[3.x] Homebrew Love

[Morph Bark]

A few months back there was a thread where people seemed to think many hate homebrew. I came with this response (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9457344&postcount=185) where I talked about what homebrew saw use in my campaigns up 'til then and what we loved about it and whatnot.

I figured that hey, perhaps it was a good idea to get a thread going to see what homebrew others have used and what they liked or disliked about it, or perhaps what homebrew they'd like to play or playtest (since homebrew sorely needs that). Though there is a distinction between "I've played this homebrew before and thought this of it" and "I'd like to play this".

[true_shinken]

I've had bad, bad experiences with homebrew before, but Morph Bark's last thread inspired me to give it a try. I played Lix Lorn's Flashblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8760711&postcount=1) in a pbf here in the forums. I'm a great fan of the Black Rain and Dread Crown disciplines. I really like the concept of the Masked Demon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71073) prestige class, but I really wish it was based on demon possession and not a homebrew feat, and I don't like the requirements. I might fiddle with it for my game. I absolutely love the Star's Servant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177725) concept as well, but the execution was not exactly flawless.

I really don't like 'fixes' as homebrew, though.

[arguskos]

A few months back there was a thread where people seemed to think many hate homebrew. I came with this response (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9457344&postcount=185) where I talked about what homebrew saw use in my campaigns up 'til then and what we loved about it and whatnot.

I figured that hey, perhaps it was a good idea to get a thread going to see what homebrew others have used and what they liked or disliked about it, or perhaps what homebrew they'd like to play or playtest (since homebrew sorely needs that). Though there is a distinction between "I've played this homebrew before and thought this of it" and "I'd like to play this".
I use a lot of it with regularity. For example, right now, I have a player using some stuff I've made (my firearm rules, an altered Shadow Blade feat to not require ToB, a few other feats I threw together), someone's using T.G. Oskar's Samurai (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143018), there are NPCs using T.G.'s Warmage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131346), my Monk and Shadow, Person_Man's Magitech Templar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176276), DMofDarkness's Warlock Update (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184385), and Temotei's Corruptor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137200) (I WILL ALWAYS CALL IT THE CORRUPTOR DAMMIT :smallfurious::smalltongue:). I also use Rizban's Parry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136100) mechanic to great success (no, seriously, it's AMAZING) and Realms of Chaos's Descent of Shadows (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74519) constantly.

I also make it a point to give feedback as I can. In fact, I need to go report to T.G. how his Warmage and Samurai are doing in my campaign (the short details are quite nicely), and should probably let DMofDarkness know about his Warlock fix's performance in my session last night (again, quite nicely).

Additionally, I have plans for LOTRfan's shardminds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192273) in the near-future, so that's good too.

I think I use more brew more actively than anyone else I know, other than perhaps you (at the moment) and maybe TDO and Krimm, if they still do 3.5 anyways.

[LOTRfan]

Additionally, I have plans for LOTRfan's shardminds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192273) in the near-future, so that's good too.

Awesome. Would you mind providing feedback when you are done?

Also, thanks for the link to the parrying system. :smallsmile:

[Yora]

I very rarely use homebrew stuff as it's written. But I also use official and published 3rd party stuff very rarely as printed.

I almost never use anything directly from homebrew threads or such, but reading other people homebrew gets me a lot of ideas how to incorporate aspects of their work into my own.

[arguskos]

Awesome. Would you mind providing feedback when you are done?
Of course. I've been doing that for T.G. after all, and I make a point to do so whenever possible for everyone I can.


Also, thanks for the link to the parrying system. :smallsmile:
Sure sure.

[Jarian]

I would say that about 60% of the material in my games is homebrew. WotC has jack-all knowledge of how to balance their game, so I do it for them when my players start to pick things of disparate power levels, or if they want to play a concept that is hard or impossible to pull off with existing classes/mechanics.

I've used primarily my own homebrew, much of which is not posted to the forums for one reason or another (laziness in formatting, really), but I've also used T. G. Oskar's Warmage, Healer, and Ninja retoolings to great effect.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Generally, I'm open to allow homebrew for my games. However, unless it has been made by me, some of the more wel-known homebrewers (off-hand, I'd be inclined to allow nearly anything by Fax, Djinn, DW, and ErrantX), or one of the other DMs running our communal campaign, I personally take a look over it before throwing it up to a vote among the DMs, and, in some cases, the players themselves. Probably the only thing I'd disallow on reflex would be something found on DND Wiki, but that's mostly me being a lazy git.

