonable. Do you see how, in my case, they sound way out of line?

Or I could be completely off base here. :smallcool:

[Coidzor]

Man my roomate is the least considerate person on earth. {Scrubbed the post, scrub the quote.} when he knows I'm awake and in the same room? IT IS REALLY ANNOYING WHEN YOU DO THAT BRO. I TOLD YOU THAT WHEN YOU TRIED IT LAST TIME AND IT PISSED ME OFF THEN.

I can't wait to move out.

... ... ... What an odd pair of birds they are.

edit: I recommend discouraging them from using you in such a way.


I should probably be more specific. The date itself was fine. It was after. The sex was... akward. It was our first time together in that sense and it just didnt go well. I dont think it was anyone's fault. It just went badly.

I think I should apologise for that though or we should at least talk about it.

I dont see her on a regular basis because we both go to different universities so for face to face it would have to be another date.

I do hope one bad date doesnt mean the end of the world because I really like her. I think she probably feels like we arent compatible though.

Hmm. That is definitely a bit tricksy. I'd recommend that you take steps to prevent a repeat of that scenario, though it does seem like some of that will probably need to be addressed verbally at some point, depending on what the issue on that front is, though... I'd recommend that conversation happen in person. Probably has to happen in person, actually.

What makes you think she feels you aren't compatible? Other than, well, in this particular regard.

[ZombyWoof]

I don't really like her because of things she's done. I really don't like him much because he's amazingly inconsiderate. That's all there is to it.

[Lissou]

@Zeb: yes, I can see that. It doesn't help that the written word doesn't have intonations or body language, either, leaving one to interpret things, and that we don't know the guy enough to make a more informed guess.

[Gaius Marius]

I don't really like her because of things she's done. I really don't like him much because he's amazingly inconsiderate. That's all there is to it.

May I ask how you ended up with him? A classified, or you knew him beforehand?


Good news everybody! I am past my Scott Pilgrim stage! Had a talk over the internet with Lady 17 yesterday, and she told me stuff that completely defatuated my interest in her. HUZZZZAAAAH!! :smallbiggrin:

However, she is still a nice person, I just can't stand the way she thinks of her own life in the person I'll have as my life partner. So kinda of dealbreaker. However, it means I can still be friend with her, as long as I have nothing to do with her.

(I don't think I have ever been so happy to have felt turned off by a girl. It's probably the best way for me to go, as if I had stopped being interested in her because of a "forbidden fruit" limit, it might have led to further problems)


All right. And now, I'll stray into parano-land, please yank me out and slap me if you feel I am simply lost into my own imagination. The lady that I offended the other night? Well she connected on FB yesterday for the first time ever.

I saluted her, ask her how she was. She replied that she's well, but she was going to be, so good night. And she disconnected. So I simply finished with the classic, un-upset "good night, hope to talk to you another day". Don't want to sound clingy or anything.

Thing is, about an hour later, before going to sleep, I connected on my FB and I saw she was online. I didn't felt like trying to talk to her right now (too sleepy) but then I noticed she disconnected about 5 seconds after I logged on. Coincidence? Maybe. Deliberate avoidance? .... maybe? :smalleek:

I don't want to impose on her. If she never want to talk to me again, I'll just probably delete her from Facebook and never think about it.. If she had made this clear.

Am I just imaginating things? Should I think she is deliberate, but it's just temporary? Or she just doesn't have the balls to tell me to piss off?

Any suggestions?

[Syka]

I know I've had times where my friends and I's log ons were completely out of synch. >>


Zeb, I interpret it like you do. Oz and I are the same way, particularly if it's been >24 hours since we last saw each other. Not because we need to be with each other to feel complete or whatever, but because we just enjoy each other that much. Stuff that is fun alone or with other friends becomes better with each other, that sorta thing. So we miss each others presence. And it is by no means a reproach, and never have I used it as such in any relationship.


Vella, I'll reiterate what I said before- you two might/probably just have completely incompatible desires when it comes to time together and involvement in each others lives. This isn't wrong or bad or anything. It just means it'll be hard to find a middle ground where one of you isn't feeling either smothered or neglected, or both of you feeling your respective negative.

And it doesn't sound like either of you CAN compromise on this. If it keeps up for much longer, relationship termination may be called for. Kinda like frequency of sex, frequency of non-intimate contact is a very contentious issue and is difficult to reach a happy medium with, at least when the desires of the two partners are more than moderately different.

[Lissou]

Congrats on being turned off your 17 year old, I guess? :smallbiggrin:

About the other woman, well, it's possible she was avoiding you, it's possible she wasn't. Maybe she couldn't sleep, but she also didn't want to chat as she wanted to be able to leave any time. Maybe when she saw you again she was afraid you'd think she lied (even though she was telling the truth and hen couldn't sleep, for instance) so she left.
There is a bunch of possibilities. I've certainly been guilty of both of these. Also, not feeling like talking to anyone at all.

If she really didn't want to see you, though, it would have made more sense for her to set herself as "appear online", then you wouldn't have even known she was there.

[Trellan]

Another perspective on Facebook chat: it is notoriously awful for having you as online up to an hour after you actually log off. Seriously, I've had friends think I was ignoring them because Facebook insisted I was still online long after I had turned off my computer. It happens.

[term1nally s1ck]

Don't read anything into online/offline on facebook. It doesn't update properly. I've logged on and seen MYSELF online. From the previous night.

[Gaius Marius]

Thanks for the cold water everybody. I needed this :smalltongue:


Hope I'll get to patch things up with the girl. She's really not a bad person, AFAIK, quite bright and interesting.


Plus, if I gotta believe her pictures, she's a certified babe. Can't lose that, no? :smallamused:

[golentan]

Reposting from the LGBT thread:

Hey. You may remember I mentioned I had a crush on a fellow from my theater group and wasn't sure how to ask him if he was interested (mmm... ginger beard...). Lix at least knows he's been in my thoughts a lot more than that.

I suggested we should hang out. He suggested a movie (but neither of us really watches movies as it turns out). So now, he's coming over to my house for drinks and goofing off later this week. Just the two of us.

I have no gaydar. I have no idea how to read people. I half think we were both trying to edge around asking each other on a date without being obvious about it, but I DON'T KNOW!!! I don't know if I should try putting the moves on him.

That said, I have a crush on him. If he isn't already, the instant I make a move he will be exclusively interested in women, nothing, or particularly fragrant fungi.

Probably goes in Relationship Woes and Advice (I'm going to put it there as well).

[ZombyWoof]

Pretty easy tbh. Talk to him about it and explain that you're interested in him. THe "problem" you describe of maybe he's not into you isn't something that will be changed by not talking to him.

Oh and I never suggest "putting on the moves" or playing any silly game like that. The words, "Hey, I really think you're quite cute" have yet to fail me. Plus at the very worst it's a compliment.

[Coidzor]

Probably better to find out something more concretely before trying to make a move while you're both over at your place.

As by then if you get a negative response it'll be a really negative one what with all of the ways inviting someone you want to sex up to your place and getting them drunk can be interpreted to your detriment.

[Jonesh]

Haha well, so I talked to my boss and she said we're probably not gonna stand and sell in stores much more now that the weather is so much nicer.
So now if there was a chance of me asking out that cute girl that maybe possibly could have insinuated that we could grab lunch or whatever, I've missed it. Thank you old guy who wasted my time :smallannoyed:

I could actually go to that store and buy something I need and maybe talk to her then, but if I don't see her I won't have a reason to go back there.
Also, that's a lot of effort for a big maybe. That is, enough effort to actually be a bit That Guy-ish.
Oh well...

