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raitalin
2011-04-04, 03:10 PM
Part 2: Magic-users, Clerics and Spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10729218#post10729218)
Part 3: Prestige Classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195922)

Notes on SAGA classes: All SAGA base classes get a talent on odd levels and a bonus feat on even levels. They progress from level 1 to level 20.

Best BAB: +1/lvl
Mid BAB: +0, +1, +2, +3, +3, +4, +5, +6, +6, +7 etc.
Low BAB: +1 at second level and every other level thereafter


Fighter

4+Int skills, d10 HD, +2 Fort, + 1 Ref, BAB +1/lvl

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Initiative, Knowledge (Tactics), Ride, Survival, Stealth

Starting Feats: WP (Simple, Melee Martial, Ranged Martial) and AP (Light, Medium)

Bonus Feats: Armor Proficiency (Heavy), Bull Rush, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Crush, Double Attack, Dreadful Rage, Dual Weapon Mastery I, II and III, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Extra Second Wind, Great Cleave, Improved Disarm, Martial Arts I, II and III, Melee Defense, Mighty Swing, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Powerful Charge, Rapid Strike, Shake it Off, Skill Training, Skill Focus, Throw, Toughness, Trip, Triple Attack, Triple Crit, Weapon Focus, Weapon Proficiency

Fighter talents

Melee Training

Crushing Blow
Prereq: Weapon Specialization (bludgeoning weapon)
Once per round when you exceed a target's damage threshold you may knock them prone.

Dual Strike I
Prereq: Two-Weapon Fighting
When wielding only either one light and one one-handed melee weapon or two light melee weapons whenever you make a single attack as a standard action with one weapon you cna make a single attack with the other weapon as a free action. Apply the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons with this attack.

Dual Strike II
Prereq: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Dual Strike I
When wielding only either one light and one one-handed melee weapon or two light melee weapons you may make a full attack as a standard action instead of a full round action, provided you attack with both weapons during the attack.

Exotic Weapons Master
Prereq: Weapon Focus (any exotic melee weapon), Weapon Specialization (any exotic melee weapon)
You treat all exotic melee weapons as a single weapon group; (exotic melee weapons). All talents and feats that you have previously specified an exotic weapon for now apply to all exotic melee weapons.

Impaling Strike
Prereq: Weapon Specialization (piercing weapon)
Once per round when you exceed a target's damage threshold with a piercing attack you may push the target back one square.

Multiattack Proficinecy (exotic or group)
Prereq: Weapon Specialization (chosen exotic or group), Weapon Focus (chosen exotic or group)
Reduce all penalties from making iterative attacks with the chosen weapon or group by 2.

Slashing Assault
Prereq: Weapon specialization (slashing weapon)
Once per round when you exceed a targets damage threshold you may give that target a -2 to all attacks and skill checks until the beginning of your next turn.

Spring Attack
Prereq: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Dual Strike II
Immediately after making a full attack where you attack with only either one light and one one-handed melee weapon or two light melee weapons you may move up to your speed as a free action.

Weapon Specialization
Prereq: Weapon Focus (chosen exotic or group)
Choose a single exotic weapon or weapon group with which you are proficient. You gain a +2 to all damage rolls with those weapons.

Brute

Berserker Rage
As a swift action you may spend an action point to gain +2 rage bonus on melee attack and damage rolls for 5 + Con modifier rounds. After this duration you take -1 CT.
While raging you may not use any Int, Wis or Cha based skills.

Extreme Effort
You may spend two swift actions to gain a +5 bonus on a single Strength-based check made during the same round.

Fight It
Prereq: Stubborn, Extreme Effort
You may ignore the effects of a single spell or effect that targets your Will Defense by spending a Force point.

Ignore Pain
Prereq: Resilient, Extreme Effort
You may spend an action point as a swift action to gain Damage Reduction 10 until the end of your next action.

Stubborn
You gain your class level as a bonus to you Will defense verus spells.

