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View Full Version : [D&D 3.5 2 monsters] Help with CR estimation/tweaking?



Derjuin
2011-04-06, 01:34 AM
I'm trying to convert a pair of monsters from a game called Ancient Domains of Mystery to a more D&D 3.5 friendly format. Unfortunately, the extent of my homebrew-fu is almost entirely with base classes and prestige classes, not monsters. As such, can anyone help with this pair of monsters - the Moloch, and the Greater Moloch? I've intended for them to be closer to end-game monsters, say CR 14 or so for the Moloch, and CR 20some for the Greater version. I also have never made monsters before, except an off-the-wall one that really had no recorded statistics, so help with formatting/reminders of specific monster rules (odd penalties/bonuses for colossal size, etc.) would be wonderful.

Some of the abilities are there to make them more of a credible threat to players with options like Levitate and Fly and stuff, since you can't actually fly in Ancient Domains of Mystery.

Moloch

Gargantuan Outsider (Extraplanar, Chaotic)
Hit Dice: 30d8 + 510 (630)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 40 (8 squares)
Armor Class: 34 (+30 natural, -4 size, -2 Dexterity), touch 4, flat-footed 34
Base Attack/Grapple: +30/+57
Attack: Slam +41 (8d8+45/17-20 plus stunning (DC 31))
Full Attack: 2 Slams +41 (8d8+45/17-20 plus stunning (DC 31))
Space/Reach: 15 ft/15 ft
Special Attacks: Stunning Blow
Special Qualities: Immutable Form, Regeneration 10, Damage Reduction 10/Lawful and Good, Grounding Field, Malevolence, Frightful Presence, Immunity to Fire and to Acid
Saves: Fort +34, Ref +15, Will +22
Abilities Str 41, Dex 6, Con 44, Int 10, Wis 20, Cha 15
Skills: Balance +31, Intimidate +51, Spot +38, Listen +38, Knowledge (the Planes) +33, Search +33, Jump +48
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Sunder, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Improved Bull Rush
Environment: Plane of ChAoS
Organization: Single
Challenge Rating: ????????
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Chaotic, usually Evil
Advancement:
Level Adjustment: -

There might be a physical being inside the hulking armor, but most who dare to look report only seeing a stifling darkness accompanied by flowing waves of hatred and malevolence. While their movements are fairly slow, they are made with such directed hatred that even the strongest substances yield beneath their power.

Combat
A Moloch's natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as Chaotic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

Stunning Blow (Ex): A hit from a Moloch is particularly jarring, and can render even the greatest warrior stunned for a moment. A creature hit by a critical hit from a Moloch's Slam attack must make a DC 31 Fortitude save or be stunned for 1 round.

Immutable Form: A Moloch's form and armor protect it almost as if it weren't a living being at all. A Moloch is immune to all mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, critical hits, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, polymorph effects and energy drain. In addition, a Moloch is constantly under the effects of a Freedom of Movement spell.

Regeneration (Ex): A Moloch takes damage from lawful-aligned weapons and from spells and effects with the law descriptor.

Grounding Field (Su): Molochs are surrounded by a field of intensified gravity, one that makes it nearly impossible to fly. Creatures that come within 500 feet of a Moloch find themselves subject of a Weighty Utterance invocation (caster level 20th, Will DC 34) if they are flying more than 15 feet above the ground. Each round spent more than 15 feet above the ground triggers Grounding Field again. (See Dragon Magic for the full text of Weighty Utterance, page 82)

Malevolence: A Moloch's intimidating nature springs not from its personality, but from its incredible strength. It uses its Strength instead of its Charisma when determining its bonus to Intimidate checks and its Frightful Presence DC. In addition, a Moloch's Slam attacks receive three times its Strength bonus to damage, instead of 1-1/2 times its Strength bonus.

