SR Problem

[Gamer Girl]

So I'm working on the idea that I want magic to be different in different areas. so each race and region will have it's own type of magic. Instead of 'no matter where you go the wizard will cast fireball', you would be able to tell where a person learned spellcasting.

So the idea is elves would have nature type magic, dwarves like earth based magic.

And this brings up a wrinkle.

For some types of magic, I want them to be physically based. For example they don't like 'fire and lightning' but like more 'rocks and wood'. So they would not cast fireball, they would cast shrapnel ball.

And this brings in the problem. In 3.5E all energy attacks, such as fire and lighting are Evocations and allow for SR. But a spell like acid arrow is a conjuration creation and does not allow SR. So things acid, earth and air give no SR, yet fire, ice, and electricity do give SR.

So if you go by Core, a group of people that only used non-spell resistance effected spells, they would have a huge advantage over the poor folks stuck with their spells being effected by SR.

So what to do? Would giving various groups of spellcasters the ability to ignore SR be too much? Is there a fix for this?

My two ideas:

1.Remove all 'attack' spells from conjuration. If you cast sand spray, it is and Evocation that makes 'Pure Elemental Earth Potential Energy' and allows for SR.

2.Do the PHII way and bring back the dual school spells. So sand spary would be a conjuration/evocation and allow for SR, but have a twist on a failed roll.

[Shpadoinkle]

Spells that do direct energy damage go in evocation (like they should have been in the first place- WotC's explanation for why they're conjuration is stupid.)

[Fable Wright]

Honestly, I would remove SR from most of the damage spells. If you conjure a fireball, then you create a sphere of superheated air- magic causes the effect, but the energy itself isn't magic. Same thing for a storm of sleet- magic absorbs the temperature to liquid-nitrogen-like conditions, causing cold damage- it isn't cold aligned energy. From a metagame perspective, offensive spells could really use the damage buff- by the time the wizard gets a fireball, the fighter will be doing far more offensive damage except against hordes of mooks. And SR doesn't help when it prevents the offensive spells from doing anything to important foes.

As an added bonus, this gives room to make a metamagic spell that gives, say, +1 level of spell to any damage dealing spell and turns half of it into untyped damage, but makes it SR: Yes. Fluff being that, with the feat, you actually do zap your foes with pure magic as well as an elemental proxy, significantly reducing all chances of resistance, but it can be diverted by wards.

Or a compromise, making a successful resistance deal half damage to them, as if they succeed on their saving throw, but nothing else.

[bloodtide]

I've run into similar problems in my game.

It's a classic, that when ever a player wants to make a custom spell...they do the conjuration auto cheat. ''Oh my spell 'conjures' fireballs, it does not 'evoke' them so no SR''.

I think SR is a good part of the game though. And as an old 2E gamer, i think the best way to go is the old double spell route. In 3X it does get silly how some spells are put all in one school. Mage Armor, the classic protection spell, is not even Abjuration, for example. Fear is Necromancy, but Nightmare is an Illusion.

So the Dual School idea with lesser effect might be the best way to go.

[McSmack]

I'd probably just change the damage type and leave everything else the same. A shrapnelball spell would work exactly the same way as a fireball spell except the damage is physical instead of elemental. It's still reflex save for half and SR applicable.

Or just have SR applicable to damage dealing conjuration spells as well.

I find the simplist often works best for me. This is probably because I am lazy.

Oriental Adventures had some really interesting wood and metal themed spells, if you're looking for resources.

[Telonius]

I think that the fluff was originally supposed to go something along the lines of this. Generally, Conjuration brings something in from another plane. An arrow made of acid, for example, doesn't really occur too often on this plane of existence, but they might on the Plane of Acid. For things that occur more naturally on this plane of existence - like Lightning Bolts and fiery explosions - Evocation is generally the proper school. That's also the reason that Conjurations typically ignore SR. Elementals and elemental-ish things are kind of special with regards to magic, and things brought in from an elemental plane would be similarly special.

Even within Core, though, this does get a bit fussed. I suppose you might argue that magical and divine energies are part of the world, so Dictum and Magic Missile would work. But when have you seen a Fire Shield in everyday life? Webs and Grease and Fog Clouds don't occur as a usual part of the world?

For the OP's purposes, I think that removing direct damage spells from conjuration would probably be the simplest, and involve least effort on the DM's part. However, this would also get into the mess of "Which school is healing magic?" since Cure spells (which are Conjuration(healing)) can technically harm undead. If you're fine with that (and personally I wouldn't sweat it all that much) then I'd leave as-is and just have it be too bad for the Undead.

[sonofzeal]

Cure/Inflict should probably be Necromancy anyway, along with Raise Dead and its ilk. Its placement in Conj never made any sense to me.

[Gamer Girl]

I homebrewed all cure/life type spells into Necromancy a long time ago.


I kinda like the dual school idea. So Acid Arrow would be a Conjuration(Creation)/Evocation. It would conjure/create the acid, but then 'evoke' that acid at the target(so the Evocation part would be 'momentum').

And to balance that allow a create with SR a chance to take less damage. If they make their roll, they will still take damage, just not a much. The acid will still burn, but the SR will 'slow down the force/splash' of the impact. Sounds Good.

Question--If Acid Storm, Acid Arrow, and such are dual class spells. Then a spellcaster that picks conjuration or evocation as a barred school can't use them. Is that too harsh?

[bloodtide]

Question--If Acid Storm, Acid Arrow, and such are dual class spells. Then a spellcaster that picks conjuration or evocation as a barred school can't use them. Is that too harsh?

No. It might, in fact make character building better.