Need help with a 9th level character build

[SlyVenom]

Here is some background.
In one of the games I play I have a DM who is a character killer.
I think only one character has possibly not died, we have had a few that have been resurrected, more than once. I have had 4 characters killed already and am getting a bit frustrated.
I love D&D, but when 2+ characters get killed a game it stops being as fun.
We play 3.5, I have 9 levels to work with and psionics are banned by the dm.
My monk/ranger survived the most, but he really hates monks, so he built a cheap enemy to sneak attack and one shot me.
If I can't come up with a more un-killable character I am going to have to withdraw from his games.
I looked at troll, but the la is bad. I already played a necropoliton wizard as well as a dwarf paladin (he didn't last a full session).

Any suggestions you could give me would be appreciated, if you need more info please ask.

[Kylarra]

Have you tried talking to the DM? Any build we give you can be fiat-killed.

[SlyVenom]

He thinks he is being an "old-school dm" since his first dm was a character killer.
He tends to favor characters that lean towards Blasters, Brick/Tanks and Slashers.
He doesn't like rogues, monks, or any variations on those. And he banned psionics outright.
We fight devils, demons and undead mostly, with the occasional dragon.
Oh my rolls for this character are 18, 18, 16, 16, 15, 10. Not sure if that helps.

[Amiria]

I'd put the highest scores into attributes that modify saving throws. How about Cloistered Cleric with a bit Prestige Paladin going into Divine Oracle ? Competent cleric casting with outstanding saves and evasion.

Str 10, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 15, Wis 18, Cha 16

But you said you already had a Paladin, maybe another class that gets Divine Grace or something akin to it. If Tome of Battle is allowed, Crusaders are pretty resilent. Crusader / Cloistered Cleric / Ruby Knight Vindicator.

Str 18, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 16.

For both builds I'd recommend to go unarmored with a Monk's Belt.

[dextercorvia]

What are your sources?

[Gavinfoxx]

So this is an overtly player vs dm game?

You do know that 3.xe isn't optimal for that sort of thing, being not designed for it?

That sort of thing works best when EVERYONE, DM and players, have a more limited toolkit, like Hackmaster...

But, what books do you have access to?

What house rules are in play?

[SlyVenom]

Thanks, but we already have 2 clerics in our party.

So I guess I should have given the rest of the party so we can fill the gap.
We have:
1 Halfling Wizard Blaster
1 Gray Dwarf Cleric
1 Human Cleric
1 Feral Gargun Mineral Warrior Tank/Slasher
1 Elf Warblade
and
3 characters that died and need to make new characters before next game
(2 of the dead characters were Spellcasters and 1 was a Ranger)

[SlyVenom]

Any official sourcebooks are go, no d20 supplements, usually. (He has made exceptions to this rule if a valid case can be argued)
He's a nice guy, but he likes killing pcs.
No real house rules, except the ban on psionics, he said he doesn't know enough about them to allow them.

[Gavinfoxx]

How are the clerics being played? As full on unstoppable C-zillas, or just healbots?

Any idea what class the feral is?

What class was the spellcaster?

Looks like the wizard isn't being played optimally. Is anyone focusing on battlefield control?

Also, are you willing to talk to any of us via im chat or anything? I sent you a PM.

[TurtleKing]

One of the the most unkillable classes is the Knight. That does not mean can't die just harder to kill.

The job of the DM and players is for everyone to have fun. Failure to do so is to see your role as either a player or DM go through a "NO GAMING" slump.

If I was in your shoes I would leave. If he thinks he has done well in driving me off then I will steal his players away from him killing his DMing career. But that would be the me being a nice guy who nukes the offender once push too far.

Edit: Do you mean killing characters or players?:eek: If the first then have his rear carted off to prison.

[Gavinfoxx]

Knight...? Unkillable...? riiiight....

AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE edit your posts so that you aren't using "players", "characters" and "player characters" interchangeably! big pet peeve..