Make an Example
The first time you reduce an enemy to 0 HP during an encounter you may make a Persuasion check vs. the Will defense of every enemy within 12 squares that can see and hear you. You may use your Str. bonus for this check instead of your Cha. Any enemy whose defense you exceed takes a -1 to all attacks and skill checks until the end of the encounter.

Revenge
Prereq: Berserker Rage
Whenever one of your party members is killed or rendered unconscious you may enter you Berserker Rage without spending an action point. The attack and damage bonus from your rage increases by +2

Resiliant
You may spend an action point as a swift action to move 2 steps up the CT.

Terrifying Example
Prereq: Make an Example
As Make an example, except that any enemies whose will defense you exceed are also moved -1 step on the condition track.

Melee Smash
You deal +1 point of damage with all melee attacks.

Resounding Blow
Prereq: Melee Smash
Your successful melee attacks do +1 C if the attack roll exceeds the target's DT.

Make an Opening
Prereq: Melee Smash
Whenever you successfully damage an opponent with a melee attack you may spend an action point to make that target flat-footed until the start of your next turn.

Armor Mastery

Advanced Armor Training
Prereq: Armored Defense
You may use the higher of either your class level or armor bonus + 1/2 of the lower bonus when determining your Ref defense when wearing armor.

Armor Training
You may use either you class level or armor bonus for determining your Ref defense while wearing armor.

Armored Ease
Prereq: Armored Defense
Reduce any speed penalties from wearing armor by 1.

Armor Specialization
Prereq: Armor Training, Advanced Armor Training
Chose either Light, Medium or Heavy Armor. All Reflex and Fortitude bonuses granted to you by this type of armor are increased by 2.

Defender
Block
As a reaction you may negate a melee attack by making a successful initiative check. The DC of this skill check is equal to the result of the attack roll you wish to negate, and you take a cumulative -5 penalty on your Initiative check for every time you have used Block since the beginning of your last turn. You must have a melee weapon in your hand to use this talent, and you must be aware of the attack and not be flat-footed.

Bodyguard
Prereq: Escort, Like Glue
You may spend an action point to take any or all of the damage dealt to an adjacent ally by an attack.

Escort
You may spend a swift action to designate one adjacent ally. Until the start of your next turn if you move that target may move the same number of square provided it ends in a square adjacent to you.

Extend Block
Prereq: Escort, Block
You may use your Block talent against melee attacks targeting adjacent allies.

Get Behind Me!
Prereq: Escort, Block, Extend Block
Whenever you use Block to negate an attack against an ally that ally may immediately move up to 2 squares. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Hold the Line
Whenever you make a successful attack of opportunity against a target leaving your threatened area you stop it's movement, ending it's action.

Harrying Assault
Prereq: Hold the Line
Enemies in you threatened range get a -2 penalty to attack targets other than you.

Like Glue
Prereq: Escort
The ally you designate with your Escort talent is treated as having soft cover against all attacks.

Riposte
Prereq: Block, BAB +5
As a reaction you may spend an action point to make an immediate melee attack against an enemy whose attack you have just negated using the Block talent.

raitalin
2011-04-04, 08:50 PM
Rogue
6+Int Skills, d8 HD, +2 Ref, +1 Will, mid BAB

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Initiative, Knowledge (Politics), Mechanics, Perception, Persuasion, Stealth, Streetwise,
Starting Feats: AP (light), WP (Simple, Ranged Martial) EWP (Hand Crossbow, Sap, Whip)

Bonus Feats: Careful Shot, Deadeye, Dodge, Far Shot, Melee Defense, Mobility,Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Running Attack, Skill Focus, Skill Training, Sniper, Weapon Proficiency (martial melee)

Rogue Talents

Ranged Training

Debilitating Shot
If you aim before making a ranged attack and the attack hits you move the target -1 CT in addition to dealing damage.

Ranged Disarm
Prereq: Ranged Flank
You can disarm an opponent using a ranged attack. If your ranged disarm fails the opponent does not get a free attacka gianst you.

Improved Aim
When you aim you may add your Dexterity modifier to the damage roll.

