Megamind

[faceroll]

I watched it last night, I laughed, appreciated the subverted tropes. It's good; up there with The Incredibles. Actually, I liked it more than the Incredibles. Not as heavy handed with, ah... millennial politics.

[Tjarnet]

I thought it was pretty great, too. Especially Megamind's obsession with 80's rock. Seriously, who doesn't think a climactic battle set to "Welcome to the Jungle" is the best thing ever?

[_Zoot_]

How does it compare with Despicable Me? I loved that film, but haven't seen Megamind yet.

[Saph]

How does it compare with Despicable Me? I loved that film, but haven't seen Megamind yet.

I'd say it was better, personally. As good as The Incredibles IMO. :smallsmile:

[Sarco_Phage]

How does it compare with Despicable Me? I loved that film, but haven't seen Megamind yet.

It's a lot better at what it does, and considering that Despicable Me was pretty decent, that's an achievement.

[Obrysii]

I thought it was pretty great, too. Especially Megamind's obsession with 80's rock. Seriously, who doesn't think a climactic battle set to "Welcome to the Jungle" is the best thing ever?

Oh man, that made the whole scene.

I really enjoyed Megamind. There's not a lot of movies that I cry, "Sequel, please!" but this is one of them.

It's reinvigorated my interest in superhero comics, too.

My favorite thing about the whole thing is how "natural" flight is to Metroman. He's lived with the ability to fly since infancy - and he has extraordinary proficiency in it ... something that most comic book heroes don't have (look at all of the Superman films).

I also found I could relate to Tighten (also amused he misspelled "Titan"): he's a loser who has done nothing with his life - he has no friends, he's in love with a girl he can't have, and he's poor. Suddenly he's granted the powers of a veritable deity and has a new father figure. Sure, he doesn't end up using his new-found power for good right away, but who would? I mean, you give a poor loser super-powers and he's gonna get a be power-drunk for a while. And then what does Megamind do? Destroy everything the poor kid loves. He humiliated the guy with the "space dad" charade, he steals the woman Tighten loves, and uses him to fulfill a bizarre good vs. evil fantasy.

That'd be enough for anyone in that situation to decide that everyone is corrupt and horrible, and not worth saving.

[Gaius Marius]

What's the difference between a Villain and a Supervillain? :smallwink:


Probably the single best line/follow up of the movie. If Megamind hadn't already converted me at the time, I fell in love with him.

[Obrysii]

I am not a fan of Will Ferrell, but I did love his voice acting in this. It seemed to be one of his first sincere, not half-hearted roles.

[Sipex]

I thought this was going to be pretty bad with a very obvious plot but I was pleasently surprised once I saw it. I'd put it at the same level as cars (and for me that's a pretty big deal, I'm still of the opinion that pixar has no bad movies yet).

[Sarco_Phage]

I thought this was going to be pretty bad with a very obvious plot but I was pleasently surprised once I saw it. I'd put it at the same level as cars (and for me that's a pretty big deal, I'm still of the opinion that pixar has no bad movies yet).

Pixar has formulaic movies, but because their formula is good and their teams are talented, they have yet to produce a flop. Good enough for me.

[Warlawk]

How does it compare with Despicable Me? I loved that film, but haven't seen Megamind yet.

IMO it was much better. DM was great and a fun movie, but MM just had a lot more UMPH behind it. Very different stories with very different feels, but directly comparing the two I would give it to MM hands down.


What's the difference between a Villain and a Supervillain? :smallwink:


Probably the single best line/follow up of the movie. If Megamind hadn't already converted me at the time, I fell in love with him.

Love love loved that scene and specifically that line, it was fantastic and just perfect for the character.

Great flick, if you enjoy animated movies, see this one for sure!

[Knaight]

I wasn't impressed by mega mind, overall I would call it a bad movie, but only slightly. Which is a shame, because it had a lot of potential. The subverted tropes, the character of Megamind as he is more developed, the use of duality, the relationship between Megamind and Minion, the character of Tightan, Metroman faking his death, all of these were really good elements. Its just that the dialogue was consistently awful, with only a handful of disconnected one liners pulling it up a bit. To see the potential it had wasted is unfortunate, and I can only hope that it inspires a new subgenre in relation to superheroes, and that someone working within that subgenre makes a good movie.

[AshesOfOld]

Absolutely loved it. Haven't seen Despicable Me yet, but I've seen Megamind 3 times now.
Cause it's awesome.
The eighties rock songs, the witty banter between MM and Metroman (which could easily have entertained me for the entire movie) and an overall wellplayed use of clichés made the entirety... shiny. Go check it out if you haven't.

[Gaius Marius]

Somebody seen The Button of Doom?

[Xondoure]

I wasn't impressed by mega mind, overall I would call it a bad movie, but only slightly. Which is a shame, because it had a lot of potential. The subverted tropes, the character of Megamind as he is more developed, the use of duality, the relationship between Megamind and Minion, the character of Tightan, Metroman faking his death, all of these were really good elements. Its just that the dialogue was consistently awful, with only a handful of disconnected one liners pulling it up a bit. To see the potential it had wasted is unfortunate, and I can only hope that it inspires a new subgenre in relation to superheroes, and that someone working within that subgenre makes a good movie.

This, however PRESENTATION kept me laughing until the movie had ended. So replace witty one liners with that single line and I'm pretty much of the same opinion.

[BiblioRook]

I really liked the movie... except for one thing that almost ruined it for me... Jonah Hill. I really really hate Jonah Hill, with all honesty seeing him dance at the end of the movie almost made me lose my lunch. :smalleek:

Seriously though, as a person and as a character, he kinda made it hard for me to enjoy the movie fully :smallannoyed:

[Sarco_Phage]

I cringed every time Hal exhibited his creepy-ass creepazoidness towards Roxanne. I can't stand people like that IRL.

Frankly, while he didn't necessarily deserve to have the tar beaten out of him, it was really satisfying to see him get depowered in the finale.

Also I just realized that his name is a portmanteau of Hal Jordan and John Stewart.

[Friv]

I liked Despicable Me more than Megamind, but not by a wide margin. They were both excellent movies.

And I'm going to chime in with a complete lack of sympathy for Titan.
He wasn't just a loser, he was a creep. His advances were deeply disturbing, and even before Megamind revealed that he'd been played, he was using his power for all the wrong reasons and in a variety of ways both petty and nasty.

Also, was I the only one who thought that Metroman was sort of a **** about the whole thing? Faking his death to let a supervillain take over the city because you're bored with superheroing is pretty... evil. Especially since Megamind, effectively speaking, is his responsibility.

[Sarco_Phage]

Also, was I the only one who thought that Metroman was sort of a **** about the whole thing? Faking his death to let a supervillain take over the city because you're bored with superheroing is pretty... evil. Especially since Megamind, effectively speaking, is his responsibility.

You're not the only one. I loved the movie, but Metroman's actions were hardly heroic. With great power comes yadda yadda yadda, and all.

Although his justification was a bit interesting. He had a faith that no matter what, if there is evil, a force for Good will rise to stop it. In Megamind's case, that force for Good became... well, him.

[Gaius Marius]

Especially since Megamind, effectively speaking, is his responsibility.

Why is it? Is Megamind's existence his fault in any way? Why should he be shackled to that destiny just because that's what people expects of him?

[Mystic Muse]

And I'm going to chime in with a complete lack of sympathy for Titan.
He wasn't just a loser, he was a creep. His advances were deeply disturbing, and even before Megamind revealed that he'd been played, he was using his power for all the wrong reasons and in a variety of ways both petty and nasty.

Also, was I the only one who thought that Metroman was sort of a **** about the whole thing? Faking his death to let a supervillain take over the city because you're bored with superheroing is pretty... evil. Especially since Megamind, effectively speaking, is his responsibility.

I agree with both of these.

[Sipex]

Why is it? Is Megamind's existence his fault in any way? Why should he be shackled to that destiny just because that's what people expects of him?

This is pretty much the premise of the movie and explains why he goes into hiding.

He doesn't want the responsibility but you can't just up and quit so you dissapear.

[Brother Oni]

Bear in mind that it's pretty much a game to both of them and there are lines that neither of them will cross.

While they go for large wholesale property damage, I don't remember Megamind going out of his way to deliberately kill or injure civilians. I think it was this 'game' that Megamind was banking on when he made Titan, hence the whole 'wtf' moment, when Titan declares it isn't a game and decides to just kill him instead.

I doubt Metroman would have quit if Megamind had racked up a bodycount, but I don't know whether that's because of a conscious decision on Megamind's part or because it's a family movie so they can't show fatalities.

[Sarco_Phage]

Megamind and Metroman are both basically Silver Age personalities, fun-loving and generally harmless to everything except property value.

Titan, Titan was something else. He reminded me of the Iron Age, of Rob Liefeld's "heroes".

[Mystic Muse]

Why is it? Is Megamind's existence his fault in any way? Why should he be shackled to that destiny just because that's what people expects of him?

Because he knows that it's the right thing to do and what megamind will do if he stops doing the job, yet he did it anyway.

[Sarco_Phage]

Why is it? Is Megamind's existence his fault in any way? Why should he be shackled to that destiny just because that's what people expects of him?

Police.

Criminals.

Their job.

Granted, they chose it that job and can quit - another cop will presumably take up the slack.

This is what Metroman was relying on, technically - that someone would rise to stop evil even without him. His reasons were selfish but his concept was sound.

[Xondoure]

Why is it? Is Megamind's existence his fault in any way? Why should he be shackled to that destiny just because that's what people expects of him?

Actually Megamind becoming a villain was metroman's fault, and I think that was part of why Megamind was so shocked by Titan. Because Megamind took all that abuse and was still a decent guy. Titan didn't...

[Gaius Marius]

Actually Megamind becoming a villain was metroman's fault, and I think that was part of why Megamind was so shocked by Titan. Because Megamind took all that abuse and was still a decent guy. Titan didn't...

You are responsible for your own actions. Megamind's "evilness" came only because he didn't had friends in school? What, he never met nerds in High School or what?

Metroman was who he was, and just because he could stop Megamind, he apparently HAD to. Ever. And ever. And ever.

Until one of them dies.

Metroman had every right to turn away. And it certainly wasn't an immoral act, but merely an unethicalon, just closer to the lower end of the Lawful-Chaotic alignment scale.

[Sarco_Phage]

Yeah, see, the main problem I have with your argument, despite agreeing with it on an emotional level, is this.

"Oh, look, that guy was just savagely beaten and left for dead in the woods!

...

NOT MY FAULT, NOT MY PROBLEM."

[Brother Oni]

You are responsible for your own actions. Megamind's "evilness" came only because he didn't had friends in school? What, he never met nerds in High School or what?

He didn't have a good start by crash landing in a prison and being brought up by the inmates.

Considering what could have happened, becoming a supervillian was probably the best outcome - if the prison housed murderers and other more violent criminals, Megamind wouldn't have been as nice as he is.

If it had housed sex offenders instead... well it would probably have been a very short movie.

[Marillion]

I doubt Metroman would have quit if Megamind had racked up a bodycount, but I don't know whether that's because of a conscious decision on Megamind's part or because it's a family movie so they can't show fatalities.

There's a scene during Megamind and Tightens first battle that has Tighten intentionally tipping over a moving gas tanker that then explodes. Since it was on the road, there was presumably at least one person in the cab, and there is no way he survived an explosion like that. There is at least one death in this movie, and likely more.

Megamind, on the other hand, was prepared to simply let his hostage go; not escape, just go. He could have had Minion storm the prison with his invisible car. The only person he killed was entirely on accident, with a weapon that any other villain would be holding the entire city hostage with (and demonstrating its power on a regular basis) that was never used again, and it turns out he didn't even do THAT. In addition, when he demolished the Metroman Museum, he took great pains to ensure that Roxanne got out safely despite putting himself in great danger.

I'd have to say it was a conscious decision on his part.

As for Metroman leaving, I'd say it wasn't that big a deal, because deep down he knew that Megamind was really a pretty OK guy. I mean, within weeks of Metromans disappearance, the city is actually cleaner and safer than it was when he was there.

On that note,


I was incredibly annoyed for 5 seconds when "Metroman" showed up to fight Tighten. It felt like Megamind's growth as a character and a hero was being completely ignored, and it would have a completely unsatisfying ending.

But then it turned out Megamind just had a heaping helping of testicular fortitude, so it was ok.

[Traab]

That presentation line was the best. That whole scene was just incredible, and oh hell yeah, guns and roses is the best music period. I really just loved how he went out of his way to go so over the top, and basically grind titans mediocrity as a villain into his face. And he has a point really. Having super powers doesnt automatically make you a super villain when you go bad. Without a sense of style, you are nothing more than a stronger thug. And thats what Titan was, a thug, a bully, and a mean spirited twerp, with extra large muscles.

[Gaius Marius]

Yeah, see, the main problem I have with your argument, despite agreeing with it on an emotional level, is this.

"Oh, look, that guy was just savagely beaten and left for dead in the woods!

...

NOT MY FAULT, NOT MY PROBLEM."

So because I am the one who can the most easily save him, that condemns me to live on the edge of the woods all my life? Even if everybody knows the the woods have bears, and you save people a hundred time already?