[golentan]

Pretty easy tbh. Talk to him about it and explain that you're interested in him. THe "problem" you describe of maybe he's not into you isn't something that will be changed by not talking to him.

Oh and I never suggest "putting on the moves" or playing any silly game like that. The words, "Hey, I really think you're quite cute" have yet to fail me. Plus at the very worst it's a compliment.

That was kind of what I meant by "putting on the moves." I wasn't going to go for an unsolicited kiss or the like, more ask if he might be interested down the road.

I just... don't know... gah...

I get all flustered and panicky when I get a crush. All my normal ability to be direct without massive self doubt and second guessing goes right out the window. And I worry if I go my normal route (hey, do you find me at all attractive?) given that we weren't able to set up plans outside my house it will look... well, like coidzor put it. And I don't want the evening to end in unbearable awkward "I should be going now"-ness.

[Serpentine]

Oh and I never suggest "putting on the moves" or playing any silly game like that.I disagree. I love those "silly games", and unless there's a time constraint (e.g. someone else is interested, you're madly in like and want to "advance to the next stage" asap, etc) I don't believe there's anything wrong with them.
In fact, on a personal note, if you put me in a spot where I have to make a decision, I'm more likely to get scared off. But that's just me.

Golly: Just have this interaction and enjoy it. If something happens to solve your puzzle in the process, yay! If not, you've got something upon which to build it later.

[ZombyWoof]

I disagree. I love those "silly games", and unless there's a time constraint (e.g. someone else is interested, you're madly in like and want to "advance to the next stage" asap, etc) I don't believe there's anything wrong with them.
In fact, on a personal note, if you put me in a spot where I have to make a decision, I'm more likely to get scared off. But that's just me.
Games *are* fun, but in this case he has a burning question.

[Jonesh]

That was kind of what I meant by "putting on the moves." I wasn't going to go for an unsolicited kiss or the like, more ask if he might be interested down the road.

I just... don't know... gah...

I get all flustered and panicky when I get a crush. All my normal ability to be direct without massive self doubt and second guessing goes right out the window. And I worry if I go my normal route (hey, do you find me at all attractive?) given that we weren't able to set up plans outside my house it will look... well, like coidzor put it. And I don't want the evening to end in unbearable awkward "I should be going now"-ness.

Hi there, are you me? :smalltongue:
The only advice I can give is that it's better to have taken a chance and maybe fail, instead of just angstily waiting in limbo so to speak :smallsmile:
For me however, being direct seems anathema to the girls I crush on (or I screw up something else).



I'm thinking I just might go back to that store in the weekend if I can. If that's not too much that is...
I actually do need to buy water jugs though, I just maybe don't have to travel to that city (I travel at no cost though) to buy them... :smallredface:
I could plan something with my friends there also.
What's the consensus here in the playground, is that too much? Am I just overanalyzing again and maybe that itself is too much? :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

Friggin' "server too busy" message. Lets try that again...

Games are a way of having fun. I love the delicious tentative first steps towards a relationship. I don't want to "be empowered to make a decision", I want to enjoy "accidental" hand-brushes in the dark and secret smiles. I don't like "will you go out with me?", I like a natural development of intimacy. Eventually there is a crunch-time where an official decision needs to be voiced, but I don't believe there's anything wrong with drawing out that exciting initial flirtation.
You have to finish a meal eventually, but that doesn't mean you can't savour it first.

edit: In this specific case... I still don't know that it's necessarily necessary to go all-in right now. Suss him out, for sure. If you manage to find out he does swing your way, swoot! But I would be inclined to just enjoy his company for now, and see how it goes instead of worrying about it. Honestly, I'm pretty much expecting a resolution during this maybe-date - and I expect a happy one*.

*Based on not very much at all. Not responsible for disappointments.

[DeadManSleeping]

Games *are* fun, but in this case he has a burning question.

Then he should see a doctor about that.

...

Yeah, that's all I've got.

[Bang!]

I'm not really a movie person. Is going out to the movies standard fare for two guys who don't know each other too well and who are just trying to platonically hang out? My first thought is that you're probably on the same page, but that your house would be a slightly awkward place to clear that up.

Easiest option: you could go someplace else to dance/play tennis/look at college art exhibits/whatever it is you do for fun, and apply moves generously to ginger-beard-guy there. :smalltongue:

[absolmorph]

Pretty easy tbh. Talk to him about it and explain that you're interested in him. THe "problem" you describe of maybe he's not into you isn't something that will be changed by not talking to him.

Oh and I never suggest "putting on the moves" or playing any silly game like that. The words, "Hey, I really think you're quite cute" have yet to fail me. Plus at the very worst it's a compliment.
Or, to put it in another way, apply this test:

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljn4o1k8gk1qbws9fo1_500.jpg

[ZombyWoof]

Friggin' "server too busy" message. Lets try that again...

Games are a way of having fun. I love the delicious tentative first steps towards a relationship. I don't want to "be empowered to make a decision", I want to enjoy "accidental" hand-brushes in the dark and secret smiles. I don't like "will you go out with me?", I like a natural development of intimacy. Eventually there is a crunch-time where an official decision needs to be voiced, but I don't believe there's anything wrong with drawing out that exciting initial flirtation.
You have to finish a meal eventually, but that doesn't mean you can't savour it first.

edit: In this specific case... I still don't know that it's necessarily necessary to go all-in right now. Suss him out, for sure. If you manage to find out he does swing your way, swoot! But I would be inclined to just enjoy his company for now, and see how it goes instead of worrying about it. Honestly, I'm pretty much expecting a resolution during this maybe-date - and I expect a happy one*.

*Based on not very much at all. Not responsible for disappointments.
I realized after I posted it that I was pointing it out in this specific case. I would ask him if he's batting for your team as it were.

Also I hate the tentative first steps. Games are for when you know you like each other, or at least have a strong suspicion. In this case they don't even know if thye're into the same gender.

[Serpentine]

Yeah, that's not a bad point. There are ways to find that particular stumbling block out without a "may I please jump your bones?", though.
It's all pretty much just personal preference, anyway. I won't ever tell someone they ought to do the sideways approach, I just want it known that it's a legitimate option that some people prefer.

[ZombyWoof]

It IS really fun now that I think about it. Harrowing, but it's fun to play around with it. Still it is fundamentally dishonest and hidden which is probably not how a relationship ought to start... hmmmm :smallconfused: THIS QUESTION CONFSES DA WOOF.

Also you don't need to start with "I want to jump your bones" but you can definitely start with "I think you're cute. What do you say to THAT?"

[golentan]

Well, we have been flirting for the past 2 months. I just... that means less than I thought it would. Everyone flirted with everyone in that group. Everyone. They made us sign a sexual harassment policy for legal reasons on the first day of rehearsal, and within 30 seconds of finishing reading us the policy the director who made us sign it had technically violated it with the lead actor. Who violated it right back at him.

I like flirting. I like those sorts of games. I just don't know that they're likely to help resolve this.

Bang!: Yeah, that was my thought. But see again how crushes make me begin with the wild second-guessing. I just... in the evening don't know where we could really go apart from the movies. We're kind of small town here.

[Serpentine]

That's fair enough. I still think you ought to sit back and enjoy most of this semi-date, though. Leave any D&Ms 'til near the end of it, unless you think it'll get in the way of your enjoyment, in which case get it out in the open early.

[Coidzor]

Other than blocking it from your feed, is there any way other than going through and unliking everything you've liked from a person to get them to stop filling up your facebook feed with their messages to and from their lover that basically amount to a constant stream of "I love you" at least every other day, usually more often?

