How does the general public feel about skill tricks?

[Ozreth]

So in my years of playing 3.5 I've never really opened the "complete" books. My group has been happy with playing mostly core and never felt like diving into the overwhelming amount of stuff out there.

Anyways I decided to take a look through complete scoundrel and started thinking about skill tricks. Now it seems that most of these "tricks" are things I was doing anyways simply using the skills and narration. Some others though seem kinda cool, like sudden draw.

But unless other classes get extra options like these isn't a bit unfair? And are they worth using in the long run?

Any thoughts would be appreciated : )

[arguskos]

Uh, anyone can take a skill trick. I'm not seeing an issue here. :smallwink:

Also, yes, they're pretty nice overall. I've been thinking about brewing up some more too, just for kicks.

[Tyndmyr]

They vary.

Point it out? Dumb. You shouldn't need to invest skill points to go "hey guys, look at that".

Some are fantastic though. Disguised casting and the like? Fun stuff.

[Glimbur]

The idea of skill tricks is interesting. Some skill tricks should just be standard uses of the skill.

[Eldan]

I think most of them are unnecessary. 90% of what's in there is handled by a player asking "can I do that?" and an appropriate skill check. There's a few that are worthwhile, but not many.

[SiuiS]

That's the trouble. RAW, you can't do that just by asking and making a check. Now it's worse; they have a Demi-feat that let's you do that, which means you can't do it without said Demi-feat.

The idea would have been better if it were implemented much sooner in development. There are a bunch of skill tricks that should just be skills, and there are tons of feats that should be skill tricks. Ive been tempted to scour my books and break them down but then my computer crashed.

A couple skill tricks are almost mandatory for certain classes. Healing hands means if a PC drops to 0 or less, they will have 6 hp when they wake up. Spot the weakpoint or whatever it's called negates enemy uber-armor (I think there is actually a feat that already does this too. I know there's a spell) and helps out rogues and anklets a ton. Never outnumbered makes intimidate work like it's supposed to.
Others, like whip climber or corner perch should just be RP'd though. I have to spend extra skill points to swing like Indiana jones? But that Belmont guy could do it for free in castlevania!

[Volos]

I've been able to make good use of Mosquito Bite only once. Me and another Rogue took it at the same time. We snuck up on a big fella and both used Mosquito Bite to get a good strike in. Then the caster made herself open so the big guy would go running at her. It provoked AoOs for us, and we had the appropiate feats to hit him with both of knifes each, so we dropped what should have been a long fight with a player death or two in a single round by covering the table in d6s.

Other Skill Tricks are useful, but only a few.

[Curmudgeon]

Most of my characters use about 3-4 skill tricks. If I expect to be in melee a lot, I'll take both "stand up" skill tricks to be able to cope with trippers.

[cfalcon]

I just ban the whole lot of them. Once I saw disguised casting took away a hugely important thing, in a way that doesn't make any sense (the triggering actions for the spell are the same- you can't hide them, that's the whole point), I just said, you know, this isn't going to be worth including.

But it seems some people play with them. I just think that they range from game breaking to not worth taking. Certainly a couple would wreck my games. I also don't like skill points becoming feats, which was the secret goal of this whole section.

[Flickerdart]

Those skill tricks which shouldn't just be uses of skills are great, because they make skill points worth a damn in combat.

[GoatBoy]

I would restrict them to the classes which are considered sub-optimal and need the ability to do more in combat than just attack. Letting classes like wizards and archivist take them just adds to the classes' already high derp factor.

[Sacrieur]

Those skill tricks which shouldn't just be uses of skills are great, because they make skill points worth a damn in combat.

Outside of ToB anyway.

---

I welcome the use of skills in battle. They're skills. You're a fighter. You must have developed them for a reason.

[Thurbane]

I like the concept of skill tricks, but I don't like how they feel like "feats-lite". I agree with maybe building the actions into the skill as a DC without requiring a trick to use them.

[Curmudgeon]

Once I saw disguised casting took away a hugely important thing, in a way that doesn't make any sense (the triggering actions for the spell are the same- you can't hide them, that's the whole point), I just said, you know, this isn't going to be worth including.
Do you realize you can do almost the same thing with a straight Sleight of Hand check (no skill trick required)? Check out Races of Stone.

