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The Oakenshield
2011-04-06, 07:38 PM
The Deathwatch RPG sounds great, but my players think the game will be too limited to justify the rather hefty price tag, and the effort in learning a new system. (They are all familiar with Space Marines and 40K fluff.)

Has anyone played and can give feedback on their experience? That would be great.:smallsmile:

king.com
2011-04-07, 06:02 AM
The game is a very combat focused rpg, your space marines. No, more acurrately, your a group of marines who are designed to be an exterimination squad.

It can be used as part of a larger scenario with an overarching narrative but from my limited experience i could see it getting boring very quickly. Great for one offs or as part of a dual game (with the players having a space marine and a dark heresy character going), one set of characters investigate, the other exterminates.

The Glyphstone
2011-04-07, 08:55 AM
DW is fantastic, and very much to the feel of 'movie marines' or marines in te novels. You're almost unstoppable gods of death, but most things you fight are just as deadly. Gameplay wise, it's extremely rocket-tag (literally, with bolters :smallbiggrin:), since you can one or two-shot anything except a boss, and they can oneshot you back. The boss will onehot multiple party members/round, or get oneshot by the entire party ganging up on him.

It's perfectly workable for an investigative game on its own - ondeed, that's one of the few ways to make the game somthing other than rocket-tag-fest - though I like the idea of a dual campaign for DH/DW.

FelixG
2011-04-08, 05:19 AM
It gets old fast.

"Go kill things."

"Go kill things."

"Sneak into this place THEN kill things."

Repeat until everything is dead or the squad is dead...

...at which point they become dreadnaughts and keep killing things till they are dead...er? provided you have rites of battle anyway! :smallbiggrin:

Rogue Trader is generally a game I much prefer as it is right in the middle of the power scale (supposedly) between Dark Heresy and Deathwatch.

Comet
2011-04-08, 05:45 AM
You can do all kinds of things with Deathwatch, not only slaughter. You could do investigation or such, or just play out the day to day life of the marines in their down time. They have an interesting warrior culture going on.

The book itself, though, I found out to be a bit of a disappointment. There's a whole lot of stuff just copied from Dark Heresy, and not just rules at that, and the information on the different marine chapters and such is stuff that I already knew through the Internet and other sources. Blood Angels are angry and Dark Angels are mysterious and all that, not really mindblowing.

Compared to, say, Dark Heresy where you could do years and years of gaming just based on the various conspiracies and factions within the Inquisition. I just felt that DH had more depth to it, when it came to the writing itself. It was a genuine joy to read through it and find all these new things that I had no idea about, since the Inquisition and the little people of the Imperium don't get much exposure in the mainstream 40k stuff.

edit: Was it just my copy, or did anybody else spot a hilarious amount of typos in Deathwatch? It was sort of awkward.

FelixG
2011-04-10, 03:38 AM
I have spotted a number of typos in Deathwatch, Rogue Trader: Into the storm, and Rogue Trader: BFK

Also Space Marines wouldnt be that great for information gathering...people see a hulking guy in power armor they are gona know whats up and that they either cooperate or die...

Now a DH game mixed with DW is a fun idea, have the DH folk running around doing the footwork and gathering the info for a mission then sending in the DW marines to execute it.

The Glyphstone
2011-04-10, 09:25 AM
Mingling with the peons, no - Space Marines suck at that sort of thing. They can do detective work that doesn't require talking to people, though, and scouting a heavily fortified xeno/heretic base, on the other hand, is precisely what they can be very good at, even with power armor. The Acheros Crusade always needs forward intel, and a Kill-Team is perfect for that with the bonus of being able to cause significant havoc against targets of opportunity.

A low-combat, diplomatic-style mission is called out in the book as one of the possible themes for an assignment though, and the first part of The Emperor Protects (the published module) does it as good as I think it could be done. There's slaughter and facebeating, for sure, but also a good bit of negotiation and working around or through a primitive culture on tiptoes, mixed in with a bit of detective work. Also wrestling tyrannosaurs naked, but that's a bonus.

king.com
2011-04-10, 07:47 PM
The big problem is Glyph, is that why would a deathwatch kill team be sent in to do anything other than...well.... kill?

I honestly cant see myself running a long term DW campaign (great for one offs) while on the other hand, I have a hundred ideas for DH or RT. I guess though thats just the way i perceive the system, and knowning my players, they'll turn the game into a sledgehammer contest.

The Glyphstone
2011-04-10, 07:58 PM
The big problem is Glyph, is that why would a deathwatch kill team be sent in to do anything other than...well.... kill?

I honestly cant see myself running a long term DW campaign (great for one offs) while on the other hand, I have a hundred ideas for DH or RT. I guess though thats just the way i perceive the system, and knowning my players, they'll turn the game into a sledgehammer contest.