Improved Rapid Shot
You take no penalty when using the Rapid Shot feat

Multiattack Proficiency (any ranged)
Prereq: Weapon Specialization
Whenever you make iterative attacks witha ranged weapon, reduce the penalty on your attack rolls by 2.

Kneecap
Prereq: Debilitating Shot
If you successfully use debilitating shot, until the target move to its normal spot on the condition track its speed is reduced by 2 sqares and it is considered flat-footed.

Ranged Flank
If you are within 6 sqaures of a target and armed witha ranged weapon you can act as thoguh you occupied the nearest square adjacent to the target for the purposes of determining flanking for you and your allies.

Weapon Specialization
Prereq: Weapon Focus (chosen exotic or group)
Choose a single ranged exotic weapon or the (martial ranged) weapon group with which you are proficinet. You gain a +2 to all damage rolls with those weapons.


Silver Tongue

Disruptive
By spending two swift actions you may supress all morale and insight bonuses applied to enemies within your line of sight.

Mockery
Prereq: Disruptive
Make a Persuasion check as a standard action against a single opponent that can see and hear you. If your check exceeds their will defense they take a -2 to base speed and must spend their swift action if they spend a standard action. This penalty lasts until the start of your next turn.

Goad
Prereq: Mockery
If the subject of you Mockery makes a move action they must end their turn closer to you than they started.

Fast Talker
Once per day you may take a 20 on a Persuasion check as a standard action

Notorious
When you are not disguised, you may reroll any Persuasion check, but you must accept the second result even if it is worse.

Talk Down
Prereq: Fast Talker
As a standard action you may make a Persuasion check agianst the Will defense of a target with an Int of 3 or greater that can see, hear and understand you. The target gets a +5 bonus if it is higher level than you. If you exceed its defense it moves -1 step on the CT. If it is reduced to 0 on the track it is not rendered unconcious, but may not attack you or your allies for the remainder of the encounter unless you attack it or it's allies first.

Skilled Negotiator
Prereq: Talk Down
You may talk down as a move action and move the target -2 CT on a successful Persuasion check.

Group Negotiations
Prereq: Talk Down
When you use your Talk Down ability you may spend a Force point to have it effect all enemies within 6 squares.

Acrobat

Dash
Your speed increses by 2 squares as long as you are wearing light or no armor.

Flee
Prereq: Dash
When you make a Withdrawal action you may move up to your speed and must clear all threatened areas with your first 2 squares of movement.

Freerunning
Prereq: Dash, Quick Leap
Your movement is not slowed by difficult terrain. In addition, when you use the run action you may move up to five times your speed.

Quick Leap
If an effect casues you to fall prone you can make a DC 20 Acrobatics check to remain standing.

Elusive Target
Prereq: Uncanny Dodge I
When fighting at least one opponent in melee other opponents suffer a -5 penalty to ranged attacks against you.

Uncanny Dodge I
You retain your Dex bonus to your Reflex defense regardless of being flat-footed or being struck by a hidden attacker. You still lose your Dex bonus when immobilized.

Uncanny Dodge II
Prereq: Uncanny Dodge I
You cannot be flanked.

Evasion
Prereq: Quick Leap
You take half damage when hit by an area attack. You take no damage if the attack misses.

Lurker

Backstab
Whenever you make a successful attack against an opponent who is denied its dexterity the target moves -1 CT.

Stealthy
You may choose to reroll any Stealth check, but must take the result even if it is worse.

Silent Running
Prereq: Stealthy
You take no penalty to your stealth check when moving at normal speed.

Sneak Attack
Any time your opponent is flat-footed or denied it's Dex bonus to Reflex defense you may deal an extra 1d6 points of damage. you must be within 6 squares of a target to make a sneak attack with a ranged weapon.
You may select this talent multiple times, each time gaining an additional 1d6 damage.

