Disarm Optimization?

[Aemoh87]

Is there a thread about this already? If there is please link it, if not then it begins now.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well AFAICR, Disarm didn't get much splat love, so other than improved trip and using a two-handed weapon that gives bonus to disarm (I can't remember exactly but I am sure it exists in some splat book).

I don't remember but if size increases gives you bonus to disarm, it might be worthwhile to look into them (expansion would be the best option I think).

Also at higher level most enemies you will be facing won't be using disarmable weapons, since most of them rely on natural attacks, so that is something to take into account.

[Zaq]

Blah blah obligatory comment that disarming is a very limited tactic blah blah.

Disarming is an opposed attack roll, is it not? Pretty much anything that beefs up your to-hit will work. A Duskblade who runs around popping True Strikes and disarming his opponents would be interesting, to say the least. A sorcerer doing it with his quarterstaff would be even funnier.

Similarly, anything that penalizes a foe's attack roll will penalize their ability to resist. All the standard debuffs (shaken, sickened, entangled, etc.) would apply here. (Yes, this does mean that throwing a Tanglefoot Bag at someone, thus covering them in glue, makes it easier to knock their weapon out of their hand. Welcome to D&D.)

[Aemoh87]

This is kinda a big bummer, but yeah I will prolly just use a true strike item.

[Whammydill]

Check out the Flindbar from the Flind entry in the MM3. Exotic weapon, allows a free disarm on a crit threat. Does 2d4, 19-20x2 I believe.

[Aemoh87]

I am amazed there isn't any items that add a bonus to disarm higher than +2... that is depressing. It is the forgotten younger brother in the Grapple, Trip, Sunder family.

[erikun]

The Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415), using a Ranseur (instead of a Guisarme) and Improved Disarm (instead of Improved Trip) would be a good place to start. That's a +10 bonus to your roll right there: +4 for a large weapon, +2 from the Ranseur, and +4 from the feat. Obviously, variants that give Improved Trip for free won't be useful.

[balistafreak]

There is a Steel Wind (aka Warblade only) lower-level Tome of Battle maneuver that, as a standard action attack, whacks your target as normal. If successful, you immediately get a disarm attempt, and they don't get to try to disarm you back if you fail.

Also, the Flindbar, an exotic weapon. I forget the exact details but you get free disarm attempts with every critical threat, which again cannot be "countered".

[Zaq]

I am amazed there isn't any items that add a bonus to disarm higher than +2... that is depressing. It is the forgotten younger brother in the Grapple, Trip, Sunder family.


Step 2

Opposed Rolls. You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons. The wielder of a two-handed weapon on a disarm attempt gets a +4 bonus on this roll, and the wielder of a light weapon takes a -4 penalty. (An unarmed strike is considered a light weapon, so you always take a penalty when trying to disarm an opponent by using an unarmed strike.) If the combatants are of different sizes, the larger combatant gets a bonus on the attack roll of +4 per difference in size category. If the targeted item isn’t a melee weapon, the defender takes a -4 penalty on the roll.

Plenty of +4 weapons out there.

As for it being the forgotten brother, Overrun says hello.

[Aemoh87]

Overrun was aborted shortly after it's conception.

[erikun]

Overrun is what would happen if you put Improved Trip under Power Attack... and completely forget its existance before the final document was even printed.

But yeah, a standard +2 two-handed weapon is really a +6. Increase that to +10 with the feat and +14 if you can become Enlarged by yourself or a friendly ally. That should be handy for disarming nearly anything you run across, even giants. (Titans or larger though, probably not.)

[Dusk Eclipse]

There is a Steel WindDisarming Strike (aka Warblade onlyAvailable to anyone of level 6 or higher who burns a feat on Martial Study: Disarming Strike) lower-level Tome of Battle maneuver that, as a standard action attack, whacks your target as normal. If successful, you immediately get a disarm attempt, and they don't get to try to disarm you back if you fail.

Also, the Flindbar, an exotic weapon. I forget the exact details but you get free disarm attempts with every critical threat, which again cannot be "countered".

Fixed that for you :smallwink:

[faceroll]

As opposed attack roles, anything that pumps to hit will greatly benefit you. I recommend the half-minotaur template and bite of the werebear.

[aboyd]

Ranged Disarm feat in Complete Warrior is cool.

I had a bad guy with a "right hand man" who was an 11th level fighter with Rapid Shot and Quick Draw. In a single round, at his lord's command, he could fling 4 daggers and disarm 4 different PCs.

When I put him up against the PCs at 6th level, he succeeded at disarming 3 of 4 PCs in the first round, before any of them had made a move. It was *awesome* and 100% by the book, far as I can tell. So much fun.

