Economic Nitpicking or how much can 50k Gold buy?

[Malanthyus]

Heya,

This is sort of out of curiosity, but given how much in raw mundane materials a single gold piece can buy in DnD, just how much could Tarquin have gotten for his money if he'd spent it on alternative government projects rather than the arena shindig?

In other words, could he have gotten more public support for his money if he'd used the gold on something else?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Are you implying that the gladiator fight was a waste of gold? Because it is definatly not. Tarquin, as he has stated, successfully entertained his populace and distracted them from his oppressive regime. And since D&D doesn't go to great lengths to spell out the prices for things a government would do, like building schools, hospitals, etc, we really can't tell what 50k gp could be spent on for a country, unless he buys adventuring equipment for his people, which I don't see happening.

[theNater]

Heya,

This is sort of out of curiosity, but given how much in raw mundane materials a single gold piece can buy in DnD, just how much could Tarquin have gotten for his money if he'd spent it on alternative government projects rather than the arena shindig?
A loaf of bread costs 2 copper pieces in D&D, and somewhere around $2 in real life. If we use that as our conversion standard, 50k gold is $5,000k, aka 5 million dollars.

In other words, could he have gotten more public support for his money if he'd used the gold on something else?
The trick is that while roads and schools tend to make the people's lives better overall, it's difficult for people to recognize that, because they're not fun.

Most people can't name the politician who funded their school, but can name the stars of all the movies they've watched in the past month. If all you want is public support, periodically doing something flashy and entertaining tends to be at least as effective as consistently doing things that are actually helpful.

[Ron Miel]

...just how much could Tarquin have gotten for his money if he'd spent it on alternative government projects rather than the arena shindig?

You're kind of missing a vital point here. Tarquin isn't a benevolent ruler with the best interests of the populace at heart. He's deliberately creating an oppressive regime. He's not going to spend money on projects that will make himself popular. He doesn't want to be popular.

To be exact, he's setting up various puppets as unpopular despots, while trying to remain in the background.

[MReav]

A loaf of bread costs 2 copper pieces in D&D, and somewhere around $2 in real life. If we use that as our conversion standard, 50k gold is $5,000k, aka 5 million dollars.

Actually, 50000 GP would represent about 1000 pounds of gold, and at ~1450 an ounce, that's $23'200'000.

Granted, gold has almost tripled in the last 5 years, so the prices may be referring to an older staple. To get $5'000'000 from that much gold we'd be using a period between 2000 and 2005.

[Red XIV]

They were talking about the purchasing power of a GP, not the gold bullion value if they existed in the real world of 2011. Gold and silver are far more valuable now than they were in the days when they were commonly used as money.

[Ron Miel]

Gold and silver are far more valuable now than they were in the days when they were commonly used as money.


Are they? Do you have a cite for that? I thought gold is less valuable today than historically, because modern mining technology has made it more plentiful.

But a real world gold coin is not pure gold, which is too soft and would wear out quickly. It contains a large percentage other metals. So a pound of gold would be more valuable than a pound of gold coins.

[MReav]

They were talking about the purchasing power of a GP, not the gold bullion value if they existed in the real world of 2011. Gold and silver are far more valuable now than they were in the days when they were commonly used as money.

Thing is, gold has fluctuated wildly over the last 20 years. There were points where gold would have more or less been in the region that would have yielded $5000K from 50K GP.

[Squark]

I believe the stock equivilancy is 1 GP~$20 dollars, using bread to find a useful ratio. The explanation I read also used other paralells, but that's a good starting point

[King of Nowhere]

The price of EVERYTHING fluctuates, according to historical time and location. The globalized capitalism and speculation of the last decades made the process much quiicker, but the point stand. We can't really make a conversion gp/real money because it would give different values accoding to the good we analyze.
For example, you took the example of bread, actual USA price. with that, we have 1gp=100$. However, if you go in the third world, you can buy a loaf of bread with much less than 2$- probably, in many places you can buy it with the equivalent of 20 cents or even less.
If you try to link it to the price of gold, well, that pricce had been fluctuating a lot during history. As far as i know, now gold is cheaper because it is no longer a monetary standard - natiopns are no longer required to keep gold supplies equal to the value of their total currency.
Then, in D&D a silver coin is worth a tenth of gold piece, meaning silver is 10 times cheaper. I think in the real world it is much more cheaper than that. And so on.