In short, Metroman gas no choice over his life. The shackles of duty should hold him where he is forever, because of what he can do.

That's a terribly horrible fate.

[Sarco_Phage]

Someone's gotta do it. To do otherwise is selfish.

Did Uncle Ben teach you nothing? :smallwink:

[BiblioRook]

He didn't have a good start by crash landing in a prison and being brought up by the inmates.

Considering what could have happened, becoming a supervillian was probably the best outcome - if the prison housed murderers and other more violent criminals, Megamind wouldn't have been as nice as he is.

If it had housed sex offenders instead... well it would probably have been a very short movie.

I've always wondered how that really came to be. I mean, baby falls from the sky and lands in prison yard... and the guards didn't care?

Inmates: Hey, we found a baby! ...Can we keep it?
Warden: Eh, why not.

[Obrysii]

I've always wondered how that really came to be. I mean, baby falls from the sky and lands in prison yard... and the guards didn't care?

Just a stereotypical supervillian childhood - it's playing on the tropes.

[Traab]

I've always wondered how that really came to be. I mean, baby falls from the sky and lands in prison yard... and the guards didn't care?

Inmates: Hey, we found a baby! ...Can we keep it?
Warden: Eh, why not.

What Ob said, basically, just the opposite of the super baby falling to earth and landing in the kents corn field to be raised as a loved and justice respecting law abiding hero type thing.

[Gaius Marius]

Someone's gotta do it. To do otherwise is selfish.

Did Uncle Ben teach you nothing? :smallwink:

I don't believe in morality lessons made up by a comic book writer who will never have to deal with the consequences of hte standards he set for his protagonists.

Metroman walked the walk already. He's done nothing but that all his life. He more than achieved his duty. Are you tellifng me that because he's the child of his parents, he can never aspire more than being the eternal defender of Metro-city?

He's just different. He's not one of us. Therefore, he should always be slave to our inability to defend ourselves? Because that's what you make of him: a slave. Sure, the chains are made of gold and adoration, but a slave nonetheless. Just because he was born of the right race.. Sorry, I meant specie.

What of his children? Are they forced to take up that duty too, because "no one else can"? Would the one-drop measure apply to them?

[Sarco_Phage]

Can either Megamind or Metroman even have children? You know, alien physiology. :smallamused:

And obviously, yes. If you're the only one who can do a job that needs doing, then you do it. Only a selfish fish would do otherwise.

[Traab]

Can either Megamind or Metroman even have children? You know, alien physiology. :smallamused:

And obviously, yes. If you're the only one who can do a job that needs doing, then you do it. Only a selfish fish would do otherwise.

Yes, because what you want should never be a part of any decision you make. You must sacrifice your entire life just to protect other people wether you want to or not. Im pretty sure ben was more referring to not using your powers for evil, than to say you are now forced to fight crime no matter the cost.

[Sarco_Phage]

Yes, because what you want should never be a part of any decision you make. You must sacrifice your entire life just to protect other people wether you want to or not. Im pretty sure ben was more referring to not using your powers for evil, than to say you are now forced to fight crime no matter the cost.

No. Responsibility doesn't mean "don't be bad", it means "do good". Non-action is not "responsible", it's neglectful.

[Traab]

No. Responsibility doesn't mean "don't be bad", it means "do good". Non-action is not "responsible", it's neglectful.

Choosing not to do evil with your powers isnt doing nothing, its choosing not to do evil with your powers. And you in no way shape or form owe the world your unending protection just because you have powers. Unless of course you signed some mystical contract that gives you said powers of course.

[Mystic Muse]

Choosing not to do evil with your powers isnt doing nothing, its choosing not to do evil with your powers. And you in no way shape or form owe the world your unending protection just because you have powers. Unless of course you signed some mystical contract that gives you said powers of course.

Letting evil happen when you can stop it is neglectful, irresponsible, and also evil.

[Sarco_Phage]

Choosing not to do evil with your powers isnt doing nothing, its choosing not to do evil with your powers. And you in no way shape or form owe the world your unending protection just because you have powers. Unless of course you signed some mystical contract that gives you said powers of course.

It's not about "owing" the world anything, bro. :smallamused: If you keep on thinking in terms of "debt" and "owing" and "what you want", you won't get anywhere, and instead end up sounding like someone who feels entitled to something - in effect, that the world owes YOU something.

In the context of something outside your life, your needs are largely immaterial, especially if you are capable of what Metroman, or any superhero, is capable of.

Also, your point about choosing not to do evil with your powers is, quite frankly, off the mark. It's like this:

"I have a gun. BUT I'M NOT SHOOTING PEOPLE! I'm so awesome, I can't believe it."

Again, non-action isn't a good act. It isn't even an act. Else you could say "I'm not raping, killing, stealing, or embezzling right now! What an upright and outstanding citizen I am!"

[Traab]

It's not about "owing" the world anything, bro. :smallamused: If you keep on thinking in terms of "debt" and "owing" and "what you want", you won't get anywhere, and instead end up sounding like someone who feels entitled to something - in effect, that the world owes YOU something.

In the context of something outside your life, your needs are largely immaterial, especially if you are capable of what Metroman, or any superhero, is capable of.

Also, your point about choosing not to do evil with your powers is, quite frankly, off the mark. It's like this:

"I have a gun. BUT I'M NOT SHOOTING PEOPLE! I'm so awesome, I can't believe it."

Again, non-action isn't a good act. It isn't even an act. Else you could say "I'm not raping, killing, stealing, or embezzling right now! What an upright and outstanding citizen I am!"

My point was more that the whole great power/responsibility line doesnt necessarily mean you have to go out and be a super hero, its more a caution about not misusing what you have.

And I still dont see why a super powered being has no choice in the matter of whether he wants to be a costumed vigilante. Why, according to you, he has no choice but to go out and fight crime until the day he dies, simply because hes capable of it. Im not sure why you think its ok to enslave a man and tell him he has no choice but to fight, but in my mind, that aint cool. He fought the good fight. He protected that city for a long time. He is allowed to be tired of it. To be fed up with it. To not want to do it anymore. How dare you sit there and condemn a man for taking off his cape after years of saving people and retiring from that life.

[Sarco_Phage]

Costumed vigilante? Why can't he join the police force, where he can be a legitimate force for law and order, and perhaps good? :smallwink:

And again, this whole thing of yours with "freedom". On an emotional level I agree, I wouldn't like to be shackled to a certain thing for my life. But intellectually, I realize that's hardly the most rational response. Just because I dislike something that needs doing, doesn't mean I should be lauded for stepping away from it just because I'm tired of doing it.

Metroman didn't give up because he was tired of protecting the city. He gave up because he was bored of dancing the same old dance with Megamind as he had for years. Protection never came into it, because Megamind was never really a legimate threat to the city (Except its property values).

However, divorced from the context of the movie, you seem to be arguing that it's alright for a hero to step down when faced with a world filled with villains who aren't silver age goofballs or normal criminals who would, say, beat and even kill someone to steal his TV.

I'm sure you can see the problem with that statement on your own. :smallsmile:

[Gaius Marius]

still, put me firmly into the "nobody should be a slave" side of morality. Even if it means there are consequences to somebody not being there to do the job.

Let's say slave owners had managed to pit together be fittest slaves they knew, and gave them the task to be, let's say, firefighters or paramedic. Thy are the best at it, they save lives.

Would it be immoral of them to run away?

[Mystic Muse]

Would it be immoral of them to run away?

If running away results in the death of innocent people? Of course! Your personal freedom does not outweigh another person's right to live. yes, it's horrible that their freedom has to be sacrificed to make this happen but the benefits outweigh the cost.

[Traab]

Costumed vigilante? Why can't he join the police force, where he can be a legitimate force for law and order, and perhaps good? :smallwink:

And again, this whole thing of yours with "freedom". On an emotional level I agree, I wouldn't like to be shackled to a certain thing for my life. But intellectually, I realize that's hardly the most rational response. Just because I dislike something that needs doing, doesn't mean I should be lauded for stepping away from it just because I'm tired of doing it.

Metroman didn't give up because he was tired of protecting the city. He gave up because he was bored of dancing the same old dance with Megamind as he had for years. Protection never came into it, because Megamind was never really a legimate threat to the city (Except its property values).

However, divorced from the context of the movie, you seem to be arguing that it's alright for a hero to step down when faced with a world filled with villains who aren't silver age goofballs or normal criminals who would, say, beat and even kill someone to steal his TV.

I'm sure you can see the problem with that statement on your own. :smallsmile:

Yeah, but the problem goes a bit deeper than forcing a hero to continue an eternal and futile struggle. Now, if the hero could actually finish off a bad guy from time to time, I might be more willing to go along with the duty thing. After all, eventually, you are going to run out of super villains willing to do business in your territory. But all these superheroes can do is press the snooze alarm on the doomsday clock, because it doesnt matter that they have been defeating the bad guy for the last 12 years, he keeps coming back and trying again. So the battle never ends. What happens 20 years from now, when the bad guys are still there, and still trying to kill everyone or destroy the city? Is it now his responsibility to find some impressionable kid, and force HIM to take up the reigns for when he eventually dies fighting?

[Sarco_Phage]

Obviously. If the bad guys don't give up, then why should you? And why shouldn't you train someone to do your job? Someone has to do it.

[Jallorn]

I wasn't impressed by mega mind, overall I would call it a bad movie, but only slightly. Which is a shame, because it had a lot of potential. The subverted tropes, the character of Megamind as he is more developed, the use of duality, the relationship between Megamind and Minion, the character of Tightan, Metroman faking his death, all of these were really good elements. Its just that the dialogue was consistently awful, with only a handful of disconnected one liners pulling it up a bit. To see the potential it had wasted is unfortunate, and I can only hope that it inspires a new subgenre in relation to superheroes, and that someone working within that subgenre makes a good movie.

I had the opposite reaction. I thought most of the jokes were of the overused variety, at least for the first half, but I thought the story was great.

[Brother Oni]

And thats what Titan was, a thug, a bully, and a mean spirited twerp, with extra large muscles.

Titan was just a mindless thug, but when he's sitting there, burning holes in the city with his laser vision, he's very close to crossing the line from mere mean-spirited to much darker sociopathy.

I don't think it would have been too far fetched for him to have an epiphany and become a 'proper' villain - what he lacks in presentation, he'd more than make up with brutality and bodycount.
If Megamind had chosen somebody with a bit more imagination or a bit more strength of character, Titan would have been very different at the end.


Now, if the hero could actually finish off a bad guy from time to time, I might be more willing to go along with the duty thing.


In which case, the hero has become judge, jury and executioner, which wouldn't endear him to the authorities. Batman is tolerated to a degree in Gotham because of his very strict no killing policy.

While there are 'heroes' who do act in this way (The Punisher for example), they have a very different feel and MO to normal costumed superheroes. If Metroman regularly killed repeat offenders, he wouldn't be as welcomed or as loved by the people of Metro city.


What happens 20 years from now, when the bad guys are still there, and still trying to kill everyone or destroy the city? Is it now his responsibility to find some impressionable kid, and force HIM to take up the reigns for when he eventually dies fighting?

As somebody pointed out, Metroman and Megamind are both silver age personalities. They cause damage, but aren't malicious (contrast to Titan) so living Metro City under the rule of Megamind would probably make it like a minimal interference 'trains run on time' dictatorship after the initial chaos.

If either of them weren't harmless silver age types, quitting wouldn't be regarded as an option unless there was absolutely no choice - see Bruce Wayne in the opening scene of Batman of the Future where he's just too old to carry on being Batman and thus Gotham slides into lawlessness again.

As for forcing an impressionable kid, I'm fairly sure selective recruitment of somebody willing to take over the mantle would sort out the coercion aspect.

[endoperez]

Costumed vigilante? Why can't he join the police force, where he can be a legitimate force for law and order, and perhaps good? :smallwink:

Metroman would've been better off if he joined the police force. He'd have to do a lot less, actually. Holidays, free days, extra pay for hazardous shifts... (although Metroman actually seemed to have the extra pay down already).

Incidentally, that could be an interesting angle on a superhero story.

[Dienekes]

So, just saw the movie. It was definitely amusing, wouldn't say it's as good as Incredibles but it's fun. I'm surprised that Will Ferrel did such a good job actually, since I've really only liked him in 2 movies I can think of (well 3 now).

Unfortunately, Tighten wasn't really all that interesting a villain but that's a minor thing really. Also, I found the random mispronunciation of words a bit forced.

I did enjoy some of the subtler touches like, the opening theme song using the chords from "Bad to the Bone" that amused me probably far more than it should have. Or the prison was for the "criminally gifted."

Also, I have to say I'm on the Metroman failed his responsibilities side. It's all well and good to take a vacation, I can even see a justification for leaving with Megamind in control so long as he had a "you aren't really all that evil, and I'm trying to show you that" reason for it. But once real destruction started happening the fact he just sat there and did nothing is reprehensible.

[Sarco_Phage]

Metroman would've been better off if he joined the police force. He'd have to do a lot less, actually. Holidays, free days, extra pay for hazardous shifts... (although Metroman actually seemed to have the extra pay down already).

Incidentally, that could be an interesting angle on a superhero story.

