Can Launch Item throw a grappling hook?

[gallagher]

as per the 0 level spell, it says it can throw a fine-sized item.

problem, i cannot find anywhere where it says what the size of a grappling hook is?

so can Launch Item toss a grappling hook? and if not, what spell would be able to? is there an item that could count as a non-magical launcher (like how a harpoon gun, so it doesnt use explosives or anything)

[Greenish]

Grappling hook weighs 4 lb, and is thus Tiny, using the table for creatures. We might assume that a grappling hook is denser than a regular animal, but I don't see it being less than 6 inches.

So, I'd say no, but that's only an educated guess, and I don't see any particular reason not to allow it from gameplay perspective.

[Edit]: There's no official non-magical launcher that I know off, but there's some homebrew (http://www.ptolus.com/images/Technology.pdf).

[No brains]

I believe Complete Scoundrel or Adventurer has a similar spell, catapult that can shoot a grappling hook equally far.

[bloodtide]

A grappling hook has a weight of four pounds and would fall into the 'Diminutive' size, being over six inches long. But it would be close. Six inches looks a bit small for a grappling hook, but they could be that small.


The 2nd level spell, Catapult(Complete Scoundrel), can throw a grappling hook.

And so can mage hand.

[Darth Stabber]

Maybe if you can fast talk the gm a mithril grappling hook could count as small enough (it is lighter, but the same size). Mage hand is the better bet for that task (and other uses are limited only by your imagination). It would not be as fast as launch item, but you can be a lot more precise (ie you can position it exactly, but it might take longer than a standcard action). Alternately, if you are good on the spellcraft checks, you could talk your gm into letting you create a specific 0lvl spell for exactly that task (though it likely would not be usefull for any other task).

If I were the gm, I would just let you do it, because if nothing else I love fun and creative uses for cantrips.

[Fizban]

I'd say the important part here is that is says a "fine item in your possesion, weighing up to 10lbs." I dare you to find an item that is the size of a mouse or potion vial and also weighs 10lbs (maybe uranium?). In my opinion, the person who wrote "fine" there had no idea what it actually meant in dnd terms. It's really, really obvious the spell is meant for hurling alchemical items, which go up to the Tanglefoot Bag at 4lbs, so a grappling hook should be just fine.

Now the important part here is that while the spell can throw the hook, it probably can't throw the hook hard enough to carry the rope trail you need to make it useful. Mage Hand is even worse, with a 5lb limit and close range instead of 10lbs and medium. Catapult also has a limit of 5lbs, so it can't do the job either, and it has a maximum range of 150' with a -10 penalty from range increments. So, Launch Item is actually the only spell suggested that can even try to throw the hook in a useful manner.

If we stick by Launch Item and it's 10lb limit, then a silk rope could get the job done, but not more than 60' of silk rope with the hook. You could also upgrade to a mithral hook, in which case you could go up to 80'. But, a little secret: a mithral grappling hook costs 1,000gp. A magical Grasping Hook (made of mithral of course) grants a higher bonus and only costs 500gp.

And of course if you've got the cash, you can get a hookshot Rod of Ropes for 4,000gp.

[Edit] Oh, and you might want to check what you'll be rolling for that anyway. Normally you make a Use Rope check based on distance to use a grappling hook, but the whole point here I'm guessing is to use magic to make that easier. I've seen grappling hook crossbows in 3rd party books that let you replace the Use Rope check with a ranged attack, which seems fair.

Also, some comparisons:
Standard grappling hook with any rope: max range 50', DC 20.
Mithral Hook with silk rope (only): max range 200', DC 20.
Grasping Hook with silk rope (only): max range 200', DC 20, hook can specifically support up to 1,600 lbs, though rope may not.
Rod of Ropes: max range 300', no DC or roll given, max weight 1,000lbs, rope does not sag if suspended between two points.
Standard Hook with Silk Rope and Launch Item: max range 60', DC 22 ranged attack?
Mithral Hook with Silk Rope and Launch Item: max range 80', DC 14 ranged attack? Very expensive.

After comparisons, I really don't think you can beat the Grasping Hook (from Dungeonscape). It's cheaper and better than anything else with a range of 200', and the only one that breaks that range is the expensive Rod of Ropes (from Complete Scoundrel), which still stops at 300'. That said, if you have to traverse a lot of terrain, the Rod of Ropes will still beat out a daily flight item; The whole party can make use of it all day long and it doesn't require any climb checks or swinging about.

(Side question: anyone know how much weight the standard hemp and silk ropes support? I don't see it on their normal gear listing. If we use their break DCs to extrapolate a strength modifier of +3 and +4 (the rope takes 20 on it's strength check to avoid breaking), we get strength of 16 and 18, which gives us 230lbs and 300lbs each. That seems a little low. Assuming a strength score of 23 and 24 gives 600 and 700lbs, which is better, but irks me because it doesn't line up with the strength it would take to break them. Extrapolating based on the Grasping Claw's given strength and the amount it can hold, I think they're using double max load for the strength score, as if the hanging thing was "staggering around" with the load, but this still doesn't tell me what the effective strength scores of normal ropes are. Doubling the original figures gives 460 and 600lb limits, which seem useful enough. But I don't know anything about actual ropes.)

[Lightlawbliss]

hemp:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/manila-rope-strength-d_1512.html
at 50 ft weighting 10 lbs, we are somewhere between 20 and 22 mm thick. So it could break at around 6000 lbs.

silk:
If we assume silk rope is simular to nylon rope:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nylon-rope-strength-d_1513.html
at 50 ft weighting 5 lbs, the rope is about 16 mm thick. It could break around 9000 lbs.

edit: added silk

[Greenish]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSS_BagTaKrrYgkMzt98c_X91V0n32-niMaJMvdhaGW1pb3j_DkdL5NEZVE