Anyway, as much as there are fluctuation, the worth of a gp is of the same order of magnitude of 100 $. Could be 200 or 50, but I don't think too far away. With the 50k gp tarquin used for the festival he could have probably made a school, or some ddozens of kilometers of roads. Nothing too big anyway. a few million dollars is what actual nations spend for nationwide festivals.

By the way, I wonder what kind of ink the wizards use, that requires 50 gp of it for every page. grinded diamonds suspended in celestial's blood? Dragon's tears and enriched uranium? Couldn't they use regular inks? Geez.

[TrueLazy]

You all are soo going off topic here, which isn't bad... if the off topic subject was actually as interesting as a gladiator fight. :smallwink:

But as MesiDoomstalker pointed out, he didn't waste the money (not going into the question when you waste something and when not) as he has indeed succesfully managed to distract a part of it's citizens from his regime and every day life.
Not only does this event distract the audiance, but also gives them a new topic to talk about in the next upcoming days, which is all a distraction to the actions that you they see in every day life from the regime.


Though in the end, it's as simple as this:

Money on entertainment is only a waste when it has no audiance.
Seeing the reaction of this audiance I am pretty damn sure that this entertainment is embraced by the people.

[Jigsaw Forte]

By the way, I wonder what kind of ink the wizards use, that requires 50 gp of it for every page. grinded diamonds suspended in celestial's blood? Dragon's tears and enriched uranium? Couldn't they use regular inks? Geez.
You're forgetting the manufacturing costs above and beyond the material value.

Plus, being Wizard's Ink, it could easily be enchanted with special protective qualities (magically lasting longer, not fading in sun, resistance to curses and other magical or non-magical tampering, etc.), all of which drives up the price in added value.

In fact, if you assume multiple vendors in the manufacture of Wizard's Ink, the actual material value could be anywhere from 5 gp to 25 gp (non-magical ink is about 8 gp), with the rest being added value from being sold from vendor to vendor along the way.

The joys of economics!

[factotum]

Are they? Do you have a cite for that? I thought gold is less valuable today than historically, because modern mining technology has made it more plentiful.


However, there are more people wanting the stuff, and there are also a lot more uses we can find for gold these days than "Make pretty stuff", so I imagine the demand is a lot greater than it used to be!

[King of Nowhere]

You're forgetting the manufacturing costs above and beyond the material value.

Plus, being Wizard's Ink, it could easily be enchanted with special protective qualities (magically lasting longer, not fading in sun, resistance to curses and other magical or non-magical tampering, etc.), all of which drives up the price in added value.

In fact, if you assume multiple vendors in the manufacture of Wizard's Ink, the actual material value could be anywhere from 5 gp to 25 gp (non-magical ink is about 8 gp), with the rest being added value from being sold from vendor to vendor along the way.

The joys of economics!

Yeah, but my point is that it on't take much ink to scribe a page. I don't think it takes a full gram of ink to write a page, even considering that with the writing instruments of the time you needed more. I have no problems with the idea that a dose of ink may cost up to 50 gp, but with a single dose you write a lot of pages.
The idea that it could be enchanted, however, is good and could be realistic.

[stemfish]

If you really want to figure out the value of gold to current money, the best way is to realize everything is completely ****ed up. Look at the DMG and PH values for labor, an average craftsman can make about 3 silver in a week. That means his yearly income is 15 gold, 6 silver. Average nowadays is around 40k for a mid tear worker in America, so by the labor conversion 1 gold is worth $2,564.
So the 50k gp is worth $128,205,128. That doesn't seem right as by level 10 a character should have obtained that much worth in magic items.

Now, go by the value of a masterwork sword, 315gp. Nice swords made recently, masterwork quality handmade katanas, run about $1,000 including a fully finished handle with silver trimmings and silk wrap sheath. In this setting 1 gp is worth $3.17.
50k gp is only $158,730.15, almost in significant compared to the value compared to labor above.

There is no way to figure out exactly how much a gp is worth, because there is no true reference. When Wizards made up all the numbers they didn't have a full time economist check out their numbers to make the gp work as a real life currency. Instead they could have just used money bucks or candy canes as currency, but choose to use gold coins because everyone knows that gold is valuable. Magic ink costs so much to balance out, at least at lower levels, the cost of masterwork weapons and armor with the wizard's spells, no hidden meaning, just a weak in game balancing feature.


As for the original idea, I'd say it was worth it. Even without the bonus 2 gp recovered, that was a kick ass escape that everyone will remember for ages and the escapees weren't killed so the government doesn't seem heartless.
But really, that 2 gp made it all worth it at the end.

