What Spells are on a Sublime Chord's "List"?

[Tyger]

For purposes of scrolls and wands (yes, this is about UMD) what spells are considered on the list of a bard with levels in Sublime Chord? As they gain access to the Sorcerer/Wizard spell lists (though only 4th and up) when they took the SC PrC, does that mean that all Sorc/Wiz spells are considered on the list???

Just trying to decide when my character has to use UMD, and when he can just do it automatically.

[lesser_minion]

You treat all bard and sorcerer/wizard spells as being on your spell list for the purposes of magic item use, including spells lower than 4th level.

The fact that you don't have spells known slots for spells before 3rd level doesn't change the fact that you are permitted to choose spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

[Tyger]

That was my thinking as well. Don't suppose you can point to a RAW source for it? I've been through 5 books and the SRD trying to find a definition for a caster's "spell list" and I am finding nothing.

[Cog]

A sublime chord has the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, all of 4th level or higher.
They don't merely lack lower level slots for spells known; the 4th level limit is built into their casting. Sor/Wiz spells of 3rd level and below are not on their list unless they appear higher on the Bard list. The Dragon Compendium bloodlines might be enough to break that limit, but only for their specific spells.

[Keld Denar]

You can always step down a spell known. If you gain, say, your 9th level in Sorcerer, you could opt, instead of learning a new 4th level spell, to learn another 3rd level spell, or another 2nd level spell, or whatever. You can always trade down. You can also always use a higher level spell slot to cast a lower level spell. If you burned off all of your 3rd level slots, you could cast Fireball out of a 4th level slot, if you wanted. Without Heighten Spell, though, it would still only have all of the properties of a 3rd level spell, regardless of what slot you cast it from.

Similarly, when you gain your first level of SC, you get 3 4th level spells known. You could pick up Ray of Enfeeblement, though, and burn 4th level SC slots to cast it (or take Versatile Spellcaster and use Bard slots instead).

[Cog]

You can always step down a spell known. If you gain, say, your 9th level in Sorcerer, you could opt, instead of learning a new 4th level spell, to learn another 3rd level spell, or another 2nd level spell, or whatever. You can always trade down. You can also always use a higher level spell slot to cast a lower level spell.
There is such a rule for casting spells, explicitly stated. I'm not aware of any such thing for known spells. Some classes, like Wizards, can do this inherently; others, like Sorcerers, have a list of known spells to follow. I see nothing wrong with letting this happen, and if a player asked I would say yes, but it is a house rule.

[Tyndmyr]

They don't merely lack lower level slots for spells known; the 4th level limit is built into their casting. Sor/Wiz spells of 3rd level and below are not on their list unless they appear higher on the Bard list. The Dragon Compendium bloodlines might be enough to break that limit, but only for their specific spells.

Not correct. You can always choose lower spells in place of a higher one. It's not often done, true....but it CAN be.

[Cog]

It's not often done, true....but it CAN be.
Citation, please? Or is the answer simply, "They don't say you can't?" For reference, I'm looking for something like:
A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell.
Meanwhile, all I'm finding for spontaneous caster spells known is:

A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time he attains a new level in his class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: The Bard or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list he now knows. With permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of.

[Tyndmyr]

Spell Slots

The character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day.

These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower level spell.

I think that's sufficiently clear. It's not directly under sorc, but certainly a sorc qualifies as a spellcaster.

[lesser_minion]

I think that's sufficiently clear. It's not directly under sorc, but certainly a sorc qualifies as a spellcaster.

I'm pretty sure you're right (that you may always learn a lower-level spell in place of a higher level one), but that piece of text doesn't help -- it's discussing your ability to cast spells, not your ability to learn them.

[Cog]

I think that's sufficiently clear. It's not directly under sorc, but certainly a sorc qualifies as a spellcaster.
There is a distinction between a daily spell slot and a spell known. You simply quoted more of what I already posted.