Improved Concealment
Prereq: Stealthy, Hidden Movement
Any situation that would give you concealment gives you total concealment instead

Hide in Plain Sight
Prereq: Stealthy, Hidden Movement
Once per encounter, when you are withing 2 squares of concealment or cover you can move to that cover or concealment and make a Stealth check to hide as a move action.

Weakening Strike
Prereq: Backstab or Sneak attack
Instead of moving the target of your backstab down the condition track or dealing extra damage with your sneak attack you may give it -5 to attacks and melee damage until the start of your next turn.

Opportunist
Prereq: Backstab or Sneak Attack
Once per turn you may treat any foe you are flanking as flat-footed for a single attack.

Hamstring
Prereq: Backstab or Sneak Attack
Instead of moving the target of your backstab down the condition track or dealing extra damage with your sneak attack you may reduce its speed to 2 until the start of your next turn.

Kilbourne
2011-04-04, 08:56 PM
Is this... d20 Star Wars style classes for D&D? If so, colour me interested. Please continue.

DualShadow
2011-04-04, 11:22 PM
Great idea. You got my interest.

BladeTempest
2011-04-05, 11:52 AM
could some one please explain to me how this system is supposed to work because i am not understanding the "display"

Dienekes
2011-04-05, 12:03 PM
Based off Saga edition (great game by the way, largely considered the best mix between 3.5 and 4e)

In general, at first level you pick your skills you will have maxed out. Fighters get 4+ Int from their list in Class Skills. All those picked get a +5 bonus to them and are considered trained, and all skills get +1/2 your level. This is so that you can still focus on skills that you want to be good at, but wont be left behind in situations you aren't specked for.

HD is largely the same, except at 1st level you start with 3XHD+ Con.

Instead of Reflex, Will, Fortitude saves you have defenses. They work largely the same except they're a static number and you add your class bonus to them.

The major differences with them to worry about is that Reflex also is your AC score, and Fortitude is also your Damage Threshold. Which is how much damage you can take before you get weakened a bit.

Then you get into your levels. Ever class follows this pattern per levels:
Level 1: Starting Feats, Skills, Defense bonuses, Talent from the talent trees of the class
Level 2: Feat from the class list
Level 3: Talent from the talent trees of the class
Level 4: Feat from the class list

and so forth.

This allows you to focus on just about anything in an easily modular way. So long as you have the prereqs of the talent (generally all prereqs are feats, skills, or other weaker talents from the same talent tree).

SW Saga is a great system and definitely worth checking out if you're interested.

As for this homebrew, not bad. I was doing one of these myself, but never really planned to post it. If you're looking for ideas on other classes just PM me and I'll send what I have over.

Knaight
2011-04-05, 05:06 PM
A few notes:

Armor might need to change entirely, as the way SAGA does it deliberately encourages rare armor to stick with the setting. For fantasy, that may not be such a good idea.

The fighter has no real ranged option. If that goes to another class, then there is no issue, worst comes to worst one might have to multiclass, which should probably be painless if this ends up at all like SAGA.

raitalin
2011-04-06, 04:48 AM
Is this... d20 Star Wars style classes for D&D? If so, colour me interested. Please continue.

Sort of. Think of it as the lost 4th edition D&D, using the core rules of the SWSAGA system.


A few notes:

Armor might need to change entirely, as the way SAGA does it deliberately encourages rare armor to stick with the setting. For fantasy, that may not be such a good idea.

The fighter has no real ranged option. If that goes to another class, then there is no issue, worst comes to worst one might have to multiclass, which should probably be painless if this ends up at all like SAGA.

Good point on the armor. Not sure how it will really play out until playtesting but my thinking is that the system rewards focusing on armor while it doesn't overly penalize it's absence. Ideally I want the highest Ref in the party to be the heavily-armored Fighter, and for that Ref to be a challenge to hit.

And the ranged option is going on the Rogue. I originally had it on the fighter, but had more fighter feats than I wanted and not enough attack-focused Rogue talents.

