Support Relationship Woes and Advice 18: Finally Legal in Hollywood [Archive] - Page 6

Dallas-Dakota

2011-05-06, 12:38 PM

To be totally fair on that part, the average dutch female is also longer in height, around 5' 7'' or 5' 8'', I think this is the same proportional difference as anywhere else, no?

Also, if it is the height, it doesn't make any sense that older girls/women are interested, and thanks a bunch for taking the time to think about this one.

I know the feeling......From completely the other side.

I'm 5'2 and generally found ''cute''.:smallannoyed:

15 and lower : I have way too many of these chasing me.
16-18/20: You're cute...let's just be friends.
18/20>: *DODGE, that dude is looking way too young*
(and yep, generalising way too much)
For reference, I'l turn 18 in roughly a month or something.

Which is even more annoying, cause I'm also dutch, so yeah....
You wanna meet-up and give me some of your height?:smalltongue:

You know what, I want to go to a club/bar/festival sometime JUST to see the effect we'l have on people!:smallbiggrin:

On that note, remind me to send you a PM, we're most likely having a meet-up on the second weekend of August. I just need to find some time to organise something.

Lazy Genius

2011-05-06, 01:20 PM

Meet-up huh, as in, people from here, all Dutch (or from the area), coming to meet in person? Sounds pretty sweet.

Anyway, with that additional example, it kind of makes me feel that if I was tall (which I'm not, really, I swear! :smalleek:), that might be it, but I often find myself among a group of people and I'd be part of the shorter half. That reminds me, while I do sport a full-face beard, but I've been doing that on and off for over a year, even before I was seventeen and this started happening, and I get the same reaction nonetheless. So that surely can't be it. I think. The beard? doesn't reach 2cm before I decide to get rid of it again

So again, if I was actually tall I'd be happy to give you some of my height (if it was possible at all), but I'm not actually tall, just kind of average. In fact, I've just looked up what 1.80m is in feet and inches, and it's not actually six feet, it's 5' 11'' and even that's a stretch. I've just been told so many times I was six feet I've begun to believe them. :smallwink:

Sholos

2011-05-06, 01:53 PM

Ladies and gentleman, I has a date! As in, we are both aware of and looking forward to it as a date.

I's happy.

Jonesh

2011-05-06, 02:00 PM

Well, so I'm feeling pretty good since I had a great day at work so I'm gonna go and maybe send a text to that girl I gave my number to, just gonna say something in the vein of that her papers are sent and I hope she's doing something fun this weekend. Then I'll just see if I get a response and what it is.
That sounds good right?

But if it doesn't work I think I can find some other nice girls pretty easily, my eyes have really been opened how I can so easily flirt with people. I've actually given out my number quite a few times now, both to potential flirts and potential customers and at least one of them called me back. But I missed the call because I had it on silent and it was a hidden number :smalltongue:

...There's a new charming and cute girl on my work though. She's chatty and I like her "type", long black hair with blue eyes and a slim body. Gah, I shouldn't!

And I saw a stunning photo of my old crush in some of her finest clothes... I can't really describe how much I ache to hold her in my arms again :smallfrown:
Because I don't know what to do with her either :smallsigh:

EDIT: Way to go Sholos! Best of luck!

Tiger Duck

2011-05-06, 02:00 PM

Ladies and gentleman, I has a date! As in, we are both aware of and looking forward to it as a date.

I's happy.

That is a great feeling indeed.

Shademan

2011-05-06, 02:16 PM

Lazy Genius

2011-05-06, 03:59 PM

Congratulations on the date Scholos, also good luck to you Jonesh, keep fishing, I guess. :smallwink:

I thank you for your subtle praise of my beard, Shademan. I have been doing exactly what you advised, so I think that's what I'll keep doing only more subtly? Only trouble I run into is that you can only drive when you're 18 here in the Netherlands, so when the conversation goes in the direction of driving, I tend to be somewhat silent. Sometimes I make comments like 'my parents' Prius is silent like you don't know,' but it ends there, or goes deeper until I must admit I don't drive it yet. Though working on that.

So thanks all, I was secretly hoping to find a way to fix this together, but meh, I guess it's somewhat nice to look much older than you are, like no ID when purchasing alcohol, which is at 16+, but you need an ID until 20+, so I usually don't bother with ID, but it pretty much ends there. Hanging with guys older than me is a whole different kind of uncomfortable. They laugh and look surprised, then pat on the back and be all condescending after.

absolmorph

2011-05-06, 04:22 PM

They laugh and look surprised, then pat on the back and be all condescending after.
That's when you kick 'em in the balls and point out that if they weren't condescending, they might have been ready for it.

Lissou

2011-05-06, 04:45 PM

wait...so youre like 18 and can grow a beard?
...
nice.

My boyfriend could grow a full beard by the time he was 13. He was also 6'6".
On the plus side, he's 27 now and looks exactly the same as he looked at 20 (I can't say he looks exactly the same as he did when he was 13, but he hasn't aged a lot since then).

It could be something other than your height that makes you look older. Maybe your features, for instance. But maybe it's also that you have interests that are more common in people who are a bit older than you are?

And there is always the chance that younger females are intimidated because they're shy, and then it fades as they're older and more confident. And they just don't realise your age. Seriously, I'm 26 right now, a friend of mine turned 21 recently and that's when I realised we weren't the same age. And I had known him for almost a year. Passed a certain point you just don't really make a difference as much.

Advice I would give you... Well, I don't know. Do you want to meet younger females? Maybe you're at a point in you life when you don't have than much in common with other people your age. If you do have things in common, emphasize these, talk about them, wear them as a shirt, go to events that they go to, etc.

If you're fine with older women being interested in you, but you want them to stop looking at just your age... It's a bit harder. Maybe you can tell them that you're know you're a bit younger than they are, but you think it's worth giving it a shot before deciding it wouldn't work? The difficulty is in not making it sound like you think they're too old, but at the same time making it clear you understand they have doubts because of your age.

Otherwise... You might have to wait until you turn over 20 and you're in the same group as the women who like you. I realise that option sucks because it means you have to wait, but when you do reach that age you should be fine, right? Problem solved and all of that. In the meantime you can try and develop friendships with people and see what comes of it?

Lazy Genius

2011-05-06, 05:01 PM

Besides acting like I'm older, I also feel like I'm a lot older than my peers, I don't quite feel at home among them, as you say this may be the most troublesome.

I'm actually more than fine with older women being interested in me, as they're the only ones I'm interested in as well, the younger ones simply don't cut the chase. I would love them looking past my age, and at first, when they don't know it, they don't even look at my age, and all is well. Only thing is I don't know how to make clear to them that age is just a number and that I don't care about it whatsoever. (besides, women tend to live longer statistically, so they'd want a younger man, right. :smallamused:)

Waiting until I'm 20 was originally my plan, but that didn't work out very well at age 17, now that I turned 18 two weeks ago, I have more confidence in my feigning I'm older long enough to get them to realize age doesn't matter much. At least, I hope I'm better at it.

Also, it was never about who had the best beard, I just thought of mentioning it. :smallredface:

Lissou

2011-05-06, 05:28 PM

Also, it was never about who had the best beard, I just thought of mentioning it. :smallredface:

It's certainly not a contest, but around your age you have the guys who can't grow a beard yet on one side and those who can on the other. And those who can seem much older when you put them side by side. So it was good to mention it.

I wasn't trying to one-up people about my boyfriend, just to say it's possible to grow a beard pretty early on. I've also known adult guys who could never grow a full beard. Actually when I met my first husband (he was 28), he couldn't grow a full beard and he thought he never would. Then he actually did when he was 30 or so.

But while having a beard or not isn't a perfect indicator of how old you are, people still tend to judge from this among other signs (nobody would have thought my first husband was younger than his age because he did look 28, just, you know, shaved).

Coidzor

2011-05-06, 08:48 PM

I've only just now barely started to have the connector lines between my mustache and my beard so that I can have any kind of bad goatee and I'm 22.

Was thinking there was something to the rumor there was a bit of Cherokee somewhere back in the day in the family tree for a while there.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-06, 09:57 PM

I have plenty of facial hair and plenty of cherokee in MY blood :smallwink:\

EDIT: I want to go next door and knock on her door and ask if she wants to come out tonight. When she says she's busy I'm going to ask to make plans for when she's not busy.

Sholos

2011-05-07, 07:18 AM

@Lazy Genius: How does age get brought up? Do they flat out ask you, or do you tell them? I'd suggest just not mentioning it unless it actually comes up, and actively steer conversations towards topics that are both interesting and avoid things like age. If you're both legal, then being compatible with each other is far more important than age. Heck, even if one of you isn't legal, as long as you're not getting up to shenanigans it doesn't matter so much. Once you've got her invested in you, the age thing shouldn't bother her so much, and if it does just get her to try to explain why. I've found that if you can get a person to realize they don't really have a reason for an objection that the objection goes away.

arguskos

2011-05-07, 10:42 AM

So, and I'm pretty sure I've asked this before, how do you go about meeting folks? I don't really get out much, beyond school and the grocery. Don't even know where to begin, really, sad as that is.

Lazy Genius

2011-05-07, 11:02 AM

Mostly age comes up when people ask about the school and stuff, as high-school isn't set in stone so much as it is in the US. I'm still in high-school now, but next year starting university should help my cause as well. Also, making them talk about why they object to my young age might help, as you said Scholos. I think unless people feel like mentioning more tips, I've got all the help I need:

In conversation, hide my actual age subtly.
If a subject that could lead to age coming up is brought up, avoid it and steer it around, subtly.
If a woman finds out my age:
Confront their potential problem with it immediately.
Note that they didn't seem to have a problem when they didn't know my age.
Possibly mention statistics are in favor or older women with younger men.

Does that seem like a good interpretation of what's been said (with the very last one added of my own accord)?

So, and I'm pretty sure I've asked this before, how do you go about meeting folks? I don't really get out much, beyond school and the grocery. Don't even know where to begin, really, sad as that is.

While I don't know your age, you could invite some friends to go to a local bar/pub sometimes, drinking alcohol isn't even a necessity. More randomly, you could start a weekend-dog-walking business, as you both meet the dog's owners and the people in the park that like dogs. It's even possible to simply do what you normally do, in a more public environment, and start talking to random people while you're there.

Tiger Duck

2011-05-07, 11:03 AM

So, and I'm pretty sure I've asked this before, how do you go about meeting folks? I don't really get out much, beyond school and the grocery. Don't even know where to begin, really, sad as that is.

Join group activities?

But I am not qualified in any way to give advise on this topic. Seeing as I don't meet new peoples, and am on some level afraid of doing that.

Frozen_Feet

2011-05-07, 12:13 PM

If bars are not your thing:

New hobbies. Anything from karate to scouts will get you acquianted with new people.
Just hanging out outdoors at weekends. Work up the courage to bother some hapless bystander.
The internet. IRC, Facebook, online dating sites - all can serve as a start. Try seeing if you can find old classmates or childhood friends on them and ask how they're doing.

Do note, this is coming from a person who's just getting into this "meet new people" thing. It's surprisingly easy, but it does more often than not require the courage to take initiative.

Serpentine

2011-05-07, 12:18 PM

The very, very best/easiest way to meet new people is through people you already know. Get your friends to introduce you to their friends.

The next best is... group activities, basically. Classes - school, university, community, that sorta thing - are always the first line, which you appear to have covered. Then there's sports, clubs, hobbies, competitions, volunteering, charity work, activity groups (e.g. walking groups) and so on.

Innis Cabal

2011-05-07, 07:40 PM

So, and I'm pretty sure I've asked this before, how do you go about meeting folks? I don't really get out much, beyond school and the grocery. Don't even know where to begin, really, sad as that is.

I'll be your wing man Arguskos, we can go clubbing. And by clubbing I mean the seal variety.

Zeb The Troll

2011-05-08, 12:28 AM

I've only just now barely started to have the connector lines between my mustache and my beard so that I can have any kind of bad goatee and I'm 22.I will turn 40 this year. I still can't connect my mustache and my beard. :smallsigh:

arguskos

2011-05-08, 12:33 AM

I will turn 40 this year. I still can't connect my mustache and my beard. :smallsigh:
I turn 23 in about 5 months and I can't keep the damn thing trimmed fast enough. :smallsigh:

I'll be your wing man Arguskos, we can go clubbing. And by clubbing I mean the seal variety.
Good man, good man. Now, that's what I call meeting people.

Thanks for the advice folks.

Innis Cabal

2011-05-08, 12:36 AM

Good man, good man. Now, that's what I call meeting people.

Thanks for the advice folks.

I think you meant meating people. :smalltongue:

Gaius Marius

2011-05-08, 01:29 AM

Damn it.

From what you have read, in the advices I gave earlier, I stopped being helpless with women. I'm no Casanova, but when I see the opportunity, I can keep my cool and make a few good and daring comments to woo them. It doesn't always work, but eh. Win some, lose some.

Today, I met the Muslim friend I mentionned earlier for the first time in a year. She think I gained weight, she likes my chinstrap beard, and we had the most delightful discussion in the very brief time we were togheter. We plan to meet tomorrow. She thinks I look wiser, and more handsome..

Damn it, I didn't had it. I tried to come up with witty things to say, but... I blocked. For the first time in years, I blubbered my wit. I struggled to be an interesting conversation.

Why? Why do I lose all of what I learned when I'm with her? We still have a rapport filled with trust, and.. Respect for each other's skills and natural gifts.

I'll see her again tomorrow.. Damn it. What is happening?

Serpentine

2011-05-08, 01:48 AM

Sounds like she didn't mind :smallamused:

ZombyWoof

2011-05-08, 02:31 AM

Guess who struck out with (now ex) neighbor chick? :smallannoyed:

Coidzor

2011-05-08, 02:31 AM

Well, that was fun. Reconnect with a friend you haven't seen in awhile, make plans to hang out and catch a movie with some peeps, then they stop answering calls or responding to texts and don't even tell you that they're bailing on the plans. :smallannoyed: :smallsigh:

Guess who struck out with (now ex) neighbor chick? :smallannoyed:

...You got evicted over asking her out?! :smalleek:

Serpentine

2011-05-08, 04:21 AM

...or made such a bad impression she moved away? :smalleek:

Rawhide

2011-05-08, 04:33 AM

Most likey: She was moving away already.
Least likely (but still possible): She is becoming a he.

Tiger Duck

2011-05-08, 12:40 PM

So I got linked to heartlessbitches.com today by tvtropes. And turns out I am a "Nice Guy" tm.

I always knew I had more than a few of the attributes. But reading it now after I've been in a relationship, however brief it was, it has become pretty clear to me that I have all important attributes. Really the one thing I don't do is blame others for what my actions result in.
Which looking back makes me think I might have always knew, and that had been the reason I never made any effort to be in a relationship. The knowledge that I'm not suited to be in a relationship.