In TEP, they're sent because the Imperium needs emissaries awesome enough to convince the Aurumites (who make Catachans look like punks) that the Imperium is worth joining voluntarily, rather than wasting resources in a war of pacification. Thus, Space Marines are the best choice. A kill-team could be sent onto a Space Hulk or a dead alien tomb world to search for or retrieve something valuable. They could be assigned as bodyguards to a radical Ordos Xenos inquisitor negotiating with a xeno species to stay out of the Imperium's way (very fun RP potential, with how it'd grate on an Astartes's indoctrination)

You can't really run DW as a traditional campaign in the sense of amassing loot, because Requisition resets, but treat it as a string of connected oneshots of increasing difficulty with the same party and it works perfectly.

king.com
2011-04-11, 10:27 PM
In TEP, they're sent because the Imperium needs emissaries awesome enough to convince the Aurumites (who make Catachans look like punks) that the Imperium is worth joining voluntarily, rather than wasting resources in a war of pacification. Thus, Space Marines are the best choice. A kill-team could be sent onto a Space Hulk or a dead alien tomb world to search for or retrieve something valuable. They could be assigned as bodyguards to a radical Ordos Xenos inquisitor negotiating with a xeno species to stay out of the Imperium's way (very fun RP potential, with how it'd grate on an Astartes's indoctrination)

You can't really run DW as a traditional campaign in the sense of amassing loot, because Requisition resets, but treat it as a string of connected oneshots of increasing difficulty with the same party and it works perfectly.

DH has never been about amassing loot, only rogue trader has that goal in mind and it works though producing allies and resources rather than direct rewards.

If you can only run it as a string of scenarios i can see it getting somewhat uninteresting, atleast on its own especially when comparing it to another system. Take say DH, you can talk, shoot, steal, interrogate your way out of a situation based on the party composition. DW is sorta limited to shoot or use your techmarine on it. It becomes a combat based game which is fine but its not necessarily something people who like the other WH40K games would like.

Talkkno
2011-04-11, 11:06 PM
DW is sorta limited to shoot or use your techmarine on it. It becomes a combat based game which is fine but its not necessarily something people who like the other WH40K games would like.

Have you read the Emperor Protects by any chance?

king.com
2011-04-12, 04:42 AM
Have you read the Emperor Protects by any chance?

No I have not but it has been mentioned to me above.

The Glyphstone
2011-04-12, 07:46 AM
No I have not but it has been mentioned to me above.

It might be worth a look then - it's the only major published module FFG has put out (aside from minor oneshot scenarios), consisting of three interlinked and consecutive adventures. It's absolutely crammed full of all the RP, skill-use, and stuff other than 'shoot it or Tech-Use it' that you're under the impression DW lacks. Heck, whether your party is good at talking to people or not can potentially ignite a war with the planet you're on, which has repercussions in a later scenario by reducing your Requisition rating.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-12, 07:56 AM
It might be worth a look then - it's the only major published module FFG has put out (aside from minor oneshot scenarios), consisting of three interlinked and consecutive adventures. It's absolutely crammed full of all the RP, skill-use, and stuff other than 'shoot it or Tech-Use it' that you're under the impression DW lacks. Heck, whether your party is good at talking to people or not can potentially ignite a war with the planet you're on, which has repercussions in a later scenario by reducing your Requisition rating.

"You caused a SYSTEM-WIDE CIVIL WAR, and for this you must be punished. We're taking away your flamers."

The Glyphstone
2011-04-12, 08:12 AM
"You caused a SYSTEM-WIDE CIVIL WAR, and for this you must be punished. We're taking away your flamers."

:smallbiggrin:

Technically, it's because the SYSTEM-WIDE CIVIL WAR is using up a lot of resources, and so there's less available for the DW to siphon off. But yeah.

king.com
2011-04-12, 08:32 AM
:smallbiggrin:

Technically, it's because the SYSTEM-WIDE CIVIL WAR is using up a lot of resources, and so there's less available for the DW to siphon off. But yeah.

Seems like the person who should be punished is the guy who sent marines in on their own. Hell, all it sounds like you need is 1 person with a refractor field.

Problem with buying the book is, do i want to spend that much money on something my group may or may not like when there is stuff out there I know i like ? For me the Rogue Trader stuff is of far more value. If you say you can do as much as you can in Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader as you can in Deathwatch, i've not seen enough to say its impossible. I just know that if you give all your players sledgehammers, they tend to treat every problem like a gigantic nail.