[No brains]

I noticed that "Walk the Walls" really give no advantage over traditional climbing since you essentially move quarter speed anyway. The one time it does come in handy is for climbing up things that don't give you the chance to do it normally, like a wall of force.

Other than that, they were fun.

[Hirax]

I take collector of stories sometimes.

[Thurbane]

I take collector of stories sometimes.
It's nice for Knowledge Devotion and/or Dark Knowledge.

[herrhauptmann]

Most of my characters use about 3-4 skill tricks. If I expect to be in melee a lot, I'll take both "stand up" skill tricks to be able to cope with trippers.

My melee characters tend to take the two charging ones. Twisted and tumbling charge. Now ignore difficult terrain, and it's possible to bypass the screening mooks.
Granted, the skill prereqs make it difficult for nonToB warrior types to take those.

I often give my wizards (especially loremasters) the free identify one.

[gomipile]

Outside of ToB anyway.



And Tumble, and Concentration, and Handle Animal, and Ride, all of which are useful in combat in core.

[classy one]

I never make a rogue without acrobatic backstab. The interaction one are nice for dusguise and diplomacy. Assume quirk makes saves skill points that you could spend else where since you only need to convince them once.

I personally like the concept of skill tricks, it let's the skill monkeys shine that much more and they need the boost IMO. I find that many people who don't like them are non skill monkeys because now it means they can't even attempt to try it. But CScoundrel was to give skillful players an edge so in that regard I think it was a success.

[Coidzor]

I like 'em. Would've liked more of 'em and greater ability to use them.

[Feytalist]

Combat skill tricks should be mandatory additions to the skills themselves. I'm not quite sold on the mental/social skill tricks though.

I always imagine fantasy combat as less "couple of heavily armoured dudes trading blows ad infinitum" and more "tumbling jumping sneaky ninja stuff like in Prince of Persia" and I've always looked for ways to incorporate that into D&D combat.

I would totally okay a wall run/jump over enemy's head/come down flailing move with a slew of ridiculous skill checks if it has a chance of awesomeness (and, granted, an equal chance of epic failure). So if a player goes "I want to tumble past my opponent, and stab him in the back while he's bewildered" I would go "okay, Tumble DC X check, and he's flatfooted".

Or "I want to hop up onto a table, leap off it and come down with my greataxe on that dude's head"? Totally admissible. And worth an enhanced crit multiplier or something.

Maybe that's just me.

[Firechanter]

The "once per encounter" limitation makes no sense in most cases. And some, as others have said, should be standard applications of a skill without the need to sink 2 points.

Have a look at the Conan D20 maneuver system. Maneuvers are special moves that are unlocked by simply meeting certain prerequisites, which can involve for instance a certain BAB, Feat(s) or ranks in a skill. Once you meet the prereqs, you can pull off the maneuver. As simple as that.

[Ozreth]

Combat skill tricks should be mandatory additions to the skills themselves. I'm not quite sold on the mental/social skill tricks though.

I always imagine fantasy combat as less "couple of heavily armoured dudes trading blows ad infinitum" and more "tumbling jumping sneaky ninja stuff like in Prince of Persia" and I've always looked for ways to incorporate that into D&D combat.

I would totally okay a wall run/jump over enemy's head/come down flailing move with a slew of ridiculous skill checks if it has a chance of awesomeness (and, granted, an equal chance of epic failure). So if a player goes "I want to tumble past my opponent, and stab him in the back while he's bewildered" I would go "okay, Tumble DC X check, and he's flatfooted".

Or "I want to hop up onto a table, leap off it and come down with my greataxe on that dude's head"? Totally admissible. And worth an enhanced crit multiplier or something.

Maybe that's just me.

I've had this mind state before, but then the problem is all of the players want to do stuff like that every turn, because why not?. That's when you hit them over the head with a 4e book :p

[Dsurion]

The "once per encounter" limitation makes no sense in most cases. And some, as others have said, should be standard applications of a skill without the need to sink 2 points.

Have a look at the Conan D20 maneuver system. Maneuvers are special moves that are unlocked by simply meeting certain prerequisites, which can involve for instance a certain BAB, Feat(s) or ranks in a skill. Once you meet the prereqs, you can pull off the maneuver. As simple as that.This. Plus, most of the Conan maneuvers are actually both useful and relevant most of the times that they can be used. And if they're not, they at least tend to be pretty awesome concepts.

[faceroll]

Swift action concentrate is great on any gish-style build, especially druids.