[Pathfinder] CR headaches

[Arutema]

Getting ready for my first time DMing, and I'm getting a headache trying to figure out the CR system for multiple creatures in an encounter.

Say I want a CR6 encounter against a boss and some flunkies. I have one CR3 boss ready, but how many CR2 flunkies to add to make it a CR6 encounter?

Is there a tool online that helps with this?

[LOTRfan]

This should help (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm).

[Arutema]

This should help (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm).

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!

[LOTRfan]

You're welcome. :smallsmile:

[Endarire]

At this level, figure a CR3 vs. a level 3 guy is about a 50-50 chance. Assume whoever wins initiative will probably survive.

[Crossblade]

I'm away from book currently, but I believe the correct/actual way to calculate CR in pathfinder is:

Find the CR chart in the book.
Note the exp number beside the desired CR for the fight (for you, 6)
For each monster you put in the fight, subtract that monster's given exp.
Repeat previous step until 0 exp is left.

[Arutema]

I'm away from book currently, but I believe the correct/actual way to calculate CR in pathfinder is:

Find the CR chart in the book.
Note the exp number beside the desired CR for the fight (for you, 6)
For each monster you put in the fight, subtract that monster's given exp.
Repeat previous step until 0 exp is left.

This unfortunately becomes a pain when you're planning to use abstract xp.

Also, if I apply a CR+1 template to a CR1/2 creature, what's the final CR?

[Grommen]

The real test is putting it all into motions. As a twenty+ year DM I still misjudge the strength of a party. So your first time out most likely your gonna over do it or under do it. Don't panic!

First off the CR are just a simple estimate. I've seen some CR3 monsters that owned a 5th level party just because things went that bad for them.

Biggest thing with encounters are the number of badies in the fight. In general I've found that a party can take on one bad guy with ease. He only gets one action to their four lets say. So he can only mess up one person per round. Now with multipal's, lets say four guys one CR below the man bad guy. Well now they can mess up each and every party member at the same time. Even though they are weaker they have a significant chance of messing up the party. Trust me it happens all the time. Add a boss in and you might have your self a Total Party Kill in no time.

If you still want mooks for the above mentioned outline. I would suggest CR1's and only make the total one CR over the party's current level. Even then I would go no more than one critter per player. Specially if hey have ranged attacks.

[Infernalbargain]

To determine the total CR of multiple critters, add all the XP together that would be provided by each critter, then compare that to the XP granted by various CR'd monsters.

For example, if you bring in 3 wolves. Each wolf is CR 1, which gives 400 XP each for a total of 1200XP, which is close to a CR 4 encounter.

[Kmcdswan]

Crossblade and Infernalbargain are right as per to book but I would suggest an approach (for a first time DM) that is closer to Grommen's idea however I would expand it to include the entire area they will be encountering the boss in. What I mean to say is you should look at your game in a broader sense. a party doesn't recover all it's resources after every fight and with that said unless this boss has no flunkies other that the 4 or 5 right beside him/her you party will probably be injured before they face him/her. With that said I find that an adventure can be broken down into a mid boss fight a boss fight and random encounters (don't stop reading yet I'll explain I promise) now this is a difficult based thought not a story based one. the math looks like this (in my experience) a party can tend to take a total CR of their APL+4 (Average Party Level) if you divide out to a dungeon so usually I take 1 encounter of CR=APL+2 1 encounter of CR=APL+1 and several varied encounters of CR=APL now with a few exceptions you can use Crossblade and Infernalbargain's from book description to skin those encounters any way you like. First, there's no rule saying that the story based dungeon boss needs to be the toughest encounter the strongest individual baddie or even that you need one but that's up to individual situation and I'm talking about general math. Second try to avoid having more enemies than PCs. if you have to only use 1 or 2 more (it will still make them feel outnumbered I promise) and spread out your fire. This will mitigate the potential of dice ignoring fair play and whacking a PC with mooks, no one likes to die but dying to mooks is harsh. The other issue with using to many mooks is that if you stay in budget for a CR=APL encounter they will likely be so weak that they will simply keel over when your party's arcane caster says boo with one of his blast spells. If you don't have a blaster in the party this changes, but most parties have one. As a note this system still gives me trouble in low level play so if you've got a first or second level party be careful.