On a related note.
How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-08, 12:48 PM

...You got evicted over asking her out?! :smalleek:

...or made such a bad impression she moved away? :smalleek:

Most likey: She was moving away already.
Least likely (but still possible): She is becoming a he.
Aaaand 0-4.

*I* moved away :smallwink:

My first breakup was very troubling but that's more because accusations flew from her mouth like spittle from an enraged and rabid pit bull and because we kept "breaking up" and then her wanting to "get back together" followed by her "breaking up" etc. etc.

My first CLEAN break was the next relationship and I was pissed at her for a while because of something she said to my friends and lies she tried to pass off about me (wow this is a running theme) TO my friends.

Then the third break was very fast. 10 hours later I asked someone else out realizing that I never actually liked the girl in the first place.

Dvil

2011-05-08, 04:41 PM

On a related note.
How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.

I.. was kinda upset. Well, I say "kinda"; what I mean is that I became a very cynical, misanthropic person for about a year. But I'm ok now though :smallsmile:

term1nally s1ck

2011-05-08, 04:47 PM

Ummm. I went on a blind date for V-day about 2 weeks later. I went out partying with my friends the day after, at which I got a cute girl's number.

I dunno, it just didn't phase me. I didn't invest much into that relationship, sadly.

absolmorph

2011-05-08, 05:06 PM

On a related note.
How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.
Pretty well, actually. Especially considering that she kissed another guy (keep in mind this is at 14 years old) a month prior.
I realized she called, rather than texting me, walked into my room and shut the door so our conversation would be private, and then she broke up with me. I walked back into my brother's room, sat down on his bed and said "Well. I'm single now."
Oddly enough, I can't really remember the break-up conversation, even though I can very clearly remember right before and right after.
Said girl is also one of the people who I'm willing to fully confide in currently.

Coidzor

2011-05-08, 05:40 PM

On a related note.
How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.

Moped for a bit. I think maybe 2 weeks. Got a bit sick and entered a depressed state of mind. Got asked out by a friend to the homecoming dance, went, enjoyed myself and may or may not have caught the eye of another girl while I was there who wanted to hang out with me after the group of us me one another, never really did find out, but the girl who asked me out kept avoiding me out of some wrongheaded notion that one isn't supposed to ever see the person one is dating and should only talk to them via phone and get mad when it's brought up that one would much rather see her at school again than only get to talk to her over the phone.

Then a senior decided she wanted to rebel against being a goody two-shoes all of her highschool career and decided she wanted to sleep with me and managed to derail my already failing attempts to get with this one girl I had Spanish class with. Then she decided to stick around for awhile after that, trying to get me to sleep with her again after we broke up. I pretty much was over the first girl who dumped me about midway through the existential crisis I had over the manner in which I ceased to be a virgin.

Plus, y'know, kind of good to get some kind of ego boost in spite of the sheer mass of rejection I was dealing with.

So that kinda helped. Rather annoying that my only successes in highschool were with women I did not choose but who chose me first.

Starbuck_II

2011-05-08, 05:49 PM

On a related note.
How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.

Bad I think, I'm not sure. Well, at least in private (I don't let others know how I'm feeling publically). I got sick (psychosomatic or maybe she gave me a sinus infection?) and my computer died on me (just bad luck but still it could be connected).
Fun fact: it ended the friendship. After everyone (here earlier when I was wondering if I should ask her out on thread) said MD would likely still be a friend.

Ezeze

2011-05-08, 06:01 PM

How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.

Technically I haven't been dumped - I've always been on the dumper - but I can reassure you that my diary is filled with bad* poetry from various relationship rough spots.

If all else fails, Patsy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mQ4q16z11U) Cline (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-wJNpWgss8&NR=1) will get you though it.

*Really, really bad. I mean, just horrible. Like, heart-broken suburban 13-year-old bad.

Zeb The Troll

2011-05-08, 06:11 PM

How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.Very badly. See the previous note about being a cynical misanthrope for an extended period, except replace misanthrope with misogynist.

Tiger Duck

2011-05-08, 06:22 PM

If all else fails, Patsy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mQ4q16z11U) Cline (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-wJNpWgss8&NR=1) will get you though it.

Those are pretty great songs :smallsmile:

LaZodiac

2011-05-08, 06:24 PM

Heart broken suburben 13 year old? You must be a pop idol then (I kid).

I've never technicaly been dumped. I've dumped a person, and had a mutualy understanding with someone else.

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-08, 06:30 PM

You know what always sucks? Watching someone you like be physically intimate with other people and never you. :smallsigh:

Jonesh

2011-05-08, 06:40 PM

On the topic of poetry and dumping, I wrote some heart-broken poetry when I was 17 and got dumped for the first (and maybe the only time, most relationships I have don't really go far enough for there to be a technical "break-up" :smalltongue:) but those poems got some pretty good critique. I'd show you guys them, but they're in Swedish :smallbiggrin:
Yeah, I got no other dumping stories.

@DMS
I know the feeling all too well, I feel for ya man :smallfrown:

ZombyWoof

2011-05-08, 06:41 PM

Ralph Waldo Emerson (http://www.emersoncentral.com/poems/give_all_to_love.htm)

Glass Mouse

2011-05-08, 06:42 PM

On a related note.
How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.

I've never been dumped. I never approached my first crush (to this day I'm still not sure if it was cowardice or subconscious self-preservation), and I'm still together with my first boyfriend.

Oh, and Captain Happy: Congrats on both realizing it and being willing to work on it! There's still a lot of way to go, but I honestly think that acknowledging the problem (especially one as selv-perpetuating as Nice Guy syndrome) is the most difficult part. So... kudos, and good luck with overcoming it :smallsmile:

Alarra

2011-05-08, 06:43 PM

On a related note.
How did everyone take getting dumped for the first time? Because I took it bad, quite the understatement that, which is what makes me think I should not pursue anyone. At least not in the near future.

Rather well, because I knew the relationship wasn't working and would have done it if he hadn't. Pretty sure I didn't give it much thought after the next day or so. Course we didn't date that long. A month, maybe.

The next time I got dumped I was rather more upset, but that was more due to the circumstances surrounding the situation (he had his best friend call me and dump me for him and the reason was because he believed stupid rumors that his sister was spreading...god I loved high school *rolls eyes*) than the ending of the relationship. He was hot though, and popular, so I was rather sad that it didn't work out. Once again, a very short-lived relationship.

The only time I've been dumped when it actually really bothered me was by the guy I'd been dating for 4 years and was living with. I got rather upset for awhile, called my coworkers and picked up every shift I possibly could so that I was away from our apartment from 7am to 11pm nearly every day. Eventually (a week or so later) I realized I could not physically work that much and could not handle living with him and told him to move out. It was awkward and angry between us for a little while after that, because he got pissed because it was a 'bad time' for him to try to move out and get his own place. Which of course I countered with 'should have thought of that before you broke up with me then...', but eventually we started hanging out again (he only moved across the lawn - same apt. complex) and we're still sorta friendly. And I now wonder why I didn't break up with him years earlier. I mean, I knew from our 2nd date that it wasn't going to work out. *shrugs*

Ezeze

2011-05-08, 06:45 PM

You know what always sucks? Watching someone you like be physically intimate with other people and never you. :smallsigh:

If all else fails, Patsy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mQ4q16z11U) Cline (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-wJNpWgss8&NR=1) will get you though it.

Patsy Cline. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuZTk1hdpMs) Seriously.

term1nally s1ck

2011-05-08, 06:58 PM

You know what always sucks? Watching someone you like be physically intimate with other people and never you. :smallsigh:

If you're not her type, she's not yours. Your ideal likes you as much as you like her. Why are you fixating on someone who isn't the right person for ya?

Starbuck_II

2011-05-08, 07:13 PM

If you're not her type, she's not yours. Your ideal likes you as much as you like her. Why are you fixating on someone who isn't the right person for ya?

Because humans are illogical. :smalltongue:

LOTRfan

2011-05-08, 07:19 PM

Oddly enough, I'm having grandparent trouble. :smallfrown:

EDIT: Is this thread the proper thread for this issue? If not, sorry.

So, my grandparents are visiting my parents later this week, for my sister's communion. I love my grandparents (and I probably sound terrible saying this), but it is such a pain when this occurs. :smallsigh:

A little background information before I start explaining many, many years of chaos: I am the oldest of seven, by a large gap, and I live near my parents to help out and such. My grandparents live in another state (we live in the USA), and when they do visit us (which is becoming more and more rare as they get older), my dad gets really stressed, and my mom gets very irritable. Why, do you ask?

That whole thing starts maybe, um, twenty nine(?) years ago, a few years before I was born. My grandmother died in a car crash, so my grandfather had to take an extra job to support his family. As a result, he was rarely home, and when he was, he was asleep and/or dating (he started dating about a month after my grandmother's death. As a result, my dad and my mom (they were dating at the time) ended up taking care of my aunt and uncle a lot.

See, my dad is passive-aggressive to an extreme, to the point that he will deny being angry at you for years as resentment boils inward. At one point, he was actually taking pills for some sort of psychiatric problem relating to it. The extent of which is unknown, as my parents never tell me anything. :smallannoyed:

Anyway, this anger towards his dad was at the bursting point about a year after I was born, when my aunt died during a cross-country trip with her boyfriend. During this time, my mom was telling her that what she was doing probably wasn't in her best interest (previous events during this trip involved an accident where both my aunt and the boyfriend ended up in the hospital, and another where they both ended up in prison for two or three days), but my aunt wouldn't listen. So she told my dad to tell her to come home. My dad was never really close to either of his siblings, so he didn't really care. My grandpa (who got remarried around the time of my birth, much to the resentment of all three of his children) didn't bother telling her to come home either, as he didn't like the fact that his daughter-in-law was telling him what to do..

She died in a car crash similar to that of my granmother. Everyone was grief stricken. My uncle in particular, who was extremely close to her, was so filled with grief that he dropped out of school, but those issues are for another time (:smallfrown:). I think all three were plagued by memories of what had happened earlier. Anyway, This resulted in both my dad and my grandfather blaming themselves and each other for what happened. What happens next is a little fuzzy, as neither will tell me about it; I only get a little information from my aunt (on my mom's side) about what happens, and only then occasionally.

At this point, relations between my dad and my grandparents had almost completely broken down. Since then, its been a little better, but its still sort of awkward. If I didn't call my grandfather at least once a week, they could go without speaking for months at a time. So, the main problem is that while he has this passive-aggressive thing going on, he wants to make it so that everything is perfect for when they arrive.

I can guarantee you that in the next week, hes going to go berserk at least twice, and that at one point he will drive my mother to tears. Once they arrive, both will communicate minimally, while he goes out of his way to subtly annoy my grandmother. At the same time, my grandparents will either make thinly veiled insults as to how the house we live in is subpar, and that it is not as clean as theirs. As an added bonus (:smallmad:), my aunt died at around this time of year, so my sister (who was named after my aunt) is going to have to listen to how similar she is to my aunt, and live through the whole story as told by my grandfather again. Quite frankly, I don't blame her at being disturbed by the story of how her namesake died. Most likely, she'll be acting erratically, too, because of this.

There's probably no advise anyone here can give me, and just looking through the past couple of pages, far worse things are happening, but I needed to vent. The past couple of weeks have been filled with other personal issues as well, so this just sucks. :smallsigh:

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2011-05-08, 08:09 PM

Oddly enough, I'm having grandparent trouble. :smallfrown:

This is the place for ALL relationship woes.

And, all I can say is, it seems that the root of all these issues goes back far longer than you can deal with. The best you can do is attempt to be as friendly and as compassionate and as caring to all parties involved as you can. Especially your sister and your mother, I think, as they're going to be affected by this just as much, or even more than you.

But above all, hang in there.

Ezeze

2011-05-08, 08:16 PM

Oddly enough, I'm having grandparent trouble. :smallfrown:

Patsy Cline doesn't have a song for this. I am at a loss. All I can tell you is that it's not your job to "fix" your fathers relationship with your grandpa and wish you well.

@V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mQ4q16z11U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-wJNpWgss8&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuZTk1hdpMs

LOTRfan

2011-05-08, 08:53 PM

This is the place for ALL relationship woes.

And, all I can say is, it seems that the root of all these issues goes back far longer than you can deal with. The best you can do is attempt to be as friendly and as compassionate and as caring to all parties involved as you can. Especially your sister and your mother, I think, as they're going to be affected by this just as much, or even more than you.

But above all, hang in there.

Yeah, its definitely worse for them. It just, well, frustration is the best word I can come up with...

Who is Patsy Cline? :smallconfused:

Serpentine

2011-05-08, 11:20 PM

After I was dumped (more or lessish), I pretty much had a mental breakdown for 6 months or so.
Didn't help that we were together for 4 years, he got with a good friend of mine 2.5 weeks later, he kept living with me and kept having her over all the time...

Got this out of it, too:
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/photos/DCP_8641.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/photos/DCP_8644.jpg

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 12:48 AM

Coidzor wins this particular contest I think :smalltongue: Also *hugs coidzor* I'm right here broski.

Coidzor

2011-05-09, 01:11 AM

Coidzor wins this particular contest I think :smalltongue: Also *hugs coidzor* I'm right here broski.

Ah. Wasn't really trying to one-up anyone. Sorry. I'll take the hugs though. <_< >_>

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 02:29 AM

Hahaha today's XKCD brought up some really... sad memories. Well one sad memory, really: one of the "two that got away." One of two girls who I had a pretty good connection with, but forgot to get their number even though they were clearly interested in me.

Tiger Duck

2011-05-09, 02:51 AM

So most of you reacted reasonable, and the ones that didn't was after particular long relations. I guess I just should have avoided the relationship all together.

Oh, and Captain Happy: Congrats on both realizing it and being willing to work on it! There's still a lot of way to go, but I honestly think that acknowledging the problem (especially one as selv-perpetuating as Nice Guy syndrome) is the most difficult part. So... kudos, and good luck with overcoming it :smallsmile:

OW, did I say I was going to work on it? I most likely won't, I dislike change.
I just won't subject anyone else to my Nice Guy tm ways.

I think I will make a great hermit.

Glass Mouse

2011-05-09, 03:01 AM

OW, did I say I was going to work on it? I most likely won't, I dislike change.
I just won't subject anyone else to my Nice Guy tm ways.

I think I will make a great hermit.

Oh...

You should, though. Self-loathing and hitting yourself over the head never improved anything (it easily perpetuates a bad situation, though).