[Deliverance]

Good points, Stemfish, and it gets even clearer that when you consider your examples taking in this world at this particular time, the results vary by several orders of magnitude depending on geographic location.

Your mid-tier US craftsman might make 40k USD per year and an equipvalent European one might make 60k USD or 30k USD while maintaining roughly the same PPP.

But an african craftsman might, depending on country, run one or two orders of magnitude lower than that in PPP income.

And then take your mastercraft sword. Today, good metal is cheap. VERY cheap. A few centuries ago, that was most decidedly not the case, and if you go 5-6 centuries back the cost of a real world masterwork sword (or even worse, a full set of armour) would dwarf the cost that some are traded at for their historical value today. Just what level is the D&D world at? Just how does the presence of magic impact the creation of high grade iron and steel? Who the hell knows? :smallbiggrin:

[Zeitgeist]

If you really want to figure out the value of gold to current money, the best way is to realize everything is completely ****ed up. Look at the DMG and PH values for labor, an average craftsman can make about 3 silver in a week. That means his yearly income is 15 gold, 6 silver. Average nowadays is around 40k for a mid tear worker in America, so by the labor conversion 1 gold is worth $2,564.

There's your problem. I don't consider any part of D&D to be anything like America. In other counties, a worker who is just as able and skilled may make significantly less, like the equivalent of 10k USD or even 5k.

You need to compare to something more consistent worldwide.


Now, go by the value of a masterwork sword, 315gp. Nice swords made recently, masterwork quality handmade katanas, run about $1,000 including a fully finished handle with silver trimmings and silk wrap sheath. In this setting 1 gp is worth $3.17.

Also inconsistent. Not only are very few swords made of a good quality as used to be made when people actually USED swords, but modern technology makes them MUCH easier to make. Combine that with the ability to gather the resources rapidly, reduced demand for the items, and we have swords very much cheaper than they would be centuries ago, before firearms.

I watched a documentary in high school once about soldiers and their weaponry. If they couldn't loot a sword in battle, having to buy their own would be like us having to spend 10,000 dollars for one.

So with my new numbers, we have the comparison for annual wages as low as $320, and the comparison for swords as high as 31.70

Of course, those numbers are still far off from each other, but not by nearly as much as yours were. From here, we can find a kind of average around $180 dollars. Which of course, makes expensive bread. ($3.60 a loaf) But back then, bread may have been very expensive since again, they lack the machinery we have now. Of course, it may also be cheaper, throwing everything out the window.

It's a tough one. The best way to get an accurate conversion is to compare things that are universal across earth in price, and also have a price in D&D to compare it to.

[veti]

Are they? Do you have a cite for that? I thought gold is less valuable today than historically, because modern mining technology has made it more plentiful.

While gold has become more plentiful, the human population has grown faster, so the amount of gold in circulation per person in the world economy (or in any given country's economy) is lower than formerly.

Also, bear in mind that the world now contains many, many, many more valuable things that are not made of gold. If you list all the gold in the world in one accounting column, and all the non-gold value into another, and match them against each other, you would find that the amount of value per ounce of gold would be astronomically higher today than it was in medieval or ancient times.

Hence if you regard 'gold' as the universal currency (as many people still do, to this day), its value is vastly higher now than in pre-industrial times.

[MesiDoomstalker]

It's a tough one. The best way to get an accurate conversion is to compare things that are universal across earth in price, and also have a price in D&D to compare it to.

Which is impossible. Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING costs the same world wide.

Besides, we are going about this the wrong way. We need to look at books about building structures or prices for raw materials and try to convert it into things like schools or roads, not even trying to convert GP into real world currency. I know of at least one book, Stronghold Builders Guidebook, we could use to determine the base price of building structures and come up with good measurments on the cost to furnish the structures properly for their purpose.

[Zeitgeist]

Which is impossible. Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING costs the same world wide.


Which is why this is so difficult to do. And as we go back in time, the price of one thing relative to another varies.

And since D&D doesn't follow on an earth-based time line per se, we can't even find a good reference for it (although fairly medieval works pretty well).

[Leecros]

While gold has become more plentiful, the human population has grown faster, so the amount of gold in circulation per person in the world economy (or in any given country's economy) is lower than formerly.
Which would be an excellent argument for something like food which every human being would need. No, Gold values have only just started to come back up in value after many years of its value going down (http://static.twoday.net/mahalanobis/images/real_gold_price.gif), not up. Supply and Demand dictates the prices of goods, unfortunately until just recently the demand has been going down, not up. Only during times of economic decline does gold gain value.