Powers (sort of) does it, and I believe there is at least one other line from Image that has a metahuman or more on the police force (Savage Dragon or something)

[Traab]

Titan was just a mindless thug, but when he's sitting there, burning holes in the city with his laser vision, he's very close to crossing the line from mere mean-spirited to much darker sociopathy.

I don't think it would have been too far fetched for him to have an epiphany and become a 'proper' villain - what he lacks in presentation, he'd more than make up with brutality and bodycount.
If Megamind had chosen somebody with a bit more imagination or a bit more strength of character, Titan would have been very different at the end.



In which case, the hero has become judge, jury and executioner, which wouldn't endear him to the authorities. Batman is tolerated to a degree in Gotham because of his very strict no killing policy.

While there are 'heroes' who do act in this way (The Punisher for example), they have a very different feel and MO to normal costumed superheroes. If Metroman regularly killed repeat offenders, he wouldn't be as welcomed or as loved by the people of Metro city.



As somebody pointed out, Metroman and Megamind are both silver age personalities. They cause damage, but aren't malicious (contrast to Titan) so living Metro City under the rule of Megamind would probably make it like a minimal interference 'trains run on time' dictatorship after the initial chaos.

If either of them weren't harmless silver age types, quitting wouldn't be regarded as an option unless there was absolutely no choice - see Bruce Wayne in the opening scene of Batman of the Future where he's just too old to carry on being Batman and thus Gotham slides into lawlessness again.

As for forcing an impressionable kid, I'm fairly sure selective recruitment of somebody willing to take over the mantle would sort out the coercion aspect.


1) Honestly, I think thats the path a lot of bullies would take when there isnt anything to stop their escalating bad behavior. They would get crueler and crueler, until they finally crossed that line into total sociopath-hood.

2)"proper villain" I never denied he could be a villain, its just, a super villain tends to have a real theme going with what they do. A style that they generally adhere to. All Titan had was his willingness to lash out at a world that always looked down on him. Definitely villain status, but SUPER villain? Ill leave that to megamind. :p

3) Im not talking about a one strike and your out policy. Im talking about, "Ok, the bad guy has escaped on no less than 5 separate occasions, only to continue his reign of murderous terror on the city. Maybe prison isnt working very well here." He has been tried, he has been found guilty, he has been sentenced, but its not doing any good because he is constantly busting out of whatever prison he is put in. Eventually you have to admit, that arresting him is an exercise in futility, and the danger these guys represent to society is just too damn high. I have to believe that if there was a real life Joker, after the tenth time he broke out of jail and brutally killed several people, the police would stop worrying about catching him, and worry about transporting his bullet riddled body to the morgue. And I would be giving a standing ovation to the officer who did it.

4)The whole impressionable kid thing was me basically asking if, after we worked this superhero to death, would we turn around and force some other person into a suit to fight crime for us?

[Mystic Muse]

3) Im not talking about a one strike and your out policy. Im talking about, "Ok, the bad guy has escaped on no less than 5 separate occasions, only to continue his reign of murderous terror on the city. Maybe prison isnt working very well here." He has been tried, he has been found guilty, he has been sentenced, but its not doing any good because he is constantly busting out of whatever prison he is put in. Eventually you have to admit, that arresting him is an exercise in futility, and the danger these guys represent to society is just too damn high. I have to believe that if there was a real life Joker, after the tenth time he broke out of jail and brutally killed several people, the police would stop worrying about catching him, and worry about transporting his bullet riddled body to the morgue. And I would be giving a standing ovation to the officer who did it.


Except Megamind, as far as I recall, didn't kill anybody in the movie. As far as I can recall the worst crime he was guilty of was property damage and impersonating other people. This isn't the joker we're talking about here, this is more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

[Flickerdart]

The best part is, they put him into the same room every time they get him back. You'd think they'd learn.

[Traab]

Except Megamind, as far as I recall, didn't kill anybody in the movie. As far as I can recall the worst crime he was guilty of was property damage and impersonating other people. This isn't the joker we're talking about here, this is more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

True, and thats the sticky wicket. But then again, since he isnt this diabolical slaughter happy lunatic, do you REALLY need a superhero to deal with him? Worst case scenario you might want to call in the military, since its basically him trying to carve out his own little province in the U.S. right?

[Sarco_Phage]

The best part is, they put him into the same room every time they get him back. You'd think they'd learn.

The point wasn't learning though. Much of the movie was a glorious silver age sendup to the old four-color days, characterized by a sense of wonder and a complete lack of a sense of logical consequences.


True, and thats the sticky wicket. But then again, since he isnt this diabolical slaughter happy lunatic, do you REALLY need a superhero to deal with him? Worst case scenario you might want to call in the military, since its basically him trying to carve out his own little province in the U.S. right?

Why, when Metroman's right there to stop him? :smallamused:

When he finally does "kill" Metroman, it becomes pretty clear that there's no one who can stand up to him.

[Traab]

The point wasn't learning though. Much of the movie was a glorious silver age sendup to the old four-color days, characterized by a sense of wonder and a complete lack of a sense of logical consequences.



Why, when Metroman's right there to stop him? :smallamused:

When he finally does "kill" Metroman, it becomes pretty clear that there's no one who can stand up to him.

Because its not metromans job to protect the united states from people who want to conquer it, its the military's? I mean honestly, if a country cant protect itself from one villain, especially one like megamind who ISNT a genocidal lunatic bent on the total annihalation of reality, then it really doesnt deserve to hold onto its territory. All hail latveria 2.0! And our new emperor for life, MEGAMIND!

[Mystic Muse]

Because its not metromans job to protect the united states from people who want to conquer it, its the military's? I mean honestly, if a country cant protect itself from one villain, especially one like megamind who ISNT a genocidal lunatic bent on the total annihalation of reality, then it really doesnt deserve to hold onto its territory.

So, in other words, Might equals the right to rule?

[Traab]

So, in other words, Might equals the right to rule?

Uhhh, yes? Thats pretty much how countries seize and maintain control. Through power, the exercise of, or threat of, the borders of every nation are secured. When they show weakness, enemies move in and attempt to take it. Once again through the use of power. Wether its military might, economic might, political might, might makes right on a world stage. Its not just in human society either. In nature itself, only the strong survive. We may like to pretend its works otherwise, but even diplomacy is a steel fist wrapped in a velvet glove. At its most basic level diplomacy is just a polite way for someone to say, "Im strong enough to hurt you, give me something to make me not want to."

[Sarco_Phage]

Because its not metromans job to protect the united states from people who want to conquer it, its the military's? I mean honestly, if a country cant protect itself from one villain, especially one like megamind who ISNT a genocidal lunatic bent on the total annihalation of reality, then it really doesnt deserve to hold onto its territory. All hail latveria 2.0! And our new emperor for life, MEGAMIND!

Megamind didn't want the world, but the city. Conversely, Metroman became the defender of the city.

You're still not getting that Megamind and Metroman had a personal struggle going on here, less one to do with civic policy. Like I've said before, Metroman didn't quit because he was tired (that's probably not physically possible), he quit because he was bored and wanted to do something he enjoyed doing. He was bored of dancing the same dance over and over again.


This is what he said, basically:
"You know what? I'm tired of operating on hearts. Let me just walk out of the operating theater, someone will take over it for me."

Also, Kyuubi addresses a very striking implication of your post.

[Mystic Muse]

Uhhh, yes? Thats pretty much how countries seize and maintain control. Through power, the exercise of, or threat of, the borders of every nation are secured. When they show weakness, enemies move in and attempt to take it. Once again through the use of power. Wether its military might, economic might, political might, might makes right on a world stage. Its not just in human society either. In nature itself, only the strong survive. We may like to pretend its works otherwise, but even diplomacy is a steel fist wrapped in a velvet glove. At its most basic level diplomacy is just a polite way for someone to say, "Im strong enough to hurt you, give me something to make me not want to."

Good to know that the next time a genocidal maniac ascends to power I'm not allowed to do anything about it because he's stronger than me. :smallannoyed:

[Sarco_Phage]

Uhhh, yes? Thats pretty much how countries seize and maintain control. Through power, the exercise of, or threat of, the borders of every nation are secured. When they show weakness, enemies move in and attempt to take it.

Yeah, we're seeing a lot of that nowadays.

^^

This is sarcasm, by the way.

[Traab]

{Scrubbed}

[Gaius Marius]

Good to know that the next time a genocidal maniac ascends to power I'm not allowed to do anything about it because he's stronger than me. :smallannoyed:

Practically. You may try to resist as you want, but don't expect to have any morality standards to save your ass if you get caught.

Morality means little when force is in play. You won't stop a tyrant with nice words or morality jugement.

It wasn't Cicero's criticism of Caesar who brought down the Dictator, it was the 13 stylettos who struct his heart.

Force is what is needed to stop an hostile force. Period.

[Mystic Muse]

Practically. You may try to resist as you want, but don't expect to have any morality standards to save your ass if you get caught.

Morality means little when force is in play. You won't stop a tyrant with nice words or morality jugement.

It wasn't Cicero's criticism of Caesar who brought down the Dictator, it was the 13 stylettos who struct his heart.

Force is what is needed to stop an hostile force. Period.

I'm not going to argue this. We're already too far into territory we shouldn't be in and I'm surprised it got to this point in a megamind thread of all threads. I'm backing out now before I say something I regret.

[Revlid]

Good to know that the next time a genocidal maniac ascends to power I'm not allowed to do anything about it because he's stronger than me. :smallannoyed:Don't be obtuse.

You're allowed to try.

If you succeed, you were stronger than him, in whatever way mattered. Might made right.
If you fail, you were weaker than him, in whatever way mattered. Might made right.

[Knaight]

I had the opposite reaction. I thought most of the jokes were of the overused variety, at least for the first half, but I thought the story was great.

That is exactly what I'm saying. The story emerged from the classic elements of the genre and the desire to play upon them and reverse them, and it is in how all that was handled that I am impressed. Its just that the dialogue and the inset jokes dragged it down.

[Brother Oni]

2)"proper villain" I never denied he could be a villain, its just, a super villain tends to have a real theme going with what they do. A style that they generally adhere to. All Titan had was his willingness to lash out at a world that always looked down on him. Definitely villain status, but SUPER villain? Ill leave that to megamind. :p


Sorry, I wasn't being very clear.

I was referring to the final step a bully makes to become a properly reprehensible person.
You wouldn't call a person who tortures their victims before killing them, a villain - it's too mild a word for what he is. Titan was very close to taking that final step, becoming a sociopath rather than a villan.

I agree that a SUPER villian has style, a flamboyancy that you can't just help admire despite being opposed to him. Titan definitely didn't have that.



3) I have to believe that if there was a real life Joker, after the tenth time he broke out of jail and brutally killed several people, the police would stop worrying about catching him, and worry about transporting his bullet riddled body to the morgue. And I would be giving a standing ovation to the officer who did it.


Unfortunately you're blurring the comicbook world with the real world again.

In the real world, a criminal like the Joker wouldn't have the chance to escape - prisons aren't that easy to escape from and the authorities would rewrite laws just to make sure he was put out of commission (reworded to avoid breaking board rules).



4)The whole impressionable kid thing was me basically asking if, after we worked this superhero to death, would we turn around and force some other person into a suit to fight crime for us?

You seem to be implying that nobody is capable of altruism or actually wants to fight crime.

A lot of people become police officers, soldiers or other public servants because they want to, whether it's for personal gain, to help people or serving their country.

Philosophically speaking, is it really coercion if somebody wants to do this job that you need doing?


Megamind didn't want the world, but the city. Conversely, Metroman became the defender of the city.

I agree with Sarco_Phage here.

If Megamind had tried to create his own micronation, then the government would have stepped in. As it is, he just claims control of the city in the same way that a normal person with influence (both politically and monetary) would claim control of a city.

Controlling a city with your mini-robots and doing it via legal/political harassment has the same result, just you need a difference response to counter it (a superhero compared to using your own political and monetary influence).

[Traab]

Sorry, I wasn't being very clear.

I was referring to the final step a bully makes to become a properly reprehensible person.
You wouldn't call a person who tortures their victims before killing them, a villain - it's too mild a word for what he is. Titan was very close to taking that final step, becoming a sociopath rather than a villan.

I agree that a SUPER villian has style, a flamboyancy that you can't just help admire despite being opposed to him. Titan definitely didn't have that.



Unfortunately you're blurring the comicbook world with the real world again.

In the real world, a criminal like the Joker wouldn't have the chance to escape - prisons aren't that easy to escape from and the authorities would rewrite laws just to make sure he was put out of commission (reworded to avoid breaking board rules).



You seem to be implying that nobody is capable of altruism or actually wants to fight crime.

A lot of people become police officers, soldiers or other public servants because they want to, whether it's for personal gain, to help people or serving their country.

Philosophically speaking, is it really coercion if somebody wants to do this job that you need doing?



I agree with Sarco_Phage here.

If Megamind had tried to create his own micronation, then the government would have stepped in. As it is, he just claims control of the city in the same way that a normal person with influence (both politically and monetary) would claim control of a city.

Controlling a city with your mini-robots and doing it via legal/political harassment has the same result, just you need a difference response to counter it (a superhero compared to using your own political and monetary influence).