I only really ask because it's been going on for a year now and I figured the messages would peter out by themselves, but...

And is being annoyed by this unusually petty or just regular baseline pettiness?

[ZombyWoof]

No it's perfectly normal. It's CUTE when a couple is all over each other for about a week. It's TOLERABLE for about a month.

[Coidzor]

No it's perfectly normal. It's CUTE when a couple is all over each other for about a week. It's TOLERABLE for about a month.

I don't really have a problem with the messages per se. They're easily enough glossed over when actually looking at her wall, but the constant filling up of my feed is just arghleblarghle. :smallannoyed:

[ZombyWoof]

You should be able to group them and then remove all items from that group from your feed. Make them "family" and set it to "don't show family in my feed."

[MountainKing]

Ok, so I got one...

Spoiler for length
So, I've been seeing this girl for the last couple months. And by seeing, I primarily mean sex. Its been pretty amazing, she's really everything one could hope for in a lover. Also, very attractive. She's also a REALLY cool chick. We get along, have similar tastes, get each other's humor, and have a great time enjoying each other's company in a non-bedroom (or living room, or bathroom, or car, or back porch, or...) setting. I can tell, especially in the last week or so, that she's really really REALLY falling for me. Hard. And how!

Sounds pretty awesome, right? Slight issue. I'm on the cusp of my 27th birthday, and she is 34 and has 2 kids (well, technically 3, one doesn't live with her due to adoption circumstances, longish story). I've hung out with her kids, and I really like the little blighters, and they like me (she tells me that they ask about me, whether I'll be coming over and spending the night). They are 8 and 5, boy and girl respectively.

I really like her. I really do. I feel so awesome around her, and she says she feels the same. I deeply care about her, and I feel like I could fall in love with her if I let myself. I'm just nervous about the seriousness of it all. I mean, kids are a huge responsibility, and I've pretty much decided I don't want to have any of my own. We've talked about things, and neither of us really want to give up our seperate residences and whatnot. She's been married once before, and doesn't really want to get actually married again (I don't want to get married either, so yay!), but I'm concerned what may happen if things get more serious.

I'm just worried about the impact of things if things get too serious. I mean, its not just me and her...there are the kids to think of. If I let them get too attached to me, they'll feel abandoned if we stop seeing each other. I don't know what to do. I don't want to stop seeing her, but am willing to back things off. Its wierd, but I do feel just a little detached from myself at this point.

I'm really enjoying life right now. I'm not dating anyone else, but would still consider myself to be relatively "single", and don't know if I'm ready to give that up to "be in a relationship". I dunno, it just seems so oppressive, but it seems to be where things are drifting. I feel kinda a gut feeling to both pull her tighter and push her away, and its so confusing. If it was just us, I guess I'd have be more inclined to move forward, but the kids are really freaking me the heck out, even with as awesome as they are...

So...yea...anyone want to care to take a stab at this?

I know it's late, but, if it helps at all Keld, I've been there.

My first in-person girlfriend was a single mom, but her daughter was only 2. Her name was Rose, and she was easily the brightest, most charming little girl that age I've met who wasn't one of two others. And when J and I broke up, for a while we stayed friends, and hung out, and Rose still had me around as a big male figure (I hesitate strongly to call myself an adult at that time), and then after J lied to me and brought it all crashing down on my head, well... I disappeared.

A month later, J happened to wander through the grocery store I worked at with Rose in tow. I had thought for sure that Rose would hate me, or have forgotten me, or something. She gave me the biggest, brightest smile I've ever seen before and yelled, "Hey! It's Josh!"

To be 100% honest, it completely broke my heart. An hour later, I was crying and leaning against a shelf of breakfast cereal, alone in a grocery store, with the sound of bloody oldies ringing in my ears while that adorable little child's smile and words haunted my mind.

*deeeeeeeeeep breath*

All that being said, while yes, that moment was in fact more painful than J and I breaking up, and her subsequently lying to me... I wouldn't go back and change a thing. For six months, I played father-figure (more like "closest crappy imitation available" figure) to that little girl; I even went to her birthday party with a gift.

It's not something I regret... It's just something that hurts to think about. There's a fine line, or something. I'll finish this post in a little bit. I need to get some fresh air.



Can I get someone to smack me upside the head next time I try to get with a guy? I'm just making terrible choices...

Happy to oblige. :smalltongue: I know there's already been a lot of development on this particular situation, so I'm just going to home in on this piece, because I don't think anyone else has covered it. "A past life full of regrets is not an empty life! My regrets are what have made me into who I am today!" Is it a bad decision? Sure, maybe. I honestly can't decide that for you... but as long as you learn from it, then at least to me, it's not so much a bad decision, as an experience you needed to have. Sure, there are exceptions to this, for those who want to get a little extreme with it, but hey. It's something to consider.

Oh yeah! *smack!*


Grrarr... [/SPOILER]

No no, you need more support. Growl from the diaphragm, you'll never scare anyone with that. Also, start wearing purple pants, preferably the kind that can get shredded around the shins yet inexplicably stay intact elsewhere.


If you're already contemplating breaking up with him then honestly the relationship is going down and there probably is little he or you can do to salvage it. Honestly, just let the guy down easy and leave it at that. You're already a step away from doing it...it's pretty much the point of no return.

I know I've said this before, but, you're a very up person. :smallfrown: And I mean that in the Wash-iest way possible.


The issue is that I think she's really falling for me hard. I feel kinda crappy not returning that in kind, and I grow fonder and fonder of her all the time. I know if I just let myself, I'll be head over heels for this girl in no time.

Have you considered polyamory? Is that a discussion you're comfortable with? Do you even need more people to talk about this with? I'm available if you need more help mate.


All right. And now, I'll stray into parano-land, please yank me out and slap me if you feel I am simply lost into my own imagination. The lady that I offended the other night? Well she connected on FB yesterday for the first time ever.

I don't really have any advice for you, but I suppose I can still provide what's requested. *yank, slap!*

You know, I've never understood people asking to get hit when they're doing things. All that's ever done is make me angry, and half the time that means I'm actually twice as likely to go through with something, just to prove that I'm right. :smallconfused:


Then he should see a doctor about that.

...you know, for somebody who claims I'm supposed to hate them, I think I love you. That might also just be me being contrary. There's a compliment in there somewhere. I'm terribly sorry.

[Keld Denar]

Have you considered polyamory? Is that a discussion you're comfortable with? Do you even need more people to talk about this with? I'm available if you need more help mate.

Well, we were talking last night, and she's pretty much stopped dating anyone else. She was finding herself hanging out with other guys wishing they were me. I haven't really been dating anyone else for the last couple months either. Either I don't have time, or I do have time and I fill that time with her. I still hang out with out group of friends when we have events, but I don't hang out with anyone else one-on-one.

Also, she told me her son told her that "He (me) can come over any time he wants. He's totally cool and was talking to me about engines and buildings and stuff". Apparently 8 year old boys love engineers...go figure.

I dunno. Everything about this is sliding on a slippery slope deeper and deeper into it. I like the way it feels, but I'm scared about the future and I don't really know what to do.

[Syka]

Getting into a new relationship is terrifying, especially if you didn't intend for it to happen and particularly when children are involved.

But here's my question for you: Do you want to be with her? Can you see yourself with her in a year or five? Other than her having kids and you previously not wanting them, are there any major compatibility issues with your life goals?