Edit: I don't actually recall exactly what happened back in the eighties that caused that spike of gold values.


Also, bear in mind that the world now contains many, many, many more valuable things that are not made of gold. If you list all the gold in the world in one accounting column, and all the non-gold value into another, and match them against each other, you would find that the amount of value per ounce of gold would be astronomically higher today than it was in medieval or ancient times.
No, the fact that there are now "many, many, many more valuable things that are not made of gold." Does not help its value in the least. In fact it hurts it, What would you rather have? An ounce of gold? for $1,456(USD) or an ounce of diamond? Which is considerably higher in value. Even though gold is used more, it's abundance makes it less valuable, not more.




Hence if you regard 'gold' as the universal currency (as many people still do, to this day), its value is vastly higher now than in pre-industrial times.
No....just no. Most, and i do mean most nations today do not use the gold standard; AKA utilizing gold for purchases or the backing of purchases. Nowadays most nations are on a system of fiat money. In a system where gold, silver, and copper is used as the main money source, gold would be considerably more valuable.

Also note that this does not take into account inflation. While, yes, the demand for gold has been going up in the last....oh....5 years or so, another portion of the recent spike in gold prices is that fiat currencies as a whole are down in value too which also adds to the value of gold....technically as it takes more fiat currency to add up to the same amount of gold.

[veti]

No, Gold values have only just started to come back up in value after many years of its value going down (http://static.twoday.net/mahalanobis/images/real_gold_price.gif), not up. Supply and Demand dictates the prices of goods, unfortunately until just recently the demand has been going down, not up. Only during times of economic decline does gold gain value.

Gold fluctuates wildly in value because it is now mostly held by speculators - people who don't actually want or need 'gold' per se, but who are gambling on its future value. That makes its 'value' far more volatile than in the days when it was commonly used as currency. I was talking about long-term trends, not short-term fluctuations.


No, the fact that there are now "many, many, many more valuable things that are not made of gold." Does not help its value in the least. In fact it hurts it, What would you rather have? An ounce of gold? for $1,456(USD) or an ounce of diamond? Which is considerably higher in value. Even though gold is used more, it's abundance makes it less valuable, not more.

Clearly I expressed myself badly here.

I'm positing a thought experiment, in which you calculate the value of Everything In The World in gold pieces. Not all that long ago - within living memory, in fact - this would have seemed a reasonable and natural way to think about the value of everything. And all this history has an enormous influence on the price of gold today.


No....just no. Most, and i do mean most nations today do not use the gold standard; AKA utilizing gold for purchases or the backing of purchases. Nowadays most nations are on a system of fiat money. In a system where gold, silver, and copper is used as the main money source, gold would be considerably more valuable.

No, they don't, but gold reserves remain far more valuable than the actual utility of gold would suggest. Gold prices shoot upwards whenever there's a financial crisis, because people who were previously happy to maintain savings in dollars or yen suddenly lose confidence in those currencies, and they switch money into gold instead. They have confidence that when the dust settles and some new semi-equilibrium emerges in the markets, the gold will have held its value better than any individual country's currency. Because it's the world's reserve currency.

To this day, countries issue coins made of actual gold (most famously, the krugerrand, but there are many others).


Also note that this does not take into account inflation. While, yes, the demand for gold has been going up in the last....oh....5 years or so, another portion of the recent spike in gold prices is that fiat currencies as a whole are down in value too which also adds to the value of gold....technically as it takes more fiat currency to add up to the same amount of gold.

How can all fiat currencies be "down in value"? The US dollar can be down against the Euro, but that means the Euro is up against the dollar. For all currencies to be down at once - that implies there exists some other, more definitive measure of value, one that is not a fiat currency at all.

In theory a fiat currency's value is underpinned by the economy that issues them, but in fact there's no way of measuring that value independently of the currency in which it's denoted. Gold remains very popular as one of the yardsticks against which the value of fiat currencies is defined.

[Jimorian]

How can all fiat currencies be "down in value"? The US dollar can be down against the Euro, but that means the Euro is up against the dollar. For all currencies to be down at once - that implies there exists some other, more definitive measure of value, one that is not a fiat currency at all.

