Help Wanted: Elf Bowman Build D&D 3.5

[DropKickBananas]

Hey guys, I'm going to be a part of a new campaign pretty soon. Character creation is definitely not one of my strong points so I was wondering if I could get some pointers. I'm trying to come up with my whole build now so I don't get stuck in the process in the middle of a game.

It is going to be mainly a CORE campaign, we have Races of the Wild and Races of the Stone available to us.

The game is going to be set in my DM's own created world and he has some tweaks here and there, for example: The Elf Race's favored class is Ranger and not Wizard in this world. Also there is no difference between Wood Elves and Normal Elves. In his world there are just Elves, all Elves basically reside in one part of the world but they travel around to Human cities, etc. Think of Rivendell from Lord Of The Rings. The world setting is also Medieval.

I want to create an Elven Ranger. I have never multiclassed but I feel it's necessary to get a well rounded character, especially in this world when my DM recommends it.

I'm pretty sure I want to pick up Rogue as my level 1 class so I get more skill points. I also think I want to pick up 1 level of Fighter for the bonus feats. After that I guess I want to go ranger all the way to level 17. Also I don't know which feats to pick other than Point blank Shot and Rapid Shot. I thought about Dodge but I'm going to have an AC of 17 with my Stats and Studded Leather Armor.

Now my question for you guys is this; Is this a good idea? I wont be able to use Hide In Plain Sight for more than 1 level since I will gain it at level 20 but do the benefits of what I'm trying to do outweigh the losses?


We roll for stats, this is what I got:

17
17
17
16
12
12


So I'm thinking about distributing them like this:


STR 16 +3
DEX 19 +4
CON 15 +2
INT 12 +1
WIS 17 +3
CHA 12 +1



Thanks for reading! If you can offer any help on this core build I will appreciate it a lot! Later on I'm going to develop a prestige class for this character after I see how he's going to play.

[SuperFish]

Ask your DM what books are available. If you guys have access to Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel, might I suggest the Swift Hunter build?

It takes Scout, a skill monkey class with as many skill points as rogue, and instead of Sneak Attack, they get Skirmish, which lets them do more damage if they attack after moving. The build involves taking the feat Swift Hunter at level 6, which stacks your ranger and scout levels for the purpose of Skirmish and Favoured Enemy progression, and also lets you deal precision-based damage (which Skirmish is) to any favoured enemies you have that would normally not be subject to such damage.

I think the standard build is Scout4/Ranger16 (though not in that order, you need levels in both before you can take Swift Hunter) but if you want more levels in scout to improve your skill monkey abilities and get some of the other class features, you're welcome to do that as well.

EDIT: One level of Rogue isn't enough to make the skill point difference matter much, and you can't do much with just one die of Sneak Attack damage at high levels.

[DropKickBananas]

Thanks for your input! We have those books, but our DM wants us to stick with PH 1 and 2 and Races of the Stone And Races of the Wild. We have some fairly new players (Myself included) and a pretty new world so he's restricting us because of that. As for Scout, thats actually what I wanted to be but had to give it up because of the restriction. My DM said I could form it into a Prestige Class but I have yet to even think about it. Do you have any advice as to how I should go about my build with only these books? You brought up a good point about sneak attack that is making me doubt my initial thoughts of the build. I wanted the Higher Skill points because it is going to be a more Story driven campaign. As for the Fighter well, I only want those bonus feats.

EDIT
I have played in another campaign with him as a DM before and he was pretty lenient but the game fell apart because of it. Now we decided that we should build our characters around his parameters.

[SuperFish]

It seems a pretty arbitrary restriction to allow multiclassing within PHB I and II, but bar fairly straightforward base classes from other books.

The problem is, archery in D&D is pretty weak, overall, and the Swift Hunter build, along with some of the weapon enhancements from Magic Item Compendium, are one of the best ways to make it better.