If the only real issue is the kids, then all you have to figure out is if you are OK being a father figure. Kids are resilient, and if you break up they will be fine. You might find that you really enjoy her children and want to be there for them and help them discover life, even though you have no biological urge of your own.


Keep in mind, though, if the kids are a deal breaker for you, you should break it off now before you get in deeper. It wouldn't make you a bad guy by any means, and as much as you want to be with her...if you can't come to terms with the kids, now would be the time to skidaddle.


To be completely honest...I would hesitate to get involved with someone- casually or otherwise- who has children. If something happened to my sister and BIL and they had kids, I'd take them in a heartbeat. If I got pregnant, I'd keep the child and love it to bits. But I would really have to evaluate romantic involvement with someone with kids because...at this stage...it's just not something I'd be "ready" for. It doesn't mean I won't, but it would take a bit, so I totally get where you are coming from.

[Malfunctioned]

Hey guys, long time no..message? I think that's the right term. Anyway, a small update from me.

So those who've been following my saga of the many lettered people may recall my brief dip into infidelity that lead to the break up of my first, and so far only, long term relationship. I recently attended a party hosted by the same person who hosted the last one and with, mostly, the same people as before. One major difference being the lack of L. So I asked a couple of friends who had been there previously, and who were close friends of L, if they knew what had gone on that night.

And now it turns out that I've an even bigger arse then I previously though. It turns out that I actually did sleep with her. I am a massive, MASSIVE ****. Especially since it this means I effectively spent a vast majority of my long-term relationship lying to my ex about it, albeit unknowingly.

GREAT.

In more recent news.... I've decided that the universe has understood several of my 'types' and is now testing me. Because I've now started talking to a friend of a friend who attends my college. Now I think it'll be a little easier to just post a small check-list instead of attempting to describe why she's my type.


Dyed hair Check.
Piercings Check.
Tattoos Check.
Short Check.
Geeky Interests To put it one way, she saw me and a friend playing a bit of Mutants and Masterminds, as well as Yu-Gi-Oh, the first things she said were "Wait, you read comics? Have you ever read The Boys?" and "Okay. You need to teach me how to play" respectively, I'm considering that, as well as the fact she's a cosplayer a check.
Attractive YES.
Agressive Check.
Dominant Check.
Sarcastic Check.
Blue Eyes Very much check.
Curvy See above.
Smart Check.
Awesome taste in music In as much as it's similar to mine. :smalltongue:
Sweet tooth Yup yup yup.


And considering we spent a good portion of today flirting and playfighting I think I may have a chance. Despite one of my friends noticing the playfighting and deciding to come and and commentate "Is he going in for a kiss?" :smalltongue:

So yeah. Either the universe has decided to give me another chance at this kind of girl or I'm very very very lucky.

[The Rose Dragon]

The most important question remains unanswered in your post.

Have you ever read The Boys?

[Malfunctioned]

The most important question remains unanswered in your post.

Have you ever read The Boys?

....What kind of Nerd-of-all-Trades do you take me for? :smalltongue:

And by that I mean yes. Yes I have.

[Lissou]

Well, we were talking last night, and she's pretty much stopped dating anyone else. She was finding herself hanging out with other guys wishing they were me. I haven't really been dating anyone else for the last couple months either. Either I don't have time, or I do have time and I fill that time with her.

Do you want to be exclusive? As in, as a rule? There is being "exclusive" de facto (having no other partners at the moment) and being exclusive because that's required, and they can feel different. Knowing you're allowed to fall in love with someone else, knowing your partner is allowed to fall in love with someone else, that can make the difference between a relationship you dread and a relationship you don't. (One way or the other, really, depending on the person).

I'm not saying that's the solution, as it's not something that works for everyone, but I can see where MountainKing is coming from. Do you think it would help you to know you don't have to be exclusive - even if you end up being so out of personal choice or circumstances? It might be one thing to consider.

[Coidzor]

And now it turns out that I've an even bigger arse then I previously though. It turns out that I actually did sleep with her. I am a massive, MASSIVE ****. Especially since it this means I effectively spent a vast majority of my long-term relationship lying to my ex about it, albeit unknowingly.

GREAT.

Well, there's a bit about how there's a time and there's a place to quit beating yourself up and instead learn from it and bury it.


And considering we spent a good portion of today flirting and playfighting I think I may have a chance. Despite one of my friends noticing the playfighting and deciding to come and and commentate "Is he going in for a kiss?" :smalltongue:

So yeah. Either the universe has decided to give me another chance at this kind of girl or I'm very very very lucky.

Or you're Malfunctioned and you routinely meet attractive women if your earlier reports are to be believed. :smalltongue:

[Malfunctioned]

Well, there's a bit about how there's a time and there's a place to quit beating yourself up and instead learn from it and bury it.
I've been trying to bury it, and definitely try and learn from it, but it just somehow continuously crops up again and again. Ah well, hopefully It won't this time.




Or you're Malfunctioned and you routinely meet attractive women if your earlier reports are to be believed. :smalltongue:
One of my friends has dubbed it the 'Hugh Grant' effect. It's the tendency for quirky, awkward and clumsy British guys to somehow attract women without having the confidence to 'Seal the Deal' as it were. Which often leads to me bumbling about it.

[Coidzor]

I've been trying to bury it, and definitely try and learn from it, but it just somehow continuously crops up again and again. Ah well, hopefully It won't this time.

What? It already has because you started freaking out and beating yourself up over it. :smallconfused:


One of my friends has dubbed it the 'Hugh Grant' effect. It's the tendency for quirky, awkward and clumsy British guys to somehow attract women without having the confidence to 'Seal the Deal' as it were. Which often leads to me bumbling about it.

Yeah, I don't get why you haven't learned to just ask 'em out yet when they're obviously into you and giving you signs they want to **** your brains out. I mean, you're Jewish for one thing... :smallconfused:

[MountainKing]

Hey guys, long time no..message? I think that's the right term. Anyway, a small update from me.

So those who've been following my saga of the many lettered people may recall my brief dip into infidelity that lead to the break up of my first, and so far only, long term relationship. I recently attended a party hosted by the same person who hosted the last one and with, mostly, the same people as before. One major difference being the lack of L. So I asked a couple of friends who had been there previously, and who were close friends of L, if they knew what had gone on that night.

And now it turns out that I've an even bigger arse then I previously though. It turns out that I actually did sleep with her. I am a massive, MASSIVE ****. Especially since it this means I effectively spent a vast majority of my long-term relationship lying to my ex about it, albeit unknowingly.

GREAT.

In more recent news.... I've decided that the universe has understood several of my 'types' and is now testing me. Because I've now started talking to a friend of a friend who attends my college. Now I think it'll be a little easier to just post a small check-list instead of attempting to describe why she's my type.


Dyed hair Check.
Piercings Check.
Tattoos Check.
Short Check.
Geeky Interests To put it one way, she saw me and a friend playing a bit of Mutants and Masterminds, as well as Yu-Gi-Oh, the first things she said were "Wait, you read comics? Have you ever read The Boys?" and "Okay. You need to teach me how to play" respectively, I'm considering that, as well as the fact she's a cosplayer a check.
Attractive YES.
Agressive Check.
Dominant Check.
Sarcastic Check.
Blue Eyes Very much check.
Curvy See above.
Smart Check.
Awesome taste in music In as much as it's similar to mine. :smalltongue:
Sweet tooth Yup yup yup.


And considering we spent a good portion of today flirting and playfighting I think I may have a chance. Despite one of my friends noticing the playfighting and deciding to come and and commentate "Is he going in for a kiss?" :smalltongue:

So yeah. Either the universe has decided to give me another chance at this kind of girl or I'm very very very lucky.