But you most likely won't do it just because I tell you. I hope you'll find your own reasons soon :smallsmile:

Maralais

2011-05-09, 03:13 AM

You know what always sucks? Watching someone you like be physically intimate with other people and never you. :smallsigh:

Did someone call me?:smallbiggrin:

And I feel as if I've built a wall between people and me and I can't fall in love because of that. I fear for the worms!
(cookies to all who get the reference)

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-09, 06:24 AM

If you're not her type, she's not yours. Your ideal likes you as much as you like her. Why are you fixating on someone who isn't the right person for ya?

If fixation made sense, people probably wouldn't think of it as a bad thing.

But, if it makes you feel any better, pining after someone who wants nothing to do with me also gives me a guilt complex, so you can be assured that I don't think it's the right thing to do. I just can't fix it.

Ezeze

2011-05-09, 08:47 AM

Hahaha today's XKCD brought up some really... sad memories.

Was... Was she a zombie mathematician? :smallconfused:

@v No, no, I know Marie Curie - I just don't understand how it brought up sad memories...

Serpentine

2011-05-09, 08:48 AM

Oh my God.
Are you saying you don't know who Marie Curie was?! :smalleek:
Look her up. Right now.

Gaius Marius

2011-05-09, 08:59 AM

hey, flash news about the girl I wanted to be with..

Well, surprise surprise, I kinda blew it. I just blubbered what I thought about us, completely losing all of my means. I just don't understand why she has such an effect on me.

Obviously, I struct out. Damn it.

Syka

2011-05-09, 11:23 AM

I dealt with my first break up in...well, it was mixed. The night of, it was pretty bad. Like...after telling my mom and sister (both shocked), I hid in my room and did my best to not throw up (I won). I ended up postponing a presentation I was supposed to have the next day, thanks to an understanding teacher, but mostly went on with my life. A few days afterwards, I was out at the movies with a group of friends (which, ironically, included Oz) and less than a week later was asked out by a classmate.

Within two weeks I was dating said classmate, but it was anything but serious.

It took me, all told, probably 3ish years after the break up to really deal with all the issues related to the relationship and circumstances of end. But then again, it was the demise of a nearly 3.5 year relationship that involved cheating (at the end as the catalyst for him breaking up with me...he was the one who cheated; told me post-ending the relationship) and general dysfunction (for probably the last 6-9 months of the relationship).

Honestly...I handled it well in regards to moving on with life really only because I knew it should have happened long, long before. Part of me is still a bit ashamed that I wasn't the one who ended it.

Zomby, sorry I haven't responded yet by the way. :smallredface: Gonna clean out my inbox then get back to you at...some point this week? It's been a kinda nuts couple of weeks.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 11:46 AM

Was... Was she a zombie mathematician? :smallconfused:

@v No, no, I know Marie Curie - I just don't understand how it brought up sad memories...
Oh, well, because I saw that comic almost a year ago at an XKCD meet near me. When there I met a really cute asian girl from Stanford University. We hit it off, I didn't get her number, etc.

EDIT: Take your time syka, I'm in no rush :smallsmile:

Vonriel

2011-05-09, 11:48 AM

LOTRFan, I understand your pain, and wish I had any advice for you at all. While I can't relate to the history surrounding the relationship, I can certainly relate to the actual relationship. My mother is almost the exact same way, down to the point where she'll actually yell at me for the littlest thing she feels like I've done wrong - something she has literally never done at any other point in my life. And good lord, the tension when my grandparents are here is so thick you'd need a particularly sharp knife to even make a nick in it. The best advice I can give you is to suffer through it, I'm afraid. Finding something that lets you stay isolated, or at least away from the madness, before and during the visits helps a lot. For me, it was visits to friends who live on campus at my college, or visits to the local bookstore to just read for about five hours. I wish you luck.

Maralais

2011-05-09, 11:56 AM

What a striking irony it is, after writing "can't fall in love lololo" to the forums, finding myself getting excited while CHATTING with someone.

Coidzor

2011-05-09, 12:28 PM

How do you know if you're still friends with someone if you can't trust their yes when asked?

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 12:51 PM

I don't think that's a friend... but that's my opinion.

arguskos

2011-05-09, 01:17 PM

How do you know if you're still friends with someone if you can't trust their yes when asked?
If you have reason to doubt their unqualified "yes" when asked a direct question, then I'd say you're probably not friends, just because friends don't really doubt each other like that.

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-09, 01:26 PM

How do you know if you're still friends with someone?

That's the question. And you know what? Nobody can answer that for you. If your answer is "you can always trust them", then you know what you need to know. If it's something else, then you know what you need to know. Done.

Alarra

2011-05-09, 01:27 PM

How do you know if you're still friends with someone if you can't trust their yes when asked?

You shouldn't have to ask a friend if they're your friend. You should be able to make that determination based on their actions toward you. Do they act like a friend?

Starbuck_II

2011-05-09, 01:32 PM

How does a friend act? Shouldn't that be written first. Otherwise it seems a feel issue and feelings are like hints are hard to judge accurately.

Coidzor

2011-05-09, 01:50 PM

You shouldn't have to ask a friend if they're your friend. You should be able to make that determination based on their actions toward you. Do they act like a friend?

Well, then, that's the real question I guess. Was this a bad day or is the friendship ended. And just asking is right out.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 02:07 PM

Depends on how you feel tomorrow I suppose.

Malfunctioned

2011-05-09, 02:19 PM

Okay. Not a very long story but I'll make it even shorter.

I still really like that girl.
I realise that said girl is basically my ex girlfriend.
One of my friends sees me going after the girl and then goes after her.
She tells me that she doesn't want him after she saw him going after another girl he's had a long time maybe-or-maybe-not thing.
She acknowledges that I'm attracted to her.
She states that I'm attractive.
She tells me she wants a mutual friend of ours who has a girlfriend.
She tells said mutual friend that she wants me and not my other friend.
She kisses other friend right in front of me.
I realise I am an idiot and give up completely.

So yeah. That's it. Still keeping my hopes up for meeting someone at the Expo, or seeing that girl my friend wants to set me up with there.

Coidzor

2011-05-09, 02:30 PM

One of my friends sees me going after the girl and then goes after her.
She tells me she wants a mutual friend of ours who has a girlfriend.
She tells said mutual friend that she wants me and not my other friend.
She kisses other friend right in front of me.

You need better friends. It's ok. I need better friends too.

Depends on how you feel tomorrow I suppose.

Ah, but today is tomorrow. :smallamused: :smallsigh:

Ezeze

2011-05-09, 04:05 PM

arguskos

2011-05-09, 04:08 PM

What would you guys do in this situation? :smallmad:
Talk to them about it? Say to them, "Hey, look, I want to understand my role in your household better, can we talk about it? I'm not used to this sort of set up and don't want to offend you guys."

If you're respectful about it, you can probably get them to tell you exactly what they want.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 04:14 PM

What would you guys do in this situation? :smallmad:
Lose my mind, grow to hate them entirely, and want to deface their property :smallyuk:

Oh you mean what SHOULD you do? :smallredface: Talk to them about it, raise your concerns with your boyfriend and then his family.

Ezeze

2011-05-09, 04:17 PM

Glass Mouse

2011-05-09, 04:18 PM

What would you guys do in this situation? :smallmad:

Yeah, ask your boyfriend first. He knows them much better than you and can probably suggest something.

And don't accept the well-meaning "stop being silly, they like you perfectly fine!" that many guys would be inclined to answer :smalltongue:

arguskos

2011-05-09, 04:20 PM

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 04:23 PM

I don't really have the kind of relationship with my boyfriends parents that would let me just talk to them about something like that.

If someone keys your car, do you just watch them go bye? Or do you shout and go "HEY WHY ARE YOU KEYING MY CAR?" Except what they're doing is worse because it's like they're keying your soul. Which, unlike a car, can't be painted over.

Speak up now. You don't need to 'have a certain kind of relationship' with someone to tell them when you feel you're not being treated properly. The only issues that should stand in your way are language barriers. Go talk to them asap.

Ezeze

2011-05-09, 04:31 PM

Also, strictness has nothing to do with them being orthodox Catholics (since "orthodox Christian" doesn't make a terrible amount of sense, so I assume you mean Roman Catholic). I know many an orthodox Catholic who's pretty chill about life and whatnot, just not about their faith. :smallwink:

They are members of the Russian Orthodox Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church), which is Christian not Catholic (and actually highly anti-papal). I wasn't trying to insinuate anything about orthodoxy, it was more that any description of them that didn't include mention of their religion felt like it was missing something, since it's so heavily ingrained in everything they do.

You don't need to 'have a certain kind of relationship' with someone to tell them when you feel you're not being treated properly. The only issues that should stand in your way are language barriers. Go talk to them asap.

But they're not being rude, just distant and abstruse. Nor are they singling me out. I can't exactly say "hey, I think the way you relate to everyone, even your own children, is wrong."

Soooooo, let me get this straight: your boyfriend, their son, can't say "hey Mom and Dad, I'm worried about something, can I talk to you about it?" :smallconfused: That's just brutally strict. If you seriously can't talk to them, them just stay away. Far, far away.

That's the situation, and that's pretty much been my attack plan...

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 04:34 PM

But they're not being rude, just distant and abstruse. Nor are they singling me out. I can't exactly say "hey, I think the way you relate to everyone, even your own children, is wrong."
"It really bothers me that I hear about issues you have with me through your son. I understand that you have a certain way of doing things, but I was hoping that it would be possible for you to explain this way of doing things to me so I can stop upsetting you. And I also hope that if I do mess up in the future, that you could speak with me about it directly. It's really important for me that we learn to get along because I really, really like your son and envision being with him for a long time to come."

arguskos

2011-05-09, 04:35 PM

They are members of the Russian Orthodox Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church), which is Christian not Catholic (and actually highly anti-papal). I wasn't trying to insinuate anything about orthodoxy, it was more that any description of them that didn't include mention of their religion felt like it was missing something, since it's so heavily ingrained in everything they do.
Ah, Russian orthodox. Clearer to just say that, cause orthodox Christian does cause a lot of confusion (most folks don't really think of the Russian branch of Christianity, at least in this country). Fair enough though, I am now educated as to their leanings.

But they're not being rude, just distant and abstruse. Nor are they singling me out. I can't exactly say "hey, I think the way you relate to everyone, even your own children, is wrong."
Well, you can, but it's a bad idea. :smalltongue:

That's the situation, and that's pretty much been my attack plan...
How are you even dating this guy? :smallconfused: I mean, if they're THAT bad, I can't imagine they're big fans of dating.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 04:37 PM

But they're not being rude, just distant and abstruse. Nor are they singling me out. I can't exactly say "hey, I think the way you relate to everyone, even your own children, is wrong."
"It really bothers me that I hear about issues you have with me through your son. I understand that you have a certain way of doing things, but I was hoping that it would be possible for you to explain this way of doing things to me so I can stop upsetting you. And I also hope that if I do mess up in the future, that you could speak with me about it directly. It's really important for me that we learn to get along because I really, really like your son and envision being with him for a long time to come."

Coidzor

2011-05-09, 05:21 PM

I've been dating my boyfriend for two years. Things have been going really well, and while we're not rushing anything, most of my plans for the future have him in them.

I was raised in a very affectionate, very lax household - as long as I let mom know where I was I could do pretty much whatever I want. We exchange frequent hugs and end most telephone calls with "I love you, see you later."

He, on the other hand, was raised in a stern orthodox Christian household. His parents intimidate me. They are really big on respect and a strict hierarchy within the home, and I try to stay in-line but I don't know where any of the lines are. What makes it worse is that they see any broach of behavior on my part as my boyfriend's fault, and will approach him about it instead of me. And while he insists they like me they are so unaffectionate in general that I constantly feel unwelcome.

What would you guys do in this situation? :smallmad:

I'd ask why he hadn't laid down the ground rules for avoiding getting his anal-retentive parents that apparently don't understand anything about interacting with people from different cultural backgrounds than themselves riled.

Personally, in so far as I can analyze how I'd be as a woman looking to get married, I would probably lay down an ultimatum that while I was perfectly willing to work with him because I loved him, if they were going to continue to treat me in this way that we could never work out long term without cutting them out way into the periphery.

Being shown that level of disrespect for being a woman would never fly with me with my prospective parents in law. After all, if they treat me like I'm not a person, how's he going to treat me once he gets old and becomes like his father? Or gets me away from my support network when we're living together and I've had my legs cut out from under me by pregnancy and child-rearing?

edit: Let alone having to deal with them at all for his sake if he doesn't want to just cut them out of his life completely.

Just seems like a big no-no to reveal that much of what could very easily be taken to be misogyny into the equation for figuring out if you wanna marry someone.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-09, 05:32 PM

Oh and I hate to be the jerk but I've run into "unaffectionate and don't feel welcome" with people who were connected to my gf and were also very religious.

Long story short?

I felt unwelcome because I *was* unwelcome.

junglesteve

2011-05-09, 05:55 PM

Keld Denar

2011-05-09, 06:01 PM

{{scrubbed}} simply ask someone to PM you concerning sexual stuff.

You could PM me, or any of the usual suspects, if you'd like.

From the first page.

RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

Jonesh

2011-05-09, 06:52 PM

I'm seconding Keld Denar, personally I don't care but the rules are the rules.

I'm gonna summarize my situation and then ask some advice (considering that this is getting long and convoluted :smalltongue:)

Met a girl online about a year ago, she seemed cool
We meet up with other online peeps in the summer and we both hook up with different persons, the difference being my hook up doesn't lead to anything but she enters a serious relationship
Cue depressing crush on girl until I finally fess up to my feelings for her in early winter/autumn and nothing happens of course
She dumps her boyfriend in January and comes to visit me
We chill out and fool out but there's some weird stuff she does that e.g. she wants to stare into my eyes when we're kissing and stuff like that, which feels way too intimate for me when I'm just fooling around and makes me believe she is crushing on me
So I thought that she wanted something serious and I thought "why the heck not" but then she gave me the cold shoulder for (at that moment) unexplained reasons
We don't talk for months until recently when she spots me online on a webpage and contacts me again
We chit-chat and then I grow bored so I ask her what was up with her past behaviour and she explains that she was afraid of getting serious again and fooling around with someone else so soon after breaking up
She says I'm a fine guy and that she likes me
We meet up for another get-together with online peeps and I've been depressed as hell for the last few days because I had just messed up with another girl
I just want to hook up with somebody there but the girl is the only one who is eligible
I thought I could just act normal anyway but I couldn't and I was just being obnoxious and stuff
I chat with her some time later and said I really wasn't feeling well and she asks me to explain so I do

And now the situation is kind of normalized, except I don't know what to do to get what I want, which is her. We both obviously like each other and we've already fooled around once so I think I could just say to her that we can chill out again now that she has less school to worry about because it's been far too long since last time.
I was thinking of saying that we could just hit the town first, go look in some museums and what not, then we could eat something (at my place or out on the town) and watch something at my place, maybe her or my favorite series or some movie.
And I'll flirt, flirt good. Everything but the situation with her is going super so I think I'll have the confidence/mood to make some nice moves with her... I think. My mood now isn't getting any better because I'm being bombarded with pictures of her on FB where she is just so hot :smallsigh:
What I'm worried about I guess is that I'll go in too hard or that maybe she has lost interest for me in that way, and well, I'm kind of clueless so any advice or encouraging words are welcome.