[DropKickBananas]

I know :/
Our DM is 16 years old haha. I see what your saying, I'll bring it up again though, maybe once I get a little more knowledge about the Swift Hunter build I can get him to buy into it. Do you know of any places on the web I might be able to find some "templates" of some sort to see how the character might develop? I'm going to begin looking in to this now.

Also idk how magic enhancements would work, he would give us buffs but they would always be random in our other campaign. I see people building characters with all of these specific totems and enhancements, what happens if my DM simply says "No that enhancement simply isn't available here."

[Greenish]

Swift Hunter Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=u3alu0ac361nn3oh136hbtv6a0&topic=103.0) and for a good measure, Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).

[DropKickBananas]

Swift Hunter Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=u3alu0ac361nn3oh136hbtv6a0&topic=103.0) and for a good measure, Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).

Thanks! I just found that same Swift Hunter Handbook, The Archery Handbook should come to good use. Thanks a lot

[DropKickBananas]

It seems a pretty arbitrary restriction to allow multiclassing within PHB I and II, but bar fairly straightforward base classes from other books.

The problem is, archery in D&D is pretty weak, overall, and the Swift Hunter build, along with some of the weapon enhancements from Magic Item Compendium, are one of the best ways to make it better.

Good news! Our DM now approves of the Scout!

[TurtleKing]

If you want to be a long range striking then try out the Cragtop Archer in RoS. Granted extending your range of Skirmish is not easily done within those parameters. The Ranger would probably be a better choice as the base class going into Cragtop Archer. Also if going Ranger you get alot of feats for archery if you choose the ranged style. You also have the racial substitution for the Elf Ranger which can either replace or augment class abilities.

[SuperFish]

Also, see if you can get a Ring of Entropic Deflection. Grants a 20% miss chance if you move at least 10 ft, 50% if you also have a magic item that enhances your movement speed.

[John Campbell]

Also, see if you can get a Ring of Entropic Deflection. Grants a 20% miss chance if you move at least 10 ft, 50% if you also have a magic item that enhances your movement speed.

Only against ranged attacks. But it also doesn't have the requirement (unlike most similar effect triggers, like the Scout's skirmish damage) that the movement be under your own power... you just have to end your turn at least 10' from where you started. Mounted movement counts.

And you can make ranged full attacks without penalty while riding up to your mount's single move.

[DropKickBananas]

I looked through the guide posted above earlier and I decided that I might take this route.
Elf

1.Scout 1 Point Blank Shot [Skirmish +1d6], {Favored Enemy 1}

2.Ranger 1 Track* [Favored Enemy]

3.Ranger 2 Rapid Shot*, Precise Shot {Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC}

4.Scout 2 [Battle Fort +1], [uncanny dodge]

5.Scout 3 [Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC], [Trackless Step],

[Fast Movement +10 ft.], {Skirmish +2d6/+1 AC}{Favored Enemy2}

6.Scout 4 Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish^

7.Scout 5 Evasion Skirmish (+2d6, +1AC)

8.Ranger 3 Endurance* [Skirmish +2d6/+2 AC]

9.Ranger 4 [1st level spells], [Animal Companion]

10.Ranger 5 CHOOSE FEAT [Skirmish +3d6/+2 AC]

11.Ranger 6 Manyshot [Favored Enemy 3]

12.Ranger 7 [Skirmish +3d6/+3 AC], [Woodland Stride]

13.Ranger 8 Greater Manyshot[2nd level spells], [Swift Tracker]

14.Ranger 9 [Skirmish +4d6/+3 AC], [Evasion]

15.Ranger 10

16.Ranger 11 Improved Precise Shot*,[Skirmish +4d6/+4 AC],[3rd level spells],
CHOOSE FEAT [Favored Enemy 4]


17.Ranger 12

18.Ranger 13 [Skirmish +5d6/+4 AC], [Camouflage]

19.Ranger 14 CHOOSE FEAT [4th level spells]

12.Ranger 15 [Skirmish +5d6/+5 AC]


Any thoughts?

