Advice for a newbie?

[smashbro]

So, we have to play a game of D&D for class, so I figured I would come online and ask for some advice on what class I should be and just some suggestions in general. version 3.5 by the way.

so we have 4 people in our party, right now a rogue, ranger, fighter, and whatever I'm going to be. We're all starting at level two, and making our characters in the next few days. Any suggestions on what I should be?

The four I'm kinda interested in are Bard (mostly cause of Elan), Cleric, Monk, and Paladin. Any one of those that would work well with the group, or that should be in the party? Also, probably wouldn't do Monk anyway, cause we already have a fighter. And can Bards get any type of simple healing spells?

Oh, and sorry if these are really newbish questions, or the answers to them should be obvious. Kinda new to this (but I have been reading the comic for a while :smallsmile: )

[Doc Roc]

Hallo and welcome to the boards! What books are you allowed to use?

[hivedragon]

I personally hate bards, they can only act as support in battle.
here's there spell list
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/bardSpells.htm
they usually act as party face becase the have the skill points to take multiple charisma based skills so you better be a good public speaker.

if you play a paladin make sure no one in the party is chaotic and especially not evil.

cleric is the best choice

[Claudius Maximus]

If you are all newbies I would advise caution when considering character building advice you're going to find on this forum. While much of it is time-tested and manageable for experienced players, you may find some of it unbalanced for your game.

As for what you should play, just play the class that best represents the concept of what kind of character you want. Don't feel obligated to be anything that's the "best" or anything. But as a starting point, what do you want to do?

EDIT: And don't listen to the haters! Bard is a fine class.

[PollyOliver]

Bard is a perfectly fun class, though it's quite limited if you can only use the core three books. Given the amount of stabby people in your party, a bard using inspire courage to help them would indirectly do a lot of damage. You could do some healing with a wand of cure light wounds, and as you get better spells, you could use buffs like haste. You can even do a little light stabbing yourself, or trip people with a whip to stay out of harm's way.

However, another thing you might consider is that you group has no full casters and no healing. While not strictly necessary, these things will make your lives a lot easier. By that token, it would seem that bard and cleric are both good ideas, as would be wizard or sorcerer for the magic.

The simplest for you to play in terms of being able to adapt to different situations later would probably be the cleric. You can just heal if you want, or play it like a buffer caster and help out your teammates, or you can use your spells on yourself to become a good fighter also. And since you know your whole spell list, you can change it up every day (or every encounter, because you can cast healing in any slot).

In the end, though, this is your first character. Play what you want and have fun with it.

[smashbro]

Thanks! And I'm not entirely sure, but I'm pretty sure just the standard book? or something? I honestly don't remember, but nothing crazy pretty much

And yeah, I figured that it would be good to have a mage and healer in the party, so I might do that.

for class, we have to play a specific adventure, but i don't know what it is yet. well, the DM is using a specific adventure or something. as for what I want... an explorer I guess. going around and doing stuff just cause it's there. Also, in combat i'd rather be a supporting type, like a healer. But in general I like doing the support stuff, and being useful outside of battle too.

Yeah, the main thing i was worried about was being able to heal people, and the obligatory wizard is always good. But we're not going to be doing that much for class, so I'm leaning being a Bard with a few healing spells.

PEDIT: Core three books! That's it i think.

[Anxe]

I'd go with the Cleric. Your party, being mostly fighter-types will want some healing during battle. Clerics are the best at healing. That's because clerics can turn any of the spells they've prepared for a day into healing spells.

Paladins can also heal, but only a little bit. Probably like 4 points, tops. A cleric can do more than that with just one spell. Clerics get more than one spell per day, so... Better at healing than paladins.

Bards can also heal, but again, not as well as the Cleric can.

Those are my thoughts for a simple class to be. A basic strategy would be for the rest of the party to defend you, while you keep them healed.

EDIT: As for the explorer bit, I'd suggest being a Cleric of the explorer god, Fharlanghn. It gives you a few spells and powers related to exploring and traveling.

[Claudius Maximus]

I would suggest Cleric or Bard too. I favor Bard of the two, since you can help both in offense and in healing, and Bard is way more of an explorer class in general fluff than a cleric.