Tonight's song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kYLImd8_Xc)

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-09, 09:13 PM

If someone keys your car, do you just watch them go bye? Or do you shout and go "HEY WHY ARE YOU KEYING MY CAR?" Except what they're doing is worse because it's like they're keying your soul. Which, unlike a car, can't be painted over.

That eliminates a good third of the reasons for drinking alcohol, then, doesn't it? :smalltongue:

rayne_dragon

2011-05-09, 09:45 PM

I don't really have the kind of relationship with my boyfriends parents that would let me just talk to them about something like that.

Hell, my boyfriend doesn't have the kind of relationship with his parents that would let him just talk about something like that. I have spoken to him about it, though. Which is why he reassures me they do like me.

What I've been doing is avoiding their house, but it doesn't seem fair to him to make him come over to my place all the time...

I get the feeling your boyfriend's folks are a bit like certain members of my family. If that's the case, I don't think you'll ever be able to feel comfortable with them regardless of if they like you or not. The best you can do is remain civil with them while you're around and try your best not to offend. Still, minimize your exposure (but don't cut them out completely). If you feel you're being unfair to your boyfriend, you should probably talk with him about it - well, you should probably talk to him about it anyways. You may want to try meeting him somewhere that isn't either of your houses more often too.

You need better friends. It's ok. I need better friends too.

*hugs* You guys can get in the "needs better friends" line right behind me. :smalltongue:

So yeah. That's it. Still keeping my hopes up for meeting someone at the Expo, or seeing that girl my friend wants to set me up with there.

Good luck. There's no need to have to put up with the kind of nonsense that girl was giving you.

Vonriel

2011-05-09, 09:54 PM

Chain, I can't really advocate the direct, in-their-face approach, because they're not your boyfriend, they're his parents, and that relationship requires a softer touch. Here is where I'd like to say something like, "Show them you're willing to compromise and conform to their ideals, and they may be willing to do the same," except that it probably won't work. Have you looked into their religion to try and figure out where women/girlfriends/wives fit in and how they're supposed to act in their eyes? It might give you a good bit of insight if you can figure it out, and if you find you can't bring yourself to conform to these standards, let your boyfriend know. Obviously his parents' disapproval doesn't mean too much to him, since he hasn't broken up with you yet over their getting onto him for your mistakes, so there shouldn't be much of an issue with you not getting along with his parents. Hell, tons of people find they can't get along with the parents of their significant others, despite being in perfectly good relationships with the SO, hence the origin of all the mother-in-law jokes. :smallamused:

Malfunctioned, that girl you're speaking of seems like a complete tease, and I feel sorry that you're forced to associate with you. I hope for better luck for you in the future, as well. :smallfrown:

ZombyWoof

2011-05-10, 12:24 AM

*hugs* You guys can get in the "needs better friends" line right behind me. :smalltongue:

You need better friends. It's ok. I need better friends too.

OOh! Oooh! Me! Me! I'll be your friend!

Glass Mouse

2011-05-10, 02:42 AM

But they're not being rude, just distant and abstruse. Nor are they singling me out. I can't exactly say "hey, I think the way you relate to everyone, even your own children, is wrong."

Okay, talking with them seems to be out.

I noticed that your boyfriend still lives with them? When is he moving out? I PROMISE you the problems will seem much smaller then.

Other than that, I think you need to make it clear for yourself what you want. Do you want them to treat you affectionately? Or do you just want a better understanding of the ground rules?
The former is not likely to happen, sorry to say. You can't change people's behaviour. The latter, however, your boyfriend can help you with. I recommend lots and lots of talking.

Coidzor brings up a good point, though. Your boyfriend will most likely repeat those "strict" patterns when you settle, have kids and grow old - unless he actively works to change!
You'll repeat your own patterns, too, and if he doesn't want to conform completely, you'll need to compromise. Just... keep it in mind for the long run.

Ezeze

2011-05-10, 10:25 AM

Okay, talking with them seems to be out.

I noticed that your boyfriend still lives with them? When is he moving out? I PROMISE you the problems will seem much smaller then.

He'll be moving come August, barring some unforeseen disaster *knock on wood*.

Your advice has been very helpful and I appreciate it - especially Glass Mouse's advice that I should be clear about what I want. Thank you.

Glass Mouse

2011-05-10, 11:27 AM

Glad we could help, Chain :smallsmile:

I need to vent a little. No advice necessary, but a hug (or a kick, depending on what's deemed appropriate) would be nice.
My boyfriend's been trying to get into his dream study for a few years now. One year ago, he got through the first round of tests and was told that he'd better forget about it. This year, he didn't even get through that. So, just to have a Plan B, he looked into another school to which he has already applied (starting august) and we've looked into moving in together "for real" (we've been living together for 1½ years now, but it's in a one-room thing, it's always been temporary "just until you get into the school", and his life has been less than stable in that time).
Today, he went to talk with the people resonsible for admission tests and was told that he was actually very, very close to getting in. Only reason he didn't get through the first tests was that he'd done that last year. This means that, with a little work, he's as good as sure to get in next year.

The problem? That school is 6 hours away from where I am.

And I'm just... I'd just managed to get my hopes up that he might not have to go, that we could move in somewhere honestly long-term and wouldn't have to stomach more LDR (we've been long distance for 4½ years before he moved in with me - just closer to 2 hours).
I don't want him to move. I love having him here with me, and I hate the thought that we won't have a "real" life together before 2016. When he called to tell me what they'd said, I just felt like crying.

But it's his dream study, and he's wanted it for five years now. Just like I'm at my dream study right now. So basically, I'm just being incredibly selfish and stupid, and I don't wanna tell him right now, because it'll just destroy how happy he was that he has a real chance.
Because he needs to go. It really is the perfect school for him, and I don't doubt he'll love every moment of it.

It just sucks. Why can't that stupid school just move here? Why can't I just be happy for him?

Ugh...

Ezeze

2011-05-10, 11:32 AM

*warm hug for Glass Mouse*

He wouldn't be gone forever, and you'd get back a better man than the one who left. You can be sad that you'll miss him and be happy that he's getting something he's wanted for a long time :smallsmile:

Jonesh

2011-05-10, 11:46 AM

It'll work out Glass Mouse! And I'm seconding what Chain said *hug*

Well, so I asked That Girl about seeing each other again. Kind of cold shoulder'd because she said she was completely booked until graduation and then she is gone on a 3 week trip around Europe.
I'm certain she is very busy, but she isn't making time for me even one day for almost an entire month and when we made up she said she wanted to hang out more so we could get to know each other (besides saying in that vein that I was a fine man)... :smallannoyed:
I guess I've just made too many mistakes with her :smallsigh:
I'll probably leave her alone untill she comes back (not bloody likely that she'll take any initiative now I suppose) and then talk to her about seeing each other again and if we do... We'll talk face to face about this (after some nice chilling out of course).
/monologue :smallsigh:

Glass Mouse

2011-05-10, 12:18 PM

Thanks, guys. That really helps a lot. *hugs*

Chain, I hadn't thought about the "getting a better man back" angle, but you're right - he'll probably be both happier and more self-confident when he's done. At least I hope so.

And thanks for the reminder that two conflicting feelings can co-exist. I have a tendency to... forget that.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-10, 12:32 PM

*hugs glass*

Don't forget that being selfish is ok. You don't want to let him go! But... letting go is sometimes the only way someone (or something) can get closer.

Lazy Genius

2011-05-10, 03:53 PM

Jonesh

2011-05-10, 05:16 PM

I think I've made up my mind on what to do. I'm gonna refrain from taking contact untill she gets back, then I'll say we should get together and try to plan that. If she dodges me again, I'll say my piece and give her an ultimatum that she either admits she's saying one thing and doing another (saying she really wants to hang out, plus she calls me fine etc. but then avoids seeing me), because for my sake she must improve her behaviour or she can go and take a long hike far away from me.
I'll probably not talk to her for about two months but if she doesn't try to talk to me I'll get a good preview of her being cold and indifferent and any indignation I'll have will feel more justified... Though I do realize I should probably just walk away, at least I'll not be petty angry. Because my concerns have some weight behind them, she can't be all nicey-nice and then avoid seeing me/talking to me, regardless of how busy she is.

Any comments/advice... at all?

Ezeze

2011-05-10, 05:30 PM

Jonesh

2011-05-10, 05:52 PM

Or, Jonesh, and this is just me going out on a limb here - maybe her world doesn't revolve around you, and maybe she is genuinely busy. [/harshtruths]

Don't wait for her. Go get a hobby. Hang out with cool people. Have fun. See what happens.

Haha, she is busy but I can't really say that I trust her when she says she's completely booked for more than a month. Regardless, she could take the time to say hi and stuff like she used to do. Because there's quite a lot of incongruity between saying that you'd really want to hang out with somebody again regardless of past mistakes because they're a fine person and you'd like to know them better, but then you just do nothing to prove that. If I get the feeling someone's just saying words that don't mean anything, I'll get a little upset. Yeah, I shouldn't be but I'm still only human. And I know I'm not the center of anyone's world :smalltongue:

Also, that's what I plan on doing but it's hard to focus on meeting new people and stuff when your feelings are all dead set on somebody like that.

Lastly, after she and I fooled around she used the same excuse ("I don't know, I'm so busy") when I said we could hang out the next weekend too but there was more to it than that and that's why I feel I can't trust her now.

arguskos

2011-05-10, 06:05 PM

Or, Jonesh, and this is just me going out on a limb here - maybe her world doesn't revolve around you, and maybe she is genuinely busy. [/harshtruths]

Don't wait for her. Go get a hobby. Hang out with cool people. Have fun. See what happens.
There's busy and there's "bailed out on multiple sets of plans and is apparently unable to clear one afternoon in a MONTH ahead of time". One is legit. The other is bull****. Sounds like it's the latter, not the former.

Glass Mouse

2011-05-10, 06:18 PM

"Distance makes the heart grow fonder"

Excellent example below:
A friend of mine has lived in the US for three and a half years, this ended almost two years ago. (We live in the Netherlands, in Europe) During this time, he met this girl and they started going out, but it only really blossomed two months before his due departure time. So started writing her letters, letters upon letters upon letters (because you know, time difference). He has visited her last summer, will do it again this summer, that is the only time they meet. The two of them are madly in love, even though they only see each other 1 month out of 12, and that's a stretch.

I went with him to the US last summer to meet this girlfriend, and the moment they saw each other is indescribable, the love pours out from it. What's more, they're both still in High School.

Think of how much feeling there'll be when you meet again. :smallwink: There's always something positive in any given situation.

Awww. That's so sweet and awesome.

You're right, positives are always possible to find. And I know that we're able to handle distance. We're good at making the short time sweet. We'll both be happier doing something we love. I can easily entertain myself for hours on end, so the train trips will be a good opportunity to write or read (I actually missed then when we stopped doing the LDR thing last time).
Plus, it's not like we're in different countries or anything. But I might take the opportunity to go abroad for a semester now that he won't be saddled with rent and stuff. Hmm.

I think I'm more freaked out about the time horizon than anything. 2016 seems very, very far away. Weirdly enough, next summer suddenly feels very close. Relative time is relative.

But I'm much more calm now. Venting and internet hugs really helped. You guys are awesome :smallsmile:

Coidzor

2011-05-10, 10:50 PM

Dealing with people who have anorexia or anorexic sentiments confuses and hurts my brain. Ow. :smallsigh:

ZombyWoof

2011-05-10, 10:57 PM

The first thing to remember is that it's an actual disease. No, really. (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/anorexia/DS00606) If the individual had cancer, you'd be rushing them to a hospital. Well, Anorexia Nervosa has a very high mortality rate.

You can't deal with them like they're being rational because medically they aren't and there's something wrong with their brain.

LOTRfan

2011-05-10, 10:58 PM

My Grandparents are expected to arrive exactly 47 hours, 3 minutes from now. My mom, sister, and I have a countdown.

Oddly, my dad seems oddly.... calm. He took off work tomorrow and the day after, though, so there is still plenty of time for a melt down. Still, thanks for the response, guys. I really appreciated them.

Glass Mouse

2011-05-11, 03:38 AM

Dealing with people who have anorexia or anorexic sentiments confuses and hurts my brain. Ow. :smallsigh:

Of course it does. Those people are actively trying to kill themselves.

Read up on it. Gain some sort of understanding (no, it's not just about looking like Hollywood starlets). And listen to Zomby! Whoever that person is, s/he needs professional help. :/

My Grandparents are expected to arrive exactly 47 hours, 3 minutes from now. My mom, sister, and I have a countdown.

Oddly, my dad seems oddly.... calm. He took off work tomorrow and the day after, though, so there is still plenty of time for a melt down. Still, thanks for the response, guys. I really appreciated them.

Hang in there, keep your head up, and remember that however it plays out, it's not your responsibility!

Starbuck_II

2011-05-11, 08:41 AM

Or, Jonesh, and this is just me going out on a limb here - maybe her world doesn't revolve around you, and maybe she is genuinely busy. [/harshtruths]

Don't wait for her. Go get a hobby. Hang out with cool people. Have fun. See what happens.

Nah, if she wanted she could make time. It just means you are less priority than other stuff she wants to do.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-11, 11:26 AM

Nah, if she wanted she could make time. It just means you are less priority than other stuff she wants to do.
Which again doesn't mean all that much. I mean if we're talking "Oh, sorry, I had to wash my hair" that's one thing. If it's "Oh, sorry, first I had to make sure I kept my job by taking on extra shifts, then I needed to work some odd jobs because the price of rent went up, then my grandfather got stuck in the hospital for cancer, and then his labrador retriever puppy got sick too, and after that was resolved I got the opportunity to work in an orphanage for blind youths who are suffering from leukemia which will also advance my career" that's a completely different thing.

TL/DR: Just because something comes up that's more urgent OR important than you doesn't mean you aren't important... or urgent.

arguskos

2011-05-11, 11:31 AM

TL/DR: Just because something comes up that's more urgent OR important than you doesn't mean you aren't important... or urgent.
Someone who is booked a month IN ADVANCE doesn't have that excuse, though. If they can't make time once in 30 days in advance to see you, they're just blowing you off, which is pretty uncool.

No one is denying that having all that jazz come up happens and is legit. We are saying that supposedly knowing your whole schedule a month in advance and still refusing/being unable to squeeze in a few hours with someone you've apparently said you wanted to see anyways isn't legit. Did that suddenly become fair game when I wasn't looking?