Very simple. Inflation. The U.S. dollar against the British pound have gone back and forth over decades, but the overall value against the goods they can buy has gone down considerably over that same time. And what they're measured against to make that valuation is a "basket of goods" that is a combination of products and services that tries, in an admittedly imperfect manner, to maintain a relative constant over time.

[The Giant]

Is there any hope of this thread getting back on topic?

If you want to discuss real world economics, create an economics thread in Friendly Banter. Just be careful to avoid any politics. Leave this one to the discussion of the comic and how it intersects with D&D's non-economic system.

OK? OK.

[Zeitgeist]

Well, with that post, let's be direct:


Heya,

This is sort of out of curiosity, but given how much in raw mundane materials a single gold piece can buy in DnD, just how much could Tarquin have gotten for his money if he'd spent it on alternative government projects rather than the arena shindig?

In other words, could he have gotten more public support for his money if he'd used the gold on something else?

For reference:

You could buy:
2,500,000 loafs of bread
158 masterwork swords
1666 courtier's outfits
250 Royal outfits
30 Masterwork Full Plates
50 Spyglasses
5,000 Tents
100,000 Trail Rations
125 Heavy Warhorses

I hope that clears up values.

That being said, he could feed all of the hungry people in the Empire of Blood (at least for awhile). Would that make people support him more? I'd say yes, but I'm sure somebody would argue against it (like Tarquin, since he believes fear is the best way to maintain control).

[SPoD]

We also don't know that Tarquin isn't ALSO spending money on stuff to make the nation better. For all we know, he might give out free bread to the poor every day. I think if he thought it would shut the masses up and keep him in power, he would do it in a heartbeat.

[Onyavar]

Whoa, some of you present good arguments, just to throw bad ones after. But if I had to sum up this thread, I would say: The D&D "market" system is no way comparable to the real world. WotC didn't create a business simulation after all.


[...]]
Then, in D&D a silver coin is worth a tenth of gold piece, meaning silver is 10 times cheaper. I think in the real world it is much more cheaper than that. [...]
One nitpick on this, because no-one argued it: Just another inconsistency. In history, silver was sometimes much more valuable than gold. And today it is 100 times cheaper only because instead of silver, we use stainless steel as a replacement today and there is a rally on gold. Afaik, the total amount of silver worldwide is not even a magnitude larger than the total amount of gold.

And with that said, back to topic: Tarquin having a minor Evilgasm about 50K Gold is the same as having your local president being euphoric about 5 Million of your local currency. That is the way nickel nursers think. 5 Million? Any nation spends this much per hour at least. Let it be 50M or 500M, and the argument still stands.

[Ron Miel]

Then, in D&D a silver coin is worth a tenth of gold piece, meaning silver is 10 times cheaper. I think in the real world it is much more cheaper than that. .

Is there anything to suggest that gold coins/ silver coins are the same size? If a GP is smaller than a SP it could still be consistent. Plus the fact that real-world gold coins are never pure gold, they always contain other metals to harden them.

[hamishspence]

The standard weight for coins of any metal is always 1/50 of a pound.

The PHB also has a pic of a coin showing the standard diameter.

But there's no description of the standard thickness.

So- 1/50 pound gold coins the same diameter as 1/50 pound silver ones, will be much less thick.

And since gold is much denser than silver- if measured by volume rather than by weight, a cubic litre of gold will be more than 10 times as valuable in D&D, than a cubic litre of silver.

[King of Nowhere]

We also don't know that Tarquin isn't ALSO spending money on stuff to make the nation better. For all we know, he might give out free bread to the poor every day. I think if he thought it would shut the masses up and keep him in power, he would do it in a heartbeat.

"Panem et circenses"
'nuff said.

I would surmise that Tarquin has some "feed the poors" program.
By the way, I would also surmise that Tarquin spends effort in making his nations stronger. After all, that makes HIM stronger as a direct result.

[Kish]

"Panem et circenses"
'nuff said.

I would surmise that Tarquin has some "feed the poors" program.

I'm sure he does. I mean, the allosaur must eat something when the games aren't in session.

More seriously, I'd be mildly surprised if there actually was such a thing as a "free but poor" rung of the Empire of Blood's social ladder, between "slave" and "middle class."


By the way, I would also surmise that Tarquin spends effort in making his nations stronger. After all, that makes HIM stronger as a direct result.
Except that he plans for his nations to be conquered on a regular basis.

