Non-Grid combat (wip)

[Ashtagon]

The basic unit of space is a zone, assumed to be a circle of approximately 30 feet in diameter, coincidentally the same as most "mass" style area-of-effect spells.

At any given time, a character can in in one of three locations within a zone: vanguard (front), rearguard (back), or flank (side). This will normally be determined by the party's normal marching order, although this may be over-ridden by the GM for specific situations, such as being surprised or when opening a door.

Maximum capacity of a zone: No more than 28 medium-size characters, including both sides, can be in a single zone.

Vanguard: By default, all characters will be in this position. From here, a character may make melee attacks and be attacked in melee normally by any enemy who is also in a vanguard position.

Flank: The maximum number of flank characters plus rearguard characters is equal to the number of vanguard characters. In order to perform a sneak attack or assassin's strike attack, a character must be in the flank position. Immediately after performing such an attack, the character automatically moves to the vanguard position with no action required.

Rearguard: The maximum number of flank characters plus rearguard characters is equal to the number of vanguard characters. A rearguard character is usually safe from melee attack.

Special case for narrow frontage areas such as doors and narrow corridors: Allow two characters to be vanguard per five feet of frontage, or unlimited if 15 feet or more of frontage. This may result in any excess characters being placed in the rearguard position, forming an exception to the usual limit on the number of rearguard characters. If frontage is limited by this rule, no character may be in a flank position.

Ranged Attacks: A ranged attack from within the same zone is assumed to be within the first range increment of the weapon. Ranged attacks from farther away are assumed to be at a range of exactly 30 feet per zone of space distant.

Movement: As a move action, a character can do any of the following:

* Move from one area within a zone to another area in the same zone (e.g. rearguard to vanguard). Note that moving from vanguard to any other location may provoke an attack of opportunity. If moving from the vanguard to the flank, you make make a Stealth check opposed by the highest enemy's Perception check to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity.
* If you are in the vanguard, you may move an enemy character from the rearguard or flank to the vanguard. This may provoke an attack of opportunity.
* You may move from one zone to an adjacent zone, arriving in the rearguard.

As a full-round action, you may move to the vanguard of either your own zone or an adjacent zone, and perform a charge attack against any enemy, forcing him into his vanguard if he isn't already in that area. If you were already in your vanguard, this may provoke an attack of opportunity.

Worth continuing?

[lesser_minion]

I approve (provisionally).

This idea gets points for allowing players to guard an area without having to screw around with the initiative system or beat other players over the head with Gygax's law violations.

What do you have in mind for situations where there aren't enough vanguard characters (for example, if one of them falls)?

I'm not too sure about your charge rules, however. I think it would be better to at least require that you somehow bypass or break through your opponents' defence before you can unleash righteous fury upon their squishiness.

[Mulletmanalive]

Seems like a pretty massive debuff to the rogue here.

One attack and suddenly their primary class ability doesn't work until they can reset their position?

This also works ok, ish, if you've got the "standard party" with the healbot taking the front rank, but short of brining mercenaries with you, you're not going to be able to maintain sufficient vanguard for the average PC group to be able to do their thing...

Worth noting that i'm not against this idea. I wasn't against the very similar space combat system used in the first d20 Starwars game; that was just impossible to actually understand the way they wrote it.

[Ashtagon]

Seems like a pretty massive debuff to the rogue here.

One attack and suddenly their primary class ability doesn't work until they can reset their position?

This also works ok, ish, if you've got the "standard party" with the healbot taking the front rank, but short of brining mercenaries with you, you're not going to be able to maintain sufficient vanguard for the average PC group to be able to do their thing...

Worth noting that i'm not against this idea. I wasn't against the very similar space combat system used in the first d20 Starwars game; that was just impossible to actually understand the way they wrote it.

For a typical party of 4 characters, that means that at any given time, 2 must be in the vanguard, and typically you'll have the wizard at the rear and the rogue flipping between vanguard and flank. As many studies have shown, in-combat healing (aka healbot) is not an effective use of the action economy anyway.

On the rogue's turn, he will use his move action to shift to the flank (requiring a Stealth vs Perception check to avoid an aoo), and his attack action to sneak attack, shifting back to the vanguard in the process. This effectively allows him a sneak attack every round as before.

[Mulletmanalive]

I noticed some of that, but Clerics rarely engage in combat until turn two , relying on the frontliner to hold things up while they apply the copious buffs that make them work. Unless they're messing around with DMM Persistant spells and even then.

The issue here is that people complain about the rogue when he CAN use his full attack action to two weapon the target into fillets. This limits him to a maximum of a standard action, ever.

Even with Bleeding Wound and the like, his damage output drops hard and he's going to be most efficient, bizarrely enough, armed with a two handed weapon as two weapon wielding is now denied to him.

[Eldan]

Worth thinking about: what advantage does a small bonus to movement speed grant now? I.e. if anyone just moves one zone, what does the Barbarian's or Monk's fast movement do? They would have to gain an alternate benefit.

[necroon]

I like it... however how would one account for the superior movement of things like mounted enemies or dragons?

[Ashtagon]

Worth thinking about: what advantage does a small bonus to movement speed grant now? I.e. if anyone just moves one zone, what does the Barbarian's or Monk's fast movement do? They would have to gain an alternate benefit.


I like it... however how would one account for the superior movement of things like mounted enemies or dragons?

I'm thinking that if the character's movement is fast enough, they'd move two (or more) zones when moving across zones. There is however, a marginal advantage in actually being faster. I'm thinking that being faster gives a +1 on attack rolls, and each full 30 feet of speed difference granting an additional +1 on attack rolls. A similar bonus could apply to reach weapons. This assumes that marginal movement advantage gives an actual advantage in the ebb and flow of melee combat, which is assumed to shift around within the general 30-foot diameter that each zone represents.

[Eldan]

Reach weapons: one attack of opportunity the first time someone attacks you?

[Ashtagon]

Reach weapons: one attack of opportunity the first time someone attacks you?

No, that would require tracking what happened from round to round, which is something liable to induce "discussion" at the table.