ZombyWoof

2011-05-11, 11:43 AM

Nope. If it's that bad keep pressuring until you get a "no." Hopefully she'll take the hint and be much more upfront in her dealings with potential suitors in the future.

Either she's busy and you should keep trying because you have a chance...

Or she's not busy and you should keep trying because she needs to learn how to say "no" properly.

arguskos

2011-05-11, 11:47 AM

ZombyWoof

2011-05-11, 11:49 AM

I wasn't commenting on the situation I was commenting on the idea that you always have time that you can make available to see a stranger (or acquaintance), which is not necessarily the case.

arguskos

2011-05-11, 11:59 AM

I wasn't commenting on the situation I was commenting on the idea that you always have time that you can make available to see a stranger (or acquaintance), which is not necessarily the case.
While somewhat pedantic, you are technically correct. The best kind of correct.
http://images.wikia.com/en.futurama/images/e/ee/225px-Number_1_0.png

Still, in Jonesh's situation, I think we can agree he's getting blown off by someone in a pretty harsh fashion. Jonesh, just walk away. She ain't doing you any favors. :smallwink:

Jonesh

2011-05-11, 12:01 PM

Quotations;

There's busy and there's "bailed out on multiple sets of plans and is apparently unable to clear one afternoon in a MONTH ahead of time". One is legit. The other is bull****. Sounds like it's the latter, not the former.

Nah, if she wanted she could make time. It just means you are less priority than other stuff she wants to do.

Which again doesn't mean all that much. I mean if we're talking "Oh, sorry, I had to wash my hair" that's one thing. If it's "Oh, sorry, first I had to make sure I kept my job by taking on extra shifts, then I needed to work some odd jobs because the price of rent went up, then my grandfather got stuck in the hospital for cancer, and then his labrador retriever puppy got sick too, and after that was resolved I got the opportunity to work in an orphanage for blind youths who are suffering from leukemia which will also advance my career" that's a completely different thing.

TL/DR: Just because something comes up that's more urgent OR important than you doesn't mean you aren't important... or urgent.

Someone who is booked a month IN ADVANCE doesn't have that excuse, though. If they can't make time once in 30 days in advance to see you, they're just blowing you off, which is pretty uncool.

No one is denying that having all that jazz come up happens and is legit. We are saying that supposedly knowing your whole schedule a month in advance and still refusing/being unable to squeeze in a few hours with someone you've apparently said you wanted to see anyways isn't legit. Did that suddenly become fair game when I wasn't looking?

Yeah, that's the thing. It's finals and stuff since she is graduating, but that's not what's she's up to all the time I'm sure, since she still has to take some days off and I can understand that she might want to have stuff she wants to do, people she wants to see or even just spend time by herself. But that means she prioritizes me less than all that, essentially blowing me off while she had sweet-talked me earlier into believing she wanted to see me and try to make things work again.
And the irony of it is that she says she is a very honest person. I'm having some doubts about that, even in the best case scenario that she is hiding the truth by omission, that's still not very honest.
She might just have changed her mind, but that'd be a stupid thing to do and not tell me.

The plan is that I'll wait untill she comes back again by the end of June and then I'll talk to her (since I don't think is likely she'll talk to me by her own initiative like she used to do, another bad sign) and if she blows me off again I'll call her out on her antics, make a reference to last time when she was dishonest and if she keeps it up with doubletalk like that she's not honest and not worth the effort, especially because she keeps flaunting what a honest and no-nonsense girl she is while she says she wants to meet me but then backs out.
If we do meet, I'm still thinking we need to have a serious talk about priorities. If she wants to be friends she has to make an effort too.
I got better friends than her to hang out with (pretty much all of them in fact) so if she can't be honest with me, she's not my friend and she can go take a hike.

EDIT: I probably should just talk to her and not wait huh?

arguskos

2011-05-11, 12:07 PM

EDIT: I probably should just talk to her and not wait huh?
Uh... yeah? :smalltongue:

Don't let it sit, clear the air and get a straight answer out of her. Then, act on that straight answer. If she refuses to give you one, get away from the situation, people who never give straight answers are not worth your time or effort.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-11, 12:12 PM

While somewhat pedantic, you are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Friggin' loved that show. Why didn't it ever come back?

NO! IT NEVER CAME BACK I SAY!

Still, in Jonesh's situation, I think we can agree he's getting blown off by someone in a pretty harsh fashion.
I actually have no idea :smallredface: I saw Glassy was commenting on it and I got distracted by her avatar :smallredface:

(Too many cooks spoil the broth)

Jonesh

2011-05-11, 12:13 PM

Uh... yeah? :smalltongue:

Don't let it sit, clear the air and get a straight answer out of her. Then, act on that straight answer. If she refuses to give you one, get away from the situation, people who never give straight answers are not worth your time or effort.

Well I'm just making sure :smalltongue:
Considering that's what I want to do but I haven't the greatest confidence in my plans, as they are.
I'll call her on skype or tell her to get on skype if I see her somewhere else.
I don't really want to call her cell, it's not worth the few monies I'd spend on that call.

arguskos

2011-05-11, 12:14 PM

Friggin' loved that show. Why didn't it ever come back?

NO! IT NEVER CAME BACK I SAY!
Wait really? I like the new season! It's rather good. I mean, it's not "The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings" or anything, but it has quite a bit of great stuff. "Lethal Inspection" and "The DuhVinci Code" are both really great episodes.

...sorry, Futurama tangent. >_>

ZombyWoof

2011-05-11, 12:25 PM

The summation of the new seasons can be done thusly:

Futurama before it was canceled was something that people would reference in pop culture (see your post).

Futurama after it was canceled was something that would reference pop culture in.

As for relationships the girl I've been chasing for a little while has suggested to me that she would like to have lunch today but didn't set a time before logging off :smallyuk: I swear I may just have to start dating dudes the female gender is so FRUSTRATING :smallmad:
I am, of course, kidding.

arguskos

2011-05-11, 12:35 PM

As for relationships the girl I've been chasing for a little while has suggested to me that she would like to have lunch today but didn't set a time before logging off :smallyuk: I swear I may just have to start dating dudes the female gender is so FRUSTRATING :smallmad:
I am, of course, kidding.
What, are we just NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?! :smallfurious::smalltongue:

Coidzor

2011-05-11, 03:23 PM

Which again doesn't mean all that much. I mean if we're talking "Oh, sorry, I had to wash my hair" that's one thing. If it's "Oh, sorry, first I had to make sure I kept my job by taking on extra shifts, then I needed to work some odd jobs because the price of rent went up, then my grandfather got stuck in the hospital for cancer, and then his labrador retriever puppy got sick too, and after that was resolved I got the opportunity to work in an orphanage for blind youths who are suffering from leukemia which will also advance my career" that's a completely different thing.

Yes, it means they're more inventive about lying to you. :smallamused:

she keeps flaunting what a honest and no-nonsense girl she is

Only dirty, duplicitous liars make a point of how honest they are, in my experience. Well, them and comedy routines, I suppose. So I find it best to take such declarations with the necessary salt or to not take them at all.

Jude_H

2011-05-11, 04:42 PM

Jonesh

2011-05-11, 04:57 PM

Yes, it means they're more inventive about lying to you. :smallamused:

Only dirty, duplicitous liars make a point of how honest they are, in my experience. Well, them and comedy routines, I suppose. So I find it best to take such declarations with the necessary salt or to not take them at all.

Yeah, she hasn't exactly earned my trust with her behaviour. I believed her a lot more before she started acting like this.

I wouldn't call someone a dirty liar for not to telling someone they used to be close to "I don't really care that much about you. Bug off." Especially when the "I'm busy" probably isn't untrue, there's not necessarily any sense of active dislike and the results of the two statements are basically the same.

It does sound like she's not interested in Jonesh, but attacking her character (or whatever "calling her out on dishonesty" means) because she voiced her disinterest politely is a pretty terrible plan.

She hasn't voiced her disinterest politely, she says she wants to see me and then just gives me a lot of "maybe later".
Going from appearing conciliatory, saying she wants to see me and praising me to saying she is completely booked for a month and that we might hang out after that month plus a 3 week vacation when we haven't seen each other since February... well, something's not right in this picture.
Look, I'll try my best to be tactful. But if she is just playing with me, I can't stand that and I'll have to stand up for myself and tell her that such behaviour is unacceptable.
Granted, this might just be a misunderstanding like the last time she was here but considering that she's acting like she did then a second time now, I have my doubts.

Coidzor

2011-05-11, 05:08 PM

I wouldn't call someone a dirty liar for not to telling someone they used to be close to "I don't really care that much about you. Bug off." Especially when the "I'm busy" probably isn't untrue, there's not necessarily any sense of active dislike and the results of the two statements are basically the same.

I would count someone a liar who did that.

I would count someone a dirty liar if they did that and repeatedly stressed/tooted their own horn about how much of an honest person they were and their word was their bond and they didn't play silly games or go on about nonsense and so on and so forth.

And I would not easily trust someone who praised their own honesty, if I ever could.

It does sound like she's not interested in Jonesh, but attacking her character (or whatever "calling her out on dishonesty" means) because she voiced her disinterest politely is a pretty terrible plan.

Eh, voicing one's own opinion and perspective on the character and quality of people that are meaningless to one's self is always a pretty terrible plan because, well, what benefit does one stand to gain from voicing one's opinion in the first place?

Mostly though, it was more of an observation that her hypocrisy in claiming to always be honest should make her current behavior of saying one thing and doing another unsurprising rather than make him feel more hurt by her actions.

Starbuck_II

2011-05-11, 09:36 PM

And I would not easily trust someone who praised their own honesty, if I ever could.

Never mention around you that I never lie, gotcha lol.
Seems a silly rule.

Jonesh:

She hasn't voiced her disinterest politely, she says she wants to see me and then just gives me a lot of "maybe later".
Going from appearing conciliatory, saying she wants to see me and praising me to saying she is completely booked for a month and that we might hang out after that month plus a 3 week vacation when we haven't seen each other since February... well, something's not right in this picture.

She might be playing (hard to get) and unavailable because she doesn't want to be "too available". But that seems weird because you only play that card when dating at least according to TV.

Coidzor

2011-05-11, 10:46 PM

Never mention around you that I never lie, gotcha lol.
Seems a silly rule.

Eh, everyone's got an angle, some are just more acute than others.

She might be playing (hard to get) and unavailable because she doesn't want to be "too available". But that seems weird because you only play that card when dating at least according to TV.

It would seem to be on the absurdly extreme side of that sort of behavior if that's what was going on.

Sholos

2011-05-11, 10:50 PM

Successful date was successful. Later we watched 3 episodes of Firefly. Won't see her again for a while, though. Stupid summer vacation.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-11, 11:16 PM

Girl I'm looking at rainchecked. Again.

Vonriel

2011-05-12, 12:54 AM

Successful date was successful. Later we watched 3 episodes of Firefly. Won't see her again for a while, though. Stupid summer vacation.

This sounds like the foundation for a perfect relationship. If you let her go, I demand contact details, at the very least. :smallamused:

Any particular reason there will be no contact until the summer's over?

Innis Cabal

2011-05-12, 05:49 AM

Girl I'm looking at rainchecked. Again.

It sounds like you need to find a new weather map.

MountainKing

2011-05-12, 09:55 AM

Starbuck_II

2011-05-12, 11:16 AM

I agree and disagree with both of you, but only because for me, it comes down to context. If the person is constantly going "Oh, yeah me? I never lie. My honesty is made out of STEEL, man, SOLID STEEL!", my typical response is at the most polite, an eyebrow raise and a change of topic. If over the course of a conversation, somebody states that they are honest, but they do so either in regards to a situation, or otherwise in a manner unrelated to flat out bolstering their own ego, then I'm a little more inclined to agree.

In regards to strangers, however, I tend to fall back on Groucho Marx: "There is only one way to find out if a man is honest: ask him. If he says yes, you know he is crooked."

True, but I mean, he said Steel. Not even Stainless Steel.
He should have said," my honesty is made of Spiral Energy! Solid Spiral Energy!" See that man, you can trust.
Especially if he has the glasses and cape while he says it.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-12, 12:11 PM

It sounds like you need to find a new weather map.
Um :smallconfused: I've been trying to find a witty comeback but then I realized I have no idea what you're saying :smallredface:

arguskos

2011-05-12, 01:02 PM

Um :smallconfused: I've been trying to find a witty comeback but then I realized I have no idea what you're saying :smallredface:
I think Innis is saying to find someone else, who has less chance of rain. :smallwink:

ZombyWoof

2011-05-12, 01:24 PM

Oh. Well meh to that. I'm not on a mad desperate hunt for a girlfriend here. If she's uninterested I'll find out sooner or later... and that'll be the end of that.

Gaius Marius

2011-05-12, 01:34 PM

Oh. Well meh to that. I'm not on a mad desperate hunt for a girlfriend here. If she's uninterested I'll find out sooner or later... and that'll be the end of that.

On the other hand, wouldn't it be nice to know if she's NOT interested, rather than make us waste our time when they don't have the courage to say it?

I mean, it takes me so much courage to build up just to ask you out. The least you can do is stop myself from humiliating me further. You think you do me a favor by not flat-out turning me down? YOU ARE NOT, BITCH!

:smalleek:

hmm.. the "bitch" part was unnecessary, I believe... Sorry.. :smallfrown:

ZombyWoof

2011-05-12, 01:47 PM

Not being able to say "no" is, quite frankly, a sign of cowardice and a lack of confidence. Which is unappealing.

Eadin

2011-05-12, 03:27 PM

So I went out last night.
Hung out at a bar with my best friend, her boyfriend and some of his friends.
Eventually the boyfriends friends dragged me off to a karaoke bar. One of the guys bought me a few drinks and shared his cigarettes with me.
Had a fun time, sang some silly songs together, some flirting, play fighting, wrote his name on my arm for some reason (we were a little drunk).

Now I added him on facebook but I have no idea what to do now.
I don't know what to say to him, how to start a conversation...
:smallsigh:

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-12, 03:32 PM

"Your name won't come off my arm. I insist that you come give me a good scrubbing until the matter is resolved."

You're a girl, you can get away with that sort of thing. Though I wouldn't write it in a place other people can see it.

In all seriousness, it kind of doesn't matter what you say to him, as long as you talk. If you sit around thinking of what to say to him, then you'll never talk, and you'll never get anywhere with him.

Coidzor

2011-05-12, 03:45 PM

I find hello or another similar greeting is a good way to start. Occasionally inquiring as to how the night was after you parted company can be a nice bit of chitchat to get a feel for his interest in talking to you at all, IIRC.