1)True I wouldnt call him a villain, but thats mainly because that isnt a very common real world term. Sociopath, monster, these are terms id use. But I see what you meant now.

2) Honestly, the entire argument is a blurring of real world and comic book ethics. In comic books heroes just plain DONT stop. At least not for long. They may hit a major personal level of suffering and take a break while they deal with it, even claim to have retired, but they always get pulled back in in the end. My argument is just that there should be limits to how many times a mass murdering lunatic is able to escape and commit even more random acts of slaughter before society as a whole says, "Enough! SOMEBODY take him out!"

3)Oh im sure there are people out there like that. Im also sure that many would eventually grow tired of risking their lives fighting villains that society is incapable of keeping locked up. Tired of putting their lives on the line, only to see their opponent break out of prison over and over and put the lives of the city at risk. They should be allowed to quit. Whereas people like Sarco feel its some horrendous crime for a super hero to dare to want to live a life that isnt surrounded by futility and an endless cycle of battle against enemies the rest of the world doesnt want to deal with.

4) If he wants control of the town, let him run for public office. Anything else is considered a hostile takeover and the military should respond to protect our nations sovereignty. Lex Luthor got himself elected president, why cant megamind go for mayor? :p

[Sarco_Phage]

2) Honestly, the entire argument is a blurring of real world and comic book ethics. In comic books heroes just plain DONT stop. At least not for long.

You're hanging up a double standard. Earlier you were saying that the crimes and villains never stop, and now you're complaining that the heroes don't stop. In a universe populated by undying evil, why should undying good not be as persistent a factor? Because it's not "realistic"? Newsflash: neither is heat vision. :smallamused:


Whereas people like Sarco feel its some horrendous crime for a super hero to dare to want to live a life that isnt surrounded by futility and an endless cycle of battle against enemies the rest of the world doesnt want to deal with.

Crime? No. Unheroic? Yep. :smallwink:

EDIT: Ahhh, I see where you're going with this. This is linked to the earlier "great power = great responsibility" thing.

Again, it becomes their job by default, not because the rest of the world doesn't want to deal with them, but because the rest of the world simply can't. And to quit a job that needs doing, a job only you can do, because you're bored is abhorrent and selfish.

[Traab]

You're hanging up a double standard. Earlier you were saying that the crimes and villains never stop, and now you're complaining that the heroes don't stop. In a universe populated by undying evil, why should undying good not be as persistent a factor? Because it's not "realistic"? Newsflash: neither is heat vision. :smallamused:



Crime? No. Unheroic? Yep. :smallwink:

EDIT: Ahhh, I see where you're going with this. This is linked to the earlier "great power = great responsibility" thing.

Again, it becomes their job by default, not because the rest of the world doesn't want to deal with them, but because the rest of the world simply can't. And to quit a job that needs doing, a job only you can do, because you're bored is abhorrent and selfish.

I wasnt complaining that the heroes dont stop, I was saying that they should be allowed to if they so desire. The fact that in comics they dont stop was my point about how this entire argument is blurring real world ethics with comic books, as in comics this is a subject that just doesnt come up. No hero quits for good in the comics. They die, they train a replacement when they get too old, they sometimes take breaks if they just got hit with some horrific drama, but they dont quit.

Why dont they quit? It certainly isnt because someones holding a gun to their head and telling them they are abhorrent monsters for not wanting to do it anymore, its because they chose to. Everyone has free will, and it isnt your place to judge someone who has faithfully protected a city for years and years if he should decide he has had enough. He has the right to choose. Having power doesnt mean you have no choice but to use it till the day you die, it just gives you more options on what you can choose to do.

And yeah its unheroic, thats kinda the point. He doesnt want to BE a hero anymore.

[Gaius Marius]

Another important point is that, ultimately, you don't want your hero to become cynic and bitter. It might be the better move, long-term, to let him quit when he feels like it and be allowed to come back when he will feel like it rather than compelling him to do it forever.

After all, I he genuinely is our only hope, the last thing you want is to see him eventually turn on you.

[Flickerdart]

That would also have been an interesting way to do a role reversal - Metro Man becomes jaded and cynical, and starts demanding more and more from the city for its protection, until Megamind is forced to intervene to stop him from destroying the city that's "rightfully his". And also before he gets angry enough to just kill or cripple Megamind instead of putting him in jail. Given that we have no idea how long these people live, it could have been a few centuries of gradual decay instead of just "oh hey, gonna go play guitar now".

[Sarco_Phage]

Everyone has free will, and it isnt your place to judge someone who has faithfully protected a city for years and years if he should decide he has had enough.

Of course it's my place to judge. :smallamused:

It's everyone's place to judge. Our collective judgments compose our cultural makeup! :) If we couldn't judge because "oh you don't know what it's like", then we wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on food if we don't know how to cook, an opinion on good government if we have never governed, an opinion on law if we are not legal experts.

And my judgment on Metroman is that it is irresponsible for him to decide "he has had enough". That disagrees with your judgment, and that's cool, because people can have differing opinions, which is also a part of our cultural makeup.

[Traab]

Of course it's my place to judge. :smallamused:

It's everyone's place to judge. Our collective judgments compose our cultural makeup! :) If we couldn't judge because "oh you don't know what it's like", then we wouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on food if we don't know how to cook, an opinion on good government if we have never governed, an opinion on law if we are not legal experts.

And my judgment on Metroman is that it is irresponsible for him to decide "he has had enough". That disagrees with your judgment, and that's cool, because people can have differing opinions, which is also a part of our cultural makeup.

Pfft, I dont know what kind of crazy hippie lovey dovey world you think you live in, but on THIS planet, MY opinion is the one that counts! All dissenting opinions are treated as they deserve, as signs of mental issues only treatable by shock therapy.

[Sarco_Phage]

Pfft, I dont know what kind of crazy hippie lovey dovey world you think you live in, but on THIS planet, MY opinion is the one that counts! All dissenting opinions are treated as they deserve, as signs of mental issues only treatable by shock therapy.

Die, monster! You don't belong in this world!

[Dvandemon]

You are responsible for your own actions. Megamind's "evilness" came only because he didn't had friends in school? What, he never met nerds in High School or what?

Metroman was who he was, and just because he could stop Megamind, he apparently HAD to. Ever. And ever. And ever.

Until one of them dies.

Metroman had every right to turn away. And it certainly wasn't an immoral act, but merely an unethicalon, just closer to the lower end of the Lawful-Chaotic alignment scale.

Well, he was raised in a prison by criminals (why the Warden didn't take him away is probably for the sake of the story). Since they didn't really show Megamind doing anything too terrible when he took over the city, Metroman didn't shouldn't have too many scruples over disappearing.

[Warlawk]

This thread has gone pretty far afield.

It's a kids movie. It ignores things like realism and real life concerns such as the military sending in a sniper team to deal with this would be dictator setting up shop inside their borders.

If you look at it within the context of the movie, the city is actually better off. The people aren't suffering under mastermind, in fact the city ended up being cleaned up and overall better off. The only real difference pre vs post Metroman is that post Metroman, the city doesn't get torn up on a regular basis from the two of them fighting.

Not only is the city cleaner and better kept, there are no regular super battles tearing the place up. Sounds like the citizens are actually better off, aside from the lamenting of their terrible fate that completely ignores the facts.

[Sarco_Phage]

This thread has gone pretty far afield.

It's a kids movie. It ignores things like realism and real life concerns such as the military sending in a sniper team to deal with this would be dictator setting up shop inside their borders.

Technically, it's also a Silver Age sendup.... which also would ignore the possibility of a government sniper team. Because while that makes sense, it wouldn't be fun. :smalltongue:

[Dienekes]

Umm, wasn't the whole point of the girl walking down the street after discovering Megamind's true identity with all the trash appearing supposed to show that no, the city was not better kept, Megamind was just hiding all the dirt to impress what's her name.

Now, there is the argument for less destruction of the city with Megamind, but there was definitely way more with Tighten.

[Sarco_Phage]

Umm, wasn't the whole point of the girl walking down the street after discovering Megamind's true identity with all the trash appearing supposed to show that no, the city was not better kept, Megamind was just hiding all the dirt to impress what's her name.

Now, there is the argument for less destruction of the city with Megamind, but there was definitely way more with Tighten.

His idea of "housecleaning" was "dehydrate the problem and maybe it'll go away". It was pretty funny, actually.

[thorgrim29]

Recently saw the movie, thought it was great, must have re watched the last few scenes half a dozen times.

IMO, the city under Megamind's rule has it pretty bad for the short time he's in charge, but since he didn't want to actually do anything with it other then have fun for a short while, I'm sure he'd have eventually left it more or less alone (or let Minion handle it for the same results). Metro Man probably knew this (as evidenced by the last scene), I mean how many times could he have killed hundreds of people (most of them Roxanne:smallsmile:), but didn't and played within the conventions of their rivalry?

[Theodoriph]

Metroman's logic was sound.

If there's evil, good will rise up to combat it. If Metroman gets tired of fighting evil, he can just disappear, knowing that some kid is going to mutate, come from outerspace, appear in this alternate reality etc. to save the day once more. Because that's just part of the whole superhero genre.

And sure enough, the next time the city was in danger, a hero was there.

Metroman was just genre savvy.


Edit: Also, the donkey kong training scene was one of my favourites.

[Obrysii]

That would also have been an interesting way to do a role reversal - Metro Man becomes jaded and cynical, and starts demanding more and more from the city for its protection, until Megamind is forced to intervene to stop him from destroying the city that's "rightfully his". And also before he gets angry enough to just kill or cripple Megamind instead of putting him in jail. Given that we have no idea how long these people live, it could have been a few centuries of gradual decay instead of just "oh hey, gonna go play guitar now".

That's basically what happened with Tighten - he was jaded and power-drunk, and decided the city wasn't worth keeping around. It was "rightfully his" because might makes right, and decided it should be destroyed as punishment for his loser life.

I'm pretty sure that if Roxanne didn't out-right reject him, he wouldn't've gone off the deep end - though I'm also pretty sure any sane woman would reject him ...

[Bouregard]

@ all the people firmly believing a sniper could take out a super villian any day:
(Watch the Venture Brothers)

Imagine a guy who can make lasercannons out of paperclips and an old cellphone or a teleporter out of a dumpster but likes to play his way of good and evil. Villian versus Hero, he likes it, even when the hero wins and he gets a beating. Now we will apply superior force to it. Snipe the mad genius. Now all those raving mad villians will ask themselves... "They killed Megamind... what happens if I'm next?"
They will start to protect themselves. Kill and murder to reduce the number of hostages and people willing to stand up to them. If you just fight for fightings sake the Evil Overlord list makes perfect sense. But if they start to feel threatened well you suddenly got a bunch of super-robots-controling, deathray-armed lunatics on the loose that are now serious about their wellbeing...

[Flickerdart]

That only makes sense if there's more than one supervillain, which we can't assume is the case for this universe.

[VanBuren]

It's not about "owing" the world anything, bro. :smallamused: If you keep on thinking in terms of "debt" and "owing" and "what you want", you won't get anywhere, and instead end up sounding like someone who feels entitled to something - in effect, that the world owes YOU something.

In the context of something outside your life, your needs are largely immaterial, especially if you are capable of what Metroman, or any superhero, is capable of.

Except here's the problem: If you burn yourself out by helping everyone while neglecting yourself... eventually you're not going to be of use to anyone. Which is what happened here. By making Metroman bear all the weight, they burned him until he was incapable of bearing it any longer.

[Sarco_Phage]

Except here's the problem: If you burn yourself out by helping everyone while neglecting yourself... eventually you're not going to be of use to anyone. Which is what happened here. By making Metroman bear all the weight, they burned him until he was incapable of bearing it any longer.

No.

Did you watch the movie, man? He wasn't incapable of bearing it. He was bored fighting Megamind over and over again, doing the same dance over and over again. Protecting the city was something incidental to that endless tango.

Frankly, I don't think it's possible for Metroman to have neglected himself. Did you see how fast he was moving? He literally lives between heartbeats. He had enough time during their "final" battle to do some serious brooding.

I reiterate - he wasn't tired. He was bored.

[Seerow]

No.

Did you watch the movie, man? He wasn't incapable of bearing it. He was bored fighting Megamind over and over again, doing the same dance over and over again. Protecting the city was something incidental to that endless tango.

Frankly, I don't think it's possible for Metroman to have neglected himself. Did you see how fast he was moving? He literally lives between heartbeats. He had enough time during their "final" battle to do some serious brooding.

I reiterate - he wasn't tired. He was bored.

To be fair, the super speed Metroman demonstrated there had to have been exaggerated. If Tighten had that kind of speed, Megamind would have been dead before he could react to it.

[The Glyphstone]

To be fair, the super speed Metroman demonstrated there had to have been exaggerated. If Tighten had that kind of speed, Megamind would have been dead before he could react to it.

Or he just hadn't figured out how to use it. He didn't have Metroman's flight proficiency either, after all.

[Jallorn]

No.

Did you watch the movie, man? He wasn't incapable of bearing it. He was bored fighting Megamind over and over again, doing the same dance over and over again. Protecting the city was something incidental to that endless tango.

Frankly, I don't think it's possible for Metroman to have neglected himself. Did you see how fast he was moving? He literally lives between heartbeats. He had enough time during their "final" battle to do some serious brooding.