[Otherworld Odd]

If you're brand new, go with what you *want* to do. Any core class can be fun, but if you stick to something that we suggest, you might not like it because it isn't you. If you like bard, go with it. There's nothing wrong with bards, and they can actually be pretty good.


Some of the best characters I've known were just players playing what they wanted to play. You really have to get inside your character's head and do what you want to do and especially do what you think they would do.

[Shpadoinkle]

Play whatever looks like fun. Your DM should be able to compensate for any weaknesses in the party, if he's any good at DMing. There should always be SOME way past an encounter, even if you have to rely heavily on magic items to do it.

[smashbro]

ok, i'm thinking on going with a bard with a few healing spells, and then whatever else looks interesting. but later on i might make a cleric, idk. If it's fun, i'm sure we'll be playing it a lot from now on. but i like bards, so i'll go with that. should be fun. if we don't have a wizard or cleric, it won't be the end of the world i think.

and also, this is the first of second time our DM is DM'ing. but all of us playing it are really good friends (including the DM) so yeah, it shouldn't be too bad. don't know if he's a good DM yet, but he'll give us a fair shot.


also sometime in the future we were thinking of having everyone create a rogue and do all rogue adventures just cause we can. good idea? lol

[Pigkappa]

If you are all newbies I would advise caution when considering character building advice you're going to find on this forum. While much of it is time-tested and manageable for experienced players, you may find some of it unbalanced for your game.

Absolutely this. I'd say it would be safer to do this: don't let anything that you read here influence your character for at least a couple of months.

You could probably see why this is important since you said that you are absolutely new to the game and the first answer you got is "What books are you allowed to use?" (while you probably know only the Player's Handbook, and haven't read it)




The four I'm kinda interested in are Bard (mostly cause of Elan), Cleric, Monk, and Paladin. Any one of those that would work well with the group, or that should be in the party? Also, probably wouldn't do Monk anyway, cause we already have a fighter. And can Bards get any type of simple healing spells?


Rogue + ranger + fighter = nobody can cast spells. For party balance, I would choose to be a Cleric; a good spellcaster is really useful. Bards can heal a little, but much less than clerics. Bard would be a decent choice anyway.

Paladins can heal a little too, but except for that they are just bad fighters (but they have Detect Evil which is really good sometimes!). You already have a monk and having 2 of those sounds really masochistic.



Play whatever looks like fun. Your DM should be able to compensate for any weaknesses in the party, if he's any good at DMing. There should always be SOME way past an encounter, even if you have to rely heavily on magic items to do it.

It's difficult if there is nobody who can heal at all. It's hard to "rely heavily on magic items" at level 2...

[Otherworld Odd]

ok, i'm thinking on going with a bard with a few healing spells, and then whatever else looks interesting. but later on i might make a cleric, idk. If it's fun, i'm sure we'll be playing it a lot from now on. but i like bards, so i'll go with that. should be fun. if we don't have a wizard or cleric, it won't be the end of the world i think.

and also, this is the first of second time our DM is DM'ing. but all of us playing it are really good friends (including the DM) so yeah, it shouldn't be too bad. don't know if he's a good DM yet, but he'll give us a fair shot.


also sometime in the future we were thinking of having everyone create a rogue and do all rogue adventures just cause we can. good idea? lol

I forgot to mention, but to me there's definitely NOTHING more boring than being your party's healbot. Nothing. Noooothiiiing. Well, maybe being a commoner. But then at least you can be creative dying.

Later on in the game, push your friends to buy potions and scrolls to protect them and *prevent* damage instead of healing it (because the most effective way to get rid of damage is to prevent it in the first place.)

And all rogue adventures: Definitely a swat team. Be sneaky, then burst into the room and kill things as fast as you can. Think of it along those guidelines. Lol. Each player should specialize in something different to make combat effective.

[erikun]

I agree with the "play what you like" advice. It's your first character, after all.

Monk seems like it would bring the least to the group. They seem fine with hitting stuff and sneaking around, and the Monk can't really help with any spellcasting they may want to do.

Paladins can be good, but you almost need to buy a Wand of Cure Light Wounds to help out the party. Lay on Hands just doesn't heal enough for a long sitting. Smiting is a good way to punch holes into something, but it can only be used a couple times a day before it runs out.