[dextercorvia]

Archivist going Trollblooded and Favored of the Martyr is immune to a lot (including damage) for short times. FotM is unfortunately not persistable. Veil of Undeath is the superior choice, but is eighth level.

[Teln]

I am noticing a distinct lack of druids on that list. With that said, put an 18 in Wisdom, take 9 levels in druid, take the Natural Spell feat, take a bear animal companion, and get used to spamming Summon Nature's Ally. BEARS EVERYWHERE!

[McSmack]

you could always try a pixie. They're hard to hit if you even manage to see them. Small size + Improved Invisibility at will + Fly. Pixie warlocks are pretty sweet.

There are a lot of builds we could suggest. But honestly it doesn't sound like a character problem it sounds like a DM problem. The DM should (pretty much) never make enemies for the sole purpose of one shotting your characters.

[Amiria]

Crusader 7 / Fighter 2 ? Fighter for feats and to delay the IL so that the 2nd stance can be already 5th level. Unless you want a lower level stance like Thicket of Blades.

But even then those two bonus feats would be useful for a Reach / Trip build (Thicket of Blades !).

Str 18, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 16.

Wis 10 won't be so bad if you take Endurance + Steadfast Determination (PHB2).

Assuming a human = 7 feats (1 race, 4 level, 2 fighter)

Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Endurance
Extra Granted Maneuver
Improved Trip
Power Attack
Steadfast Determination

[SlyVenom]

Sorry about that, I meant to type pcs not players. He wouldn't kill players. :O

[Rebel7284]

For pure survivability:
Race: Dragonborn Mongrelfolk
Ranger 3/Stoneblessed[Dwarf 3]/Deepwarden 2/Fist of the Forest 1

Take that feat that adds Con bonus to Will saves instead of Wis.

Enjoy being unkillable but not particularly powerful.
-----------------------------
Alternatively: Play an optimized caster.
The druid suggestion is great (Check out Greenbound Summining).
Divine Metamagic Cleric is great as well.
Wizards can get Mindsight via Mindbender and Abrupt Jaunt as well as Celerity to survive.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The most unkillable thing I can think of would be a Fiend of Possession, from the Fiend Folio, which constantly has something possessed. Your character will be outright immune to damage and most spell effects, as they would affect whomever or whatever you're possessing instead. Even if whatever you're possessing is destroyed, your character will be ethereal and capable of immediately possessing something else nearby. If you can take Leadership you could have a tough melee cohort and possess him to give him buffs and magical weapon bonuses. Here's how I'd go about doing it:

Savage Progression Tiefling or Aasimar (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a), you can delay spending a level on the +1 LA (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) indefinitely, promising to take it when your level is over nine thousand. That's the Outsider creature type for +0 LA.

Use the Ritual of Alignment from Savage Species page 148. It will require some backstory, probably a previously evil alignment, and at standard rates 56,000 gp and 2,240 xp. That gives you the evil subtype thus fulfilling the race prerequisite of Fiend of Possession. Note that there is no evil alignment requirement, your character could have been redeemed and be taking exalted feats without losing access to the class.

You'll also need Hide and Kn: Arcana 6 ranks, and a +5 base Will save. Something like Monk 2/ Wizard 1/ Fiend of Possession 6 would be suitable. Your outsider type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType) grants proficiency in all martial weapons, so be sure to pick up Combat Casting to take future levels in Abjurant Champion. Use either Carmendine Monk or Kung-Fu Genius to use Int instead of Wis for your Monk class features. Practiced Spellcaster is highly recommended. You can use personal-range buffs like Shield on whoever you're possessing, and you should specialize in Conjuration to get Abrupt Jaunt from PH2. Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) can get you something like Improved Initiative or Power Attack in place of Scribe Scroll. For your Monk feats I'd get Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes, since you can possess and animate up to colossal objects including a body of water or a pile of sand.