Thus far, it's proven moderately effective, but there have been a few minor issues, but those were short-lived.

[true_shinken]

Oh, something I should mention. I'll never ever allow anything from D&DWiki in my games.

[Jarian]

How is saying "I'll never ever use something from X" any different from people who say "All homebrew is banned, no exceptions, no, not even then"?

Granted, most of DND Wiki is garbage, but it seems a little hypocritical, doesn't it?

[true_shinken]

Granted, most of DND Wiki is garbage, but it seems a little hypocritical, doesn't it?
I don't think so, and frankly, I find your tone offending.
All the times someone showed me something from DnDWiki, I would waste precious minutes of my life reading through awfully written stuff and another few minutes politely saying 'hell no' without offending anyone. Saying 'I don't want homebrew from X' is the same as saying 'I don't use Tome of Battle in my games'.

[Thiyr]

I've used some homebrew before, with mixed results. We've playtested something a friend and I 'brewed up for him, which we think turned out quite well (and I intend at some point to post up here), and I am currently playing Admiral Squish's Dragon Shaman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147604), which I am enjoying.

And yet I've seen the dark side of homebrew. We have one person banned from using it (and I avoid playing with this guy anyway, so it doesn't affect me much), one person who pulls up stuff that seems interesting but needs work that we try to fine tune to not be as iffy, and my typical response before looking at something from d&d wiki (though i will eventually look at it) is to ask if they're sure they don't want to use this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Sure-Strike_Matches_%283.5e_Equipment%29) instead.

[Jarian]

I don't think so, and frankly, I find your tone offending.

You know what they say about assumptions.

That was an honest question, not a veiled insult.

I also don't agree with your interpretation of banning everything from an entire site equating to not using one splatbook, but hey. To each their own.

[Ravens_cry]

Homebrew follows Sturgeon's Law more then even the published material. I am not saying it can't be good, it's just that it is hard to tell at a glance is something is suitable for your table and awkward to retroactively change things later. Also, as a DM you have a lot on your plate already, going over homebrew on a case by case basis is time consuming. It is easier to just say "No Homebrew" then to have to deal with all that.

[true_shinken]

Homebrew follows Sturgeon's Law more then even the published material. I am not saying it can't be good, it's just that it is hard to tell at a glance is something is suitable for your table and awkward to retroactively change things later. Also, as a DM you have a lot on your plate already, going over homebrew on a case by case basis is time consuming. It is easier to just say "No Homebrew" then to have to deal with all that.

I understand and respect that stance. Nowadays I have enough time to go through stuff, so I allow it on a case by case basis.
Except if it's from D&D wiki... or from Frank and K. Then I simply won't read it.

[Ravens_cry]

I understand and respect that stance. Nowadays I have enough time to go through stuff, so I allow it on a case by case basis.
Except if it's from D&D wiki... or from Frank and K. Then I simply won't read it.
Yeah, I think we can both agree that the D&D wiki or Dandy Wiki as my brain insist on pronouncing it, is, well, just not.:smallyuk:

[Sacrieur]

I'd argue that homebrew passed through the rigors of the forums is far superior to the works found in the books for the most part. Get out all of your D&D books and make a list of the classes. Chances are 75% of them are going to fall into tier 4 or below.

[true_shinken]

I'd argue that homebrew passed through the rigors of the forums is far superior to the works found in the books for the most part. Get out all of your D&D books and make a list of the classes. Chances are 75% of them are going to fall into tier 4 or below.

And how is that a problem, really? Tier 3-4 are the ones where game balance is better achieved and are the most hard to write for. Going above it is a bad thing. People thinking everyone should have nukes is one of the main reasons you find homebrews that absolutely suck.
Also, most homebrew is not going to be actually tested, you're just going to get a few people throwing wild guesses at it, some of them people who know absolutely nothing about how the game runs.

[arguskos]

And how is that a problem, really? Tier 3-4 are the ones where game balance is better achieved and are the most hard to write for. Going above it is a bad thing. People thinking everyone should have nukes is one of the main reasons you find homebrews that absolutely suck.
Uh... that's not what he said? He said that most brew classes fall ABOVE the sub-Tier 4 range (as opposed to WotC, where most are below the sub-Tier 4 range). Tier 3, the accepted balanced tier, is above Tier 4. See the logic here?