T.G. Oskar
2011-04-19, 08:56 PM
Shouldn't the format be (example given for Fighter):

FIGHTER
{TABLE=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Class Features
1st|+1|Starting Feats, Skills, Defense Bonus, Talent
2nd|+2|Bonus Feat
3rd|+3|Talent
4th|+4|Bonus Feat
5th|+5|Talent
6th|+6|Bonus Feat
7th|+7|Talent
8th|+8|Bonus Feat
9th|+9|Talent
10th|+10|Bonus Feat[/TABLE]

Class Features
Class Skills
(4+Int trained skills) Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Initiative, Knowledge (Tactics), Ride, Survival, Stealth

Hit Points
d10 + Constitution modifier

Starting Defenses
Fortitude +2, Reflex +1

Starting Feats
Armor Proficiency (Light, Medium) and Weapon Proficiency (Simple, Melee Martial, Ranged Martial)

--

That's as best as I can recall them. Talents and Bonus Feats are presented in the same way you presented them.

Also, a few questions: Do you start with full HP + Con modifier at 1st level? Three times the maximum amount of your HD plus your Con modifier? One would be the 3.5 D&D version, the other would be the SAGA treatment on HP. IIRC, SAGA Edition has Wound Points so you get lots of Vitality Points in exchange (or is it just confusing it with SWd20 RPG?)

Is there a difference between the trained skills from SAGA Edition and those from 4E, or is it the same? Might want to clear that for all those who might only know about 3.5.

Also; is there a chance a few classes get extra abilities aside from Talents and Bonus Feats?. Just doing a cursory check on the Jedi, and they get an extra ability to create their own lightsaber at around 5th level, so maybe the Fighter or the Rogue (or the Cleric and Magic-User) gain an extra benefit later on. Ideally, most of the class abilities are covered in the Talents (that's why the Talent tree on SAGA Edition exists), but just pointing something that might seem out of place.

Finally; any attempt to tackle other systems? Psionics, for example?

raitalin
2011-04-20, 03:44 AM
Also, a few questions: Do you start with full HP + Con modifier at 1st level? Three times the maximum amount of your HD plus your Con modifier? One would be the 3.5 D&D version, the other would be the SAGA treatment on HP. IIRC, SAGA Edition has Wound Points so you get lots of Vitality Points in exchange (or is it just confusing it with SWd20 RPG?)

Is there a difference between the trained skills from SAGA Edition and those from 4E, or is it the same? Might want to clear that for all those who might only know about 3.5.

Also; is there a chance a few classes get extra abilities aside from Talents and Bonus Feats?. Just doing a cursory check on the Jedi, and they get an extra ability to create their own lightsaber at around 5th level, so maybe the Fighter or the Rogue (or the Cleric and Magic-User) gain an extra benefit later on. Ideally, most of the class abilities are covered in the Talents (that's why the Talent tree on SAGA Edition exists), but just pointing something that might seem out of place.

Finally; any attempt to tackle other systems? Psionics, for example?

I didn't do table because they take up a lot of space and don't tell you much, since aside from the BAB all the progressions are the same.

Starting HP in DnDSAGA, like SWSAGA, is max HP + Con. mod X 3. I'll change the entries to reflect as much here shortly. Vitality/Wounds is the old SWRCR system. SAGA has only HP and the Condition Track.

Trained skills work the same as in 4e. All skills advance at +1/2 character level, trained skills get an additional +5. Unlike SWSAGA Skill Focus is scaling (+2 at 1st, +4 at 7th, +6 at 13th) to prevent Spellcasting and Devotion checks from getting out of hand.

Not really looking at additional abilities. The Jedi's lightsaber building is barely a class feature as-is, since you only have to be 7th level and a Jedi to do it, not necessarily a 7th level Jedi. No other SWSAGA base classes have special abilities other than Talents and feats.

Not thinking about PSionics much, since I tried to keep the content here very traditional. With the Spells already being scalable and augmentable with action points, I'm not sure what niche Psions would fill. As of right now, I'd say make a Magic-User and call it a Psion, which is part of the reason I named it Magic-User, so the power source could be whatever the player desires.