Note that if you possess and animate a noncontinuous object and it takes damage, you could just deanimate it and let it return to its natural state, then reanimate it and it would be back to a new, fully healed animated object. Your Magic Item ability can be used on its natural attacks, and your Ally or Enemy ability can give it +4 to all of its ability scores. An animated object uses the ability scores, BAB, and saving throws given for its size in the Monster Manual, so with a colossal animated object you could deliver unarmed strikes at +24 BAB. I'd make all of the natural weapons each +1, Wounding, Marrowcrushing (BoVD) to deal two Con damage per hit. Using Flurry of Blows in a colossal animated object at Str 32 via Ally or Enemy, your attacks would be as follows: +1 Wounding Marrowcrushing Unarmed Strike primary +26/+26/+21/+16/+11 melee, 4d6+12 plus 1 Con damage bleeding plus 1 Con untyped; +1 Wounding Marrowcrushing Slam secondary +21 melee, 4d6+6 plus 1 Con bleeding plus 1 Con untyped. You would get your Monk AC bonus, +12 natural, -8 size, -1 dex, plus Shield and/or Mage Armor if you cast it. When possessing a body of fluid such as water or sand, you can move through narrow corridors and even through a crack under a door. You could even possess and animate a dead body, which would be treated as an animated object of its size, and benefit from any gear it's wearing.

[erikun]

How much cheese do you think your DM is likely to accept? After all, there is little reason to recommend a full Druid turned into a bear wearing a Monk's Belt when the DM is highly likely to throw ten of the same back at the party.

It does look like you could use some battlefield control in your party. Perhaps a shadowcraft mage? Whisper Gnome Illusionist (Gnome substitution) 5/Shadowcrafter 2/Shadowcraft Mage allows you to cast illusions as shadow illusion spells when applying Heighten Spell, meaning that they are quasi-real and deal real damage when they hit (including if they are saved against). The Gnome substitution grants you Silent Image as a cantrip, among other things, meaning you can Heighten it to 1st level (or higher) for the equilivant of low level Shadow Conjuration/Evocation.

There's a lot of cheese you can apply as well, not the least of which could include Illusion Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants), effectively eliminating the need of a spellbook by allowing you to memorize every single illusion spell you become familiar with. You may not be able to use the Gnome Illusionist substitution variant and the Illusion Mastery substitution variant on the same character, though, depending on your DM.

The Gnome Illusionist substitution is from Races of Stone, the same place that Shadowcraft Mage is from.

[Firechanter]

Remember, you have a really beautiful set of stats there, so you can go MAD. ^^

However: I have the impression that the tougher and more impressive the character is, the more hell-bent this DM will be set to kill him. But if that is true, that also implies that the DM doesn't have much of a clue about the _real_ (im)balance of D&D, given that his hatred for Monks stems from him thinking they are "too powerful". He probably also thinks that Sneak Attack is overpowered, if you get my drift.

Try making a class that the DM considers "not overpowered" There are two Clerics already in the party, but how about a Druid? Sure, "Doubt not the power of the Druid, for he is mighty", but maybe this DM doesn't know that.

[SlyVenom]

Thanks for the help!
Yeah, these stats are the best I have ever rolled, so I am trying not to waste them on something that will die, usually I roll sub-par.

[faceroll]

Be a hatchling Phaerimm from Lost Empires of Faerun. I think you can get ninth level sorcerer spells by level 9 with that race. You also cast your spells without verbal, somatic, or material components.

Less cheesy would be using Greenbound Summoning on a druid from the same book. Turns your summons into plants, gives them huge stat boosts, and at will entangle and wall of thorns 3/day. Summon nature's ally 1 some wolves and spam battlefield control everywhere. Lock everything up.

Then of course you're a druid with a monk's belt on and luminous armor with bite of the werebear up, in bear morph, for ludicrous armor.

Use Natural Bond, Wild Cohort and a Warbeast Fleshraker for an animal companion that has pounce, 4 or 5 attacks, more HD than anyone in the party, and a cool trip ability. Basically you get a pet fighter. Pick up that feat from PHB2 that lets you share spells at longer range, so now your companion can share stuff like bite of the werebear with you.