[veti]

More seriously, I'd be mildly surprised if there actually was such a thing as a "free but poor" rung of the Empire of Blood's social ladder, between "slave" and "middle class."

The Romans had such a class. I think someone needs to do the hard, boring jobs, and if they're done exclusively by slaves, that means slave-owners have to spend time thinking about them.

The Clotsburg High School marching band (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html) look as if they might belong to such a class. They don't seem to be slaves, but I doubt if they're rich either. And the fact that they were so keen to get the gig, suggests that maybe there are opportunities (percieved or real) for social mobility.

[Narren]

If you really want to figure out the value of gold to current money, the best way is to realize everything is completely ****ed up. Look at the DMG and PH values for labor, an average craftsman can make about 3 silver in a week. That means his yearly income is 15 gold, 6 silver. Average nowadays is around 40k for a mid tear worker in America, so by the labor conversion 1 gold is worth $2,564.

Why would an average craftsman only get 3 silver a week? Unskilled labor nets a silver piece a day, which is 7 silver a week if you work everyday (which was the norm throughout much of histoy, if I'm not mistaken). And I would consider this someone living at, even below, minimum wage. Not the average salary of an American. The average for a D&D world would probably be a level one commoner or expert with no ability modifiers and max ranks in a profession. Even assuming that they don't have skill emphasis as a feat (which I imagine most would) or masterwork tools, they'll still average 7 gold a week. That's 364 gold a year for an average person trained in some sort of profession, making that conversion about 1 gold = $110.

Granted, the whole currency and economic system is still out of whack, but it's not THAT bad.

[Gift Jeraff]

The Clotsburg High School marching band (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html) look as if they might belong to such a class. They don't seem to be slaves, but I doubt if they're rich either.
They seem like they would be middle class. A free-yet-lower class probably wouldn't have such a nice marching band in their neighborhood's school (unless they also stole the uniforms from Platelet High).

[Caemos]

Since they're technically under what I understand to be an elaborately set-up monarchy under the Empress of Blood, Tarquin probably spends a lot of time and energy making most of the citizens think they're free, until he's ready to have another ruler replace the Empress, whereupon which he'll institute more programs/laws to make people "realize" they're being repressed. If he were to spend a lot of money actually making his people healthy, he'd run the risk of putting them in a position to stand up to his plans. I'd imagine, for now, that he tries to keep most of the populace in a murky, undefined "not that much of a slave-yet" class.

[bdf101]

Yeah, keeping in mind that Tarq and Co. like to have regime changes every so often so the populace doesn't get too bored. Perhaps they manipulate the living conditions of the general mob? I mean, we can't truly appreciate pleasure without pain, right? So Tarquin gives the people pleasure (bread! circuses!) at the beginning, then when he decides it's time to switch, he could get more stingy and provoke a "populist" revolt or something.


Tarquin having a minor Evilgasm about 50K Gold is the same as having your local president being euphoric about 5 Million of your local currency.
Well, it could be that he's not ecstatic about the amounts involved, rather the process. He's basically bragging about quite a nifty part of his work to his son, remember (not that Elan seems too keen about it). It's like taking a tour of a dungeon and pointing out a really awesome little set of tickling feathers you have. Maybe not significant in the grand scheme of things, just a cool little detail you'd want to share with your son...

[Valley]

Heya,

This is sort of out of curiosity, but given how much in raw mundane materials a single gold piece can buy in DnD, just how much could Tarquin have gotten for his money if he'd spent it on alternative government projects rather than the arena shindig?

In other words, could he have gotten more public support for his money if he'd used the gold on something else?


In Roman times those 'shindigs' cost a HUGE amount and many times included free food given out to the poor. But thay not only kept the people happy,and gave many people jobs, but also said to enemies and allies, "Look at us - we're so freaking powerful we can bring big cats from over there and different races from over here and have them fight to death and DON'T EVER #$%^ WITH US OR YOU WILL END UP IN THE ARENA!"

Yes, he could have bought bread to feed the poor. But the people would just chew on the bread and think about WHY they were on the dole and not working in well paying jobs.

BUT watching somebody else getting killed, seeing strange animals from far off places, getting perfume sprayed on them (Roman Arenas) and they feel PART of a HUGE and ALL POWERFUL EMPIRE! And they get bread - or most likely porridge.

And Allies see a bunch of twisted, wild people screaming for blood and wonder if they REALLY, REALLY, want to start something with those weirdos.

Just my two coppers.

Sorry if I got carried away..Roman history is one of my loves.