Bards can be fun, both with spells and with music to give bonuses to allies. However, without some feats outside core (Snowflake Wardance, Song of the White Raven) it's really hard for them to do much beyond giving to-hit bonuses to other party members. They're definitely more fun in a city than on the battlefield. One thing to note - once you choose a spell, it's with you for a long time.

Cleric don't have that issue, as they can re-choose their spells every day. They problem is they have a LOT of spells, and choosing the good ones isn't always easy. Then again, they have good armor and can hit things well enough, and you can always dump a bad spell for healing. I definitely like Clerics, but I guess they aren't for everyone.


If you want a suggestion, especially for your group, then Cleric or Paladin would be the way to go. Bard would be fun with imaginative illusions or Charm Person, but you may become frustrated with only dealing 1d6+2 damage a round. Monk is nice if you like running around a lot and punching a lot, but you may begin to find some monsters quickly become resistant to punching.

[Claudius Maximus]

You could probably see why this is important since you said that you are absolutely new to the game and the first answer you got is "What books are you allowed to use?" (while you probably know only the Player's Handbook, and haven't read it)

When I saw the first reply was from Doc Roc of all people I admit I was dreading some world-eating abomination. I hear the man can tone things down though, when he wants.

Seriously though a wider base of books could turn out okay if we, for example, suggested they all play a bunch of well-balanced, hard-to-mess up classes that correspond to their concepts. I'm sure that as it is they'll run into all the classic problems with core and its balance that we all did as beginners.

[Noneoyabizzness]

bards are great starter characters in all honesty. in core you get a sampling of spells (including some healing), support ability, some offense and good prc variety. leave core you'll find plenty of fun options.

here are your issues, which may not matter given your current batch of other players' choices in party mix:
1)optimizers-and on the boards you will hear this alot, they are not the most powerful, so they are not what you "SHOULD" choose. if all choices were based on power, people would only play druids clerics and wizards. reality, god that sounds boring
2)multiroleing- if you decide on doing a role in a party commit to it, and as a bard you will be fairly good. if you split focus you will do neither sufficiently.
3)one trick pony-the opposite end, remember you have spells and songs, if you go melee you have options to make it a variety, if you go caster, consider seeker of song and/or combat medic if you go out of core to get more spell options

[Doc Roc]

Play whatever looks like fun. Your DM should be able to compensate for any weaknesses in the party, if he's any good at DMing. There should always be SOME way past an encounter, even if you have to rely heavily on magic items to do it.

Given that his GM is likely very new, this is awful advice. Bard is probably the way to go here, it measures more closely along the lines of other party members. What level will you be?

[stainboy]

If you aren't starting at 1st level, buy a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. The ranger can use it, you can too if you're a bard or cleric. That takes care of healing the party.

If the game is for a class, I recommend a cleric to get as close as possible to the "default" D&D experience. Your party needs a full spellcaster.

[slaydemons]

Personally I would go with something that doesn't stabby stabby as now you got three others who do stabby stabby and anymore might make a really crowed hallway if there is ever a situation.

[faceroll]

Bard is fun and useful. I recommend getting a whip and disarming or tripping from behind your allies while you sing an encouraging ditty.

Make sure to pick up spells that can be useful in lots of situations, like illusions. or charm person. If your DM lets you be creative, and you have the right skills, bards are tons of fun. You can sneak around and trick things, or lie to people, or get them all pumped to go adventure with you.

See if your DM will let you all pool gold to buy a wand of cure light wounds. Best way to do out of combat healing.

[edit]
Wizard would also make a good addition to your party. Spells like Grease and Glitterdust are really helpful debuffs to put on monsters so the melee can clean them up. I've found noobs take to casters pretty easily. You pick some spells, and if you made the right spell choices, they're always pretty useful. Class builds are straightforward, and feat and skill choices not really important. Plus, being a wizard is hella fun.

[Ozreth]

Wait, so why are you playing d&d in class? Which class? College or High School? I'm intrigued.

[Gavinfoxx]

Wait, so why are you playing d&d in class? Which class? College or High School? I'm intrigued.

Probably some out of school camp thing.

[Doc Roc]

Bard is fun and useful. I recommend getting a whip and disarming or tripping from behind your allies while you sing an encouraging ditty.

Make sure to pick up spells that can be useful in lots of situations, like illusions. or charm person. If your DM lets you be creative, and you have the right skills, bards are tons of fun. You can sneak around and trick things, or lie to people, or get them all pumped to go adventure with you.