Starbuck_II

2011-05-12, 03:56 PM

Yeah, I would think it would be easier for a girl.
Just start a conversation/greeting (in person or facebook chat/Aim):
"Hey again."
That you had fun that night.
Hope to sing together again sometime (assuming he found the karoke fun which it sounds like he did).

Just general stuff. The art of small talk is difficult, but it builds upon itself when you find the right starter.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-12, 05:11 PM

Small rant:

I just woke up from 2 hours of lounging about and "sleeping" (really half-sleeping) before I needed to shower for work. The thing is, I really wish I had someone to nap here with. Someone who would've enjoyed playing Fallout: NV while I lounge with my head on her lap cracking random jokes as I fall asleep.

I've been given a tip that I could maybe find said girl here on GitP and it's not that I haven't considered it: I have. But here's the deal: I'm not desperate for a relationship. And a relationship started here would be an LDR in nature which... doesn't scratch the itch I have, so to speak.

So then I start at the beginning, here on this couch half asleep finding that I wish I had someone to spend my time with.

Well I suppose that's life.

Coidzor

2011-05-12, 05:15 PM

Well, it'd probably be healthy to examine your preconceptions of things.

Tiger Duck

2011-05-12, 05:16 PM

ZombyWoof

2011-05-12, 05:31 PM

Well, it'd probably be healthy to examine your preconceptions of things.

I find my preconceptions of LDRs to be a) healthy and b) postconceptions, as it were. Or do you mean something else? :smallconfused:

@Happy, oh, I make effort. I don't center my life around it but I make effort. I just have absolutely no interest in a relationship for the sake of being with someone... and also no interest in a relationship without actually being with someone. Saying, "that's my girlfriend" means nothing to me because those are just words. I could easily say it right now, "Coidzor is my girlfriend." But the point of having a girlfriend, to me, is not to have a girlfriend. It's to spend intimate and romantic time with someone I like who likes me back.

Whiiiiich, while it technically can happen via skype/aim/IM/email, is a much-watered-down substitute. And no I'm not just talking about sex. Can't take a girl who lives in Poland to dinner. Can't enjoy the way she smells or feel her soft hands in mine.

But on the other hand I have fairly stringent standards and the "cute geeky girl" is apparently an endangered species in my neck of the woods... though from what it looks like by scouting around this forum one is likely to find about 1-3 per geographic area. If I was able to easily move between multiple geographic areas this wouldn't be an issue... but alack alas I cannot and thus it is.

So... it basically boils down to this: I really want a girlfriend and am making every reasonable effort to find one. But... I don't want a girlfriend to have a girlfriend... I want a girlfriend in the sense that I want someone to spend time with, someone who'll give me a big hug after a long day at work, someone to laugh with and play games with. Which means that for now I just have to meet people who are interesting to me (whether they're friends or not doesn't really matter, first build a network then find someone you like) who live near me.

Gaelbert is even too far away to hang out with properly and consistently :smallfrown:

Tiger Duck

2011-05-12, 05:41 PM

It shouldn't surprise you that I'm giving you poor advice. considering all the times I've come to you for advice :smallwink:

ZombyWoof

2011-05-12, 05:45 PM

Well aside from the fact that putting too much effort into finding a gf is counterproductive, I don't think the advice was too too bad. Just misinformed :smallwink: I go out to a bar about once a week, I hang out with people frequently and try to arrange group settings and even have a club or two I enjoy chilling at.

But I usually don't mention that :smallwink:

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-12, 06:07 PM

... though from what it looks like by scouting around this forum one is likely to find about 1-3 per geographic area.

This forum isn't terribly accurate. Going by the forum's demographics, there are 3-4 geeks in mid-Ohio, all male. I can guarantee you this is not true (just because I don't have a chance with geeky girls doesn't mean I can't find them). I advise that you attempt to find where your local geeks converge. And if you already have tried that...try harder!

I gotta say, though, I agree about LDRs. I'd rather have nothing than a supposed "girlfriend" with whom I have never had and will not have in the future any physical contact, even if said physical contact is just hugs and holding hands. You just can't be there for someone the same way when you're connected digitally instead of physically.

Innis Cabal

2011-05-12, 06:24 PM

I think Innis is saying to find someone else, who has less chance of rain. :smallwink:

On the nose as usual mi amigo.

Coidzor

2011-05-12, 06:45 PM

I find my preconceptions of LDRs to be a) healthy and b) postconceptions, as it were. Or do you mean something else? :smallconfused:

You seemed to insinuate that they're something only someone who is "desperate," whatever that means to you, would even countenance the possibility of an LDR. And adamantly and repeatedly state that you're not desperate for some unknown reason.

Now, maybe I'm just hyper sensitive to such things, but it seems to have developed into a chorus line for you to remind us that you're not desperate. I don't particularly care if you are or are not, but that you keep mentioning it seems curious to me.

Although upon the second reading it seems more likely you just mean sex in regards to the first point.

Tiger Duck

2011-05-12, 07:00 PM

Seeing as we are casually nearing the end of this thread.

Does anyone else feel that an anonymous mailer like the one in the LGBT thread could be useful?

LaZodiac

2011-05-12, 07:07 PM

Yes. A billion times yes. I may not need it, but others definitly might.

arguskos

2011-05-12, 07:08 PM

Seeing as we are casually nearing the end of this thread.

Does anyone else feel that an anonymous mailer like the one in the LGBT thread could be useful?
Likely, yeah, that'd be handy. I imagine it'd see use.

Pheehelm

2011-05-12, 07:11 PM

Agreed. The usual approach in past RWAs has been to PM someone and ask them to post it anonymously, so it's definitely the sort of thing people would have used if it'd been available. The question on my mind is, if RWA got one like the LGBT thread, who would maintain it/have access to it?

Glass Mouse

2011-05-12, 07:11 PM

Yes, absolutely. I'm almost a hundred percent sure that'd find a use.

Agreed. The usual approach in past RWAs has been to PM someone and ask them to post it anonymously, so it's definitely the sort of thing people would have used if it'd been available. The question on my mind is, if RWA got one like the LGBT thread, who would maintain it/have access to it?

I'm not sure what the standards are (in the LGBT thread, it's a mod, which seems like a generally good idea), but I'd be willing.

Thufir

2011-05-12, 07:12 PM

I gotta say, though, I agree about LDRs. I'd rather have nothing than a supposed "girlfriend" with whom I have never had and will not have in the future any physical contact, even if said physical contact is just hugs and holding hands. You just can't be there for someone the same way when you're connected digitally instead of physically.

...I think you have some rather strange ideas about LDRs.
And, while I'm not by any means a regular in this thread, I agree that the anonymous mailer thing is a good idea.

Coidzor

2011-05-12, 07:16 PM

The question on my mind is, if RWA got one like the LGBT thread, who would maintain it/have access to it?

Well, that is the real question.

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-12, 07:18 PM

...I think you have some rather strange ideas about LDRs.

I suppose I meant the foreseeable future. Let's be honest, long distance by nature means that there's a long interval between formation of relationship and actual physical contact. Otherwise, it's most likely closer to a "medium distance" relationship.

Also, we're on page 48. Be aware that a new thread will need to happen soon. Title suggestions are welcome.

Thufir

2011-05-12, 07:27 PM

I suppose I meant the foreseeable future. Let's be honest, long distance by nature means that there's a long interval between formation of relationship and actual physical contact. Otherwise, it's most likely closer to a "medium distance" relationship.

Not really. You're just inventing these distinctions, they're not in common use. By common usage, LDR encompasses everything from "next county, we see each other on weekends" to "other side of the planet, we've never actually met in person".
Also, long distance relationships can be formed with physical contact, but then one or both of the couple go back home, a long distance away from each other.

Edit: Well, actually on consideration, maybe not the "next county, see each other on weekends", I might discount that. But it certainly starts counting for not too much further than that.

Tiger Duck

2011-05-12, 07:30 PM

Not really. You're just inventing these distinctions, they're not in common use. By common usage, LDR encompasses everything from "next county, we see each other on weekends" to "other side of the planet, we've never actually met in person".
Also, long distance relationships can be formed with physical contact, but then one or both of the couple go back home, a long distance away from each other.

Doesn't that make nearly all relationships LDR?
Different peoples have different ideas about what is a long distance.

Never mind :smallwink:

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-12, 07:40 PM

As far as I'm concerned, if you have physical contact even a little more than once a month, it's not an LDR for the purposes of "not much physical contact" discussion.

And, really, anything formed between Playgrounders probably involves sufficient geographic distance to count as a "not much physical contact" relationship.

Sorry to disappoint all the ladies here who were pining for me :smalltongue: Well, I thought it was funny, at least.

Coidzor

2011-05-12, 07:44 PM

Doesn't that make nearly all relationships LDR?
Different peoples have different ideas about what is a long distance.

Is part of the problem, yes.

Thread titles:

An offer you can't refuse

Lonely Hearts Club Bandstand

Lets do lunch

Sy-celia, you're breaking my heart (ok, I'm reaching here.... and I think we may have already done this one anyway...x.x)

Thufir

2011-05-12, 07:53 PM

Doesn't that make nearly all relationships LDR?
Different peoples have different ideas about what is a long distance.

Yeah, but I think you'd get a general consensus that anywhere you can get to in, say, less than an hour, doesn't really count as long distance.

As far as I'm concerned, if you have physical contact even a little more than once a month, it's not an LDR for the purposes of "not much physical contact" discussion.

Other people are concerned differently.

And, really, anything formed between Playgrounders probably involves sufficient geographic distance to count as a "not much physical contact" relationship.

...Because no Playgrounders live anywhere near each other? :smallconfused: It's not like people are prevented from joining if they live too close to an existing forumite.

Starbuck_II

2011-05-12, 08:10 PM

Is part of the problem, yes.

Thread titles:

An offer you can't refuse

Lonely Hearts Club Bandstand

Lets do lunch

Sy-celia, you're breaking my heart (ok, I'm reaching here.... and I think we may have already done this one anyway...x.x)

What about: Baby, I'm glucose, be my fructose, and we'll make sweet sucrose together.

Coidzor

2011-05-12, 08:12 PM

What about: Baby, I'm glucose, be my fructose, and we'll make sweet sucrose together.

I like it but we don't have enough characters for that to be the thread title.

Glass Mouse

2011-05-12, 08:12 PM

Yeah, but I think you'd get a general consensus that anywhere you can get to in, say, less than an hour, doesn't really count as long distance.

I'd like to chip in that money may also be a factor. When my boyfriend goes to his school, a single visit to see him is gonna eat up between 1/5 and 1/4 of my available income for a month (unless I manage a job upgrade, which I'll pretty much have to).

For me at least, money is a much more limiting factor than time. Of course there's a relation between distance and money needed to get somewhere but... still important for students and the like.

Innis Cabal

2011-05-12, 10:52 PM

As far as I'm concerned, if you have physical contact even a little more than once a month, it's not an LDR for the purposes of "not much physical contact" discussion.

I suspect they feel differently.

Serpentine

2011-05-12, 11:20 PM

And, really, anything formed between Playgrounders probably involves sufficient geographic distance to count as a "not much physical contact" relationship.At least two playground-based marriages suggests otherwise.

Re. thread title: Dammit, I thought of something just last night...

Re. anonymous mailer: Syka?

Coidzor

2011-05-12, 11:31 PM

Re. thread title: Dammit, I thought of something just last night...

Hmm... "About Last Night..." eh? eh? :smallwink:

"GITP from last night" mebbe?

"De birds und de veasles"?

"More twisted than the grapple rules"?

Innis Cabal

2011-05-12, 11:32 PM

Relationships Woes and Advice 19: Dr. Drew Straws and lost

ZombyWoof

2011-05-12, 11:32 PM

You seemed to insinuate that they're something only someone who is "desperate," whatever that means to you, would even countenance the possibility of an LDR. And adamantly and repeatedly state that you're not desperate for some unknown reason.

Now, maybe I'm just hyper sensitive to such things, but it seems to have developed into a chorus line for you to remind us that you're not desperate. I don't particularly care if you are or are not, but that you keep mentioning it seems curious to me.

Although upon the second reading it seems more likely you just mean sex in regards to the first point.
You're way hypersensitive. I said that what I want is not possible from an LDR. No more, no less. I said that I've been considering it and then realizing there's no point to an LDR for me. Anything I could get from an LDR I already have. And it is not about the sex (though that is definitely a part of it).

I also repeatedly state I'm not desperate because that's one of the things that's going through my mind right now. Whether or not I'm desperate for a relationship. Because that's an unhealthy mindstate.

EDIT:

Relationship Woes and Advice 19: Now Coming to Canadian Bars Near You?

Serpentine

2011-05-13, 01:38 AM

Relationship Woes and Advice 19: Hey Baby, Wanna Destroy All Humans?

Rawhide

2011-05-13, 02:03 AM

Relationship Woes & Advice 19: We Blew Our Last Chance at a Teenager Joke

Relationship Woes & Advice 19: 19? 19! (Anybody would think they just won Gold Lotto)

Sadly, I think only Queenslanders would get that last one.

Serpentine

2011-05-13, 02:05 AM

That stupid ad for Lotto where that woman gets all excited about nothing? I thought it was 21...

Rawhide

2011-05-13, 02:07 AM

That stupid ad for Lotto where that woman gets all excited about nothing? I thought it was 21...

There are several different ones. I know it has been 24 and 19.

Lissou

2011-05-13, 02:13 AM

LDRs have their struggles for sure, and I can absolutely understand ZombyWolf here. Put simply, if his main reason for craving a relationship is missing/needing/wanting contact, a LDR is not likely to help with that.
It's good to know what you can be up for. I don't think it's insulting LDRs in general to say it's not personally for you.

I'm in a LDR again right now, just arrived back in France and my boyfriend is still in the US, and we might end up spending a year or so apart. The inter-continent kind of LDR is a pain because it costs so much to see each other, you can't do it often at all, and when you do it you need to make it last more than a few days.
I used to live in Canada and him in the US and it was still long-distance but we could see each other every few months rather than maybe once a year. Big difference.
We also spent three months living together from early Feb to early May (I told you, I just got here), and combined with the time we spent together before when he was in the US and I was in Canada, it definitely means there has been physical contact. And there will be more in the future, too.

But it can be hard. If I was single right now and open to a relationship, but mostly for the companionship, it would make sense not to look for the kind of thing I have.

This being said, yes, you can meet someone online that you live close to, and you can meet someone in person who lives at the other end of the world. If there are people online who live close to where you do, Zomby, I don't think you should discount that :)

Eadin

2011-05-13, 09:16 AM

So I said hi, and now we're talking and he found the scrubbing thing very funny (thanks DMS!)