OH MY GOD MAL! IS YOU!

*slap!*

I was just thinking about you yesterday, wondering what had happened to you. The slap is for beating yourself up over the past. It's called "the past" for a reason, Mal. It's meant to be learned from and remembered, but don't beat yourself up over it. You're a great dude, even if you've made mistakes, and you really need to buck up.

...and srsly, if you flub it with this latest girl you've described, I'mma slap you again. She basically sounds exactly like what you want. GO GET HER! :smallsmile:

@ Keld - I was going to say something, but Syka already said it. :/ I think she did a much better job of it too, so, I'll leave it at that.

[Gaius Marius]

OH MY GOD MAL! IS YOU!

*slap!*

I was just thinking about you yesterday, wondering what had happened to you. The slap is for beating yourself up over the past. It's called "the past" for a reason, Mal. It's meant to be learned from and remembered, but don't beat yourself up over it. You're a great dude, even if you've made mistakes, and you really need to buck up.

...and srsly, if you flub it with this latest girl you've described, I'mma slap you again. She basically sounds exactly like what you want. GO GET HER! :smallsmile:

@ Keld - I was going to say something, but Syka already said it. :/ I think she did a much better job of it too, so, I'll leave it at that.

I know it's not the time, nor the place.

But I am in love with your avatar.

[Malfunctioned]

What? It already has because you started freaking out and beating yourself up over it. :smallconfused: I didn't mean that part specifically, I meant about the whole cheating thing in general.




Yeah, I don't get why you haven't learned to just ask 'em out yet when they're obviously into you and giving you signs they want to **** your brains out. I mean, you're Jewish for one thing... :smallconfused:
I have absolutely no idea, I'm perfectly confident about everything else, it's just when it comes to actually telling the girl that I'm interested that I suddenly lose all confidence whatsoever. I really need to work on that.


OH MY GOD MAL! IS YOU!

*slap!*

I was just thinking about you yesterday, wondering what had happened to you. The slap is for beating yourself up over the past. It's called "the past" for a reason, Mal. It's meant to be learned from and remembered, but don't beat yourself up over it. You're a great dude, even if you've made mistakes, and you really need to buck up.

...and srsly, if you flub it with this latest girl you've described, I'mma slap you again. She basically sounds exactly like what you want. GO GET HER! :smallsmile:

I really did deserve that slap. :smalltongue: And thanks MK, I will be trying. :smallbiggrin:

Heh, I'm still not convinced that she's actually into me, with good reason this time, of course several other friends have told me that she's hard to get a read on. Of course I've still been flirting with over the course of the day and we ended up getting a train together. Though that did lead to a kinda odd conversation.


Her: "Y'know what? A lot of people have told me that I look like your ex."
Me: *I look at her and realise it* "Yeah..you do...a lot."
Her: "That would probably explain a bit. But I'm guessing my personality is nothing like her, I mean I'm a bitch."
Me: *nervously laughing* "....Erm...about that..."

So yeah. I think even my type is noticing that I have a type..... :smalltongue:

[DeadManSleeping]

Yeah, I don't get why you haven't learned to just ask 'em out yet when they're obviously into you and giving you signs they want to **** your brains out. I mean, you're Jewish for one thing... :smallconfused:

I can't imagine what being Jewish has to do with this. Jewish culture, if anything DIScourages having the gumption to go up and get the girl yourself. You're better off asking an old lady of prominent social standing to convince her family that you're a good match. Or getting your friend to talk you up to her. Seriously, those are much more prominent in any talks of Jewish culture and romance than anything, in my experience.

DMSclaimer: This is not pertaining to the Jewish religion. Because of board rules, I will not make any comment on how the Jewish religion relates to dating practices, even though I've got a few zingers (you learn all the good ones if you grow up Jewish, after all).

[Malfunctioned]

I can't imagine what being Jewish has to do with this. Jewish culture, if anything DIScourages having the gumption to go up and get the girl yourself. You're better off asking an old lady of prominent social standing to convince her family that you're a good match. Or getting your friend to talk you up to her. Seriously, those are much more prominent in any talks of Jewish culture and romance than anything, in my experience.

DMSclaimer: This is not pertaining to the Jewish religion. Because of board rules, I will not make any comment on how the Jewish religion relates to dating practices, even though I've got a few zingers (you learn all the good ones if you grow up Jewish, after all).

Considering my family is modern orthodox, me being the exception, I'm going to have to agree with this. And the fact that I'm a Shiksa hunter kinda doesn't help to much in that regard....

[MountainKing]

I really did deserve that slap. :smalltongue: And thanks MK, I will be trying. :smallbiggrin:

*snip*

So yeah. I think even my type is noticing that I have a type..... :smalltongue:

I thought about giving you another for leaving us all cold and Mal-less for so long, but I didn't want to over-do it. You're our resident incarnation of accidental harem shows, what would we do without you?!

Also; they're on to you. Quick, hide! ...somewhere with an internet connection.

@Gaius - Thanks! I'm in love with it too. :smallbiggrin:

[Malfunctioned]

I thought about giving you another for leaving us all cold and Mal-less for so long, but I didn't want to over-do it. You're our resident incarnation of accidental harem shows, what would we do without you?!

Also; they're on to you. Quick, hide! ...somewhere with an internet connection.



I'll make sure it won't happen again! :smalltongue: I guess I had to be the incarnation of something. It's just my luck that the something happens to be the one thing that'll drag out my relationshipless state to the extreme. :smalltongue:

Well if it means even more of that kind of girls will be appearing I will be in no way wanting to hide.

And just so you guys know, I have been in no way, shape or form been dragging one of my friends up to Covent Garden in the centre of London every single weekend in hopes of spotting Train Girl again. Nope. There is no way I would ever do that. Not a chance. At all.

Ahem.

[MountainKing]

And just so you guys know, I have been in no way, shape or form been dragging one of my friends up to Covent Garden in the centre of London every single weekend in hopes of spotting Train Girl again. Nope. There is no way I would ever do that. Not a chance. At all.

Ahem.

As a formality, that's creepy dude. On a personal level, attaboy! *highfive!*

[Malfunctioned]

As a formality, that's creepy dude. On a personal level, attaboy! *highfive!*

Well I also go there to visit comic shops, get food and generally wander about, but spotting her is somewhat of a hope every time. :smalltongue:

[Syka]

Mal, if I make a detour to London this summer, I'll try to give you an excuse, lol. :)


My turn to ask advice: Has anyone been in an LTR in which you live together, but one partner has to be absent for a length of time for business purposes?

Having done an LDR, and not wanting to again, Oz and I have decided we want to implement a "no more than 3 weeks without physically being in each others presence" clause. Doesn't matter if it's a week or 3 hours we're together, no absence longer than 3 weeks with no physical contact.

The optimist in me is all "Yeah, that can work!" but the realist likes to pipe up that it might not be possible... I know later on in our careers, when we are established and have a good bit of disposable income it won't be an issue. My main concern is the immediate future (<5 years) wherein one of us might have to travel and not be able to pull those sorts of strings...

Mostly I'm wondering what people think about the feasibility of such a plan.

[ZombyWoof]

I think that's a very reasonable plan and you don't need to be worried about it. Implicit in it, I believe, is the idea that if you break because he has to spend 6 months in India, you two will probably get back together when he comes home.