I wish there was a spell that involved magnetism, so after disarming everyone, I could have had a spellcaster pull all their unattended weapons away. That would have been great.

[NNescio]

Ranged Disarm feat in Complete Warrior is cool.

I had a bad guy with a "right hand man" who was an 11th level fighter with Rapid Shot and Quick Draw. In a single round, at his lord's command, he could fling 4 daggers and disarm 4 different PCs.

When I put him up against the PCs at 6th level, he succeeded at disarming 3 of 4 PCs in the first round, before any of them had made a move. It was *awesome* and 100% by the book, far as I can tell. So much fun.

I wish there was a spell that involved magnetism, so after disarming everyone, I could have had a spellcaster pull all their unattended weapons away. That would have been great.

Servant horde instructed to pick up any dropped weapons?

Alternatively, Telekinesis: Violent Thrust.

[Zaq]

Ranged Disarm feat in Complete Warrior is cool.

I had a bad guy with a "right hand man" who was an 11th level fighter with Rapid Shot and Quick Draw. In a single round, at his lord's command, he could fling 4 daggers and disarm 4 different PCs.

When I put him up against the PCs at 6th level, he succeeded at disarming 3 of 4 PCs in the first round, before any of them had made a move. It was *awesome* and 100% by the book, far as I can tell. So much fun.

I wish there was a spell that involved magnetism, so after disarming everyone, I could have had a spellcaster pull all their unattended weapons away. That would have been great.

Check out the Wu Jen spell list. It has a spell called Magnetism, and it does exactly what you think it does. It's also pretty good for disarming in its own right.

[aboyd]

Check out the Wu Jen spell list. It has a spell called Magnetism, and it does exactly what you think it does. It's also pretty good for disarming in its own right.
That is excellent. Exactly what I'd want. Thank you!

[Amiria]

I wish there was a spell that involved magnetism, so after disarming everyone, I could have had a spellcaster pull all their unattended weapons away. That would have been great.

Ghorus Toth's Magnetism; Sor/Wiz 6 (Transmutation); Source: Unapproachable East

[NNescio]

That is excellent. Exactly what I'd want. Thank you!

Here's a similar spell. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20021011a)

[Marnath]

Doesn't the Crescent Moon weapon style feat give you a free disarm whenever you hit with both your sword and your dagger in a round?

[Amiria]

Here's a similar spell. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20021011a)

That spell is Ghorus Toth's Magnetism. Sirellyn is a spell thief !

[aboyd]

Doesn't the Crescent Moon weapon style feat give you a free disarm whenever you hit with both your sword and your dagger in a round?
Yeah, that's from Complete Warrior, and it does grant a free disarm. It has a boatload of prerequisites, though.

[ericgrau]

Two handed flail for +6. Improved disarm. Locked gauntlets to stop the responsive disarm in case of failure. Size bonuses: get large for a +4 per size category.

Ya it's a limited technique but extremely effective against important humanoid opponents (just kill the mooks tho). Great if your DM likes to use lots of NPCs or things with class levels or outsiders rather than pulling random monsters out of the monster manual, usually with less plot relevance. I mean most things that talk and build things and hatch plans have opposable thumbs, so really it depends on the campaign style.

Even if you don't face a lot of humanoids/outsiders/etc. it's a good technique to use now and then against things with a lousy attack bonus, no melee weapon (ranged weapon, wands, staffs, spell component pouch, holy symbol, campaign macguffin, etc., etc.), or if you have a good AC to stop the AoO. I mean you don't put any feat or other resources into it, but if you see a juicy target you can successfully use it anyway. i.e., here the optimal thing is to not optimize for it but still use it now and then.

[ffone]

Blah blah obligatory comment that disarming is a very limited tactic blah blah.

Disarming is an opposed attack roll, is it not? Pretty much anything that beefs up your to-hit will work. A Duskblade who runs around popping True Strikes and disarming his opponents would be interesting, to say the least. A sorcerer doing it with his quarterstaff would be even funnier.

Similarly, anything that penalizes a foe's attack roll will penalize their ability to resist. All the standard debuffs (shaken, sickened, entangled, etc.) would apply here. (Yes, this does mean that throwing a Tanglefoot Bag at someone, thus covering them in glue, makes it easier to knock their weapon out of their hand. Welcome to D&D.)


Why's that illogical? Footwork is a major part of fencing. Limiting someone's lower body will limit their arm maneuvers. For example by somehow 'pulling' or 'pushing' on their weapon you might could force them to either let go or be overbalanced or have their legs twisted painfully.

[Veyr]

Yes, but if you actually throw the bag at them, you kind of expect some of the glue to get on their weapon and actively prevent it from being removed from their hand.