[graeylin]

personally, i would just toss together a standard fighter, with no bells or whistles. wouldn't put any time into it either... call him Bob or something.
Use an axe. Beat doors with the axe. kill bartenders with the axe. break chests with the axe. eventually, the DM will kill you, but hey, you didn't put any effort into Bob, so you really didn't lose anything.

and the DM got what he deserved..a PC with no thought, originality, or care.

if I put time into my PC, then I expect the DM to put time into the game world around it, and not just try to kill it. The DM controls the world... period. It's impossible to create something in his world he cannot kill, and if the DM is set on killing everything I make, then up his, here's Bob. Kill him. Then I will make Bob Jr. and Bobby. and Bobby Jr. Kill all you want, I can make more.

It's time to get a new DM.

[Wulan]

hiya,

If your DM is allowing 3.0 books you have quite a few options for survivability. Combining "Vow of Poverty" (Book of Exalted Deeds) with the Forsaker class (Masters of the Wild) , while feat-intensive, allows for a 9th level (any 3/Forsaker 6) character with:
- a CON of 28 (18, +2 from the vow, +6 from the 6 levels of Forsaker, +2 from you bonus stat increases at 4th and 8th level),
- an armor class of dex+27 (10+7 exalted+1 deflect(both VoP) +9 natural (con bonus, Forsaker. VoP has an additional +1 na but I don't think that stacks),
-+12 to Fort (from your con bonus, the required feat for Forsaker and a blanket +1 to saves from VoP)
- Spell resistance of 16 (that stacks with other SR for some reason)
- Damage resistance of 7/+3 (3.0 rules)
- +1 to attack
- a few more nifty bonuses, including but not limited to fast healing.

The high armor class, the very high Fort saves and the incredibly high amount of hit points allow you to survive nearly anything that gets thrown at you for cr9. If you get uncanny dodge at your first three levels you stop a lot of precise striking in your direction.
If the GM was to allow any of the required Forsaker feats as fighter feats you could have enough left to get Steadfast Determination for a con boost to will.
Monk, Barbarian, and Ninja are all excellent classes for your first three levels. Ninja and Monk up your armor class by a bit more (but they don't stack with each other) while Barb can kick your con up another notch by raging. Barbarian 2/Ninja 1/ Forsaker 6
Get disguise/bluff, a commoners garb and roleplay your way into pretending to be an unassuming member of the party's entourage.

Or integrate a bit of Fist of the Forest into it by going Fighter 2/Monk (overwhelming attack variant)1/Forsaker2/Fist of the Forest 1/Forsaker (again) 3
You lose out on a level of Forsaker but gain the FotF's con-bonus-to-ac class ability. You now end up with:

- Str 18 Dex 16 Con 27 Int 15 Wis 16 Cha 10, Fort 22 Wil 10 Ref 9, AC 40, Bab +8/+3, DR 5/+2, SR 15, 1d6+3d10+5d12+72 HP

You end up with a character able to take a big chunk of punishment, and generally unable to kill anything quickly... Or even hit it once if the opponent is flying or invisible.


If your GM has a good sense of humor try bringing an actual block of cheese to the gaming table. You'll get both a laugh and a good snack. I also like Graeylins' "Bob", genuinely.

[dspeyer]

Sounds like the party has no skillmonkey. How about a Factotum 4/Swordsage 5? It's a little MAD, but you can handle that. Good defenses if you need them, but best is to not be seen at all.

[faceroll]

hiya,

If your DM is allowing 3.0 books you have quite a few options for survivability. Combining "Vow of Poverty" (Book of Exalted Deeds) with the Forsaker class (Masters of the Wild) , while feat-intensive, allows for a 9th level (any 3/Forsaker 6) character with:
- a CON of 28 (18, +2 from the vow, +6 from the 6 levels of Forsaker, +2 from you bonus stat increases at 4th and 8th level),
- an armor class of dex+27 (10+7 exalted+1 deflect(both VoP) +9 natural (con bonus, Forsaker. VoP has an additional +1 na but I don't think that stacks),
-+12 to Fort (from your con bonus, the required feat for Forsaker and a blanket +1 to saves from VoP)
- Spell resistance of 16 (that stacks with other SR for some reason)
- Damage resistance of 7/+3 (3.0 rules)
- +1 to attack
- a few more nifty bonuses, including but not limited to fast healing.