So yay! Thanks for the advice guys!:smallbiggrin:

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 11:28 AM

This being said, yes, you can meet someone online that you live close to, and you can meet someone in person who lives at the other end of the world. If there are people online who live close to where you do, Zomby, I don't think you should discount that :)
I don't... but I've found one person here (other than you... you used to be 'round these parts I think) that lives here. Well two, but one of them I already knew IRL :smallwink: 2/3rds of them are male... and I'm not looking to date a dude, no offense to the fine gentlemen of the playground.

I'm looking for someone close and I'll be ecstatic to find someone nearby who's cute and a geeky person. I also don't define close as "same town" but "reasonable driving distance" (so those of you between, say, Portland and Monterey. I might even go as far as LA if you are willing to pick me up from the airport). I do approach interesting people on the forums and ask where they at quite frequently actually :smallwink: Generally I give them my location and ask if they're nearby. So far one person in Monterey (but I'm not quiiite equipped to head down there yet) and one person in Berkeley, both male (which I do want to head down to because that town is fun).

And if I met someone IRL who was shortly going to move, say, outside of that strip of "local," that would require plenty of thought and consideration before I chose to enter a relationship. But an LDR would also require a lot of thought and consideration before I chose it. I *am* still... somewhat open to the possibility but the circumstances would have to be very specific.

Relationships Woes and Advice 19: A Prime Source of Love

Syka

2011-05-13, 11:34 AM

Coidzor

2011-05-13, 11:38 AM

That's our contract law obsessed society for ya.

Vonriel

2011-05-13, 11:43 AM

You could say something to the effect of 'my boyfriend of x years, who I'll be marrying when we're financially capable of such things' in your e-mail. It suggests a certain degree of commitment beyond the normal boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, while not actually crossing the boundaries of blatant lying. Just... deliberate misleading. :smallwink: And I wouldn't even consider it that, since you two practically are married in all but the legal sense, from what I understand.

Edit: Crap, forgot to actually answer the question. Oops. Anyway.. I would think that would be acceptable, though I'm no expert on jobs. If you could clear it with someone you know personally who works in HR, that would probably be best.

As for titles, I don't know, I'm bad at this. The Uncommon Factor, maybe? Or Huzzah, the last of the teens. The Awkward Years are Nearly Gone. The Boring Years Begin - I mean, seriously, nothing important happens in the 19-20 year old range. :smalltongue: What, everyone else was doing it...

As for the anonymous mailer, asking Syka to take the responsibility of that by herself might be too much. I think it should be more of a committee thing, where two to four people keep track of it, with some degree of contact between members to ensure each e-mail is only handled once.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 11:57 AM

Annnnnd the downside to a long term, committed relationship wherein the partners are not married...

Professor recommended a job for me to apply to. Very close to be a dream job...in like, four years. Because it may not have me stationed in an area conducive to my relationship and/or require too much travel. But pretty much dream job.

Bad part: saying "I need to talk to my husband (or even fiance)" or "I can't because my husband/fiance needs to be here not there" is far more socially acceptable than when you replace husband/fiance with boyfriend. :smallsigh:

Argh. Since I don't actually know where it would be and how much travel is involved, I'm probably going to email the guy and tell him about myself and then ask for more info on specifics. Do you think that would be OK and then, if it's not conducive, to let him know that while the company itself would be a good fit for me, the specific job is not at the current time?
.
Gedonkle.

"I need to talk to my gedonkle before I make any decisions."

But if you're not willing to do that honestly, "I need to talk to my boyfriend to decide what we're going to do." I believe you shouldn't work for people who don't respect you, and people who don't respect your choice in terminology for relationships don't respect you. It may seem like a dream job in terms of what you are doing, but a bad boss will make a job a living hell while a great boss can make a bad job seem like fun.

@The Anonymous Mailer, I would be willing to help set up/maintain that. We could use a Google account and whoever picks a certain email could label it with one of those awesome labels that Gmail has.

Syka

2011-05-13, 12:36 PM

I've been a bit unreliable with keeping up to date on things, so it might be best for others to take over the anon mailer. I'm fully in support of it, though. :)

Thanks for your input. It's a good point about a boss respecting my use of terminology (soooo want to use gedonkle).

Vonriel, the only thing is we don't really plan on getting married, lol. Honestly, once I get a job we could but there are a number of reasons, both personal and financial, that we won't for the foreseeable future. My only request is that we make sure certain legal rights are in place, such as ability to see each other in the hospital, etc. You are correct in that we are as-good-as. Just lacking the paper and no real desire to do so at this point. He's even talked about potentially taking the name I am planning on changing mine to. XD

I feel a bit better, though. I might try to avoid mentioning it at all, to be honest, since I know employers aren't allowed legally to inquire about your personal life. I just don't know how to say "Well, I can't go to X place, I need to be in Y" without an explanation. ><

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 12:42 PM

If pressed say it's a "family matter."

Coidzor

2011-05-13, 12:42 PM

Syka

2011-05-13, 12:45 PM

Except the entire point of using gedonkle is so you have an excuse to buffalo others when they ask what you mean.

Which is bad enough when you're intentionally antagonizing peers, but it becomes rather untenable with employers and prospective employers.

Pretty much what I'm thinking...it's not really the best idea to confuse someone I want to work for.

Now, my current managers I could so get away with it and they'd probably laugh.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 01:04 PM

Like I said before, go ahead and claim you have to be in Y. If the manager presses the issue during the interview that's a) illegal and b) you can always answer "It's a private family matter."

Pheehelm

2011-05-13, 02:08 PM

A while back there were complaints about the lack of gender neutrality in the "warning signs of abuse" lists linked in the OP. (Incidentally, it seems that, one, the link didn't make it in to this thread's OP, and two, the more balanced of the two pages has 404'd.)

I bring this up because it turns out there's another page on the subject that takes more of a stab at neutrality (http://helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects .htm). All in favor of adding it to the next OP?

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 02:15 PM

I like that one. It has the Zomby Seal of Approval *sticks a section of brains on it*

Lissou

2011-05-13, 05:09 PM

You could always say "partner", it sounds more long term than boyfriend does.

But I'm not sure why you need to tell them anything at all if the goal isn't to get them to help your boyfriend move as well to be with you. Since that doesn't seem to be an option, can't you just say "no"? I mean it's a job offer, there are so many people looking for jobs, if you refuse they know they'll get lots of other people more than willing to take it. They'll get over it.

Just say you can't move right now. That should be enough, no?

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 05:31 PM

There *is* a concern about homophobia there. "Partner" can sound like "life-partner" which is code word for "lesbian." Which can make some employers antsy.

I mean what I said before about liking your boss still applies... but honestly since I'm straight it wouldn't matter to me too much if my boss was homophobic. I mean sure, they're a worse person for it, but in the end it's not going to affect me.

Starbuck_II

2011-05-13, 06:32 PM

There *is* a concern about homophobia there. "Partner" can sound like "life-partner" which is code word for "lesbian." Which can make some employers antsy.

Same thoughts. Partner has connotations now adays. Gedonkle seems the best word overall.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 06:34 PM

Gedonkle is always the best word overall :smalltongue:

Starbuck_II

2011-05-13, 07:48 PM

I dare you to use it on a paper someday to prove that. :smallwink:

Reading that abuse link:
Wait seeing a women as a sex object is abuse? I thought it was just ungentlemenly.

Allowance doesn't seem like abuse: people do it to kids all the time.
Why is it worse when it is adults?

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 08:11 PM

Actually an allowance is fine imo in a single income family.

DeadManSleeping

2011-05-13, 09:24 PM

Well, perhaps the idea that the non-earning partner has less say in how the money is spent doesn't sit well with some people. After all, that partner is likely doing quite a bit of work maintaining the household, so despite not directly earning money, should have equal say in how the family's resources are managed.

Interestingly, in many societies, the non-earning partner would be the manager of family finances as part of the 'managing the household' schtick. The earning partner would be the one with an allowance!

Still, if one partner really does little to contribute to the well-being of a household, then an allowance may not be unreasonable. The earning partner will be expected to buy the non-earning partner expensive gifts no matter what, so... :smallamused:

EDIT: I can easily prove that "gedonkle" is the best word!
Given: To be the best anything, there must be nothing in the category better; "gedonkle" is a word
-If the amount of time a word is in use and its widespreadness are ignored, all words are of equal value
-If all words are equal, then all words other than "gedonkle" are equal to "gedonkle"
-If all words are equal to "gedonkle", no words are better than "gedonkle"
THEREFORE: "Gedonkle" is the best word.

Of course, if you go ahead and assume that words differ in value, the proof doesn't work, but I think that's just going to get you all tied up in semantics.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-13, 10:23 PM

I see no problems with "allowance" because it's really just another way of saying "budget."

Vonriel

2011-05-13, 11:41 PM

Allowance implies that one person is dominant in the relationship and the other is submissive. Not to mention that the word itself is saying that one person is allowing the other to do something, meaning permission is required, meaning one person is dominant. While in essence, a budget and an allowance are roughly the same thing, the connotations of the two are vastly different, and ignoring the connotations in the words isn't possible in our society with the way language works.

Vonriel, the only thing is we don't really plan on getting married, lol.

Like I said, it's a little lie, but not so bad as to be an actual, blatant, but more than that, provable one, like calling him your husband would be. :smallwink: I know it's on shaky moral grounds, but honestly, saying you plan to some day is more easily explained away should they inquire about it, and I doubt they'll have the memory to follow up anyway. It conveys slightly less than the right amount of seriousness, of course, but more than boyfriend ever could.

Of course, this is probably getting to you after you've sent out the letter, but hey, I thought I'd try and help as much as possible. :smalltongue:

Serpentine

2011-05-14, 12:54 AM

You're all overthinking this :sigh: "Partner" is more than sufficient.

rayne_dragon

2011-05-14, 01:12 AM

Don't forget the old "ball and chain" bit. You never hear it anymore these days, for some reason. :smallwink:

Coidzor

2011-05-14, 02:21 AM

Lissou

2011-05-14, 02:50 AM

If there really is a worry that "partner" will lead to people assuming it's a female partner, and that it will lead to prejudice, it doesn't seem too hard to me to sneak in one or more masculine pronouns in the sentence.

The Rose Dragon

2011-05-14, 04:42 AM

You could always say "partner", it sounds more long term than boyfriend does.

It sounds less like a loving relationship definition and more like a buddy cop movie term to me.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-14, 04:53 AM

You don't see any possible way that someone could see it as patronizing and controlling? Really? :smalltongue:

Calling someone "honey" and "dear" can be seen as patronizing and controlling. We aren't here to alert people to think that MIGHT be patronizing and/or controlling, we're here to alert people to what IS patronizing and/or controlling.

I bet you an enormous and undetermined sum of money that I could turn any simple phrase and/or scenario into something patronizing and controlling. And you will not take that bet because you know I'm right.

An "allowance" is by any other name a "budget." "here, you can spend $X however you like." How is that patronizing and/or controlling? How is it anything but unfair for you to demand that I give you unfettered access to my bank accounts and the money I make? What if you're a moderately compulsive gambler who has a serious addiction? What if you're a shopaholic and like to buy a lot of elegant new things and we're on a tight budget? What if you're just not very good with money and I need to control exactly how the funds are spent so we can still afford our mortgage payments?

Yeah. Things need a lot better reason to be on that list then "they might be controlling and patronizing." Especially since your CHOICE of words violates gender neutrality and completely passes by the prospect of a woman doing the controlling in a relationship.

About the "partner" vs "boyfriend" vs "husband" debate: all those who need to know hear that he is your "gedonkle." Everyone else gets to hear about the "family issue" that keeps you localized wherever you happen to be.

Innis Cabal

2011-05-14, 06:14 AM

I'm against giving someone you love a budget/allowence/access to the money you make from the get go. It only leads to trouble. If they don't have money of their own and you want to give them some that's cool, but saying "You get 400 bucks a month to do with what ever." well...I certainly wouldn't ever do it. Not because it's patronizing or anything but...that's my money...you don't get a cut just because you "love" me.

Lissou

2011-05-14, 07:02 AM

I'm usually in charge of the money in my relationships, because I'm just better with it. In practice, it has led to things like my knowing all the account numbers and passwords for all my accounts as well as my partner's, while he didn't know mine and possibly forgot his (not that I was hiding them, mind you).
It has the potential to be terrible in the wrong hands, of course, but when the person in charge is trustworthy, it means the other person gets more money than they would, makes less mistakes, etc.
For instance, my boyfriends are terrible about things like fees. Just a glance and I can see that, say, one monthly transfer instead of two smaller transfers can result in waiving the monthly fee.
I also know people who just spend what's in the account no matter how much or little. Opening a separate account that's less accessible to stash away savings works well (with their full knowledge and consent of course). In some extreme case, picking a type of account that doesn't allow you to take the money back (retirement account for instance) is even better.

Some people just don't want to "bother" with it. It ends up costing them money and they're not happier, far from it. Not having to worry about it all can be peace of mind.

I think it's the equivalent of having one person cooking the meals. The other person has input, but they don't have to worry about doing it, they just eat. Sure, the other person could poison them, starve them or feed them unhealthy stuff, so it's a matter of trust and making sure the person knows what they're doing. But in the end they can cause you to be healthier, eat food that didn't get burnt and have time for other stuff.

Yet I can't imagine many people would go "your gedonkle does the cooking? Can't you see they're trying to control your life? You don't even get to decide what you're eating anymore!"

Rawhide

2011-05-14, 08:16 AM

Uh, guys... Every time you use the word gedonkle, it sounds like you are referring to someone's schlong. Might want to rethink that.

LaZodiac

2011-05-14, 08:43 AM

What ever happened to just calling someone your lover? Or "the person I love"? It's totally valid a term.

Also, enforcing a budget is in essence putting up a limitation, and therefor some kind of control, but not one that should be of any concern to the person recieving it. It's just called money management, after all, no need to be offended.

Serpentine

2011-05-14, 08:47 AM

Pheehelm

2011-05-14, 08:52 AM

What ever happened to just calling someone your lover? Or "the person I love"? It's totally valid a term."Lover" has come to mean "person I have sex with regularly." Strangely, it often implies an absence of love. I'm not sure how we got there.

MountainKing

2011-05-14, 09:44 AM

Allowance implies that one person is dominant in the relationship and the other is submissive. Not to mention that the word itself is saying that one person is allowing the other to do something, meaning permission is required, meaning one person is dominant. While in essence, a budget and an allowance are roughly the same thing, the connotations of the two are vastly different, and ignoring the connotations in the words isn't possible in our society with the way language works.

I suppose allowance COULD mean that, but in today's (at least in Western) society, where it's fairly common for both halves of a relationship to be working and earning income, I just don't see how calling it an allowance in a single income relationship is a problem. That's literally what it is, after all. An allowance. I made this money, it is mine, but in the interest of supporting us, I am allowing you to have some of it. To me, it has absolutely nothing to do with dominance, unless you're the type of person to make it that way. Like Zomby said, you can take practically anything and make it patronizing/controlling. That does not mean that practically everything IS patronizing and controlling. That's what that nasty icky complicated "context" thing is for; determining whether or not something is what it says on the label.

