PDA

View Full Version : Adapting A Swordsage (Unarmed Swordsage Question)



Hawkflight
2011-04-10, 12:27 PM
Okay, so I'm a little confused on adapting a swordsage. In the book, it says that swordsages can be adapted to other settings in various ways, but it's a little ... unclear on the specifics. For example, it says that you can remove its light armor proficiency and give it the monk's unarmed strike progression. What exactly does that mean? Does that just mean its unarmed strike damage? I would presume it also gains Improved Unarmed Strike, as otherwise it would be pointless, Does this mean it also gets Flurry of Blows? If not, how can it be adapted to get Flurry of Blows?

Greenish
2011-04-10, 12:35 PM
Adaption sections are usually only rough outlines, but if we look into Monk's description, we find this:
Unarmed Strike
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk. The unarmed damage on Table: The Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.
Flurry of Blows being a separate entity.

Alfray Stryke
2011-04-10, 12:37 PM
As I read it, it follows the following rules;

1. An unarmed swordsage gains the unarmed strike ability of the monk in exchange for his light armor proficiency.
2. An unarmed swordsage's unarmed damage follows the monk's progression
3. Monk levels and unarmed swordsage levels stack when progressing for unarmed damage. Also any prestige class that would say, "Advances Monk Abilities" also advances the unarmed swordsage's unarmed strike progression but nothing else.
4. An unarmed swordsage also counts as a monk for feats, items, and abilities that specifically call for a monk. For example, Superior Unarmed Strike would advance an unarmed swordsage's unarmed strike by 4 levels and not by the table. Also a monk's belt would advance his unarmed damage progression by 5 levels as it would for a monk.

Hawkflight
2011-04-10, 12:58 PM
Adaption sections are usually only rough outlines, but if we look into Monk's description, we find this:
Flurry of Blows being a separate entity.

That ... also brings up another question. If I then take levels in Kensai, how much XP would it cost to make Unarmed Strike his signature weapon? O.o

That said, is it possible to somehow give UASS the Flurry of Blows? Or am I stuck with feats for getting extra unarmed strikes? If so, which feats would be good for this?

Cog
2011-04-10, 01:06 PM
That ... also brings up another question. If I then take levels in Kensai, how much XP would it cost to make Unarmed Strike his signature weapon? O.o
An unarmed strike should be a single natural weapon (110% XP cost). The Kensai description is inconsistent with other uses of unarmed strike, and states that each fist must be paid for as a separate natural weapon (120% XP cost).

That said, is it possible to somehow give UASS the Flurry of Blows? Or am I stuck with feats for getting extra unarmed strikes? If so, which feats would be good for this?
Snap Kick, from ToB, is better than flurry in almost every way. The Lists of Stuff (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff) has sources of Flurry, though I know one class there - Disciple of the Eye - grants flurry instead in addition to stacking for it.

Keld Denar
2011-04-10, 01:11 PM
The rules for that are...fuzzy. The text from Kensai reads:


<snip>Imbuing Natural Weapons:
The process for imbuing a kensai's natural weapons (such as his fists) is the same as for a manufactured weapon, except all of the kensai's natural weapons of one type are imbued at 100% of the cost + 10% per natural weapon. For example, a human kensai who has Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) may turn his fists into signature weapons for 120% of the XP cost.<snip>
Given, by most readings, you only have one unarmed strike, which applies to every striking surface of your body. By this example, however, it would appear that a person has MULTIPLE unarmed strikes, one for each striking surface you care to count.

So, its pretty much up to how your DM rules UASs. If its all one weapon, then the example is wrong, and it should cost you 110% XP to enchant one natural weapon (your UAS). If each striking surface is considered a seperate weapon, as the text for Kensai tends to insinuate, then you'd have to pay 10% extra for each hand, foot, elbow, knee, head, and whatever other surface you wish to hit with, which honestly makes very little sense.

So...yea, the rules are dumb.