The high armor class, the very high Fort saves and the incredibly high amount of hit points allow you to survive nearly anything that gets thrown at you for cr9. If you get uncanny dodge at your first three levels you stop a lot of precise striking in your direction.
If the GM was to allow any of the required Forsaker feats as fighter feats you could have enough left to get Steadfast Determination for a con boost to will.
Monk, Barbarian, and Ninja are all excellent classes for your first three levels. Ninja and Monk up your armor class by a bit more (but they don't stack with each other) while Barb can kick your con up another notch by raging. Barbarian 2/Ninja 1/ Forsaker 6
Get disguise/bluff, a commoners garb and roleplay your way into pretending to be an unassuming member of the party's entourage.

Or integrate a bit of Fist of the Forest into it by going Fighter 2/Monk (overwhelming attack variant)1/Forsaker2/Fist of the Forest 1/Forsaker (again) 3
You lose out on a level of Forsaker but gain the FotF's con-bonus-to-ac class ability. You now end up with:

- Str 18 Dex 16 Con 27 Int 15 Wis 16 Cha 10, Fort 22 Wil 10 Ref 9, AC 40, Bab +8/+3, DR 5/+2, SR 15, 1d6+3d10+5d12+72 HP

You end up with a character able to take a big chunk of punishment, and generally unable to kill anything quickly... Or even hit it once if the opponent is flying or invisible.


If your GM has a good sense of humor try bringing an actual block of cheese to the gaming table. You'll get both a laugh and a good snack. I also like Graeylins' "Bob", genuinely.

Forsaker may be one of the worst classes, ever.

[Gavinfoxx]

Vow of Poverty? Forsaker?

That is REALLY REALLY baaaad advice... vow of poverty does NOT help your survivabiltiy, NEITHER does *giving up* the thing that most increases your survivability -- magic items...

Play a Tier 1 caster, and play it to the hilt. Be paranoid, use tactics, use your spells to solve everything. Be a Druid, Cleric, Artificer, Wizard, or Archivist...

[mabriss lethe]

A humble bard? Or not so humble one? A Dragonfire Inspiration Bard on a Silverbrow human? boost your Inspire courage and then make everybody awesome. dip a little Warblade (but only a little, no sense stepping on another character's toes) Pick up Knowledge devotion, snowflake wardance, song of the white raven, melodic casting..maybe a few others. Be the singing, tap dancing harbinger of the apocalypse.

[dextercorvia]

I second Graeylin's idea... Except that instead of bothering to make a new Bob, you should just use your old character sheet.

If you really want to make a new character --

Warforged PaladinofTyranny2/Hexblade3/WarforgedJuggernaut2/Monk2

Shape Soulmeld: Flame Cincture and Planar Chasuble will take care of most of your Fire/Acid damage needs. You are immune to all other forms of damage. If need be, you can take a feat for extra essentia.

You have mettle, evasion, and a +yes to saves. Ignore the AC bonus from Monk, just wear good light armor.

[SlyVenom]

Thanks for all the advice.
I am leaning towards druid and fiend of possession.

I can get outsider covered by taking my first level in savage progression as tiefling instead of losing a level, but what level can I get enough gold needed for Ritual of Alignment?

I want to explore both options, but it looks like druid is the easier of the 2 choices.

[dextercorvia]

Technically 11th, but that would leave you almost penniless.

[SlyVenom]

Good to know, so I could not go with the fop unless there is a pc race that starts with the evil subtype.

[riddles]

It sounds like this dm lacks subtlety/finesse, not understanding that actually getting sneak attack can be tricky and that monks tend to not work well in play.

Bard is a good choice here. Not a dragonfire bard as he seems like the sort of guy who will see everyone rolling a lot of dice because of you and gun for you. A normal bard with inspire courage can get +5/+5 to hit and damage (possibly +6 with vest of legends if you can afford it).

