Divine Minion to MoMF

[Adrayll]

Is there any RAW reason that you couldn't use divine minion, instead of Druid 5 to qualify for the wildshape requirement for Master of Many Forms?

Secondly, if so allowed, is there any good reason not to do it? The only thing I can think of is you'd have the funny situation of not being to wildshape into natural animals (but have that made up for by being able to wildshape into everything else).

Thirdly, if not allowed by RAW, are there any other shenanigans available to get wildshaping before level 5, and as early as possible?

[Zanatos777]

That is step one of Pun-pun.

[VarianArdell]

Pun-Pun (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pun-Pun_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)). That is all.

EDIT: curse you, ninjas!

[Adrayll]

Isn't Divine Minion a template, not a class?

[Heliomance]

It's debatable. MoMF requires the Wild Shape class feature, and Divine Minion is not a class. By some interpretations, this makes it not count. Certainly, I'm pretty sure it's not RAW.

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: This belongs in the 3.X/d20-specific forum.

Burble.

[Cog]

Divine Minion is not a class.
And on top of that, Divine Minion gets "Fast Wild Shape", not "Wild Shape". So it's not quite the right kind of feature and it's not quite the right feature itself either. Both are small things, but they add up.

[TheGeckoKing]

It's not like it matters. By 5th level, standard WBL lets you BUY a Candle of Invocation anyway, so you can just gate a Sarrukh in and have it grant you Manipulate Form.

To be a bit more on-topic, my RAW Senses are telling me you can't do it, but my RAI-Senses are telling me to lighten up because it's near enough the same thing.

I'm just not grasping how the devs thought a one-off 9th level spell was worth 8400gp. How? WHY? WHA......*head explodes*.

[Adrayll]

OKay, seeing as this is a step on Pun-Pun's ladder, I should probably avoid it? I was just trying to find a way to get MoMF super early for the fun of MoMF.

[Heliomance]

Doing this doesn't mean you need to carry on the rest of Pun pun. If your DM will allow you to pull off this (admittedly cheesy and almost certainly against RAI) trick, then go for it. MoMF is a very fun class.

[Glimbur]

OKay, seeing as this is a step on Pun-Pun's ladder, I should probably avoid it? I was just trying to find a way to get MoMF super early for the fun of MoMF.

It's not early entry, but some argue a better entry than Druid is Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger). Your spellcasting is less valuable and so it hurts less to give up progression and similarly with your animal companion. In exchange you get two more skill points in your starting levels and full BAB. Also, good Ref instead of Will.

[Adrayll]

Would it be bad form to enter via divine minion, and then just go MoMF 10/Planar Sheperd 10?

[Marnath]

It's not early entry, but some argue a better entry than Druid is Wildshape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger). Your spellcasting is less valuable and so it hurts less to give up progression and similarly with your animal companion. In exchange you get two more skill points in your starting levels and full BAB. Also, good Ref instead of Will.

It's not early entry? I thought wildshape ranger got wildshape and fast movement at level 1, since there's no level listed?

[Cog]

They get wildshape "as a druid". Druids get it at fifth level.

Do you think feat rogues get 11 feats at first level?

Edit: for clarity's sake, I'm referring to wildshape Ranger, not Divine Minion.

[Prime32]

OKay, seeing as this is a step on Pun-Pun's ladder, I should probably avoid it? I was just trying to find a way to get MoMF super early for the fun of MoMF.Nah, step one of Pun-Pun is being a non-Dragonwrought kobold. Which isn't exactly going to make the rest of the group feel small. :smalltongue:

And that's only one method anyway - the simplest (though not fastest) route to Pun-Pun, requiring no multiclassing or equipment, is "be a full spellcaster".

[sreservoir]

It's not early entry? I thought wildshape ranger got wildshape and fast movement at level 1, since there's no level listed?

nope, just as druid.

[Zanatos777]

They get wildshape "as a druid". Druids get it at fifth level.

Do you think feat rogues get 11 feats at first level?

Actually it gives "as an 11th-level druid". That is an important distinction.

Edit: Realized you were talking about the ranger not Divine Minion. Please ignore.