I reiterate - he wasn't tired. He was bored.

There's more than one kind of "burned out," trust me, I know. In this case, Metroman was emotionally burned out, he just couldn't care anymore. Luckily for him, he found a solution: walk away.

[Deme]

To be fair to Metroman here... He'd be doing this song and dance, sort of jostled around by fate, for his entire life: he didn't choose it. The world chose it for him, and until that moment of real contemplation, he had been playing along. It's a little unfair to ask him to sacrafice his whole life against his will... And maybe he realized that Megamind was, in a strange way, not as evil as he really thought he was. After all, Megamind was in the same position he was, his villainy decided basically the moment he landed.

It happens in the real world: people whose roles in life are chosen for them before they can understand it, in a roughly modern world, will rebel sooner or later, or at least want to. even if people are relying on them to do it. Metroman's behavior makes perfect sense, really.

...Also, I looooved this movie.

[Kris Strife]

Did Metroman have a real secret identity before he faked his death? I haven't seen it yet, but it's on my list of movies to watch.

[Theodoriph]

Did Metroman have a real secret identity before he faked his death? I haven't seen it yet, but it's on my list of movies to watch.

Nope. He was Metroman 7 hours a day, 24 days a week.

[Kris Strife]

Nope. He was Metroman 7 hours a day, 24 days a week.

Then that was likely the problem. Superman at one point said he needed the Clark Kent identity, because then he could be just himself for a while, that he knew he'd break if he tried to be Superman 24/7.

[Tyndmyr]

Can either Megamind or Metroman even have children? You know, alien physiology. :smallamused:

And obviously, yes. If you're the only one who can do a job that needs doing, then you do it. Only a selfish fish would do otherwise.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

In my point of view, the people that demand that he spend his life serving them are obviously the selfish ones.

If you chip in and help people a bit...great. Good work. You're not obligated to continue to do so for the rest of your life. Nor are you selfish for not doing so.

[Obrysii]

To be fair, the super speed Metroman demonstrated there had to have been exaggerated. If Tighten had that kind of speed, Megamind would have been dead before he could react to it.

I assumed it was a take on the fact Superman is powered by yellow sunlight, that Metroman being hit by the full force of the sun in that energy beam amped up his speed, power, etc by x1000.

[Flickerdart]

I assumed it was a take on the fact Superman is powered by yellow sunlight, that Metroman being hit by the full force of the sun in that energy beam amped up his speed, power, etc by x1000.
Except he was never actually hit by the ray. He was running around before the laser charged, and was only anywhere near the explosion when he flung the skeleton.

[Brother Oni]

I hope you're being sarcastic.

In my point of view, the people that demand that he spend his life serving them are obviously the selfish ones.

If you chip in and help people a bit...great. Good work. You're not obligated to continue to do so for the rest of your life. Nor are you selfish for not doing so.

Depends on the cultural bias.

Suppose we transplanted the Megamind setting to Japan. Metroman would be almost universally vilified as he's shirking his duty, a value that's very important to the Japanese.
Similarly, Megamind would also be an outsider to all except the younger generation because he's so different, both physically and behaviourally. Being a supervillian is almost secondary to that.

It's one thing for the people to demand that he serve them, it's another for them to ask for his aid because nobody else can help.

It's not as if he's working as a slave for the people - he appears to have a comfortable home with a decent standard of living, plus given the almost universal adoration, I highly doubt that anybody would take money from him if he did offer to pay.

[Gaius Marius]

It's not as if he's working as a slave for the people - he appears to have a comfortable home with a decent standard of living, plus given the almost universal adoration, I highly doubt that anybody would take money from him if he did offer to pay.

So the chains are made or gold rather than iron.

It's still chains.

[Dienekes]

The defense of human life is more important than some single individual being happy. It always is. Those are the chains that every individual should have on them, whether they're gilded or not.

I don't blame Metroman for wanting a break, I blame him for not taking down the sociopath when it looked like he was the only one who could.

[VanBuren]

The defense of human life is more important than some single individual being happy. It always is. Those are the chains that every individual should have on them, whether they're gilded or not.

It's an easy thing to declare when you're not the one chained up.

[Sarco_Phage]

So the chains are made or gold rather than iron.

It's still chains.

Again, this obsession you people have with personal freedom is mildly confusing. One person's individual freedom and happiness is nothing in the face of a larger good.

[Dienekes]

It's an easy thing to declare when you're not the one chained up.

A very fair assessment. But those are my morals, they're what is engrained in my mind as what is right. It's possible that I'd fail them, but that is my failing. I would expect to be judged for my failing just as I am judging Metroman for his.

[TheArsenal]

Generally, for me it has always been Pixar:#1, Dreamworks: #2.

Megamind was OK, and so was how to train your dragon, but I still find Pixar better.

[VanBuren]

Again, this obsession you people have with personal freedom is mildly confusing. One person's individual freedom and happiness is nothing in the face of a larger good.

And who decides what the "larger good" is?

I'll give you a hint, a lot of people have tried. It usually doesn't work out too well.

[Sarco_Phage]

And who decides what the "larger good" is?

I'll give you a hint, a lot of people have tried. It usually doesn't work out too well.

When the larger good is defending a city against a bald blue man, it's pretty clear. :smallwink:

Remember never to divorce something form context.

[TheArsenal]

And who decides what the "larger good" is?

I'll give you a hint, a lot of people have tried. It usually doesn't work out too well.

Prisons for criminals? That works out OK.

Sereiosly whats with the super high mumbo jumbo here? Guy gets tired of Spotlight. Fakes death, comes back from vacation.

[Sarco_Phage]

Prisons for criminals? That works out OK.

Sereiosly whats with the super high mumbo jumbo here? Guy gets tired of Spotlight. Fakes death, comes back from vacation.

I think the super high mumbo jumbo might result from the whole "superhero" thing.

[Traab]

Again, this obsession you people have with personal freedom is mildly confusing. One person's individual freedom and happiness is nothing in the face of a larger good.

Meh, maybe ive just been raised to have a less socialist outlook on individual rights. (This is not meant as political commentary, if its over the line ill delete it) I was raised to believe in the whole rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness that every person is entitled to. Once again, if this kind of comment breaks the politics rule let me know and ill remove it, I just couldnt find a less political way to say my view on the subject.

[Tiger Duck]

MetroMan loved the attention and the love he got from being a hero, even when he was a little kid.

So he was a hero with pretty selfish motives. And that's why he quite the moment he was bored with it.

So from a certain point of view he was never a hero to begin with.

[Sarco_Phage]

I assumed it was a take on the fact Superman is powered by yellow sunlight, that Metroman being hit by the full force of the sun in that energy beam amped up his speed, power, etc by x1000.

Yeah, it never hit him. In the second before the beam fired, Metroman forced the doors open, went out into the city, brooded for a while, came up with the copper idea, and walked leisurely back. Dude is faster than Superman.

[Mystic Muse]

Meh, maybe ive just been raised to have a less socialist outlook on individual rights. (This is not meant as political commentary, if its over the line ill delete it) I was raised to believe in the whole rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness that every person is entitled to. Once again, if this kind of comment breaks the politics rule let me know and ill remove it, I just couldnt find a less political way to say my view on the subject.

Yes. The rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are important. I would say that they are arranged in accordance of their importance. So, your happiness is not more important than somebody's life.

[Traab]

Yes. The rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are important. I would say that they are arranged in accordance of their importance. So, your happiness is not more important than somebody's life.


Ah true, my happiness is not more important than someone elses life. But what about MY life? My liberty? As a super powered being, according to phage, I am forced to spend the rest of my life fighting super villains, no matter what id rather do with my life. Thats basically slavery with a life sentence for me. Being press ganged into a potentially deadly line of work, with no regard for what I want to do is a violation of all three inalienable rights.

[Sarco_Phage]

Heroism does tend to mean sacrifice, you know.

[Traab]

Heroism does tend to mean sacrifice, you know.

Is it really heroism if you are forced into it?

[Mystic Muse]

Ah true, my happiness is not more important than someone elses life. But what about MY life? My liberty?

You still have your life, and no, your liberty is not more important than somebody else's life.

[VanBuren]

You still have your life, and no, your liberty is not more important than somebody else's life.

And which lives did Megamind ever threaten?

[Tiger Duck]

Is it really heroism if you are forced into it?
Not when he is forced no, but he should choose to anyway, because he can.

But as I said, I don't think he ever truly was a hero.

He out classed MegaMind so hard, it was never even a struggle, he just made it seem like it was, to maximize the love of the peoples he got.

[Dienekes]

Is it really heroism if you are forced into it?

If you keep at it and give it your all, yes. You are sacrificing for the good of all, you are a hero. A slave who continues on saving others when given the chance to leave is as heroic if not more than one who never had such a hard choice to make.

[Sarco_Phage]

And which lives did Megamind ever threaten?

No no, Kyuubi is talking in a general sense. I'm the one arguing that Metroman was irresponsible.

[VanBuren]

If you keep at it and give it your all, yes. You are sacrificing for the good of all, you are a hero. A slave who continues on saving others when given the chance to leave is as heroic if not more than one who never had such a hard choice to make.

Doesn't speak well of the slavemasters.

And why is this town so deserving? If Metroman just picked up and moved to a different city... would that be a problem?

[Sarco_Phage]

Doesn't speak well of the slavemasters.

And why is this town so deserving? If Metroman just picked up and moved to a different city... would that be a problem?

Do the other cities have an associated supervillain? Because I somehow doubt it.

[VanBuren]

Actually, you could even make the case that this is tantamount for a form of racism. After all, if Metroman is to be enslaved for the entirety of his life simply due to an accident of birth.

Well, I think we can all see what I'm implying.

[Sarco_Phage]

Actually, you could even make the case that this is tantamount for a form of racism. After all, if Metroman is to be enslaved for the entirety of his life simply due to an accident of birth.

Well, I think we can all see what I'm implying.

An accident of his birth that makes him inherently a deity. :smallwink:

Nice attempted goalpost shift, buddy.

[TheArsenal]

Is it really heroism if you are forced into it?

Technicaly If you take it that way then we should all spend all of our resorces at hand to help the less fortunate. So as a result were all forced.

[Seerow]

An accident of his birth that makes him inherently a deity. :smallwink:

Nice attempted goalpost shift, buddy.

His point is totally valid. Though in this case it's more specie-ism than racism, since I doubt Metroman can be classified as human.

[Sarco_Phage]

His point is totally valid. Though in this case it's more specie-ism than racism, since I doubt Metroman can be classified as human.

No, it's completely invalid. I'm Filipino-Chinese. This particular combination of ethnicities does not give me the power to shoot lasers out of my nostrils or move so fast that the world itself seems still to me.

Metroman? Can.

EDIT: except for the part about laser nostrils.

EDIT2: Okay, maybe he could, who knows. I mean, just because we only ever see Titan using heat vision, doesn't mean Metroman can do heat loogies or whatever.

[Seerow]

No, it's completely invalid. I'm Filipino-Chinese. This particular combination of ethnicities does not give me the power to shoot lasers out of my nostrils or move so fast that the world itself seems still to me.

Metroman? Can.

So it's different when the ethnicity grants special powers?


So if say for example africans were genetically much stronger and had much greater stamina than your average person of ethnicity... does that suddenly make it okay to enslave them, since they can do things that we can't?

[Sarco_Phage]

So if say for example africans were genetically much stronger and had much greater stamina than your average person of ethnicity... does that suddenly make it okay to enslave them, since they can do things that we can't?

No. But the point is that this isn't about enslavement at all. Also, good job explicitly stating what VanBuren was only implying. You should edit that.

---

Enslavement involves forcing someone to do something.

Try forcing someone who is functionally invincible to do something.

This is about responsibility. If you are the only one who can do something that needs doing, as I've said before, then it falls to you to do it. Great power, responsiblity, etcetera.

[TechnOkami]

I am not a fan of Will Ferrell, but I did love his voice acting in this. It seemed to be one of his first sincere, not half-hearted roles.

Another one with an even greater effect like you described: Stranger Than Fiction (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420223/)

[Seerow]

No. But the point is that this isn't about enslavement at all. Also, good job explicitly stating what VanBuren was only implying. You should edit that.

---

Enslavement involves forcing someone to do something.

Try forcing someone who is functionally invincible to do something.

This is about responsibility. If you are the only one who can do something that needs doing, as I've said before, then it falls to you to do it. Great power, responsiblity, etcetera.

So same question but with responsibility instead. Would you say said branch of humanity that has greater strength and endurance has the responsibility to fill the role of manual laborers rather than exploring other talents, because they're better at it than anyone else?


You keep trying to say that Metroman is unique therefore he must do this. It's his responsibility to, and he's terrible for not fulfilling his responsibility. The point that's been made throughout the topic is that just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should have to if they do not want to.

[Tiger Duck]

Seeing as as powerful MegaMan was there really isn't a good reason why he couldn't do both, save the city and practice playing his guitar. He would maybe have to cut down on the show boating, but that didn't even occurred to him.

[Sarco_Phage]

So same question but with responsibility instead. Would you say said branch of humanity that has greater strength and endurance has the responsibility to fill the role of manual laborers rather than exploring other talents, because they're better at it than anyone else?

