3.P Archer Build Critique

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

So here is what i have so far, using 3.5 and Pathfinder material.

Elf, Ranger 6/Justice of Weald and Woe 2 (Champions of Ruin)

STR :12
DEX :22 (elf +2, levels 4 and 8)
CON :14 (elf -2)
INT :14 (elf +2)
WIS :14
CHA :10

1 Improved Initiative (Finesse?)
3 Deadly Aim
5 Focus: Longbow
7 rapid Shot

Ranger Bonus Feats:
2 Point Blank Shot
6 Manyshot

Justice of Weald and Woe Bonus Feats:
2 Precise Shot


eventually, I plan to take Weapon Specialization (via Justice of Weald and Woe) and probably just be a volley archer. I do eventually get sneak attack, and the ability to use a bow in melee with taking an AoO (level 6 JWW, ECL 12). the only reason that I marked down Finesse as a maybe, is because the DM has a habit of making sure one counts how many arrows they have, of sundering bows, and rushing archers with mooks.

Any ideas would be helpful. If you have alternate ideas (that dont include Swift Hunters) I would like to hear them. Im not married to being an elf, its just a class requirement.

Thanks in advance!

[Mojo_Rat]

why no rapid shot. I'm not sure what a volley archer is. but Pf changed how many shot works.

your delay of key archery stuff til lvl 8 ish seems odd.

[Wagadodo]

If you are not married to the Ranger for ranged attack look at the Alternate class feature for the Monk the Zen Archer. Switch up your Dex and Wis stats, and upgrade your Wis each level. You can flurry with your bow attacks and at 3rd level you are able to take the feat Point Blank Master which allows you fire into melee with out taking an attack of oppurnity.

For Zen Archer
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/monk.html
For point blank master feat.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedFeats.html#point-blank-master-(combat)

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

why no rapid shot. I'm not sure what a volley archer is. but Pf changed how many shot works.

your delay of key archery stuff til lvl 8 ish seems odd.

i have rapid shot, at level 7.

[John Campbell]

What is it that you want Justice of Weald and Woe for? If it's just the no-AoOs thing, you might look at Archer Fighter in the APG instead, which will get you there faster, or just go straight Ranger and spam arrow mind at need.

Rapid Shot is basically just better than Deadly Aim, and should accordingly take priority. Barring weird corner cases, you should only ever use Deadly Aim if you're also using Rapid Shot (and then only against very low ACs, or ACs so high that you'd need nat 20s in any case), or if you can't full attack and thus can't Rapid Shot. And one of the advantages of archery is that you don't have to waste actions moving into position, and so should usually be able to full attack.

(Mounted archery makes that "practically always"... you can full-attack without penalty if your mount single-moves, and with penalties even if it's moving at a dead run. Rangers can get a mount that levels with them starting at 4th level. Just sayin'.)

You want Precise Shot ASAP. (Improved Precise Shot, too.) Your buddies will charge up into melee and block your shots. You don't really want to discourage them from doing so, either, because it helps keep the enemy from charging up and meleeing you. The -4 or -8 penalties resulting mean, at the very least, that your target selection becomes whatever you've got a clear shot at, not what you really want to be shooting. At worst, it means you're useless because you have no clear shots and so never hit anything. Take the feats that let you ignore those penalties. (Improved Precise lets you ignore most miss chances, too.)

Weapon Finesse probably isn't worth the feat. It doesn't do anything for an archer's primary fighting style, which uses Dex to attack by default, and it doesn't solve the real problem, which is that you need Str for damage anyway. Raising Str (at the expense of Wis, probably... you can use stat bumps or magic items to raise Wis later if you need it for your casting, but raising Str later is a pain in the butt as an archer, because you have to frickin' replace your frickin' bow) is probably a better way to be more effective in melee, because it helps with your archery, too.

I don't think Improved Initiative is really worthwhile, either, at least not until after you actually get Sneak Attack. With that Dex, you should have pretty good odds of going first anyway. You get more bonuses if you select your favored terrains right, too.

And it's not like there's any shortage of good (or just plain necessary) archery feats to take instead, especially if you've got all of 3.5 and Pathfinder to choose from.

The "don't have to meet prereqs" clause in the Ranger combat style feats lets you get some of them quite a bit earlier than you're really supposed to have them, too. Don't waste that on things like Manyshot, which you can meet the prereqs for and take as a regular feat by the time you get it as a combat style option anyway, when you could get Improved Precise Shot or Pinpoint Targeting five or six levels early instead.

[MeeposFire]

Besides with full BAB and no style that gives you attack penalties (power attack or two weapon fighting) you should be fine with a decent str score and a two handed weapon when you have to.

[John Campbell]

The mounted archer I've been playing actually fights weapon-and-shield in melee, with a buckler and saber (from one of the Forgotten Realms books; basically a longsword with a +1 to hit when mounted) or lance, depending on the situation. I don't have the damage output with the saber that I'd have with a two-hander, but I'll take that as the price of not having to drop my bow. And my damage output with the lance is nothing to scoff at, assuming I can get the charge in.

The buckler doesn't interfere with archery, and its shield bonus kicks in automatically without any action on my part whenever I'm not actually shooting with that hand. And it gives me something to hang armor/shield enchantments on besides my mail, which reduces the cost and increases the variety available.