Best Weapon Style for a Gish type?

[JKTrickster]

I'm building a Gish type character, probably along the lines of a Paladin/Sorcerer/Abjurant Champion, for an upcoming campaign. The nature of the campaign means good stats, healthy BaB and spells should not be a problem. But I'm kind of stuck on the type of weapon I should be using.

The issue is that I don't want to invest too many feats into my weapon style of fighting. I am referencing Two Weapon Fighting v. Two Handed Fighting v. Sword and Board, etc.

Normally Two Handed Fighting is considered superior, but I don't want to waste a huge amount of resources into a simple charger build. Again by resources I am mainly concerned with feats (as opposed to money or anything like that).

In other words, I want to ask the playground:

What is the most efficient weapon style? E.g. Gets the most output for the least input?

[Keld Denar]

2handed reach weapon. Thats pretty much the default answer. The reach is nice for getting even one extra AoO in a combat, and the ability to defeat a large foe's reach yourself without having to tumble is also very nice.

I recommend a nice glaive, or possibly a guisarme, if you want to keep tripping an option.

Or a glaive-guisarme-volgue-fork-guisarme-glaive-halberd (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html). Cause a polearm can never have enough sharp bits...ever.

[Greenish]

What is the most efficient weapon style? E.g. Gets the most output for the least input?Two-handers, hands down. TWF has it's innate feat taxes on top of the feats you'd want for damage, and s'n'b will require a few feats just to make the shield worth holding.

And, as mentioned, reach is sweet.

[Thurbane]

Ditto to above - you just can't beat 2-handed smackdown, and that sweet, sweet 2:1 Power Attack ratio. Animated Shields make sword-and-board even more redundant, sadly...

[Kaeso]

Let's not forget that a Gish always needs a free hand to cast spells, making the 2handed style not only the best, but it's only option.

You could, of course, circumvent it with shielded casting or somatic weaponry but then you're wasting a precious feat.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Stop right there, you have a fatal flaw in your reasoning: This spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) combined with Abjurant Champion makes sword-and-board completely inferior to anything else you have available. The AC bonus you get can only be matched by a +5 Tower Shield, which costs you a feat for proficiency and gold for the item. This narrows down your choices significantly.

Considering only Power Attack and Arcane Strike, the only way TWF can even match 2H in damage output is if you spend an extra four feats (TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Oversized TWF), spend twice as many spell slots on Arcane Strike, and can't use (Draconic) Polymorph to take a powerful form such as a War Troll (since the Dex score of your form will disqualify you for the higher TWF feats).

That leaves 2H as the most beneficial and least feat intensive course for a standard gish. You don't need charger feats like Shock Trooper since you can use (Extended) Wraithstrike. Leap Attack is good to have, especially if you get a Circlet of Rapid Casting and learn Whirling Blade. Note that spontaneous cast spells with metamagic feats will only have their casting time increased if the spell's normal casting time is a standard action or more, so swift spells such as Wraithstrike are still swift if you (Lesser Rod of) Extend them.

[gbprime]

Seriously, if you're throwing Abjurant Champion in the mix, don't even think about sword and board. You use the swift-action, extended, supercharged Shield spell.

And a two handed weapon, as previously mentioned. :smallcool:

[Xetheral]

As an alternative to an animated shield, if you want a two-handed weapon but also want to keep the enhancement bonus to AC provided by a [magic] shield, consider Dastana from page 15 of Arms and Equipment.

Your DM will have to decide if the armor bonuses provided by 3.0 shields automatically convert to shield bonuses, but assuming they do then any enhancement bonus on the Dastana will stack will both your armor and the Shield spell.

You could try to argue that, due to the particular wording of the Dastana rules, it's basic +1 shield bonus should ALSO stack with the Shield spell, but depending on your DM's reading of the term "shield worn" you may not get very far.

[Ravens_cry]

Another reason is that two weapon fighting has penalties, even with feats. A gish has already sacrificed some base attack bonus to get spells, two weapon fighting is bad enough without it.

[Kaeso]

Stop right there, you have a fatal flaw in your reasoning: This spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm) combined with Abjurant Champion makes sword-and-board completely inferior to anything else you have available. The AC bonus you get can only be matched by a +5 Tower Shield, which costs you a feat for proficiency and gold for the item. This narrows down your choices significantly.

Considering only Power Attack and Arcane Strike, the only way TWF can even match 2H in damage output is if you spend an extra four feats (TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Oversized TWF), spend twice as many spell slots on Arcane Strike, and can't use (Draconic) Polymorph to take a powerful form such as a War Troll (since the Dex score of your form will disqualify you for the higher TWF feats).

That leaves 2H as the most beneficial and least feat intensive course for a standard gish. You don't need charger feats like Shock Trooper since you can use (Extended) Wraithstrike. Leap Attack is good to have, especially if you get a Circlet of Rapid Casting and learn Whirling Blade. Note that spontaneous cast spells with metamagic feats will only have their casting time increased if the spell's normal casting time is a standard action or more, so swift spells such as Wraithstrike are still swift if you (Lesser Rod of) Extend them.

......Is it wrong that I heard the Phoenix Wright theme in my head while reading that?

[JKTrickster]

Thanks for the awesome advice guys! I had completely forgotten about the Need-A-Hand-To-Cast-A-Spell rule and overlooked how Abjurant Champion really made Sword and Board useless.

I appreciate everyone's help - really thanks a lot!