Templates

[Retech]

Are adding templates to player characters a core feature?

Specifically this refers to Pathfinder, but I'm pretty sure it's the same for 3.5 as well. My GM is rather strict about what can be used, so he only uses SRD and core books (PHB, APG) etc.

Also, is there a general formula for CR to LA?

[Cog]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates and http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monsters-as-pcs should have the answers you need. As far as I recall, LA doesn't strictly exist in Pathfinder at all. CR is used to estimate ECL, but that varies with the class levels added on, and always needs DM approval. With the exception of always needing specific approval, PF's system seems to be a lot more monster-PC friendly than 3.5's.

[IthroZada]

Since templates are found in core books, I would say that it most definitely is a core feature.

Edit: I have absolutely no idea how adding a template to a PC in Pathfinder works though.

[Retech]

Thanks for the help!

[Lord Vampyre]

Actually, adding a template is an optional rule. The templates in the MM are intended for use by the DM. However, since they don't make any money by selling their books strictly to DMs, many books meant for the DM found their way into many a player's greedy little hands. :smallbiggrin:

Now, when players find something they feel they should be able to use it. Well, if your DM is going to let you play with it then by all means have fun.

[Cog]

The templates in the MM are intended for use by the DM.
Neither of the SRD sources I linked said any such thing; templates seem to be just as valid for players as any other monster. Are you aware of something contrary to that?

Hm. My first links appear to be a site that includes non-Paizo material. The specific content linked seems to match, though. The official links, for the record: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monstersAsPCs.htmlhttp://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterAdvancement.html#templates.

[Lord Vampyre]

Hm. My first links appear to be a site that includes non-Paizo material. The specific content linked seems to match, though.

It has always been and always shall be that the only book the players have a right to look at is the Player's Handbook. The DMG and the MM have always been intended for use by the DM. Now, once a book is in the stores, anyone can buy it.

Furthermore, read the Player's Handbook about character creation. It fails to mention adding templates to characters or even using a PrC. Thus you can infere that players were not explicitly meant to be able to use the templates in the MM (or anywhere else).

Now, if the DM is willing to allow such things, it is his perogative. I've allowed the use of templates and PrCs in almost all of my games. I'm just saying, players aren't gauranteed the ability to acquire templates without their DM's permission.

[Halae]

Using CR as rough LA in Pathfinder isn't a bad way of doing things. For example:

A troll in pathfinder has 6HD and a CR of 5. This means that, just like in 3.5, the Troll has an ECL of 11.

The Half-Dragon Template Says "CR: +2" this means that, if applied to a player character, it would mean that you have a +2 LA, which is 1 lower than in 3.5.

That section goes further to state that if the DM allows characters with a level adjustment (Note that IF) that every 3 PC levels they take, the LA should be decreased by 1, so a Half-dragon that reaches level 3 (+2) will suddenly only be 3(+1) without any other change, and gains more experience if they are a lower level than the party.

Of course, this is all an optional rule in pathfinder. You are not guaranteed the ability to play anything but the stuff from the Core Book

[Amnestic]

Furthermore, read the Player's Handbook about character creation. It fails to mention adding templates to characters or even using a PrC. Thus you can infere that players were not explicitly meant to be able to use the templates in the MM (or anywhere else).

Yes, because it's not like WotC ever failed to mention something/made a mistake before.

[Cog]

For example: A troll in pathfinder has 6HD and a CR of 5. This means that, just like in 3.5, the Troll has an ECL of 11.
Note that this isn't the actual PF rule at all. CR is considered equivalent to 3.5's ECL, not LA. The example troll would have an ECL of 5, and so an LA of -1 in 3.5's terms. Further, over his career he would gain extra class levels until eventually having an effective LA of -3. (I'm not suggesting that this is better, just making sure that PF's suggestion is clear.)

Yes, because it's not like WotC ever failed to mention something/made a mistake before.
Or wanted players to buy monster manuals of their own to get access to those rules.

For that matter, if a DM ever told me I didn't have the "right" to read a book, rather than asking me not to or suggesting it'd be better not to, I'd laugh in his face. That's just me, though.

[tonberrian]

Templates in 3.5 are optional in the same way that Prestige Classes are, yes.

Take that as you will.