Note: I'm not endorsing his statement, nor do I fully agree with it. Just clarifying.


Also, most homebrew is not going to be actually tested, you're just going to get a few people throwing wild guesses at it, some of them people who know absolutely nothing about how the game runs.
That's the point of this thread, to try and put together some people who are going to test the work provided and to share the experiences of works already tested, since many of us swear by brew and use it a lot. It's a drop out of a bucket, but it's a start.

[true_shinken]

Uh... that's not what he said? He said that most brew classes fall ABOVE the sub-Tier 4 range (as opposed to WotC, where most are below the sub-Tier 4 range). Tier 3, the accepted balanced tier, is above Tier 4. See the logic here?

Note: I'm not endorsing his statement, nor do I fully agree with it. Just clarifying.
The thing, arguskos, is that most WotC classes are actually at tier 3-4. Most brews aren't.


That's the point of this thread, to try and put together some people who are going to test the work provided and to share the experiences of works already tested, since many of us swear by brew and use it a lot. It's a drop out of a bucket, but it's a start.
I agree completely.

[McSmack]

Back in the day I homebrewed a lot of things - classes, races, items, and settings.

Then I read Eberron, and now I hate Keith Baker.

Because he took just about everything I'd made and found a way to do it better.

Nowadays I don't really do homebrew stuff. There's honestly enough resources out there for 3.x/PF that I can get just about whatever I want.

[Keld Denar]

I've had pretty good fun with Eldariel's Ephemeral Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5883542), even coming up with a couple of nice builds with it.

I'm also DMing 2 games. One has a ToB Samurai fix, and the other used the Sagitarious base class and is now experimenting with Warmarked and the Iron Rain discipline. Should be interesting.

[Morph Bark]

Also, most homebrew is not going to be actually tested, you're just going to get a few people throwing wild guesses at it, some of them people who know absolutely nothing about how the game runs.

Hence why I've put up some services (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10746581). :smallwink:


That's the point of this thread, to try and put together some people who are going to test the work provided and to share the experiences of works already tested, since many of us swear by brew and use it a lot. It's a drop out of a bucket, but it's a start.

Exactly. Homebrew needs more love, and while there are a lot of homebrew compilations, I've never seen one with homebrew that has been actively playtested and put into Tiers. I could actually try working up to doing that as one of the goals of my Homebrew Playtest Services.

[true_shinken]

Exactly. Homebrew needs more love, and while there are a lot of homebrew compilations, I've never seen one with homebrew that has been actively playtested and put into Tiers. I could actually try working up to doing that as one of the goals of my Homebrew Playtest Services.
That is a very good idea, Morph. If you need any help with it, let me know.

[chrisrawr]

Post reserved for when I have nice/terrible things to say about the Lexeme (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90961) (and other things going on in a massive homebrew-only game) - mostly my only concern with it is the lack of Utterances and Incantations - it's fairly easy to brew some up, based off of spells or the originals, but then you have to work at it, and that's just not right.

[LansXero]

Oh, something I should mention. I'll never ever allow anything from D&DWiki in my games.

Oddly enough, a player in my game has been using the Electric Creature (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Electric_Creature_%283.5e_Template%29) template from there, and it has been fine so far.

Another homebrew we are using is the Mindflayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7947714&postcount=13) from these forums, and it has become a headache. Mindblast as written is a bit too much, and extract should have a harsher cap. Also, the way it stacks with sorcerer/psion is very unclear.

Ive been eyeing the Vestige Summoner as well as the Vestige Fusion feats for NPCs though :D

[Glimbur]

Generally, I'm open to allow homebrew for my games. However, unless it has been made by me, some of the more wel-known homebrewers (off-hand, I'd be inclined to allow nearly anything by Fax, Djinn, DW, and ErrantX), or one of the other DMs running our communal campaign, I personally take a look over it before throwing it up to a vote among the DMs, and, in some cases, the players themselves. Probably the only thing I'd disallow on reflex would be something found on DND Wiki, but that's mostly me being a lazy git.

Thus far, it's proven moderately effective, but there have been a few minor issues, but those were short-lived.

I'm one of those co-DM's. We had issues with the Hill Giant racial class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8476867&postcount=360) combined with a homebrew class based on grapple checks to tear off limbs. It was tough to find a balance between "character is useless" and "character is too good". Then we killed the character with elite gnolls, so there you are.