The Glyphstone
2011-04-12, 08:46 AM
The issue is in baseline power scale thing, really - DH and RT encourage the sneaking, bargaining, and skullduggery because you're all about as fragile as issue paper and everyone is carrying switchblades. DW has the options for that same stuff, and tries to encourage it, but the difference is that you're as fragile as steel plating, and everyone is carrying industrial strength welding torches. You're more likely to survive a screwup by virtue of hoping you beat the opponents in initiative and murderizing them on turn 1.

It's actually a bit problematic in that they scaled up the damage much higher than they scaled up the health and armor, so it's even easier to go from full health to critical damage in a single attack despite being an 8-foot superhuman killing machine than it is a normal human - risky, except your enemies are just as fragile, so you can survive a botched sneaking/bargaining attempt by having good Agility. The FFG forums are riddled with discussions on houserules to reduce weapon damage across the board to make combat less of a rocket-propelled bullet tag contest.

In the end, it's what the group is comfortable with. Marines aren't relatively that much more survivable than Throne Agents or Rogue Traders, they're just more likely to live by being the first one to lay down the hurt when things go ploin-shaped. Sledgehammers and nails indeed, but that's really dependent on your players.

Lord Herman
2011-04-12, 04:55 PM
Hmm, this dual DH/DW idea sounds interesting. I've just started running a DH game, and I might yoink that idea for later in the story.

How adaptable is the Deathwatch book for other Space Marine-related things? Could I, for example, run a game with a squad of Grey Knights? Or a regular Astartes squad?

The Glyphstone
2011-04-12, 05:32 PM
Grey Knights would be hard (they're even more badass than Deathwatch marines), but there's nothing stopping you from using it for ordinary Astartes. Remove the free Deathwatch Training talent at chargen, and don't let characters choose advances off the Deathwatch Advance Table. You've still got the General Space Marine Advances, the Specialty-specific advances, and the Chapter-specific advances, easily enough to take you all the way through your career.

king.com
2011-04-12, 10:26 PM
Hmm, this dual DH/DW idea sounds interesting. I've just started running a DH game, and I might yoink that idea for later in the story.

How adaptable is the Deathwatch book for other Space Marine-related things? Could I, for example, run a game with a squad of Grey Knights? Or a regular Astartes squad?

If you want grey knights, jsut wait for the Dark Heresy Demon Hunters suppliment thats coming out soon. It contains rules for Grey Knights though I can only assume they are designed for running with Ascension level games.

Lappy9000
2011-04-12, 10:29 PM
This game is quite amazing. I'm not a huge 40k buff, but I know enough to get by. I just wanted mow through enemies blasting off missiles from an oversized bolt launcher fired from an 8-foot tall superhuman with enhanced senses, incredible strength, and the ability to spit acid.

The game delivers.

profitofrage
2011-04-12, 10:35 PM
I really hope they dont release a suppliment that lets you be grey knights.
Although It would be extremly awesome to be one, I just dont think they will ever be able to mechanically represent there fluff well enough to do them justice.
Sort of like how I never think DreadNoughts should be stated, If they show up it should effectivly be a cutscene....watching as the invulnerable super warrior preforms feats a normal space marine could never match while displaying ten times the sheer power in each blow. These are characters that high level PC's shoud brush up against so they remember that no matter how good they get..theres that tier above them that they cannot ever conceivably match.

I have a feeling it will just end up like ascension is to DH. Indeed it needs that same tier distinction...but I dont want it to be as broken.

Destro_Yersul
2011-04-12, 11:03 PM
It's already in the works. Daemon Hunter, the next Dark Heresy book, has Grey Knights in it.

They've statted dreadnaughts too, in one of the DW supplements.

The Glyphstone
2011-04-12, 11:15 PM
Sort of like how I never think DreadNoughts should be stated, If they show up it should effectivly be a cutscene....watching as the invulnerable super warrior preforms feats a normal space marine could never match while displaying ten times the sheer power in each blow. These are characters that high level PC's shoud brush up against so they remember that no matter how good they get..theres that tier above them that they cannot ever conceivably match.

I have a feeling it will just end up like ascension is to DH. Indeed it needs that same tier distinction...but I dont want it to be as broken.


Be sad - Dreadnaught is a Alternate Career Path in Rites of Battle. It's not as bad as you think though, because they're far from Space Marines+. They absolutely own anything in direct combat, but at the cost of calling down Exterminatus on subtlety, stealth, or any sort of social interactions. It's basically noted that the Dreadnaught Specialization is basically a complicated way for a character to become an NPC, since 90% of Kill-Team missions involve going places or doing things a giant slow stompy robot simply can't.