It's not huge unless your party mates have power attack, when it becomes +15 damage for no penalty for 2handers. If your other guys have that, I'd say bard is a go. With your, frankly, awesome stats, you can take this route yourself. Take power attack yourself and use mirror image as your combat defence spell.

Alternatively, play a malconvoker, wait til your next level and swamp his encounters with bossted evil nasties. While invisible. And flying.

[Essence_of_War]

I 3rd graeylin.

Make a "Bob the Fighter". Put no effort into it whatsoever. Maybe this can spark a discussion with the DM about him respecting the effort you put into character generation and you respecting the effort he puts into world generation. Right now it seems the like this relationship is flowing only one-way...

[Gavinfoxx]

Use the time honored roleplaying tradition!

Aigby
Bigby
Cigby
Digby
Eigby
Figby

etc. etc.

Make all their stats identical. Have starting versions of all of them with "igby" on the name handy, at the levels you expect the new one to come in as. Make it very, very obvious.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Bladeling (MM2) is an Outsider with the Lawful subtype, +1 LA, and its 1 racial HD would get replaced by your first class level. Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) changes your current subtype, if any, to that of your deity, which can switch that to the evil subtype for another +1 LA and Wild Shape at will as a free action. Note that you're healed as though you rested for a night every time you wild shape, so that's free unlimited healing.

You could start out Bladeling Divine Minion of Sebek, Monk 2/ Wizard 1/ Fiend of Possession 4. If you can buy off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) a level adjustment, you could start out at +1 LA and down by 7,000 XP, and at your 9th character level pay another 9,000 XP to buy it off to +0 LA.

[SlyVenom]

I really don't think I can sneak a bladeling by the DM.

I am probably going to go with a warforged druid with ironwood plating.
If I am correct this would give me all the benefits of warforged while shifted.
I would also like to focus mainly on combat while in wildshape.

[faceroll]

free unlimited healing.

"The first time you change shape, you regain lost hit points as described in the polymorph spell, but later changes in shape do not heal you."

Nevermind.

[Sr.medusa]

He claim to be a old-school dm. Go to Bob the warrior. Orc with a big admantite axe, improved sunder and break all the doors, faces or loot you meet. Really old-schooled

[SlyVenom]

I think I got shot down on my sweet ironwood warforged druid build.
Looks like Bob the Fighter is the winner after all, but he is getting a new dice roll, as I am not wasting the druid, he will be saved for another time.

[Gavinfoxx]

I think I got shot down on my sweet ironwood warforged druid build.
Looks like Bob the Fighter is the winner after all, but he is getting a new dice roll, as I am not wasting the druid, he will be saved for another time.

What reason did the DM give for blacklisting the ironwood druid, after greenlighting all the books??

[Baldin]

eey,

so far i have seen alot of mix build, but the "strongest" character i have ever seen in D&D was a wizard focused specialist on conjuration/wizard of the arcane order. With celerety there is beraly a way to kill him.

1. Combat starts
2. Celerety -> any fog spell and usualy you shut down 99% of the oponents.

so for power and servival go with a controller wizard imo.

important feat for this will be sculpt spell + take the class feature Abrupt jaunt.

This lets u teleport 10ft as an immidiate action for your int mod/day

cheers
baldin

[Firechanter]

I think I got shot down on my sweet ironwood warforged druid build.
Looks like Bob the Fighter is the winner after all, but he is getting a new dice roll, as I am not wasting the druid, he will be saved for another time.

Maybe "Warforged" in combination with "Druid" ticked him off. I would concede that it is a rather unlikely mixture - a construct immersing in nature and stuff _does_ smell like cheese. A regular (core-race) Druid might not have gotten the red light and would have been right powerful enough.

But either way, playing well thought-out characters with this DM is casting pearls before swine. Keep your druid for another day. Go with Bob the Fighter (or maybe Bob the Barbarian, as written, without any ACFs?). Maybe, just maybe he will catch on.