No such bloody thing. Ethnicity has nothing to do with natural physical or mental abilities. Only crazy racists believe that, to paraphrase Ryan North.


You keep trying to say that Metroman is unique therefore he must do this. It's his responsibility to, and he's terrible for not fulfilling his responsibility. The point that's been made throughout the topic is that just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should have to if they do not want to.

It's not about his being unique. It's about him being the only one capable. That may seem like two similar things to you, so I'll explain it in more detailed terms - but with non-super abilities instead, since as humans, we can't shoot laser beams from our tear ducts.

You are the only one who can reach the jar of cookies. Thus when cookie time comes, it is your responsiblity to get the cookies. Cookies are good for everyone.

Megamind is cookie time. The cookie is the cookie of safety.

EDIT: Also I'm totally with Captain Happy. Metroman is so supremely powerful he could have easily had time for himself - literally all the time in the world, given how fast he moves - and still stop Megamind without effort.

The only real problem is that he'd need a guitar that can withstand him.

[VanBuren]

No such bloody thing. Ethnicity has nothing to do with natural physical or mental abilities. Only crazy racists believe that, to paraphrase Ryan North.

Hence why the post that first described the proposed scenario using the operative word "IF".


It's not about his being unique. It's about him being the only one capable. That may seem like two similar things to you, so I'll explain it in more detailed terms - but with non-super abilities instead, since as humans, we can't shoot laser beams from our tear ducts.

You are the only one who can reach the jar of cookies. Thus when cookie time comes, it is your responsiblity to get the cookies. Cookies are good for everyone.

Megamind is cookie time. The cookie is the cookie of safety.

No, I'm busy with my math homework. Go find a ladder.

^Analogy defeated.

[Sarco_Phage]

However, if we are to extend the analogy using Metroman, you can do your math homework while getting the cookies and also giving your girlfriend a call on the phone. So to speak. :smallamused:

EDIT: That's pretty cool. My analogy supposes a world without ladders, the same way Megamind supposes a world without an effective military or other superheroes.

EDIT2: Come to think of it, Metroman didn't quit because he had math homework. He quit because he had his own jar of cookies.

[VanBuren]

However, if we are to extend the analogy using Metroman, you can do your math homework while getting the cookies and also giving your girlfriend a call on the phone. So to speak. :smallamused:

Well, I didn't want to say anything, but you've been eating an awful lot of cookies lately. You should probably cut down.

:smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Besides, I can't multitask when I'm calling her. She knows.

[Seerow]

No such bloody thing. Ethnicity has nothing to do with natural physical or mental abilities. Only crazy racists believe that, to paraphrase Ryan North.

No such thing, no. But it is hypothetically possible. We can even separate it from skin color/ethnicity if you want. Some people are naturally stronger and more fit than others. Should these people be responsible to fill all labor jobs, no matter how much they hate those jobs?




It's not about his being unique. It's about him being the only one capable. That may seem like two similar things to you, so I'll explain it in more detailed terms - but with non-super abilities instead, since as humans, we can't shoot laser beams from our tear ducts.

But you don't NEED to be able to shoot laser beams out of my tear ducts to deal with Megamind.

[Sarco_Phage]

Yeah? Well it seemed like a requirement, since no one else stepped up to stop him.

In fact, Megamind himself fulfilled the metaphysical void left by the lack of an opposing force.



Well, I didn't want to say anything, but you've been eating an awful lot of cookies lately. You should probably cut down.

:smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Besides, I can't multitask when I'm calling her. She knows.

Well, take a bite from the cookie before speaking so she can't tell you've got your mouth full (of cookies).

[VanBuren]

Yeah? Well it seemed like a requirement, since no one else stepped up to stop him.

In fact, Megamind himself fulfilled the metaphysical void left by the lack of an opposing force.

Yeah, the problem pretty much solved itself.

I guess the moral of the story is that if there's a void, someone is going to be willing to fill it.

[Friv]

Well, I seem to have set off quite the argument.

Having read over everyone's comments, I think I am going to have to qualify my original statement. It's not the mere fact of leaving that drove me nuts about Metroman's decisions.

When Metroman fakes his own death rather than simply retiring, he allows a city's worth of people to mourn him because he's too cowardly to tell them that he's burning out. He lets people who care about him (Roxanne in particular) think that he is dead.

Now, at this point, you can make a strong case that his responsibility isn't really a big thing. Megamind isn't a lethal guy, and Metroman clearly thinks that, given enough time, he'll come around and become a better person. I'm willing to say that he thinks not being there is going to be important for that change to take place.

Once Tighten is on the scene, though, it's a whole new ballgame. At this point, what Metroman does is the equivalent of a guy with a first aid kit seeing someone bleeding out by the side of the road, and walking away because someone else will be by eventually. Yeah, it's not illegal. No, we can't force him to step in and help, and we shouldn't. We shouldn't HAVE to.

He doesn't even step in to support Megamind and Roxanne. He lets them fight Tighten themselves, a villain who is staggeringly stronger than them and who really, honestly, intends to kill a very large number of people, because hiding is more important to him. And then when it's all over, he has the gall to act like this was the only possible outcome.

At this point, I'm not sure that Metroman actually qualifies as a hero. He's not someone who ever put anything on the line to fight Megamind, and he doesn't step up the one time the threat actually requires his response.

[Traab]

You still have your life, and no, your liberty is not more important than somebody else's life.

Yeah I have my life, until my life long slavery of fighting super villains eventually causes my death. Thats the downside to being the hero, you know? Im so busy capturing the bad guys alive over and over again, and all it takes is for them to get lucky once. And what kind of a life is that anyways? Forced to fight to protect the city that enslaved me?

[Xondoure]

Is it really heroism if you are forced into it?

HP7 spoilers:
I'm trying to remember the thing from Harry Potter, Harry's realization that even though his fate is predetermined he does have a choice. It was in fact the difference between walking into the arena proudly or being dragged kicking and screaming. To some people that may not seem like much of a choice, but it was everything. Or something along those lines.

The points as they are so far is
a) at Metroman's speed saving the city from Megamind would be about as time consuming as blinking.
b) When people were actually in danger of being killed and he had the power to stop it he turned away. This is not morally justifiable. He wants to be a musician? Fine. But if a nuclear missile is about to go off and you're the only one able to get to the switch to deactivate it it doesn't matter who you are, you are responsible for all of the death and destruction that occurs due to your inaction.

[faceroll]

I have a question for you- if you could compel or coerce Metroman into continuing fighting Megamind, would you? If you could use coercion to create an incentive structure for Metroman to continue superheroing, would you? I don't mean give him a stern talking to, but to threaten him the way the Law threatens you when you don't pay your taxes.


Depends on the cultural bias.

You can justify some very terrible things with cultural relativism.



So from a certain point of view he was never a hero to begin with.

But he and Megamind got along, sort of. Look at their relationship. Metroman sort of indulged Megamind. Megamind wanted to be Metroman's Joker, but Metroman was like... taking care of an overgrown child or someone with some mental problems.


Heroism does tend to mean sacrifice, you know.

I thought sacrifice made you a hero.


You still have your life, and no, your liberty is not more important than somebody else's life.

In the minute you took to type this, 11 children starved to death.

[Flickerdart]

It is remarkably difficult to punch famine into submission.

[Mystic Muse]

It is remarkably difficult to punch famine into submission.

Especially when you don't have more than 6 USD:smallannoyed:

The comparison isn't even fair. Am I the only one who could have stopped those kids from starving to death? Of course not. Heck, I don't think I even could have done that due to aforementioned lack of funds.

This isn't a fair comparison at all.

Technically, in the movie scenario there were two, but I still don't fall under the same category as Metroman for abandoning a city to die just because I wasn't able to stop kids from starving to death when all I have is six freaking dollars.

[Dienekes]

The way I see it, if you could save those 11 kids by doing 100 push ups in 1 minutes you might not succeed but you better try your hardest to do those 100 push ups. That's your duty as a part of the human race.

Seeing what we did about Metroman and his speed. Taking down Tighten would take a lot less effort than me doing 100 pushups in a minute (I've gotten weak), yet he doesn't even try, and his only excuse is "I don't wanna."

[faceroll]

This isn't a fair comparison at all.

Says the person unwilling to save 12 lives (http://activerain.com/blogsview/1373749/how-much-does-it-cost-to-save-a-childs-life-cost-effective)

[Mystic Muse]

Says the person unwilling to save 12 lives (http://activerain.com/blogsview/1373749/how-much-does-it-cost-to-save-a-childs-life-cost-effective)

There's a difference between being unwilling and not knowing that you can.

[faceroll]

There's a difference between being unwilling and not knowing that you can.

Sure is easy to make justifications when it's your life, eh?

[Mystic Muse]

Sure is easy to make justifications when it's your life, eh?

I'm not going to continue to argue this. I see no reason to when my opponent won't even give me an equivalent situation.

[Sarco_Phage]

Seeing what we did about Metroman and his speed. Taking down Tighten would take a lot less effort than me doing 100 pushups in a minute (I've gotten weak), yet he doesn't even try, and his only excuse is "I don't wanna."

In all fairness, he did justify it to himself fairly well.

[Xondoure]

Sure is easy to make justifications when it's your life, eh?

Which would be fine, you know, if Metroman didn't have the ability to defeat Megamind in the blink of an eye and go on with his life. *Points to nuclear missile button argument again.*

[faceroll]

Which would be fine, you know, if Metroman didn't have the ability to defeat Megamind in the blink of an eye and go on with his life. *Points to nuclear missile button argument again.*

A blink of your eye. For Metroman, a blink of an eye is actually a pretty long time.

But you can easily set up a paypal account and transfer a tiny fraction of your wealth (did you know 10 minutes a week of US minimum wage pay donated can save a child's life?) to help someone else; maybe even save their life.

I don't see why Metroman has such an outrageous burden on him, to always help everyone, all the time, when no one else remotely expects that of themselves.

[Sarco_Phage]

I don't see why Metroman has such an outrageous burden on him, to always help everyone, all the time, when no one else remotely expects that of themselves.

:smallamused:

His burden is to defend the city from Megamind, not unjam your fridge door when you accidentally superglue it shut.

Or, at least that would be his burden if he regarded it as a job instead of an ongoing tango that no longer amused him by the time he quit.

[VanBuren]

:smallamused:

His burden is to defend the city from Megamind, not unjam your fridge door when you accidentally superglue it shut.

Or, at least that would be his burden if he regarded it as a job instead of an ongoing tango that no longer amused him by the time he quit.

But... it was an ongoing tango.

[Xondoure]

A blink of your eye. For Metroman, a blink of an eye is actually a pretty long time.

But you can easily set up a paypal account and transfer a tiny fraction of your wealth (did you know 10 minutes a week of US minimum wage pay donated can save a child's life?) to help someone else; maybe even save their life.

I don't see why Metroman has such an outrageous burden on him, to always help everyone, all the time, when no one else remotely expects that of themselves.

Psssh, that argument only works if I don't hold myself accountable which simply isn't true. I know I do what I can to help others, whether its by donating to a good cause or supporting my community. There's more than one way to have a positive influence on the world around you.
As a society we should be more accountable for helping eachother. However a poorer person is not expected to donate as much as a wealthier person because they have less to spare. This scales, and does not only apply to wealth. In Metroman's case it applies to power. When you can effectively stop time and move mountains; not putting that power to good use is immoral. Metroman may have needed to have time to escape from the constant pressure of his responsibility, thats understanable. But shirking it completely puts millions of lives at risk that wouldn't be. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to find his own meaning in his life, only that there comes a time and place where you need to put that aside and do what you can to help make the world a better place. It doesn't have to be every time and every place, but in those pivotal moments you learn if you really have the strength to be a hero.
Metroman didn't, and personally I found it rather sickening that he was willing to sit and watch while the city burned.

Edit: Also sure its a long time for him, but if he lives just as long as a regular human its proportionally the same ammount of time. Which means he can spend the rest of it doing as he likes.

[TheArsenal]

I was born to a wealthier family therefore I have more power. Does this mean I have to donate all my money? No. Just donate more than average. The swimming pool and home movie theater more than makes up for the request for higher donations.

[Brother Oni]

You can justify some very terrible things with cultural relativism.

I know you can, just as I know that there is discrimination based solely on ethnicity, some of it enshrined in law.

The point that I was trying to make was that Metroman had his duty - to protect the city.

People say that it's unfair for him to be enslaved for the rest of his life, to protect the city until he's either dead or completely burnt out. I don't disagree with that, it is perfectly unfair.
You could argue that he didn't ask for the duty in the first place and it's true, he fell into the role rather than being recruited or called to it.

Neither of which gives him the right to refuse to do his duty.


I guess the moral of the story is that if there's a void, someone is going to be willing to fill it.

A couple years ago, a group of social scientists did a repeat of the Stamford prison experiment. Interestingly enough, the two groups eventually broke down and merged to form a commune style organisation after several near physical altercations between the 'prisoners' and 'guards' group.
After a couple days of this, the ring leaders from the ex-'prisoners' group began to get more aggressive and assertive in controlling the commune, at which point the researchers terminated the experiment.