Frightful Presence (Ex): Each time a Moloch takes a step, a loud THUMB can be heard for quite a distance around it. Creatures within 100 feet of the Moloch with fewer Hit Dice than it must make a DC 30 Will save or be shaken for 1 minute. A creature that successfully saves against an individual Moloch's Frightful Presence is immune to it for 24 hours.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Moloch, greater

Colossal Outsider (Extraplanar, Chaotic)
Hit Dice: 50d8 + 1250 (1450)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 40 (8 squares)
Armor Class: 62 (+60 natural, -6 size, -2 Dexterity), touch 2, flat-footed 62
Base Attack/Grapple: +50/+86
Attack: Slam +64 (12d8+80/15-20 plus stunning (DC 47))
Full Attack: 2 Slams +64 (12d8+80/15-20 plus stunning (DC 47))
Space/Reach: 20 ft/15 ft
Special Attacks: Stunning Blow
Special Qualities: Immutable Form, Regeneration 30, Damage Reduction 30/Lawful and Good and Epic, Grounding Field, Malevolence, Frightful Presence, Immunity to Fire and to Acid
Saves: Fort +47, Ref +25, Will +37
Abilities Str 50, Dex 6, Con 60, Int 12, Wis 30, Cha 10
Skills: Balance +51, Intimidate +76, Spot +63, Listen +63, Knowledge (the Planes) +54, Search +54, Jump +73
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Sunder, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Improved Bull Rush, Ability Focus (Grounding Field), Ability Focus (Frightful Presence), Ability Focus (Stunning Blow)
Environment: Plane of ChAoS
Organization: Single
Challenge Rating: ????????
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Chaotic, usually Evil
Advancement:
Level Adjustment: -

Malevolence incarnate, this heavily armored figure seems to be absolutely invincible... a solid mass of incredible power. Working like time, slow but irresistible, the greater moloch seeks to beat down any structure or power that reveals an underlying order. Its mighty fists wreak havoc and destruction upon everything crossing its way, leaving behind a blasted path of mayhem and shattered remains.

Combat
A Greater Moloch's natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as Chaotic and Epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

Stunning Blow (Ex): A hit from a Greater Moloch is extremely jarring, and can render even the greatest warrior stunned for a moment. A creature hit by a critical hit from a Greater Moloch's Slam attack must make a DC 47 Fortitude save or be stunned for 1 round.

Immutable Form: A Greater Moloch's form and armor protect it almost as if it weren't a living being at all. A Moloch is immune to all mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, critical hits, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, polymorph effects and energy drain. In addition, a Greater Moloch is constantly under the effects of a Freedom of Movement spell.

Regeneration (Ex): A Greater Moloch takes damage from lawful-aligned weapons and from spells and effects with the law descriptor.

Grounding Field (Su): Greater Molochs are surrounded by a field of incredibly intensified gravity, one that makes it nearly impossible to fly. Creatures that come within 1000 feet of a Greater Moloch find themselves subject of a Weighty Utterance invocation (caster level 30th, Will DC 51) if they are flying above the ground. Each round spent more than 5 feet above the ground triggers Grounding Field again. (See Dragon Magic for the full text of Weighty Utterance, page 82)

Malevolence: A Greater Moloch's intimidating nature springs not from its personality, but from its incredible strength. It uses its Strength instead of its Charisma when determining its bonus to Intimidate checks and its Frightful Presence DC. In addition, a Moloch's Slam attacks receive four times its Strength bonus to damage, instead of 1-1/2 times its Strength bonus.

Frightful Presence (Ex): Each time a Greater Moloch takes a step, a loud THUMB can be heard for quite a distance around it. Creatures within 100 feet of the Greater Moloch with fewer Hit Dice than it must make a DC 47 Will save or be shaken for 1 minute. A creature that successfully saves against an individual Greater Moloch's Frightful Presence is immune to it for 24 hours.

jiriku
2011-04-06, 09:27 PM
The Moloch's hp, AC, and attack bonus are all much too high for a CR 14 monster. I'd peg it at CR 16 or more. The greater moloch is 20 I suppose.

As high-CR monsters, however, these opponents are much too one-dimensional to be effective challenges. It has big numbers, but ultimately its only win condition in combat is to try to drag flyers out of the sky, run up to them, and punch them. If its one win condition isn't working for whatever reason, it loses. It has no Plan B. It's really just an ogre with a steroid abuse problem. High-level parties will have little difficulty outmaneuvering these things, and combats against them will be fairly tedious affairs once the PCs figure out its defenses - each round they just hit again and again while the wizard pranks it with an illusion or something.

NEEDS MOAR OPTIONZ!

Debihuman
2011-04-07, 03:23 PM
Monsters gain feats like PCs at levels 1, 3, 6, etc. Your 30 HD monster should have 11 feats. Your 50 hit HD monster should have 17 feats.

Debby

Lateral
2011-04-07, 03:26 PM
You could just give them feats that give them tactical options. Both problems solved, although it's a bit lazy.