Think about it this way: if after 6 months of significantly less contact with him you get the space to realize that he's *not* everything you thought he was and you're much less inclined to date him, don't you think it's a good thing you found that out? So either you find out that you weren't as into him as you thought you were or the opposite: you find out that you WERE as into him as you thought you were and the two of you jump back together as soon as you end up close.

To me that sounds pretty win-win. Just because most of the time when people say "We should take a break" it's really "We should see if it's time to break up because I think it is" doesn't mean that EVERY time that's what it means. I think in this case it would pretty clearly mean, "I care about you but don't want to pine after you for six months and park myself just because you can't be here for me. So let's agree to put this relationship in the refrigerator for a few months and pop it back out when you get home, ok?"

I like that idea.

[Syka]

Oh no, I don't mean taking a break if a longer period of time is necessary. That is not even an option. >>

It's more that we will do everything in our power to not be apart longer than 3 weeks. It's an attempt to keep from ending up in a position where one of us is gone more often than not for long stretches. We CAN, but it's not the optimal situation and won't happen unless it's a darn good reason.

This was discovered during our LDR time, that 3 weeks was the max for us to be apart without it really taking a toll.

[ZombyWoof]

Oh well that just seems like the rule on the front page, "Spend at least some time a week together" just extended and expanded for the needs of not buying a plane ticket across the world every week.

That's beyond fine :smallwink:

[Starbuck_II]

I have absolutely no idea, I'm perfectly confident about everything else, it's just when it comes to actually telling the girl that I'm interested that I suddenly lose all confidence whatsoever. I really need to work on that.



Have you tried practicing?
Have someone stand in for the girl and do it a few times? It might work.

[ZombyWoof]

There's a curve to nervousness I find when asking a woman out. Basically you have to be nervous enough that she feels pretty, special, and amazing, but confident enough that you don't seem like a total idiot.

[DeadManSleeping]

Woey rant, not related to romance, but to relationships.

Today (or maybe it was yesterday, or two days ago, or all of those), as with many days, I was with my theater group/friends hanging out as we do most days of the week. We do so in smaller subgroups that intersect a lot, so usually most people won't be present at any given gathering. And, as is often the case, at some point somebody not present got brought up, and people started saying stuff about them that they didn't like. And, as usual, I just sat there quietly waiting for the topic to change.

I know it's a human paradigm. It's not like talking about someone behind their back makes you unusual in any way. Heck, on the bus back home today I heard some people saying nasty things about their friends. But that just makes me feel worse. This thing that I find so distasteful is so incredibly pervasive. It just leads me to ask questions that can't possibly have good answers.

If this is normal, do I do it and not know it? Or do I not do it and that distances me from everyone else? Do I avoid doing it because I think I'm better than everyone?

And since I know my friends have said stuff about anyone who wasn't there at the time...

What do they say about me when I'm not around?

I've worked hard over the past few years to stop being unbearable. Sometimes I hear that I've made progress. Sometimes encouraging things happen, and it seems like people really do like me. But when I hear this happening, people saying how they dislike people that they act perfectly happy to...I just feel alone. All this gets thrown about people who I think are in good standing, who are in good standing with me. How can my situation be anything but awful? I've struggled to have friends, to have people who like seeing me outside of when they have to even on the rare occasion. If these others who have friends aplenty can't manage to please people...then what am I?

I know that this feeling of self-loathing and sadness is just due to my body chemistry going into a stressed/depressed cycle, but that doesn't make my thoughts any less accurate. Just more to the front of my mind.

Suckage.

[rayne_dragon]

Woey rant, not related to romance, but to relationships.

Today (or maybe it was yesterday, or two days ago, or all of those), as with many days, I was with my theater group/friends hanging out as we do most days of the week. We do so in smaller subgroups that intersect a lot, so usually most people won't be present at any given gathering. And, as is often the case, at some point somebody not present got brought up, and people started saying stuff about them that they didn't like. And, as usual, I just sat there quietly waiting for the topic to change.

I know it's a human paradigm. It's not like talking about someone behind their back makes you unusual in any way. Heck, on the bus back home today I heard some people saying nasty things about their friends. But that just makes me feel worse. This thing that I find so distasteful is so incredibly pervasive. It just leads me to ask questions that can't possibly have good answers.

If this is normal, do I do it and not know it? Or do I not do it and that distances me from everyone else? Do I avoid doing it because I think I'm better than everyone?

And since I know my friends have said stuff about anyone who wasn't there at the time...

What do they say about me when I'm not around?

I've worked hard over the past few years to stop being unbearable. Sometimes I hear that I've made progress. Sometimes encouraging things happen, and it seems like people really do like me. But when I hear this happening, people saying how they dislike people that they act perfectly happy to...I just feel alone. All this gets thrown about people who I think are in good standing, who are in good standing with me. How can my situation be anything but awful? I've struggled to have friends, to have people who like seeing me outside of when they have to even on the rare occasion. If these others who have friends aplenty can't manage to please people...then what am I?

I know that this feeling of self-loathing and sadness is just due to my body chemistry going into a stressed/depressed cycle, but that doesn't make my thoughts any less accurate. Just more to the front of my mind.

Suckage.


Yeah, talking about people behind their back sucks. I don't approve of it, but then I go ahead and do it anyways, although I try not to be malicious (and stick to things that are good/neutral - but I don't always succeed).

The thing is, you can't know what people are saying about you when you're not there unless you somehow manage to overhear them. It's better not to think about it and be your own person regardless of what other people might say behind your back.

[Starbuck_II]

Woey rant, not related to romance, but to relationships.

Today (or maybe it was yesterday, or two days ago, or all of those), as with many days, I was with my theater group/friends hanging out as we do most days of the week. We do so in smaller subgroups that intersect a lot, so usually most people won't be present at any given gathering. And, as is often the case, at some point somebody not present got brought up, and people started saying stuff about them that they didn't like. And, as usual, I just sat there quietly waiting for the topic to change.

I know it's a human paradigm. It's not like talking about someone behind their back makes you unusual in any way. Heck, on the bus back home today I heard some people saying nasty things about their friends. But that just makes me feel worse. This thing that I find so distasteful is so incredibly pervasive. It just leads me to ask questions that can't possibly have good answers.

If this is normal, do I do it and not know it? Or do I not do it and that distances me from everyone else? Do I avoid doing it because I think I'm better than everyone?

And since I know my friends have said stuff about anyone who wasn't there at the time...

What do they say about me when I'm not around?

I've worked hard over the past few years to stop being unbearable. Sometimes I hear that I've made progress. Sometimes encouraging things happen, and it seems like people really do like me. But when I hear this happening, people saying how they dislike people that they act perfectly happy to...I just feel alone. All this gets thrown about people who I think are in good standing, who are in good standing with me. How can my situation be anything but awful? I've struggled to have friends, to have people who like seeing me outside of when they have to even on the rare occasion. If these others who have friends aplenty can't manage to please people...then what am I?

I know that this feeling of self-loathing and sadness is just due to my body chemistry going into a stressed/depressed cycle, but that doesn't make my thoughts any less accurate. Just more to the front of my mind.

Suckage.

Well, I don't do it much. But I'm used to being an individual and a loner.
I'm not much for following the crowd.

It seems to me that doing this back talk is cowardly as you aren't brave enough to bring it to their faces.

Look, even if they do this talk: it doesn't mean they don't like the person they are just over empathsizing their faults to make conversation.
I'm sure they don't think badly of you.

[Coidzor]

I can't imagine what being Jewish has to do with this.

Well if you'll notice what he was talking about was how he had this British mannerism that's associated with posh ethnic Normans (unless they're now just called English like everyone else down below Hadrian's Wall) despite being Jewish and raised with Jewish culture as an active thing in his life. Thus it would seem, on the surface, slightly odd.