I tend to skim homebrew and give a snap judgment on it. Sometimes this leads to issues in game, but my players are generally mature enough to accept "so other people can have an impact too" as a reason to nerf them.

[Ernir]

The worst thing about homebrew is all the reading I have to do when my players want to use some of it. I have a reasonably comprehensive understanding of WotC D&D 3.5, whereas an overwhelming majority of the homebrew people throw at me is stuff I have never heard about before, requiring me to learn new subsystems.

The best thing about homebrew is all the reading I get to do when my players want to use some of it. I have a reasonably comprehensive understanding of WotC D&D 3.5, whereas an overwhelming majority of the homebrew people throw at me is stuff I have never heard about before, allowing me to learn new subsystems.

[Lateral]

I generally allow homebrew on a case-by-case basis; as long as the class/race/feat/whatever is reasonably well-reviewed and/or is by a homebrewer whom I know makes well-thought out homebrew (ErrantX, Fax, M-Bark, Djinn-in-Tonic, T.G.Oskar, Eldariel, etc.), then I'll do a quick look-over and say yes or no.

I haven't ever gotten to use any homebrew material in a campaign, but I built one Warblade/ War Mind/ Ephemeral Blade for (possible) eventual use, and there have been a couple of classes that I looked at and thought, "Oh, cool." (Invoker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153863) looks fun for dipping with an Iaijutsu Focus-ing Factotum, for the free Grease.)

[Veyr]

The worst thing about homebrew is all the reading I have to do when my players want to use some of it. I have a reasonably comprehensive understanding of WotC D&D 3.5, whereas an overwhelming majority of the homebrew people throw at me is stuff I have never heard about before, requiring me to learn new subsystems.

The best thing about homebrew is all the reading I get to do when my players want to use some of it. I have a reasonably comprehensive understanding of WotC D&D 3.5, whereas an overwhelming majority of the homebrew people throw at me is stuff I have never heard about before, allowing me to learn new subsystems.
Awesome. Very well said, I think.

[Coidzor]

I'd like to play the Redeemer of Regrets (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9994058&postcount=14)sometime, I think.

One of my friends keeps trying to get one of us to try out Fax Celestis' Mantle Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33551), which led us to the conclusion that one could make Eric Cartman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194888) as a Paladin using that class.

[TOZ]

Yeah. (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/houseRules/kirthGersensV2Houserules) I probably use more homebrew than published material.

[Morph Bark]

Ive been eyeing the Vestige Summoner as well as the Vestige Fusion feats for NPCs though :D

Are the Vestige Fusion feats also by Zagan? I haven't spotted those before. Care for a link, ol' chap?


I generally allow homebrew on a case-by-case basis; as long as the class/race/feat/whatever is reasonably well-reviewed and/or is by a homebrewer whom I know makes well-thought out homebrew (ErrantX, Fax, M-Bark, Djinn-in-Tonic, T.G.Oskar, Eldariel, etc.), then I'll do a quick look-over and say yes or no.

I-- am so speechless that I am thankful that we're communicating over a medium that isn't based on vocal ability.

Though I obviously assume this excludes my Commoner-based 'brew and other less serious works.

[Lateral]

I-- am so speechless that I am thankful that we're communicating over a medium that isn't based on vocal ability.
You're welcome. :smalltongue:


Though I obviously assume this excludes my Commoner-based 'brew and other less serious works.
Well, of course.

Usually. :smallwink:

[Merk]

I generally allow most/all of the disciplines from the Age of Warriors and Libram of Battle project, as well as the Harrowed, Fearnaught, Romancer, Ozodrin, Swordmage, Sagittarius, War Soul, Magitech Templar, most of Jiriku's class revisions and casters, and Realm of Chaos's fighter revision -- depending on the power level I want for a particular game. I'm very open to homebrew in general and tend to feature it over published material in like a 7:3 ratio.

[Daverin]

Whenever I get a chance I try to use homebrew. Its not even always about "fixes" per se; I almost wouldn't mind the paladin as written, for example, even when comparing it to the crusader. Rather, I would pick the crusader because its abilities, to my taste, better fit the idea of a "zealous tank" than a paladin. Of course, that is not everyone's idea of a paladin, but that is actually my point; without homebrew, we have to sometimes accept a specific definition of how something works in a system that, in general, tries to encourage creative roleplay and provides all sorts of tools for expanding or changing whats there to your taste.