One of the conclusions was, that in the absence of law and order and a lack of central guiding influence, facism can arise.

Megamind could have very easily gone the other way, not becoming his own force for good, but becoming a complete dictator and despot. The only reason why he didn't - he's basically a nice guy at heart.


Sure is easy to make justifications when it's your life, eh?

You seem to be proposing that people pauper themselves for the sake of others. Should I donate all my wealth, declare bankrupcy and go live on the street along with my wife and children, so that I can feed starving children?

Looking at my bank statement, I spent more money than I earned last month, but I had sufficient reserve to cover myself. A quick tally count indicates that about 90% of the outgoing was for rent, bills and food and with the current economic environment, that isn't likely to change dramatically.

Some people simply don't have a 'tiny fraction of your wealth' to spare.

[Dienekes]

But you can easily set up a paypal account and transfer a tiny fraction of your wealth (did you know 10 minutes a week of US minimum wage pay donated can save a child's life?) to help someone else; maybe even save their life.

Some of us do. So I don't see your point here.


I don't see why Metroman has such an outrageous burden on him, to always help everyone, all the time, when no one else remotely expects that of themselves.

I don't think anyone really says that. I know my first post on the subject stated I was ok with him taking a vacation, everyone needs one. Everyone needs one. However, when things got serious, when someone did come up who was a destructive sociopath he turned his back on humanity. That is what I have a problem with.


I guess the moral of the story is that if there's a void, someone is going to be willing to fill it.

That's an interesting way to view it. I saw the moral as, if there is a void go fill it.

[faceroll]

Neither of which gives him the right to refuse to do his duty.

So you would advocate some sort of enforcement body to punish Metroman, or any other super-powered person, to spend their life using their powers to help other people?


One of the conclusions was, that in the absence of law and order and a lack of central guiding influence, facism can arise.

That's not fascism. Also, don't bring real world politics into this, please.


You seem to be proposing that people pauper themselves for the sake of others. Should I donate all my wealth, declare bankrupcy and go live on the street along with my wife and children, so that I can feed starving children?

I'm not; you are. You're saying Metroman should devote his life to helping other people because he is so much better off than anyone else.


Looking at my bank statement, I spent more money than I earned last month, but I had sufficient reserve to cover myself. A quick tally count indicates that about 90% of the outgoing was for rent, bills and food and with the current economic environment, that isn't likely to change dramatically.

Yet you can afford a high speed internet connection. What a luxury. That 50 bucks a month could instead be spent to save 1200 children a year from literally pooping themselves to death.


Some people simply don't have a 'tiny fraction of your wealth' to spare.

You aren't among them.

For 10 minutes a week, virtually any Westerner can save a life. That's pretty incredible, don't you think? Are you putting that 10 minutes in?

Look, by fluke of your birth, you have an earning potential and a standard of living many orders of magnitude greater than others.

Why doesn't this apply to you:

The point that I was trying to make was that Metroman had his duty - to protect the city.

People say that it's unfair for him to be enslaved for the rest of his life, to protect the city until he's either dead or completely burnt out. I don't disagree with that, it is perfectly unfair.
You could argue that he didn't ask for the duty in the first place and it's true, he fell into the role rather than being recruited or called to it.

Neither of which gives him the right to refuse to do his duty.

Why do you have a right to refuse your duty?

[Avilan the Grey]

Costumed vigilante? Why can't he join the police force, where he can be a legitimate force for law and order, and perhaps good? :smallwink:

And again, this whole thing of yours with "freedom". On an emotional level I agree, I wouldn't like to be shackled to a certain thing for my life. But intellectually, I realize that's hardly the most rational response. Just because I dislike something that needs doing, doesn't mean I should be lauded for stepping away from it just because I'm tired of doing it.

Funny. I find it to be the opposite; of course I grew up loving Spider-Man.

Emotionally, I feel like you do; it is his responsibility. Logically, and intellectually, however, I realize that he has the right, and obligation, to ask himself what he wants to do, and choose not to do something he is tired of doing.

MusicMan :smallwink: is not more selfish for not wanting to spend the entire life stopping crime (unpaid, at that!) than a person that quits the police force, or choose not to extend his contract with the army. After all these people have the training and resources too, and deliberately choose not to use them anymore.

[Brother Oni]

So you would advocate some sort of enforcement body to punish Metroman, or any other super-powered person, to spend their life using their powers to help other people?

I was speaking from a cultural duty perspective, but it's one that I agree with personally.

Life is inherently unfair, but by accident of birth, Metroman has these abilities, which he has used to help protect the city. He's decided to give up the protection of the city out of apparent boredom, without arranging for someone to take over.
Not only that, but once things hit the fan, he refused to help, instead believing in Megamind to be able to take up the mantle he vacated.

There isn't anybody who can enforce a judgement on Metroman, he only has his own conscience.
The general concensus on this thread is that most don't blame him for wanting to take a break, with the fact that he knows Megamind isn't inherently bad mitigating the circumstances.
What they have issue is, the fact that he refused to help when the situation became dire. The irresponsible part is whether it's because he knew things would sort themselves out as they always have done (as it's a silver age story, it did fortunately), or just hoping and praying it did because he couldn't be bothered.



That's not fascism. Also, don't bring real world politics into this, please.


That comment wasn't addressed to you and I was just re-iterating one of the conclusions of that experiment. It's very well I could have mis-understood the data that lead them to that outcome - I'm not a sociologist.

It was an aid to the comment of the moral of the story of how someone always steps up to fill a void.

However saying not to bring in politics, yet bringing in the issue of Third World charity is naive at best, disingenuous at worst.



I'm not; you are. You're saying Metroman should devote his life to helping other people because he is so much better off than anyone else.

Actually you are - my next point was connected to this one and wasn't intended to be taken out of context.
Metroman should, because nobody else can.



Yet you can afford a high speed internet connection. What a luxury. That 50 bucks a month could instead be spent to save 1200 children a year from literally pooping themselves to death.

I'm posting this from work on a break, but yes, I do have a home internet connection (which doesn't cost 50USD a month - you should hunt around for a better deal). You seem to be applying a double standard though, as you apparently have one yourself, one that could be spent on preventing '1200 children a year from literally pooping themselves to death' (presumably you mean cholera and dysentery).
You'd also have to be practically luddite if you think an internet connection is classed as a luxury for modern life.



You aren't among them.


You can judge my whole personal and financial situation solely from my post history on an internet forum?
You should put that on your cv - you'd be guaranteed a job for life in marketing or with the inteliigence services.



Look, by fluke of your birth, you have an earning potential and a standard of living many orders of magnitude greater than others.


Actually no, not by fluke of birth, but by chance of opportunity and a massive amount of hard work. Both my parents were immigrants, so unless you class having to work 60 hour weeks to have a comfortable standard of living a fluke, I think you can say we earned what we have.



Why do you have a right to refuse your duty?
Outside of certain religious orders, since when is charity is a duty? A virtue, yes, but a duty?

The situation is different however - I'm not the only person who can help.
Metroman is the only person who can.


MusicMan :smallwink: is not more selfish for not wanting to spend the entire life stopping crime (unpaid, at that!) than a person that quits the police force, or choose not to extend his contract with the army. After all these people have the training and resources too, and deliberately choose not to use them anymore.

I perfectly agree, but what if Robocop or Judge Dredd wanted to give up and become, I don't know, a professional RTS player or a stand up comedian?
They are the only person who can fulfil their role and it's not right for them to give up without at least finding a replacement.

[Tyndmyr]

Again, this obsession you people have with personal freedom is mildly confusing. One person's individual freedom and happiness is nothing in the face of a larger good.

The greater good is composed of nothing but a lot of individuals.

So, you make one of them enslaved and miserable to do a job none of them is able or willing to do...great. What happens next time when there's a different job nobody wants to do? Do we take the best person at that job and force him into it? And the next, and the next?

What happens when everyone is miserable to serve the "greater good"?

And this is entirely leaving aside problems like people doing a crappier job when they're forced to do things instead of wanting to do things. It's pretty hard, as a practical matter, to force someone to be a super hero. Someone who doesn't actually want to be one any more is going to do a terrible job faking it.

The point about donating is a good one. I could spend less money on plenty of things. I could stop going to starbucks occasionally, or going out to eat, or buying D&D books, or what have you. There are many ways that I certainly could spend less money, and save lives with it. No doubt many will say that saving lives is more important than enjoying a cup of coffee and a new video game. But why should I have to? Why does someone else's condition or choices obligate me to do anything?*

*I do actually donate to charities occasionally, but I don't feel I'm in any way obligated to do so.

[Sarco_Phage]

So, you make one of them enslaved and miserable to do a job none of them is able or willing to do...great. What happens next time when there's a different job nobody wants to do? Do we take the best person at that job and force him into it? And the next, and the next?

Their damn fault for being the only qualified individuals. :smallamused:

Everyone else's damn fault for not wanting to do the job.

[Tyndmyr]

Their damn fault for being the only qualified individuals. :smallamused:

Everyone else's damn fault for not wanting to do the job.

And what happens when being qualified leads to being a slave?

In such a system, getting qualified at anything sounds like a poor proposition. The smart thing to do, if you're good at things, is to hide that as deeply as possible.

[Sarco_Phage]

In such a system, getting qualified at anything sounds like a poor proposition. The smart thing to do, if you're good at things, is to hide that as deeply as possible.

Metroman: "Oh, I don't get to do the things I want to do. I don't want to save people, I just want to play the guitar!"

[Tyndmyr]

Metroman: "Oh, I don't get to do the things I want to do. I don't want to save people, I just want to play the guitar!"

And what's wrong with that? If the dude wants to play the guitar, why shouldn't he?

Sure, he could save people instead. There are ALWAYS people to save(both in real life and superhero world. They have that in common, at least). If everyone did that, nobody would ever play the guitar.

And that'd be a pretty terrible world.

[Mystic Muse]

And what's wrong with that? If the dude wants to play the guitar, why shouldn't he?

Sure, he could save people instead. There are ALWAYS people to save(both in real life and superhero world. They have that in common, at least). If everyone did that, nobody would ever play the guitar.

And that'd be a pretty terrible world.

That would depend on who it would be playing the guitar. :smallamused:

[Sarco_Phage]

And what's wrong with that? If the dude wants to play the guitar, why shouldn't he?

Sure, he could save people instead. There are ALWAYS people to save(both in real life and superhero world. They have that in common, at least). If everyone did that, nobody would ever play the guitar.

And that'd be a pretty terrible world.

It would be pretty terrible, yes, but that would depend on a context-divorced world.

In the base text, Metroman is the only one - literally - that can put a stop to Megamind at all. However in the real world there will always be with the capability and the will to do a job no one else wants to do, whether the job is saving lives or kicking puppies.

[Tyndmyr]

In context, why couldn't someone else stop Megamind? The dude didn't have super-powers. Mundanes could keep him imprisoned...at least somewhat. Plenty of superheroes have lacked god-like powers.

I'm not seeing the horror of deciding not to be the person to stop him. It isn't there, either in the context of the movie or in the context of the real world.

[Sarco_Phage]

In context, why couldn't someone else stop Megamind? The dude didn't have super-powers. Mundanes could keep him imprisoned...at least somewhat. Plenty of superheroes have lacked god-like powers.

No, see, this is where we're not seeing eye to eye. The text provides us with the assumption that Megamind can't be stopped without a Metroman.

The mundanes can keep him imprisoned, but it's Metroman who gets him there in the first place.

[HalfTangible]

I think that the immorality/morality of Metroman's decision BEFORE Megamind made titan was... pretty much irrelevant. If Metro wanted to quit, well, why not? Megamind scared the city, but he didn't kill or seriously injure anybody [or even do the cliche slave army thing] as far as we know (unless Titan's actions count because Megamind made him a superhuman?) and Metroman thought (correctly) that all they were doing was a game he was no longer having fun with.

On another note: In the scene where Metroman and Megamind exchange banter, i couldn't tell if i was laughing at how quickly they were coming up with counter-arguments, at how lame (inventive, but lame) the lines were, or at just how silly and cliched the whole situation was.

Also:

"Warming up?! THE SUN is warming up?!"

XD

[Brother Oni]

No, see, this is where we're not seeing eye to eye. The text provides us with the assumption that Megamind can't be stopped without a Metroman.

The mundanes can keep him imprisoned, but it's Metroman who gets him there in the first place.

Plus given the relative ease Megamind broke out both times we see in the film, it's just as likely that Megamind stays in prison because he wants to stay home a little while, much like you or me going home to stay with the parents every now and again. :smallbiggrin:

[HalfTangible]

Plus given the relative ease Megamind broke out both times we see in the film, it's just as likely that Megamind stays in prison because he wants to stay home a little while, much like you or me going home to stay with the parents every now and again. :smallbiggrin:

To be fair, a giant gorillabot with a fishead broke him out the second time, and was the reason he escaped the first (he delivered the watch)

End of film:Did anybody else notice that they seem to have pardoned Megamind of 88 consecutive life sentences?

[Mystic Muse]

End of film:Did anybody else notice that they seem to have pardoned Megamind of 88 consecutive life sentences?