See if your DM will let you all pool gold to buy a wand of cure light wounds. Best way to do out of combat healing.

[edit]
Wizard would also make a good addition to your party. Spells like Grease and Glitterdust are really helpful debuffs to put on monsters so the melee can clean them up. I've found noobs take to casters pretty easily. You pick some spells, and if you made the right spell choices, they're always pretty useful. Class builds are straightforward, and feat and skill choices not really important. Plus, being a wizard is hella fun.

You once again deliver sagacious knowledge, accessibly. Mad props.

[faceroll]

You once again deliver sagacious knowledge, accessibly. Mad props.

Awwww.... :smallredface:

[Pigkappa]

bards are great starter characters in all honesty. in core you get a sampling of spells (including some healing), support ability, some offense and good prc variety.

Good prc variety for bards in core..? :smalleek:

[Yora]

Bards can easily qualify for most Prestige Classes.
Arcane Archer, Assassin, Dragon Disciple, Duelist, Eldritch Knight, Horizon Walker, Loremaster, and Shadowdancer are all open to bards. With a little bit of multiclassing, Arcane Trickster, Blackguard, and Mystic Theurge also become possibilities.

Though I wouldn't recommend using prestige classes for any new groups.

[Noneoyabizzness]

Though I wouldn't recommend using prestige classes for any new groups.

yeah but sometimes when it's your first game, it's all so shiny and new and for some reason you want turn even and use your summon monster spells to contact an evil outsider and just e the one blackguard who doesnt start as a paladin

[smashbro]

Wait, so why are you playing d&d in class? Which class? College or High School? I'm intrigued.

I'm going to college to get a degree in Interactive Media and Game Development (at Worcester Polytech). Taking a storytelling class, so we have to break up into groups and play a round of Dungeons and Dragons, and then write an adventure for it. Still not sure of the details of the second part. Anyway, it is pretty awesome :)

[Tvtyrant]

I would go Bard as a jack of all trades type: you can use improved trip and improved disarm with a whip to be a valid melee character, use your songs to buff and your spells as battlefield control and use wands to heal.

The only problem with a Bard is that they need some knowledge of game mechanics to play well. Tripping, disarming and battlefield control tend not to jump out of the rules at you, but they are extremely effective compared to just attacking.

[ILM]

I'd actually consider Bard or Sorcerer. Wizard might end up being a headache due to all the spells you can get, and preparing the right ones every day and all that (plus spellbook management). I remember my first wizard to be quite a bit of work to play, especially compared to all my beatstick friends. I'd suggest Sorcerer, and asking here for the must-have spells in core.

[aboyd]

I agree with suggestions about playing a bard with a wand of Cure Light Wounds. Here is some information you might not know. The DMG suggests that if a game starts with the PCs at 2nd level, then they should each get 900 gold pieces worth of equipment. A wand of Cure Light Wounds is 750 gold. That eats up most of your cash. What most new players don't realize is that you can buy wands with fewer charges than 50 (the max). Maybe your character found it used, in a dungeon. Maybe he bought it from a gypsy who had already used it a lot. Whatever the case, if it has half the charges, you pay half price. So a wand with 25 charges is 375 gold. That still leaves you with some good cash left over to buy a few scrolls & potions, and all the gear & weaponry you'd need.

A tip: bards cannot cast a lot of spells, so most players *do* buy up a few scrolls at the beginning to flesh out their repertoire. General advice is to put spells on your "known spells" list that are immediate/swift/free actions, or which are useful in combat, and then buy the slower spells or utility (non-combat) spells on scrolls. Also a good idea: put the spells that are unique to bards on your spell list, and put the spells that wizards can also cast onto scrolls. The reason for this is the price -- because wizards can usually cast spells sooner and at lower levels than the bard, their scrolls are cheap. But if the bard is the only one who can cast it, then the scroll has to be made at the bard's level, and that's usually expensive. So bard-only spells go on your list of spells you know. Spells that you like but which wizards can also cast you buy up as scrolls. Of course, if you like a spell that both wizards & bards can cast, and you know it's going to be a staple for you (you'll cast it a lot), then sure, put it on your list of known spells. The suggestions I'm making are not hard & fast.