Of course, there is the question of quality of homebrew, in which case I'll run it by a friend or two if I think there is anything my judgment is missing (and maybe now will go here, since as a Lateral points out, there are quite a few highly qualified homebrewers out there who I can only hope I reach the level of. :smallsmile:) But as a whole, I fully endorse, support, and use homebrew whenever I get the chance.

[Grendus]

I think my dislike of homebrew comes from the "let's make a T1 melee!" threads, which tend to stack ridiculously overpowered abilities (like the paladin fix that could cast miracle and wish at the same time in exchange for falling, and didn't pay the exp until it atoned) with pitiful balance (like that kensei homebrew that used 25 exp to "cast"). There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but a lot of times the balance ranges from suspect to wtf were they thinking.

There are some good homebrews. I'm playing T.G.Oskar's ranger revision, which is nice (the addition of druid spells and letting dual wield rangers use their dex for damage helps a lot). There's a monk revision that, aside from giving something like +80 to jump checks is nice (I oppose anything that makes me trot out the Epic Level Handbook on general principle, but the rest of the abilities are fairly sound). I've seen a few others that didn't shake things up so much. I generally prefer revisions to raw homebrew, since they have a good baseline to compare to and I know that even if I'm dealing with a homebrewed Warmage it's still mostly a blaster, even without digging out the actual thread.

If I were DM'ing though, I would reject homebrew out of reflex, and let few if any homebrew classes in. If you aren't careful, it's just asking for trouble.

[shadow_archmagi]

Note that even notable homebrewers, like Djinn, sometimes make something preposterously overpowered. Have you seen his psychokinetic wright? It's abilities end up being:

Use any raw materials to craft anything into anything instantly, even magic items. Tired of having a sword? Great, make it into any magic item or items with equivalent gold value. Go ahead, disassemble those wands of fireball and put them back together again as an iron golem.

I love Djinn, but that's a 118% power increase to a tier 1 class.

[Yora]

I think my dislike of homebrew comes from the "let's make a T1 melee!" threads, which tend to stack ridiculously overpowered abilities (like the paladin fix that could cast miracle and wish at the same time in exchange for falling, and didn't pay the exp until it atoned) with pitiful balance (like that kensei homebrew that used 25 exp to "cast"). There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but a lot of times the balance ranges from suspect to wtf were they thinking.
Though the same applies to many official publications. :smallbiggrin:
For every good spell or prestige class, there are 4 that nobody ever uses.

[LansXero]

Are the Vestige Fusion feats also by Zagan? I haven't spotted those before. Care for a link, ol' chap?

Different person, but here you go:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172251

[TOZ]

Though the same applies to many official publications. :smallbiggrin:
For every good spell or prestige class, there are 4 that nobody ever uses.

The one good thing I got out of the Pathfinder open playtest was that the game designers are no better than any other player when it comes to rules design. Reading WotC books suggested it, reading Paizo books confirmed it.

As such I will look at any homebrew item a player wants to use and make a judgement call on it. I reserve the right to ban anything in play if it proves too out there for the game, be it core rules, splat book, or homebrew.

More options make the game better for me, and the best option is the one the player comes up with himself.

[true_shinken]

The one good thing I got out of the Pathfinder open playtest was that the game designers are no better than any other player when it comes to rules design.

ORLY?
(http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/3.5e_Homebrew)

[TOZ]

YA RLY! (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedFeats.html#cockatrice-strike-(combat))


Cockatrice Strike
With a single unarmed strike, you transmute flesh to stone.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Gorgon's Fist, Medusa's Wrath, base attack bonus +16.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can make a single unarmed strike against a dazed, flat-footed, paralyzed, staggered, stunned, or unconscious foe. If that attack is a critical hit, the target is petrified unless it succeeds on a Fortitude saving throw with a DC of 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wisdom modifier. This is a supernatural polymorph effect.

This actually got published. Then errataed. How did it get errataed? They changed the BAB requirement to +14.

Also, the Scion prestige class from Ultimate Prestige Classes.

Professional game designers are no better than the average homebrewer.

[Veyr]

That seems like a fairly weak feat, but not brokenly weak.

[Lateral]

Well, not the average homebrewer. Any decent homebrewer, sure, but for every decent homebrew there are ten ill-thought-out ones by some guy who either is new to homebrew and doesn't know what they're doing, or just doesn't care. That averages out to a lot less than decent.

[TOZ]

That seems like a fairly weak feat, but not brokenly weak.