I guess they figured "Hey, he's a hero now, and he just beat titan who was more than willing to kill us. Why don't we cut him a little slack? It's not like he ever killed anybody and it's not like he's going to do anything like that again. In fact, if we do put him back in prison, the same thing might happen again."

[VanBuren]

To be fair, a giant gorillabot with a fishead broke him out the second time, and was the reason he escaped the first (he delivered the watch)

End of film:Did anybody else notice that they seem to have pardoned Megamind of 88 consecutive life sentences?

Work-release.

[Brother Oni]

To be fair, a giant gorillabot with a fishead broke him out the second time, and was the reason he escaped the first (he delivered the watch)

End of film:Did anybody else notice that they seem to have pardoned Megamind of 88 consecutive life sentences?

You think that's the only time Megamind's escaped? :smallbiggrin:

As for the ending:

It's not as if anybody has the power to put him back into prison again.
He turned himself in the second time, plus just after he's 'killed' Metroman, the police officers at city hall are so terrified of him, they drop their weapons rather than risk a shot to kill him.

[Gaius Marius]

You think that's the only time Megamind's escaped? :smallbiggrin:

As for the ending:

It's not as if anybody has the power to put him back into prison again.
He turned himself in the second time, plus just after he's 'killed' Metroman, the police officers at city hall are so terrified of him, they drop their weapons rather than risk a shot to kill him.


Or he annuled his own sentences when he was legally in power? :smallbiggrin:

[Tyndmyr]

No, see, this is where we're not seeing eye to eye. The text provides us with the assumption that Megamind can't be stopped without a Metroman.

The mundanes can keep him imprisoned, but it's Metroman who gets him there in the first place.

If you want to go strictly by the theme of the movie, it's that there must always be someone to stop the evil. So, if dude steps down, someone else will take his place. Good still wins. Ergo, nothing wrong with stepping down.

If you ignore that entirely, then there is no particular reason why anyone couldn't take on megamind. He relied on gadgets. Plenty of heroic types have done the same in comic history. Ergo, there is STILL nothing wrong with metroman stepping down.

You don't need a Metroman by any interpretation.

[Lord Thurlvin]

If the movie can provoke this level of discussion, I guess I should make the effort to see it at some point.

[Gaius Marius]

If the movie can provoke this level of discussion, I guess I should make the effort to see it at some point.

Hummm... we probably should have spoilered this discussion... :smallredface:

[Traab]

Hummm... we probably should have spoilered this discussion... :smallredface:


omg, kefka moved the statues!

[Gaius Marius]

omg, kefka moved the statues!

:smalleek:

NOOOOOOOO!!! THAT WILL CAUSE

Aerie to die

[Tiger Duck]

I'm confused. :smallconfused:

What are you lads talking about?

[Traab]

:smalleek:

NOOOOOOOO!!! THAT WILL CAUSE

Aeris to die

Not if snape kills dumbledoore first!


I'm confused.

What are you lads talking about?

Heh, we are just having some fun with "surprise" twists.

[VanBuren]

Not if snape kills dumbledoore first!

What? Didn't you catch it?

It was his sled. It was his sled from when he was a kid.

There, I just saved you two long, boobless hours.

EDIT: Also relevant. http://xkcd.com/109/

[Traab]

What? Didn't you catch it?

It was his sled. It was his sled from when he was a kid.

There, I just saved you two long, boobless hours.

EDIT: Also relevant. http://xkcd.com/109/

Thats true, but I still couldnt believe it when I found out thatvader was lukes father.

also

Rhett didnt give a damn, quite frankly.

[Dienekes]

also

Rhett didnt give a damn, quite frankly.

Yeah, I found that line odd considering he was just saying
Soylent Green is people!

[Traab]

Yeah, I found that line odd considering he was just saying
Soylent Green is people!


Too bad it didnt change the fact that

when he built it, they came.

[Dienekes]

Too bad it didnt change the fact that

when he built it, they came.

True but I wonder how he managed that since he
was a ghost the entire time.

[Traab]

True but I wonder how he managed that since he
was a ghost the entire time.


What made it even harder is that it was the one armed man!

[SiuiS]

On that note,


I was incredibly annoyed for 5 seconds when "Metroman" showed up to fight Tighten. It felt like Megamind's growth as a character and a hero was being completely ignored, and it would have a completely unsatisfying ending.

But then it turned out Megamind just had a heaping helping of testicular fortitude, so it was ok.
If you look closer, you'll see that Megamind's eyes are always the same color. It was a give-away a couple times.


If running away results in the death of innocent people? Of course! Your personal freedom does not outweigh another person's right to live. yes, it's horrible that their freedom has to be sacrificed to make this happen but the benefits outweigh the cost.
That's kind of subjective, Isn't it though? We can say objectively that making that sacrifice is good, not doing so is bad. But whether or not it's worth the cost depends on the guy in question. Does that make sense?

[Fiery Diamond]

Well, I rented and watched Megamind last night as a direct result of reading this thread. I have to say that I agree with those singing the praises of this film. It is definitely up there with The Incredibles; I think it's better. It is one of, if not the, best Dreamworks films I have ever seen. It had good plot, good characters, good humor (the cheesiness of the banter between Megamind and Metro Man was ON PURPOSE on the part of the creators, in case you didn't get it, people who disliked the humor), and it was very moving. I got emotionally involved with it even though I already knew the plot from having read this thread.

***SPOILERS AHEAD***YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED***

I LOVED the character Megamind. He was incredibly naive, which is what caused the disaster with Tighten.

1) His "celebration" at Metro Man's supposed death wasn't really because he was happy but because he was in shock. You can tell that he's upset at Metro Man's death: he's visibly relieved when he thinks Metro Man is flying safely out of the explosion before it turns out to be a "skeleton," his heart-to-heart with Metro Man's statue reveals that it's not just boredom and purposelessness - "I never got the chance to say goodbye."

2) After indulging himself following Metro Man's defeat, he quickly realizes that "having everything he wants" isn't what he wants and never has been. It's been that game of good and evil that he's poured all of his sense of self into. So when he gets the idea of making a new hero from Roxanne, he jumps on it and puts everything into it. He's gained a new purpose: groom a new hero to fight him. However, two unexpected things happen that complicate things: The accidental injection of Hal and him falling in love with Roxanne.

3) Hal AKA Titan/Tighten. Megamind wanted to believe he would become a new hero so badly. That's why he overlooked the obvious signs that Hal was unfit for being a hero during Hal's training. Desire can blind you. When the day of the challenge came, he sent out his call for Titan to come battle him... but when he eventually broke into Hal's apartment he still wasn't expecting what he saw. It completely blindsided him that Hal had turned into a criminal...and now wanted to join Team Villain. This couldn't be! So, he reasoned, if he could make Titan want to fight him, then everything would fall into place as it should. See, even at this point, Megamind still didn't understand the situation. So he revealed all the lies and his dating Roxanne to anger Hal. It made Hal attack him all right, but when Hal revealed that it wasn't a game to him and that he was perfectly willing to kill and destroy people, it shattered Megamind's worldview. Good vs. Evil was a game to him, the idea of real evil wasn't even part of his understanding. He was naive, and having the truth shoved in his face almost broke him entirely.

4) Roxanne. She gave him a new purpose; he had fallen in love. When told that the bad guy never gets the girl by Minion, his response is "Maybe I don't want to be the villain anymore." Roxanne is probably the most intelligent person in the movie - she has a combination of intellect, intuition, and common sense that causes her to outclass Megamind himself in anything that doesn't have to do with technology. She understands Megamind better than anyone else except Metro Man and Minion. She's the one who figures out Megamind created Titan and why. She also, after first reacting to finding out that "Bernard" was Megamind based on the assumption that he had deceived her to mess with her, looks at his expression and realizes that he has actually fallen in love with her and kept up the charade of Bernard because he was scared knowing the truth would drive her away. She's the one who convinces him to fight against Titan, and she does eventually realize that the "Bernard" she grew to love is Megamind's real personality and he does "get the girl."

5) Megamind discovers that he is actually a good guy and saves the day. A happy ending. Notice that Megamind is rebuilding the city during the finale.


Now, Metro Man, on the other hand... he was never a real hero, just a guy playing a role. I don't fault him for wanting to quit, but not stepping back in when Titan was terrorizing everyone was reprehensible.

[Knaight]

Well, I rented and watched Megamind last night as a direct result of reading this thread. I have to say that I agree with those singing the praises of this film. It is definitely up there with The Incredibles; I think it's better. It is one of, if not the, best Dreamworks films I have ever seen.

Dreamworks has pretty low standards, being the best of their films -which I agree with entirely- isn't all that impressive. Concerning being better than the Incredibles, where do you think that is compared to the other work done by Pixar?

[Fiery Diamond]

Dreamworks has pretty low standards, being the best of their films -which I agree with entirely- isn't all that impressive. Concerning being better than the Incredibles, where do you think that is compared to the other work done by Pixar?

That's kind of a difficult judgment; it depends on what kinds of criteria for films we're talking about, and while I think many of us hold Pixar in high esteem we also value their films for different reasons (thus why we might like some films a lot and others not so much but still like Pixar). Lemme go pull up a list of Pixar films and compare...

Right, so, going from the list of Pixar films on Wikipedia which looks like this...

Toy Story
A Bug's Life
Toy Story 2
Monsters, Inc.
Finding Nemo
The Incredibles
Cars
Ratatouille
Wall-E
Up
Toy Story 3

I'd give a ranking of something like this...

[Not Rated because they didn't interest me enough to watch]
Cars, Ratatouille, Wall-E, Toy Story 3

[Listed from best to worst]
Up (Rated high for entertainment&humor, story, and emotional depth)
The Incredibles/Finding Nemo (The first rated high for take on superheroes, entertainment&humor, and story; the second rated high for massive entertainment&humor and emotion)
Monsters, Inc. (Rated moderately good for uniqueness of story and humor)
A Bug's Life (Rated moderate because I liked it as a kid)
Toy Story (Rated moderate because I liked it as a kid)
Toy Story 2 (Rated poor because it lacked any real redeeming qualities and seemed like a parasite on the tale of Toy Story...which is also why I didn't watch Toy Story 3)

So... The Incredibles ranks at #2/3, just below Up and tied with Finding Nemo, not including the movies I haven't watched.

So for me to say that Megamind ranks up with The Incredibles means I thought it was a very good movie. It probably is the best Dreamworks movie made, but I can't really judge that because I don't watch many Dreamworks films.

Edit: "I knew you'd come." "That makes one of us." Great example of weaving humor in with the emotionally profound. Roxanne and Megamind reveal that she had greater faith in Megamind than he had in himself.

Second Edit: Of course, when discussing Dreamworks, I assume we're talking about DreamWorks Animation - the live action Dreamworks does have a couple of gems in amongst the muck, like Paulie, that can compare with Megamind.

[Flickerdart]

WallE is hard to rate, because the first half of the movie was just so much better than the second half.

[Rockphed]

WallE is hard to rate, because the first half of the movie was just so much better than the second half.

Where do you put that divider? I agree that the end is not nearly so good as the beginning, but I want to know where you think the problem falls.

Also, with regards to Dreamworks movies, I think the best one is "How to train your dragon" though Megamind is definitely in the top 5.

[Gaius Marius]

Although I will say that if you haven't seen Ratatouille, it's one of the most light-hearted movie with positive message out there.

An adorable little must-see :-)

[Seerow]

Although I will say that if you haven't seen Ratatouille, it's one of the most light-hearted movie with positive message out there.

An adorable little must-see :-)

Seconded, I was very skeptical of Ratatouille when I first heard about it, but when I got around to watching it cause a friend had rented it, I was impressed. It's one of those movies that sounds disappointing, but is actually great.


On the other hand, I personally enjoyed Megamind more than it, though I'm sure there's people who would disagree with me on Megamind being the better film. *shrug*

[Avilan the Grey]

Dreamworks has pretty low standards, being the best of their films -which I agree with entirely- isn't all that impressive. Concerning being better than the Incredibles, where do you think that is compared to the other work done by Pixar?

I wouldn't say that; it's that they are not as even as Pixar. Kung Fu Panda is one of my top 5 animated films of all time, for example. Shrek 4... not so much (I adore the orginal Shrek, though).

[Venom3053000]

ok so i just rented and watched MegaMind and i have to say it was a great and the music was perfect for it.

I can't get rid of the idea that during the fight between megamind and tightin that if megamind had figure out sooner that tightin was very evil he could have stoped him easy.

[Elrik]

I liked Megamind alot. Wasn't a fan of the David Cross character (Minion just felt like he wasn't carrying it as much as the other characters were) and Titan/Tighten reminded me of Superboy-Prime, alot, which probably explains why I didn't like him either.

I also like Metroman, and how he wasn't just a brainless, completely egotistical jerk like I thought. Instead he was a slightly naive and good hearted, while still being a bit of a jerk in his school days it looks like he's grown out of it a little. It seemed like he did care about Megamind at the end, though.

[Knaight]

It seemed like he did care about Megamind at the end, though.[/SPOILER]

You do realize that, at the end, the "Metroman" that showed up was Megamind in disguise?

[Brother Oni]

You do realize that, at the end, the "Metroman" that showed up was Megamind in disguise?


I think he means at the very end when Metroman shows up in the crowd while Megamind is up on the stage.