PF Fighter and Variants - Possibly Viable TWF? (SRD)

[subject42]

Before I'd start, I'd like to take a moment to indicate that what I'm asking has absolutely nothing to do with 3.5.

I am not comparing the PF Fighter to 3.5.

I do not particularly care that the PF Fighter is in some circumstances marginally weaker at tripping than the Fighter in 3.5.

I am aware that ubercharging is not as viable in PF as it is in 3.5. This is irrelevant to PF.

Good, now that's out of the way we can get down to some PF-centric business.

-----------------------------------------

I may have the opportunity to play a high-level PF game in the near future and just for challenge, I've decided that I would like to take a break from my normal caster routine and play a Fighter. I'm looking for suggestions on neat tricks you can pull with fighters at 20th level, useful ways of employing the variants from the APG, itemization, and feats.


At 20th level, it looks like the stock fighter gets the following:


22 feats
+5 to will saves vs fear
-4 to ACP
+4 to max dex in armor
No speed reduction in armor
+5 to attack and damage (untyped) and CMB/CMD in one weapon group
+4 to attack and damage (untyped) and CMB/CMD in one weapon group
+3 to attack and damage (untyped) and CMB/CMD in one weapon group
+2 to attack and damage (untyped) and CMB/CMD in one weapon group
+1 to attack and damage (untyped) and CMB/CMD in one weapon group
DR 5/- when in armor or using a shield
Automatic crit confirmations with one weapon
Increased crit multiplier with one weapon
Can't be disarmed with one weapon


While that's not the kind of mind-shattering power that a wizard/cleric/sorcerer/etc gets at 20th level, it seems pretty good when your primary strategy is "hit it with a stick until it dies".

What really has me interested is the weapon group bonuses. It seems like they provide a nice bonus for maneuvers, as well as secondary damage that might make Two Weapon Fighting viable.

TWF, especially, looks viable with the "Two-Weapon Warrior" variant. Has anyone tried it?

Do any of the other variants look usable?

[Threeshades]

I think it actually might. While most of the abilities replace weapon and armor training individually, the first abilities he gets progress accordingly like the following weapon and armor training would, but there will be more abilities for the TW-Warrior.

It will at least not be completely underpowered.

[maysarahs]

The mobility Fighter variant's capstone ability is to make full attacks as a standard action instead of a full round action. IMO that might be the best reason to go Fighter20 I have ever seen. (If you're going melee to begin with)

[subject42]

The mobility Fighter variant's capstone ability is to make full attacks as a standard action instead of a full round action. IMO that might be the best reason to go Fighter20 I have ever seen. (If you're going melee to begin with)

Daaaaanng.

I didn't even see that one on the list. Thanks.

[Threeshades]

You should remember that a lot of the mobile fighters abilities only have effect if the fighter's moving. And the full attack thing only comes at 20th level, so it will work against twf until you hit 20th.

[grarrrg]

Do any of the other variants look usable?

Short answer: Yes.
But only some.

I'd like to start by complaining that the ability most often discarded for variant Fighters is Armor Training. One of the 2 classes to start with Heavy Armor prof. AND an ability to make Heavy armor worth while, and yet it is almost always the first thing cut for the variants.
What's that? Your Two-Weapon fighter with the high Dex (feat pre-req) wants some decent armor? Well. Too bad, you're stuck wearing light unless you want a movement penalty and a cap on your Dex bonus.
Wait, you say your Archer would like some better armor for when things get to melee range? Sorry, stuck in Light again.
[/rant]

Anywho...
Archer and Crossbow variants look decent, giving you many more options than anyone else could have.
Phalanx Soldier looks interesting, eventually weilding a two-handed weapon and tower shield with no penalties (and some bonuses).
Polearm master is similar, giving plenty of options (flexible flanking, immediate 5ft steps)
I think Rondelero Duelist is worth a look (that's mostly only because I like the Falcata).
And Weapon Master's level 2 bonus has potential in a gish build (wizard with a bonded weapon)

[Reverent-One]

Short answer: Yes.
But only some.

I'd like to start by complaining that the ability most often discarded for variant Fighters is Armor Training. One of the 2 classes to start with Heavy Armor prof. AND an ability to make Heavy armor worth while, and yet it is almost always the first thing cut for the variants.
What's that? Your Two-Weapon fighter with the high Dex (feat pre-req) wants some decent armor? Well. Too bad, you're stuck wearing light unless you want a movement penalty and a cap on your Dex bonus.
Wait, you say your Archer would like some better armor for when things get to melee range? Sorry, stuck in Light again.
[/rant]


...You're not stuck in light armor, you're just not super-special awesome in the heavier armor anymore. Which isn't that major a loss, especially when you're getting some nice abilties for your build in the trade-off, like being able to attack with both your main and off-hand weapon as a standard action (or even an attack of opportunity).