Finally, with the exception of knowledge skills, it's usually best to max out the skills you wish to be good at. At 2nd level, any class skill you have can have maximum ranks of 5. Any non-class skill is stuck at 2.5 max ranks. For those that are class skills, it's really wise to get them to 5, if you like them. There are two reasons. First, because bards are usually the "face" of the party and because talking can go horribly wrong and end in bloodshed, you'll want to keep your talky skills high to help keep the odds in your favor. Secondly, just in general, skills have synergies at 5 ranks. You'll find these synergies here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm#skillSynergy). If you can get 5 ranks and get a synergy, it usually means you get free points in other skills. That's a sweet deal.

[Pigkappa]

Are you sure about this? Then why would any bard or sorcerer but scrolls instead of wands with 1 charge which cost less and don't require an activation roll?

[Claudius Maximus]

It's a contentious subject and it's seen a good deal of debate. I suggest we don't get into it here so we can focus on helping the OP.

smashbro, if you are interested in the partially charged wands, ask the DM what he thinks. One-charge wands stretch credulity, true, but I personally don't find it unreasonable that someone would ever sell a used wand, so they could be around to some extent. Ask them where they draw the line.

[Lord Vampyre]

If your interested in playing the Bard, then you should play the Bard. You'll have a lot more fun playing a class that you're interested in then trying to figure out another class. Plus it does have some healing potential. Not much without magic items, but at least its something.

Paladin would just give you another fighter based character. With a Fighter and a Ranger in your group, another combat character is the last thing you need.

Cleric is a good option, it is probably the most versatile class next to Druid. The Cleric is a full caster, that can either become a healbot or buffer/debuffer. It is also, a strong secondary fighter (many argue that it actually fills the fighter roll better than the fighter, but that was never its purpose). And it also has Turn Undead, perfect for when you are going up against the undead horde.

Now, since this is likely to be a one-shot game, I strongly advise you to simply make a character that looks interesting to you and have fun.

[smashbro]

things have changed a little bit, but it looks like I'm going to be a bard anyway. we still have the ranger, but the guy who wanted rouge chose a monk instead, and our fighter said he would probably decide to be some sort of wizard, so it looks like our group will be kinda standard. ish.

we actually don't have much money at all to start, so there's no way I'm going to be buying a wand anytime soon, so it would probably good if we had a healing wizard or cleric, but our fourth guy is probably going to be one.

and if we have fun doing this, we're going to keep playing with our characters, so it might be one shot, might not.


EDIT: also, now i really want ranks in bluff, cause of the synergy thing, so I'll probably change my guy a little

[Doc Roc]

Recommend posting your sheet here. What level are you starting at?

[aboyd]

Are you sure about this? Then why would any bard or sorcerer but scrolls instead of wands with 1 charge which cost less and don't require an activation roll?
From the SRD:


Prices listed are always for fully charged items. (When an item is created, it is fully charged.) For an item that’s worthless when its charges run out (which is the case for almost all charged items), the value of the partially used item is proportional to the number of charges left.
...and then later, they put that rule into use during the optional "character background" section:


A 5th-level character has wealth equal to 9,000 gp. The character can spend 30% of this amount, or 2,700 gp, on a rod or staff—a staff of fire with 7 charges, for instance. She can spend 20%, or 1,800 gp, on a wand or staff that holds an illusion spell, such as a wand of invisibility with 20 charges.
In addition, 3.5 edition character generators such as PCGen will ask you for the number of charges you'd like in a wand before you buy it, and price it accordingly.

So if the SRD doesn't convince you and the computer tools that build magic items don't convince you, perhaps you'll concede that at least it's a house rule with some legs. :)

[Doc Roc]

A surplus of tiny legs, swift and creaking, strangely.... Wooden. It's got baggage, mon.

[faceroll]

we actually don't have much money at all to start, so there's no way I'm going to be buying a wand anytime soon, so it would probably good if we had a healing wizard or cleric, but our fourth guy is probably going to be one.

A 1st level wand costs 750gp. If you could all pool your money, you could get one. If you're starting at level 2. Level 2 characters should start with 1,000gp worth of items, and there are 4 of you, so that is 4,000gp total. Unless I'm wrong. I could be wrong.