I didn't mean that part specifically, I meant about the whole cheating thing in general.

Don't get that drunk around loose women while you're in a committed relationship. BAM! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTeTiNBnqfE&feature=related)

[Vella_Malachite]

Woey rant, not related to romance, but to relationships.

Today (or maybe it was yesterday, or two days ago, or all of those), as with many days, I was with my theater group/friends hanging out as we do most days of the week. We do so in smaller subgroups that intersect a lot, so usually most people won't be present at any given gathering. And, as is often the case, at some point somebody not present got brought up, and people started saying stuff about them that they didn't like. And, as usual, I just sat there quietly waiting for the topic to change.

I know it's a human paradigm. It's not like talking about someone behind their back makes you unusual in any way. Heck, on the bus back home today I heard some people saying nasty things about their friends. But that just makes me feel worse. This thing that I find so distasteful is so incredibly pervasive. It just leads me to ask questions that can't possibly have good answers.

If this is normal, do I do it and not know it? Or do I not do it and that distances me from everyone else? Do I avoid doing it because I think I'm better than everyone?

And since I know my friends have said stuff about anyone who wasn't there at the time...

What do they say about me when I'm not around?

I've worked hard over the past few years to stop being unbearable. Sometimes I hear that I've made progress. Sometimes encouraging things happen, and it seems like people really do like me. But when I hear this happening, people saying how they dislike people that they act perfectly happy to...I just feel alone. All this gets thrown about people who I think are in good standing, who are in good standing with me. How can my situation be anything but awful? I've struggled to have friends, to have people who like seeing me outside of when they have to even on the rare occasion. If these others who have friends aplenty can't manage to please people...then what am I?

I know that this feeling of self-loathing and sadness is just due to my body chemistry going into a stressed/depressed cycle, but that doesn't make my thoughts any less accurate. Just more to the front of my mind.

Suckage.

Yeah, I get what you're talking about. I will rarely join a conversation in which someone is being talked about badly behind their back. It just seems wrong to me.

Although, I'm not quite as pure as I make myself out to be; I can and will happily complain about someone who annoys me to a friend, and explain what annoyed me and why. What I won't do is talk about people doing things that have no effect on me whatsoever.

Aaaaand update time. Because I know I'm about ready to strangle a pillow.

So, after the talk and subsequent confusion last time I was here, I saw him again for nearly an entire day - I was in the library he hangs out in in the morning, and we went to our society meeting, and then he walked me home, after we hung around for ages after most people left (except one other guy). I had a great day. The issues didn't come up. Even the incessant compliments didn't seem so bad. I was thinking, maybe he's gotten the message! I can be happy!

And then, today, I saw him again in the library, and it was still fine. We had a pretty good time, all in all.
He asked if I was doing anything this evening, which I was at the time; I was going out with friends. I said so, and he asked if he could see me beforehand. No, I said, but after my tute, I'd be back in the library, where I'd stay until I went out for dinner. This was fine, but he got held up and couldn't make it. Oh, well, I thought - no biggie. I'll talk to him tomorrow.

Then, he calls this evening. 'Bout ten minutes ago; quarter to nine. I nearly didn't answer the phone. I just didn't want to speak to him at that moment. This is before he said anything, btw. So, I answer. He asks if he can see me before I go out. I say the night out got cancelled (because it did), but that I was busy doing other stuff. He asked if we could catch up at all this evening. I said no, sorry, I was busy. I felt bad about turning him down, so I asked if we could do the Code Geass marathon we'd been planning tomorrow evening. But, halfway through planning it, I don't want to be doing this, so I apologised, asked him if I could call tomorrow morning because I was in the middle of something and hung up.

What precipitated that reaction? I was fine earlier today! I actually felt physically sick when I hung up, both from guilt about not wanting to talk to him, and the severe "I don't want to talk to you" feeling. This relationship's just started to go up and down so much; sometimes it's OK and I really look forward to seeing him, sometimes I don't even want to hear his voice. I vow that I'll break up with him, but then I couldn't stand to do that to him. I honestly feel like my brain is messing with my head; like I've got two "me"s battling it out like my mind's the set of a bad sci-fi film.

Augh, longest vent ever. Just had to put that out there. Whatever happens, I can't break up with him for a little while, because I need the library for a couple of projects, and if I break up with him, there's no way I'll be able to go in there without creating awkwardness.

[term1nally s1ck]

Vella. Stop worrying, and just look at what is happening.

Is this relationship worth the stress and angst. Can you honestly look at it and say 'yeah, this is a good thing for me'.

If you can't, it might be time to move on.

[ZombyWoof]

That sounds like an ended relationship to me. It's... just waiting for the people to catch up =/

[Glass Mouse]

Woey rant, not related to romance, but to relationships.

Today (or maybe it was yesterday, or two days ago, or all of those), as with many days, I was with my theater group/friends hanging out as we do most days of the week. We do so in smaller subgroups that intersect a lot, so usually most people won't be present at any given gathering. And, as is often the case, at some point somebody not present got brought up, and people started saying stuff about them that they didn't like. And, as usual, I just sat there quietly waiting for the topic to change.

I know it's a human paradigm. It's not like talking about someone behind their back makes you unusual in any way. Heck, on the bus back home today I heard some people saying nasty things about their friends. But that just makes me feel worse. This thing that I find so distasteful is so incredibly pervasive. It just leads me to ask questions that can't possibly have good answers.

If this is normal, do I do it and not know it? Or do I not do it and that distances me from everyone else? Do I avoid doing it because I think I'm better than everyone?

And since I know my friends have said stuff about anyone who wasn't there at the time...

What do they say about me when I'm not around?

I've worked hard over the past few years to stop being unbearable. Sometimes I hear that I've made progress. Sometimes encouraging things happen, and it seems like people really do like me. But when I hear this happening, people saying how they dislike people that they act perfectly happy to...I just feel alone. All this gets thrown about people who I think are in good standing, who are in good standing with me. How can my situation be anything but awful? I've struggled to have friends, to have people who like seeing me outside of when they have to even on the rare occasion. If these others who have friends aplenty can't manage to please people...then what am I?

I know that this feeling of self-loathing and sadness is just due to my body chemistry going into a stressed/depressed cycle, but that doesn't make my thoughts any less accurate. Just more to the front of my mind.

Suckage.

Maybe I'm just privileged or something, but I don't want friends that do that, and as a result - I just don't have them. I really, really, REALLY don't wanna be second-guessing every possible sincerity in my friends.
So my first thought, honestly, was: DMS, find new friends!

Of course I know it's not that simple. Sigh. People are stupid and insecure, and the best you can do is not encourage them.

[ZombyWoof]

To chime in on the opposite side here, complaining about people is a coping mechanism. Sometimes your friends do annoying things that aren't annoying enough to ask them to change, but are just a little too annoying to grin and bear. For example, we hate one of my friend's girlfriends. But we really like our friend and he really likes her, so we refrain from complaining about her when she or he are around out of respect.

At the same time if we tried to keep it all bottled up... well bottling up your feelings is completely unhealthy. And who is better to complain to than your friends, the people who actually know you? With your friends it's a lot more likely to be accepted as it is: vacuous complaining meant to vent your frustration rather than anything else. That is, at least, how it works with my friends :smallwink:

Basically the sum of my thoughts on the matter are: it's a bad idea to tell someone they should just keep things that frustrate them about their friends bottled up, and my friend doesn't really need to hear me say how much his girlfriend annoys me.