Maybe it's just Pathfinder continuing the tradition of 'no love for the monk'?

[Welknair]

The only homebrew that I use that's not my own is DementedOne's Angel of Death PrC and a couple of the Age of Warriors disciplines.

This is primarily due to my players not being very active on these forums and not knowing what I'm talking about when I mention various projects going on here.

Oh, and there's a particular feat regarding a tophat and monocle that may be making an appearance shortly...

[Morph Bark]

The amount of people mentioning Age of Warriors here makes me sad that they didn't officially add my Pungeon Pendragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156726) to the list.

I sorely do still need to playtest it.

[Lateral]

The amount of people mentioning Age of Warriors here makes me sad that they didn't officially add my Pungeon Pendragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156726) to the list.

That looks pretty cool thematically.

...I demand you make a maneuver or stance named 'Semper ubi, sub ubi'. It must be done.

[T.G. Oskar]

That seems like a fairly weak feat, but not brokenly weak.

It's insanely difficult to pull off and cripples you into doing an attack that cripples you even more.

For starters: assume the effect works as intended; the enemy is dazed, you can pull off an automatic critical hit, and the enemy becomes petrified. In that case, you're basically taking the enemy out of combat...except that you're also giving it hardness related to stone. You'd need an adamantine weapon to deal enough damage to slay it, in the rare case you want to. Ideally, you may not want to, since it's basically free loot for you.

However, of the mentioned conditions, only two provide a chance for critical hits; paralysis and unconsciousness (with paralysis leading into unconsciousness). Unconsciousness is pretty easy; you take the enemy into negative hit points, with lethal or non-lethal damage. Paralysis is a bit tougher; you need to use an ability that stuns the target. Stun, stagger and daze are also abilities that require saves. So not only you NEED to hit the target in first place, the target must FAIL a saving throw out of it.

THEN, after a round in which you can simply pull off a coup-de-grace on the same standard action while paralyzed or unconscious, or stun-lock them into oblivion with Stunning Fist, you make a full-round action to make a single attack. Unless in Pathfinder this axiom isn't true, specific beats general; thus, you can't take the benefit from Medusa's Strike while making this special action. You need to hit again, and the enemy has to fail another save in order to become petrified.

In the end, you need about 5 feats, two turns, two successful attacks and one-two successful saves to do what a spellcaster can do in a standard action with a single save.

No, this isn't a fairly weak feat; this is a terribly thought feat. You know how Cockatrice Strike would have been made better? Make it based off uses of Stunning Fist, probably 2 uses; that way, you can also do it as a standard action (or part of a full action) and would require less hassle than forcing to already take them out of combat. It's also a feat chain that's far too long. So I guess it belongs to the "broken weak" side; it requires a set of complex situations to pull off and requires about 5 feats in order to make it effective.

Now, does that mean everything off PF is just as weak? Probably yes, probably no, but it does tell that the PF developers aren't so different from WotC developers when building stuff. Homebrew, on the other hand, is much more of a gamble but the few good ones are well thought, using the ultimate criticism engine (the Internet) as a method of refining, allowing for playtesting, brainstorming and others amongst a bunch of people with radically different tastes for a much cleaner statistical sample; the process is also slightly more unforgiving, though. Cockatrice Strike is a slight example of a feat that wasn't well-thought trespassing the churn of playtesting and criticism; much like it, there are other stuff from PF that's equally less well-thought on varying degrees, and stuff that actually works better. But at least you find one that's a bomb; same as on homebrew, except that instead of a whole company and several developers, that comes from a single person. I dunno if this comparison helps illustrate what this means.

[Morph Bark]

I recently tried out some monks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10866534&postcount=54) and I gotta say, I'd love to try out Arguskos' monk sometime, because with the athletic and acrobatic tricks, you can get some good fun out of it.


That looks pretty cool thematically.

...I demand you make a maneuver or stance named 'Semper ubi, sub ubi'. It must be done.

:smalltongue: I just might, if I figure out what it would do.

[Cipher Stars]

There are few Homebrews I read through that I don't love. There like Oblivion PC mods, I gotta have them all! But... theres.. just too many to possibly incorporate them all.... And some just don't work together or work too well together....

At the moment, 'Brews of note are:
The 70+ Dragons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169209)
The Limit Dragoon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168962)
This may seem shallow, but I love my own Maid.
I love the Golden Alchemist. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170912)
The Cat classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165573)
and... well... everything I read.