[ZombyWoof]

I advise every newbie who's going to be playing campaign start with a Druid. You get a nice taste of being a fighter via the animal companion, you get a nice taste of being a wizard through the spellcasting, you have access to heals, and your spell selection today doesn't mean you'll be screwed tomorrow.

[Claudius Maximus]

A 1st level wand costs 750gp. If you could all pool your money, you could get one. If you're starting at level 2. Level 2 characters should start with 1,000gp worth of items, and there are 4 of you, so that is 4,000gp total. Unless I'm wrong. I could be wrong.

WBL for 2nd level is 900 gp. They would have 3600.

[stabbitty death]

wait you have a class where you play d and d! now I'm envious

[big teej]

as somebody who was very recently where you are.

I'd like to make a few suggestions.
first, don't be afraid to have duplicate party roles. another beat stick in the party is never a bad thing.

as someone who's learning, a big hit die and a simple class are your friends.
my first character was a barbarian. I loved it, still have the character around to play him again sometime.

you can't beat fighter for 'simple' though

if you want a bit more to your class than "i run up and hit it with my axe"

I have to recommend the Knight, d12 hit die, and some fun abilities.

further advice from me must wait until I have slept.

[faceroll]

I advise every newbie who's going to be playing campaign start with a Druid. You get a nice taste of being a fighter via the animal companion, you get a nice taste of being a wizard through the spellcasting, you have access to heals, and your spell selection today doesn't mean you'll be screwed tomorrow.

Yeah, I would make the same recommendation, though summoning antics can really slow the game down, and once you get to wildshape, that's another hard thing to learn.

But yes, druids are very new person friendly, if they like the flavor. Personally, I can't really play a druid because they have never struck me as the type to journey with a typical adventuring party.

[DropKickBananas]

I'm fairly new too, my advice is don't over-complicate your first character. I wanted to optimize every single aspect of my character by mixing different classes and what not. I went on google, found all types of d&d boards and sought advice only to begin making a character that eventually annoyed the crap out of me. Keep it simple, talk to your DM and fellow party members and see if he can offer more help to you. Learn as you play, reading the books helps A TON too lol. You'll have a lot more fun if you go with the flow.

[HalfDragonCube]

you can't beat fighter for 'simple' though

Try commoner.

[MrRigger]

Bards can be fun, and you don't have to worry about knowing and managing a huge spell list like a wizard, but I think I'm going to suggest Cleric. Depending on the deity you choose (if you like exploring, the god of travel would certainly suit your purposes), you can make pretty much any sort of character focus you want. And one thing the Cleric has over the Bard is that it is extremely difficult to mess up a Cleric build. They have a solid HD, two good saves, heavy armor proficiency, and they know all the spells on the cleric spell list. If you find you aren't using a certain spell that you prepare, just switch it out for a different spell the next day. Even in core, Clerics have loads of options, and lots of flexibility. Despite a lot of perceptions, you don't have to be a heal bot. With spontaneous cure, you don't have to prepare any healing spells at all. You can do all the necessary healing without wasting spell slots.

MrRigger

[TechnOkami]

Well, I'll give my two cents.

Go Cleric or Druid, my emphasis is towards druid.

[herrhauptmann]

Well, I'll give my two cents.

Go Cleric or Druid, my emphasis is towards druid.
Not such a good idea unless he knows not to be a healbot. In a beginning party, at low level, that's going to be the default mode. Especially for a cleric.

Are you sure about this? Then why would any bard or sorcerer but scrolls instead of wands with 1 charge which cost less and don't require an activation roll?
Partly because a wand won't carry anything higher than 4th level spells. And, if you look at the treasure charts, they include a lot of partially charged wands and similar items. (Ring of 3 wishes, but only 1 wish remaining)

It seems odd, not that you have to play D&D, but that they're having you do it at this point in the school year. Especially if your semester ends in early may like mine does. Regarding the second half of your project, creating an adventure, just write it similar to a "Create your adventure" storybook using various fantasy creatures as your characters.
Once you've done that, it's a matter of balancing the fights and difficulty of interactions. Crossing a 50ft wide ravine using only the equipment in your pack while being attacked by giant birds doesn't work at low levels. Ditto the obligatory dragon fight. It might be cool for the party to slay that ancient fire dragon, the one where an ox could walk straight down its gullet. But at level 3, they're just going to get destroyed.