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

Its tough when only choosing from certain source materials. That build looks fairly solid though. Depending on what you can make happen with your DM one of my favorite combos for elven archers is to use the mystic ranger variant along with the sword of the arcane order feat. Gives you up to 5th level Sorc/Wizard spells to play around with. I also usually prefer to take the alternative hunting schools for rangers as well. If you are planning on doing a focused skirmisher build then rapidshot is...kinda pointless. Unless you are doing the 10 foot step deal. So you can do the hunting variant that gives you point blank and precise shot then just take many shot for free. Effectively granting yourself an extra feat. Which then should obviously be taken with improved manyshot. All those are outside your stated source material though. But if your DM starts allowing more things as the game progresses...then who knows.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Its tough when only choosing from certain source materials. That build looks fairly solid though. Depending on what you can make happen with your DM one of my favorite combos for elven archers is to use the mystic ranger variant along with the sword of the arcane order feat. Gives you up to 5th level Sorc/Wizard spells to play around with. I also usually prefer to take the alternative hunting schools for rangers as well. If you are planning on doing a focused skirmisher build then rapidshot is...kinda pointless. Unless you are doing the 10 foot step deal. So you can do the hunting variant that gives you point blank and precise shot then just take many shot for free. Effectively granting yourself an extra feat. Which then should obviously be taken with improved manyshot. All those are outside your stated source material though. But if your DM starts allowing more things as the game progresses...then who knows.

Where is this hunting alternative for ranger?

[Gaius Marius]

A built I thought of, which is a nice mix of Power Gaming and Role Playing is this:

Cleric 1: Solonor Thelandira, Elven God of Archery and the Hunt. Favored Weapon: Longbow*

*or composite longbow

take the domains War and Elf, you will automatically get Weapon Focus and Point Blank Shot as feats.

Go for ranger 2 and then Fighter 2. You will have sacrificed 1 BAB for two early feats and the ability to cast True Strike once a day for uberamazing archery feats.

Plus, you have the fun of playing a genuine Elven Cleric who think his archery skills are part of his religion. I already told te DM that everytime I would do a 1-shot kill, it was my duty to recover the arrow and do a Thank to my god for the Miracle he gave me.

Cool game :-)

[SuperFish]

Only against ranged attacks. But it also doesn't have the requirement (unlike most similar effect triggers, like the Scout's skirmish damage) that the movement be under your own power... you just have to end your turn at least 10' from where you started. Mounted movement counts.

And you can make ranged full attacks without penalty while riding up to your mount's single move.

Right, forgot the ranged part. Still good to get.

I'm pretty sure, though, that errata or some other (semi-)official word has stated that mounted movement does not qualify for skirmish damage. Silly, I know...

[DropKickBananas]

Thanks! When it comes down to it I'm going to just have to see how he plays out. I'm going to be Chaotic Good, (we wanted to do an evil campaign at first but it fell apart so this was our alternative). @Gaius Marius: That sounds pretty sweet!

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

Where is this hunting alternative for ranger?


One of the dragon magazines...I cant remember off the top of my head though. It just lets you take different feats instead of just two weapon fighting or ranged. Like there is a throwing one, a grappling one, a two handed one, and a few more. Im sure you could google it to figure out which Mag it's in though.

[Safety Sword]

Swift Hunter Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=u3alu0ac361nn3oh136hbtv6a0&topic=103.0) and for a good measure, Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).

It seems that the Contents has more content than the actual guide.. all I see is a lot of blank reserved posts.. shame as I'm still researching a rogue archer. :smallconfused:

[Gaius Marius]

@Gaius Marius: That sounds pretty sweet!

Your thanks are muchly appreciated. It's my personnal belief that munchkinism can be acceptable when you weld it with a very healthy dose of Role-playing potential.

[DropKickBananas]

Heres a question for you guys, taking my stats in consideration. Do I want Weapon Finesse as a feat? As you can see I have blank spaces reserved for feats that I still have to choose.

[Gaius Marius]

Heres a question for you guys, taking my stats in consideration. Do I want Weapon Finesse as a feat? As you can see I have blank spaces reserved for feats that I still have to choose.