[Glass Mouse]

Good points.

I just have a pretty strong gut reaction to back-talking friends. When it comes to acquiantances (like friends' genderfriends), I can't really demand anything, but if friends have a problem with me, I expect them to tell me. If they can't, then why are they my friends?

Personally, I try to operate on "complain only if it's constructive" - such as helping myself understand the situation and learn to cope (either by figuring out how to bring it up or by letting it go). And if so, I only complain to close friends on a one-on-one basis.
Dunno if that's any better, actually. The line is pretty blurry.

[ZombyWoof]

I think it's also better to know sometimes that what you're annoyed by is something you just need to complain about and let go, not that it's something you want to change. Like, it annoyed the heck out of me that one of my friends couldn't call raid 30 minutes early to join a huge group of us going out to dinner. but it's not like it's something that he needs to change, just something that was "Ugh really? I mean a whole bunch of us were going out." And we mentioned it when we were out at the dinner, and made a little fun of him. Sure it was behind his back, but it was incidentally behind his back.

Personally I find that the difference is between whether you're trying to generate animosity towards the person. Some people really do play that influence game of belittling behind someone's back for power and prestige, and that's pretty gross. Like everything, intent is a fundamentally key component :smallwink:

But I can't just say that every time someone comments about me "behind my back" it's a bad thing. What if it's, "ZombyWoof is doing X which is really annoying and I'm not sure how to approach him about it?" What if they're talking about it "behind my back" to figure out whether they need to approach me about it or even how to approach me about it?

Oh, and just because you have complaints about someone doesn't mean they don't please you. I bet you any of the folks in a long-term relationship could list off 3-4 things about their genderfriends that bug them. I bet you they could even list 3-4 things that bug them, but they don't ever bring it up because it's really minor and something they can deal with! Don't worry so much about whether you have negative aspects to your personality: we all do. Humans are imperfect. Friends aren't the people you want to be around and with every minute of every day, friends are the people who you have more positive interactions with than negative.

I know I'm annoying to be around, I talk too much and I'm an arrogant bastard. But I still have friends who invite me to things and want to hang out with me despite my flaws. I'm sure they complain about me behind my back and it doesn't bother me, because what it means is they like me enough to tolerate my foibles. For me at least, that's enough.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Have a date-ish sorta thing tomorrow.

We like each other, and we want to figure out what we're going to do about it.

Trick is, figuring out what sort of venue works best for that sort of thing. I think, from what I've read here previously, a meal is a little awkward for that sort of conversation. Other options include a park, a bridge, and a wasteland.

Any other ideas?

[DeadManSleeping]

If I wanted to have friends that didn't talk about people behind their backs, I would need to invent artificial sentience, and condition it so that it loved me and talked to nobody but me. And, pardon me if I'm out of bounds here, but that sounds positively insane.

Humans are the way they are. I've come to terms with that. It just gets me down once in a while.

[ZombyWoof]

Have a date-ish sorta thing tomorrow.

We like each other, and we want to figure out what we're going to do about it.

Trick is, figuring out what sort of venue works best for that sort of thing. I think, from what I've read here previously, a meal is a little awkward for that sort of conversation. Other options include a park, a bridge, and a wasteland.

Any other ideas?
Go to a meal and get some ice cream afterwords. Take a walk. Kiss.

[MountainKing]

If I wanted to have friends that didn't talk about people behind their backs, I would need to invent artificial sentience, and condition it so that it loved me and talked to nobody but me. And, pardon me if I'm out of bounds here, but that sounds positively insane.

Humans are the way they are. I've come to terms with that. It just gets me down once in a while.

Like ZombyWoof said though, there is the distinction of intent. I guess, that's up for you to decide, whether or not your friends are playing political mindgames. Sometimes, it really is just pointless venting, and it doesn't even have to be because what you're complaining about is actually what's wrong. Things pile up quick sometimes, and when you reach your breaking point, suddenly everything is something worth being frustrated about.

In the event that your friends really ARE just playing BS little power games within the larger group of friends, I would have to side with Mouse on this one, but I really do think ZombyWoof's words have a lot of merit.

[ZombyWoof]

I'm biased because my friends don't play those political games :smalltongue:

[Zeb The Troll]

My turn to ask advice: Has anyone been in an LTR in which you live together, but one partner has to be absent for a length of time for business purposes?

Having done an LDR, and not wanting to again, Oz and I have decided we want to implement a "no more than 3 weeks without physically being in each others presence" clause. Doesn't matter if it's a week or 3 hours we're together, no absence longer than 3 weeks with no physical contact.

The optimist in me is all "Yeah, that can work!" but the realist likes to pipe up that it might not be possible... I know later on in our careers, when we are established and have a good bit of disposable income it won't be an issue. My main concern is the immediate future (<5 years) wherein one of us might have to travel and not be able to pull those sorts of strings...

Mostly I'm wondering what people think about the feasibility of such a plan.I've done it before. At the time, my girl and I were both in the military and occasionally one of us would have to be deployed for some exercise or training or conference somewhere. Often it would be for weeks at a time, on occasion, months. It can be rough, sometimes, sure. Here's the thing, though. You guys, more than the majority of couples I'm aware of, have a very strong and trusting relationship. You won't be out of touch, just separated by distance. (If I'm not mistaken, this is something that was missing in your previous LDR. Something to consider in your worrying.)

Regarding disposable income and being able to travel in order to be together for a time, it might not be as hard as you think to be able to pull this off. If you know that this is a possibility, or even a probability, setup a travel savings account. Set aside some reasaonable amount, like $25 or $50, every paycheck until it reaches a balance that you feel comfortable will cover your expenses for a weekender together (or two, or three, or however many you think you might need to plan for). Then, when the travel does happen, you'll be able to plan your trip near enough to the three weeks in advance to get the good flight rates, and this, in turn, will give you two a time to look forward to when one of you has to be away.

Alarra and I have a travel fund set aside that lets us do things like hit GenCon every year as well as be able to attend a fellow Playgrounder's wedding when it comes up.

Alarra would like to add that, unlike many LDR's, what you're describing has a foreseeable end date and that makes it much easier to deal with than something indefinite ("we'll be together someday...").

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Go to a meal and get some ice cream afterwords. Take a walk. Kiss.

See, I don't know how she'd take that last bit. She's never actually had a boyfriend before, and I'm pretty certain she's never kissed anyone.

[ZombyWoof]

You could always ask if it's ok for you to kiss her.

[DeadManSleeping]

See, I don't know how she'd take that last bit. She's never actually had a boyfriend before, and I'm pretty certain she's never kissed anyone.

I think that the saying "there's a first time for everything" applies here.

[Coidzor]

Gotta grow up sometime after all.

[DeadManSleeping]

Gotta grow up sometime after all.

Equating sexual experience with maturity is a dangerous road to go down, my friend.

[ZombyWoof]

I still think the "Can I kiss you now?" is a great way to do it.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Well, dinner seems likely. Probably someplace small in town, after we go rambling around for a bit (I'm a hiker, she's a runner, so taking the scenic route is a given.)

Ice cream probably not, since I don't know of a place in town that's open for that, and it's going to be in the 40-50 degree range tomorrow night.

As for the rest, we'll see.

[Ursus the Grim]

I still think the "Can I kiss you now?" is a great way to do it.

(We need a ninja smiley)

I've got to agree with this one. If she's willing to kiss, asking makes you sound like a gentlement and you don't have to worry as much as you go for it. If she isn't, at least you know before you make the mistake of going for it.