There's an entertaining NPC in Rites of Battle, Goremann the Elder, who effectively sums this up; he was a skilled Kill-Team operative until being crippled and Dreadnaughted, but finding himself stuck on Fortress Erioch as a tactical advisor and analyst most of the time because Deathwatch Dreadnaughts are so rarely needed. His adventure hook involves him asking one of the players, or the Kill-Team collectively, to get permission to go investigate an anomaly that seems minor and irrelevant. It's probably nothing, but if there turns out to be something big and dangerous there that you'd need a Dreadnaught to fight, it's a very good thing that Goremann just so happened to be standing by armored and powered up in his teleport pod while monitoring them.:smalltongue:

Weirdly, Librarians are forbidden from becoming Dreadnaughts. Yet after being interred in the sarcophagus, they can spend XP on Psy Rating and Psychic Technique advances. Bwuh?

FelixG
2011-04-14, 04:52 AM
You forgot to mention the worst of the downsides...

You can only become a dread when you have 0 fate points!!!!

SO you have to screw up a few times to even get there in the first place, and the emperor protect you if you should ever need a reroll...

Also, no dodging...Though the idea of a DN pulling a Neo like matrix move to dodge bolter fire tickles me in a way that makes me feel like i just hugged papa nurgle. :smalleek:

Lord Herman
2011-04-14, 05:03 AM
I'll have to check Daemon Hunters out, then. Thanks for the answers, guys! :smallsmile:

The main thing that worried me about the 40k RPG system was that it wouldn't let me go outside the box they'd proscribed in the book, but it looks like that's not entirely true. I can play an Imperal Guard game if I jolly well want to.

Speaking of which, is there a Commissar career path or something in any of the supplements?

FelixG
2011-04-14, 05:09 AM
the Inquisitors Handbook for DH has the silver chalice commiserate if I remember correctly. Not a true commissar but its close!

king.com
2011-04-14, 07:10 AM
I'll have to check Daemon Hunters out, then. Thanks for the answers, guys! :smallsmile:

The main thing that worried me about the 40k RPG system was that it wouldn't let me go outside the box they'd proscribed in the book, but it looks like that's not entirely true. I can play an Imperal Guard game if I jolly well want to.

Speaking of which, is there a Commissar career path or something in any of the supplements?

You can be a member of the Chalice Commissariate (basiclly the Lord Hax, the current Lord Sector for Calixus wanted his own private Commissisariate but since they are an independent body he made his own). Your the Commissar for the Calixus sector's Planetary Defence Force. If your GM allows it though, you could very easily justify the same career path but as a Commissar (though if your playing it remotely in character, your not going to be much help to the party).

Captain Avynn
2012-12-09, 07:50 PM
Good question, and I hope I'm not necroing this thread. I think in the right circumstances, you can add an investigation angle to a Deathwatch Campaign.

I'll give an example: I started my DW campaign using the Final Sanction starter campaign, I modified it here and there for flavor. I incorporated a traitorous Rogue Trader as the primary transport of the first genestealer that caused the genestealer cult to develop. Over the course of the campaign, while trying to find an inquisitor they didn't know was dead, they began finding clues as to when the first genestealers started to show, when the civil unrest begun and things like that.

Next, as we started going into the Oblivion's Edge follow up campaign (again modified), the team started noticing cloaked figures (eldar rangers) fighting both Imperial and Xenos forces. Eventually, the Kill Team will discover that it was the eldar that drew the Tyranids here to buy time for their race to ally with the Tau.

Other means of obtaining research is a surgical, stealthy strike into a cogitator (computer) core, where the team holds off security while a techmarine or someone similarly skilled hacks the servers to find the information they need. Whether the information is something critical for the current mission, implicates a brother of the Deathwatch (in the kill team or not), or even a radical Ordo Xenos inquisitor. These are all ideas that can add intrigue and depth to a campaign that is punctuated by a great deal of finding. And that's not to mention any investigation work that is ordered by an Inquisitor, as most DW Kill Teams are overseen by Inquisitors or Captans. This could allow a begrudging 'Do we have to?' mentality to some players, which would be very in character for a marine having to stoop to the level of a private eye unless they want to anger the Inquisition.

The real trick is, what sort of investigation work would be the sort to actually draw the Deathwatch? If you have someone like a Dark Angel or Blood Raven in the party, this will be easier based on what they are researching. But even then, trying to find a source of a greater threat to the Empire is something that the Deathwatch shouldn't hesitate to gather more information on.

This all boils down to the playing style of the group and the DM however. Also, feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt, as I've only just started playing tabletop RPG's, having run a literal three games in the same campaign. These are just guidelines I put into my additions to the campaign, just to add more flavor then -slay tyranid swarm x, survive, save planet.

Hope this helps!

The Glyphstone
2012-12-09, 09:43 PM
Good question, and I hope I'm not necroing this thread.

Great Modthulhu: Yes, yes you are.