If you want a powerful archer, you should already have high Strenghts also.. so I believe Weapon Finesse will be wasted.

[John Campbell]

Right, forgot the ranged part. Still good to get.
Yeah, especially for an archer, and double-especially for an archer who's getting bonus damage from movement, or can move without losing the full attack. You should be avoiding melee if possible anyway, and a 50% miss chance for anyone shooting back - including casters with ray attacks - is excellent.


I'm pretty sure, though, that errata or some other (semi-)official word has stated that mounted movement does not qualify for skirmish damage. Silly, I know...
I may not have said it as clearly as I might, but what I meant was that, while mounted movement doesn't trigger skirmish, it does trigger the ring of entropic deflection.

My mounted archer ranger was all over the entropic deflection. Sadly, I couldn't talk my DM into letting my mount's horseshoes of speed count as the speed-enhancer for the better miss chance, so I had to get some boots of striding and springing that I seldom actually use because I'm mounted most of the time, but that have come in handy in their own right a couple of times.

[Telonius]

Wiz6/Rgr2/Eldritch Knight 2/Arcane Archer 2/EK8

Feats
1 Wiz1 Summon Familiar, Scribe Scroll, Point Blank Shot
2 Wiz2
3 Wiz3 Precise Shot
4 Wiz4 Craft Wondrous
5 Wiz5
6 Wiz6 Weapon Focus (Bow)
7 Rgr1 Track
8 Rgr2 Rapid Shot
9 EK1 Manyshot
10 EK2
11 ArcArc1
12 ArcArc2 Greater Manyshot
13 EK3
14 EK4
15 EK5 Quicken Spell
16 EK6
17 EK7
18 EK8 *
19 EK9
20 EK10

You end up casting as a Wizard15, with +17BAB. You nearly-automatically qualify for Arcane Archer. This is generally a suboptimal choice, but you're very limited in source materials. Imbue Arrow does give you a few options that you wouldn't otherwise have. Pick and choose what you need. If spells are appropriate, you have those; if not, it gets an arrow to the face.

[DropKickBananas]

If you want a powerful archer, you should already have high Strenghts also.. so I believe Weapon Finesse will be wasted.
Yeah, I asked because I set my Strength at 16 and my Dex is at 19. Thanks for the input!

Wiz6/Rgr2/Eldritch Knight 2/Arcane Archer 2/EK8


You end up casting as a Wizard15, with +17BAB. You nearly-automatically qualify for Arcane Archer. This is generally a suboptimal choice, but you're very limited in source materials. Imbue Arrow does give you a few options that you wouldn't otherwise have. Pick and choose what you need. If spells are appropriate, you have those; if not, it gets an arrow to the face.

Wow I really like this, I'm about to save it and build another character with these guidelines. For now I'm going to try not to multiclass too much. I would rather learn the game first and then if we ever start another campaign I'll do something along these lines. This is pretty sweet though

[Gaius Marius]

Yeah, I asked because I set my Strength at 16 and my Dex is at 19. Thanks for the input!


16 is very reasonable, that's a good choice. You seem to get a good hang of the game so far. The +2/3 on melée attacks won't be worth the feat, I suggest you go all-fighter after what I suggested (with maybe a dip in barbarian for Fast movement and an emergency rage).

You should take Weapon Specialization and other such feats. PHB2 is your friend, with a healthy dose of nifty feats that you can use and abuse.

If you take stuff like Ranged Disarm, with the True Strike spell, you could basically neutralise weapon- or wand- based BBE, since the +20 carry over.. I think.

Now, here's my personnal take: it's less about being powerful, more about having fun. Don't be a 1-trick poney. Have a sling with you, just in case. Take *some* feat that allows you to do nifty things, keep useful stuff you can use with you archery skill. 'cause if the only thing you do is shooting and standing, you'll get bored quickly.

[DropKickBananas]

I'm definitely going to take Weapon Specialization and maybe Ranged Disarm. I gotta play in the world and see how it all plays out so I have a better understanding of what works and what doesn't.