Trog

2011-05-14, 09:51 AM

I see no problems with "allowance" because it's really just another way of saying "budget."

You don't see any possible way that someone could see it as patronizing and controlling? Really? :smalltongue:
Mr. Coidzor is correct. "Allowance" is most certainly a controlling term. A more proper one is "budget."

EDIT: The reason why is that an allowance in the very word implies and imbalance of power. The word "allow" indicates that there is someone in control. An allowance is given to children by an adult. Calling it a budget is something that removes that whole undesirable dynamic.

Each partner should have a certain "mad money" budget for spending on what they want, say. So long as that's enough for both partners (given their income level) and relatively even then it's all good no matter who manages the household finances. When one partner controls all the money and the other doles it out and controls it you can bet that the non-controlling partner will begin to resent the other for it. Best not to ever go there and mutually agree to an amount that is the same for both and revisit it if the person managing the finances sees some dips into the red. Then adjust both persons' amounts equally.

Calling someone "honey" and "dear" can be seen as patronizing and controlling.
:smallconfused:

Pheehelm

2011-05-14, 09:55 AM

Well, traditionallyish, the housewife quite literally managed the household - including the finances.
I am curious to know how money works in a household with one money-earner. Does it usually go in a common account that they both handle and can draw from, does one person usually deal with the finances but either can draw from it, or is there usually an allowance system?
This is related to something I've inquired into myself. First I asked a married couple, both grad students studying microeconomics, who'd described one of their conflict management methods to me. A few months later, I talked to a woman who's both a financial literacy educator and trained marriage counselor. Also married. She and her husband tend to swap out being breadwinner, depending on whose career is in transition.

The question I put to them both times was a hypothetical situation in the same general vein as what you're asking -- basically, how a two-income couple with unequal incomes and unequal spending (including unequal usage of things that run up bills) should handle their finances to minimize conflict and resentment. Their answers surprised me a little.

“In the long run, the 'yours and mine' approach to finances causes more problems than it solves.” Their approach was to pour their incomes into one shared account and communicate daily about what and how they'd spent. Their premarital counseling came in to play as well; both couples had been given workbooks to help them work out a financial arrangement. Things like “how much can your spouse spend at one time without asking your permission first?” “Who balances the checkbook?”

So to answer your question, it's the kind of thing couples are supposed to work out during premarital counseling. The impression I got is that usually one person will do most of the account managing, making sure everything is balanced and following the budget. As for “allowances,” I don't think I've heard of such a thing, but I could see it happening if they have a tight budget and they approach the matter as equal adults, not with a parent/child attitude.

Syka

2011-05-14, 09:56 AM

I'll be the main breadwinner in our household, like. I'm also going to be the one in control of finances 'cause...well...he's horrendous with it. It took two years of us dating for him to finally get a savings account, after having been burned by one before (it's a long story and not entirely his fault). It was only in the last couple months he finally was removed from a joint checking account with his ex (at my request, only because it kept getting overdrafted- not by him since he didn't use it- and I was worried how it might affect his credit or whatnot).

But we'll both have an 'allowance'. Mostly because I want us to start saving pretty much right away, and if we have a set amount each of us are allowed to use then the excess- no matter how much- will go into a separate account.

Now, an allowance can be used as a power and control mechanism. I think participants in a relationship would know the difference. It would be like if I was giving Oz just a pittance and not letting him have access to any other money but also not allowing him to work*, which would essentially make him dependent on me and very difficult to leave if he would want to.

*I'm assuming it's in a situation where control is being exercised in other manners as well, not as a standalone allowance thing. That is one thing to remember about these lists...one thing alone does not abuse make.

On terminology- I'ma go with what Zomby said and, if I get offered the job but it's incompatible, let him know personal reasons make it so that particular job is not possible at the moment.

That said, I do prefer the term partner, to be honest. But, as others have said, it does carry the connotation that my SO is a woman. So I tend to use SO or boyfriend. I've actually had at least one person from these forums PM me in confusion when I referred to Oz as my partner, trying to figure out if I was a dude or whatnot. It was kinda amusing. :)

On a funny note, pretty much all of our friends consider us married and have referenced such in the last month or so. XD

The Rose Dragon

2011-05-14, 10:03 AM

There is always the wonderful "Meine Freundin". It means both "my girlfriend / lover", and "my non-sexual, non-romantic friend who is female", but anyone who can hear it said can likely tell which one it is referring to. It is just in text that it would not be clear.

There is a Turkish word, "sevgili" that does clearly connote a long-term, romantic relationship, but it translates to "lover", which as mentioned above is used in a more shallow manner in English.

Starbuck_II

2011-05-14, 10:15 AM

Whoa, Gedonkle has competition. I think Meine Freundin is kind of pretty. Is that german?

The Rose Dragon

2011-05-14, 10:16 AM

Whoa, Gedonkle has competition. I think Meine Freundin is kind of pretty. Is that german?

It is. The male version is "Mein Freund", though it depends on the usage (whether it is used in nominative, accusative, genitive or dative).

Trog

2011-05-14, 10:24 AM

Now, an allowance can be used as a power and control mechanism. I think participants in a relationship would know the difference.
Yeah, you'd think so... but... no, they don't always know. =/

What you call it isn't as important as what it is in the end. Just come to the agreement together and discuss how happy you both are with the arrangement after it is made and I'm sure it'll be fine. :smallsmile:

Syka

2011-05-14, 10:53 AM

What you call it isn't as important as what it is in the end. Just come to the agreement together and discuss how happy you both are with the arrangement after it is made and I'm sure it'll be fine. :smallsmile:

It's more an issue of what to say if those close to me (more so than a potential employer, who can just be told it's personal reasons) when inquiring about why I don't take an otherwise good offer.

There is a stigma attached to doing/not doing something "life altering" (not taking a job, moving to a different area, etc) for a boyfriend/girlfriend that is not so attached to doing the same exact thing for a fiancée/husband/wife.

Oz and I are perfectly happy in our relationship. We both refer to each other as boy/girlfriend for lack of a better term but are also both in agreement that it is far more than that. Similar to husband/wife, but that still doesn't feel like the right term (even if we got married, it just wouldn't feel...right). Gedonkle, as it is without any pre-attached meaning, is actually quite good. "a romantic partner to whom you are not married, but are committed to each other in a similar emotional manner; see also, life partner" for all intents and purposes. :smallwink:

Alas, life partner has the same connotations as just simply partner. And yet it's meaning fits the best! Darn you, vague American terminology.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-14, 11:08 AM

Yet I can't imagine many people would go "your gedonkle does the cooking? Can't you see they're trying to control your life? You don't even get to decide what you're eating anymore!"
That's because "women can't be controlling or abusive" :smallyuk::smallyuk:

I'm against giving someone you love a budget/allowence/access to the money you make from the get go. It only leads to trouble. If they don't have money of their own and you want to give them some that's cool, but saying "You get 400 bucks a month to do with what ever." well...I certainly wouldn't ever do it. Not because it's patronizing or anything but...that's my money...you don't get a cut just because you "love" me.

I dunno. "Hey, after savings, mortgage, and all of our various other life expenses, it looks like I have a few thousand dollars left over. I opened an account for you at the bank where I'm going to deposit a thousand dollars every month, and that money's yours to do whatever you want with it. I opened another one for me where I'll do the same, and the rest will go into our main savings account and I'll keep track of it here for a group item or maybe a major vacation. How does that sound?" I'd definitely consider that if my wife was not working (which to me is her choice. My goal is to make enough that she can work or not work at her discretion.)

About "gedonkle," just so we're clear Rawhide, are you speaking Word of Mod here or just a personal opinion?

Serpentine

2011-05-14, 11:10 AM

I think it'd also be a matter of, well, being a housespouse is your job. That's your pay for your job, more or less.

And I can't help but think you're just all getting shpadoinkle (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shpadoinkle) mixed up.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-14, 11:15 AM

Heh heh... negotiating salaries and raises for my housespouse? :smallamused:

Runnin' ma family like, well, the family :smallwink:

The Rose Dragon

2011-05-14, 11:19 AM

It's not "housewife". It's "self-taught self-employed domestic management specialist".

Serpentine

2011-05-14, 11:20 AM

I said housespouse, not housewife :smalltongue: My Boy hopes someday to be a househusband.

The Rose Dragon

2011-05-14, 11:28 AM

I said housespouse, not housewife :smalltongue: My Boy hopes someday to be a househusband.

Housespouse is not a word, though. Homemaker is the sex-neutral version of housewife.

((Househusband, strangely, is a word.))

Serpentine

2011-05-14, 11:31 AM

Homemaker seems very... American. I like housespouse and intend to keep using it.

Coidzor

2011-05-14, 11:33 AM

Homemaker seems very... American. I like housespouse and intend to keep using it.

You just like the rhyme. :smalltongue:

When one partner controls all the money and the other doles it out and controls it you can bet that the non-controlling partner will begin to resent the other for it.

Plus, y'know, common (warning) signs of an abusive relationship. Or is that how it came up in the first place?

Trog

2011-05-14, 12:02 PM

Heh! "Housespouse."

It's more an issue of what to say if those close to me (more so than a potential employer, who can just be told it's personal reasons) when inquiring about why I don't take an otherwise good offer.
Ah I see. Well, when in doubt refer to your significant other by his first name and let the other person fill in the blanks I say.

Plus, y'know, common (warning) signs of an abusive relationship. Or is that how it came up in the first place?
It came up as an imbalance of power in my marriage once upon a time. I wouldn't go so far as to label the whole relationship abusive.

Mostly the imbalance happened organically. She was better at bookkeeping than I was (having been a bookkeeper herself at one point) and she preferred to be in charge of taking care of the bills and such. I, in turn, would give her the shirt off my back if she asked - I can't recall a single thing I denied her. I on the other hand got scolded if I spent even the smallest amount of cash. Say, spending $15 on a new DnD module as my one expenditure for a month's time. She had gotten so used to all the money being either "hers" or "ours" but never "mine" that things sort of grew out of hand for a little while there. It's a slippery slope if you let it be.

It's also just money and easily corrected, but it's getting used to the change that takes the time and effort. Best to expend a tiny amount here and there as you go to avoid the relationship dynamic turning into a power struggle. You'll expend the effort either way but save yourself a lot of grief by course correcting as you go before it gets to that point.

Coidzor

2011-05-14, 12:09 PM

It came up as an imbalance of power in my marriage once upon a time. I wouldn't go so far as to label the whole relationship abusive. :smalltongue: Well I was talking in the general sense.

She had gotten so used to all the money being either "hers" or "ours" but never "mine"

Y'know, I run into that in joke form so often I have to wonder at how common that is. Mostly in fear and trepidation.

Vonriel

2011-05-14, 12:54 PM

The word "allow" indicates that there is someone in control. An allowance is given to children by an adult. Calling it a budget is something that removes that whole undesirable dynamic.

This is exactly what I was trying to get at in my post, that in our society, the connotations of the words we use dictate far more about what we say than anything else. Denotation means incredibly little by comparison.

Heh, I like how Zomby assumes that the person preparing the food would be a woman. My stepdad prepared all the meals for the first few years of his and my mom's marriage. :smallwink:

Also, someone ought to start a new thread...

ZombyWoof

2011-05-14, 12:58 PM

Heh, I like how Zomby assumes that the person preparing the food would be a woman.

Citation Needed

Starbuck_II

2011-05-14, 01:07 PM

Heh, I like how Zomby assumes that the person preparing the food would be a woman. My stepdad prepared all the meals for the first few years of his and my mom's marriage. :smallwink:

To be fair, tradition does lead to woman as food preparer and man food provider.
When did Zomby say it though?

The Rose Dragon

2011-05-14, 01:09 PM

To be fair, tradition does lead to woman as food preparer and man food provider.

Tradition as well as genetic selection. Apparently, women are better at cooking because they were gatherers in hunter-gatherer societies, and thus they were selected for the specimens that could tell the details between close aromas, textures and colors.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-14, 01:10 PM

I don't really want to get into this so let me just say right now:

No, that is not true.

Adumbration

2011-05-14, 01:43 PM

If there's a girl that intrigues me, but who's fairly quiet, extremely smart (I think), a little geeky, moves in a group, comes off a little shy but is confident and dresses smartly - how would you approach her?

And if you might have had a chance to do so about 6 months ago, but were too entangled in a different affair to do so?

And if the summer vacation's just started and chances are you won't see her in 3+ months?

My cause is hopeless, I know. :smalltongue: (Feel free to ask about specifics, if you're curious - I'm a horrible explainer.)

ZombyWoof

2011-05-14, 01:44 PM

"Hey, what's your name? I'm X. I couldn't help but noticing that you're super cute, and, call me shallow if you like, but I was wondering if you wanted to maybe go get something to eat with me?"

term1nally s1ck

2011-05-14, 01:46 PM

On average, women will be better at cooking, but that's ENTIRELY down to the old outdated gender roles and the desire of young children to learn from their repective parent. More women cook -> more girls learn to cook from their mums and less boys learn to cook from their fathers.

It's equalising at the moment, but it's still biased towards women learning earlier.

ZombyWoof

2011-05-14, 01:49 PM

91% of executive chefs are male according to the Chronicle in 2007. (http://www.saveur.com/article/Kitchen/Gender-in-the-Kitchen)

There is no definitive evidence that men or women are inherently better at any particular subject at this time. Yes, yes, testscores blah blah blah but those run into a lot of problems namely that social conventions often find themselves in a catch-22: my friend is really bad at math. She's really bad at math because she has no confidence in math. She has no confidence because her 3rd grade teacher said something to the effect of "it's ok girls can't be good at math anyways."

Let's not get into "this gender is better at X" and "that gender is better at Y" because that is a) almost entirely based on speculation and b) assumes gender duality which is offensive to some.

Adumbration

2011-05-14, 01:55 PM

"Hey, what's your name? I'm X. I couldn't help but noticing that you're super cute, and, call me shallow if you like, but I was wondering if you wanted to maybe go get something to eat with me?"

That... probably would have worked about 7 months ago. Maybe. At the moment the situation is such that I know her name, she knows mine and we've done some group assignments. I know the group she moves with fairly well (and I've considered asking advice from one of them, but never had the proper combination of intoxication and right company). On the downside, there hasn't been that sort of natural chemistry that happens sometimes and I have a slight feeling that she doesn't really have a good view of me. I've blown a few very obvious chances of showing interest, due to the aforementioned entanglement. And like I said, the only possible route of communication at the moment would be facebook chat - which I haven't used to talk to her in the past year, so it would be weird to start now.

Did I mention about the hopeless causes yet? :smalltongue: