LA for an Osyluth/Bone Devil?

[Eldan]

I'm thinking about playing an Osyluth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#boneDevilOsyluth)in a game (because they are awesome). Sadly, it has no Level adjustment given. So I turned to the combined wisdom of the playground: what would be appropriate?

Stats would be:

10 Outsider HD.
40ft. base speed
+11 natural armour
A bite, two claws and a sting
At will Greater Teleport dimensional anchor, invisibility, major image, wall of ice
Standard devil abilities
+10 STR, +10 DEX, +10 CON, +4 INT, +4 WIS, +4 CHA

[Sacrieur]

+10 - +12 LA.

+2 for natural armor, +4 for spell abilities, +4 for stats, and +2 for everything else.

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Not worth it, really. I doubt even the most liberal estimates given here will dip below +8.

[Sarco_Phage]

Try this (http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/shadows/Handbook/ECLcalc.html) ECL calculator!

It is terrible.

It attempted to convince me that the Bone Devil's ECL was 27.

[Sacrieur]

Try this (http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/shadows/Handbook/ECLcalc.html) ECL calculator!

It is terrible.

It attempted to convince me that the Bone Devil's ECL was 27.

Rofl. Just for that, I give you a cookie:

http://techpatio.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/cookie_law_eu.gif

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Naw but seriously, I estimated him at 20 - 22 ECL. I always felt as though the way Savage Species did things was terribly off.

[Greymane]

I'd eyeball it at 3-6 for one of my games, depending on the optimizing curve of the rest of the players.

Though 10-12 is probably accurate for a real way of calculating it like in Savage Species. Totally not worth it then.

[Sacrieur]

I'd eyeball it at 3-6 for one of my games, depending on the optimizing curve of the rest of the players.

Though 10-12 is probably accurate for a real way of calculating it like in Savage Species. Totally not worth it then.

3-6? You're raving bloody mad.

10-12 is BELOW what Savage Species would rate it. As pointed out above, Savage Species rates it at +17 LA.

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Greater teleport at will, natural weapons, natural armor of +11, invisibility at will, major image at will, HUGE stat bonuses and you'd rate it at 3-6?

Man... I'd love to play in one of your games :tongue:

[Eldan]

Hmm. That's pretty bad then.

Better find a way to build one of my own, then. Some template stacking and beguiler levels should give something similar that's actually playable.



Greater teleport at will, natural weapons, natural armor of +11, invisibility at will, major image at will, HUGE stat bonuses and you'd rate it at 3-6?

Man... I'd love to play in one of your games

That, with the 10 HD, still makes it a level 13-16 character. Sure, it has some at will-spells, but compare it to, say, a warlock of that level. Could get similar spells at will. What this gets is just the stat bonuses and teleport.

[Greymane]

3-6? You're raving bloody mad.

10-12 is BELOW what Savage Species would rate it. As pointed out above, Savage Species rates it at +17 LA.

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Greater teleport at will, natural weapons, natural armor of +11, invisibility at will, major image at will, HUGE stat bonuses and you'd rate it at 3-6?

Man... I'd love to play in one of your games :tongue:


Uh, thanks? :smalltongue:

Well, he can only carry so much stuff with him if he wants to BAMF around as a Standard action. Invisibility is easily compensated for at that level. Frankly, I think the Major Image and Ice Wall at will would be more of a headache.

He's got some good defenses, but his offense is pretty limited unless he has something he plans to build for that I can't think of off the top of my head.

[Sacrieur]

Hmm. That's pretty bad then.

Better find a way to build one of my own, then. Some template stacking and beguiler levels should give something similar that's actually playable.



That, with the 10 HD, still makes it a level 13-16 character. Sure, it has some at will-spells, but compare it to, say, a warlock of that level. Could get similar spells at will. What this gets is just the stat bonuses and teleport.

Don't forget the +11 natural armor and Large size. That's nothing to really sneeze at. And you can summon LEMURS!

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/4/20/peterpanlemur128531798863437500.jpg

[Greymane]

Hmm. That's pretty bad then.

Better find a way to build one of my own, then. Some template stacking and beguiler levels should give something similar that's actually playable.



That, with the 10 HD, still makes it a level 13-16 character. Sure, it has some at will-spells, but compare it to, say, a warlock of that level. Could get similar spells at will. What this gets is just the stat bonuses and teleport.

Which is what I was thinking. Even at 13 the Wizard has 7th level spells, which are quite frightening. You can plan for the Bone Devil easier.


Don't forget the +11 natural armor and Large size. That's nothing to really sneeze at.

And that's a good point. The Large Size might not matter too much at that level, CODzilla has been doing that for a few levels now, but NA is good no matter what. Easy to bypass, though, and I would even be okay with lowering the number if I thought it would be a problem. That's the territory of houseruling, however.

[Sacrieur]

Could always look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192151) to find something similar or request it.

[Eldan]

Could always look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192151) to find something similar or request it.

Nah. Never quite been a fan of those, really. If I play a monster, I want my ridiculous stat bonuses. Where's the fun in playing a monster that doesn't get +10 to at least one stat? :smalltongue:

[Sacrieur]

Nah. Never quite been a fan of those, really. If I play a monster, I want my ridiculous stat bonuses. Where's the fun in playing a monster that doesn't get +10 to at least one stat? :smalltongue:

I know how you feel. It just doesn't feel monstrous unless you're charging through mountains.

[Eldan]

Exactly. If I play a giant, I better want my 40 strength score.

[Greymane]

Oh, hey, you could request the way Pathfinder handles monster PCs. They go off of the CR, so you'd be looking at Level 9 there. :smallcool:

[Sarco_Phage]

Considering how CR is supposed to work, that actually makes sense.

[Eldan]

On that level, it's probably quite strong, though.

I think I'll have to homebrew a lesser Osyluth of some kind.

[Lhurgyof]

I'm thinking about playing an Osyluth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#boneDevilOsyluth)in a game (because they are awesome). Sadly, it has no Level adjustment given. So I turned to the combined wisdom of the playground: what would be appropriate?

Stats would be:

10 Outsider HD.
40ft. base speed
+11 natural armour
A bite, two claws and a sting
At will Greater Teleport dimensional anchor, invisibility, major image, wall of ice
Standard devil abilities
+10 STR, +10 DEX, +10 CON, +4 INT, +4 WIS, +4 CHA


First off, do away with outsider hit dice. Just drop them all together.

After that, I'd say make it a level table like in the CPsi.

[Eldan]

Well, these aren't my stats, I'm not homebrewing them. That's just the Bone Devil as it appears in the book. Monster classes, lesser versions, level tables et al. would just be ways to make it more playable later.

[Lhurgyof]

Osyluth, Lesser

Lesser Osyluth Traits (Ex)
Lesser Osyluths possess the following traits.


+6 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Large Size.
Outsider type (Lawful, Evil, Extraplanar)
Bony Carapace: +6 Natural Armor.
Natural Attacks: Bite (1d8), Claws (1d6), Sting (3d4). These are treated as lawful-aligned for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
Poison: Injury, Fortitude DC 10+1/2 hd+con mod. Initial Damage 1d3 str, secondary damage 1d6 str. A lesser Osyluth only creates enough venom for 3 stings a day.
Spell Like Abilities: 1/week- Greater Teleport. 1/day- Cause Fear, Fly, Dimensional Anchor, Major Image.
Darkvision 60 ft.
See in Magical Darkness
Immunity to fire and poison.
Cold and acid resistance 5
Telepathy out to 30 ft.
Automatic Languages- Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages- Undercommon, Dwarven, Gnomish, Draconic, Abyssal.
Level Adjustment: ~+3, up to you and your DM.



How'd I do?

[faceroll]

LA +2, for ECL 12. Next level the wizard's summoning you, anyway.

With all those hitdice, you're losing more than half your character classes. ToB stuff would synergize well.


Don't forget the +11 natural armor and Large size. That's nothing to really sneeze at. And you can summon LEMURS!

Large size is worth +1 LA. +11 NA is worth +1 or +2 LA. Both those things are important in a low level party, but starting with 10 HD, those things aren't much of an issue as you're going to be ECL 10 at the very least. There's no way they're worth +16 LA.

[Doug Lampert]

Considering how CR is supposed to work, that actually makes sense.

Only if you think Gear is completely and utterly worthless.

A monster that is CR9 is supposed to be an approximate match for a level 9 PC straight out of the box with no gear but what's in its monster manual entry. IME most groups try for a relatively even division of gear, so that CR 9 monster if in a party ALSO gets CR 9 gear. Which is a HUGE boost.

In 3.0 or 3.5 it also gets elite abilities, max HP at level 1, and can choose its own feats (default feats for monsters usually suck even compared to other core feats).

Broadly, CR=ECL is crap. It just doesn't work.

[Sarco_Phage]

Actually, I'd give an ECL +8 critter the WBL of its class, so... at 9th level, it'd be running around with crappy non-magical gear while everyone else is toting as many stat enhancers 36000 gp can buy. :P

[faceroll]

Actually, I'd give an ECL +8 critter the WBL of its class, so... at 9th level, it'd be running around with crappy non-magical gear while everyone else is toting as many stat enhancers 36000 gp can buy. :P

Would you also deny him an equitable share of the loot?

[Sarco_Phage]

Would you also deny him an equitable share of the loot?

Yes. Because how dare he play a Devil. He doesn't deserve any loot for choosing such a foul creature.

[faceroll]

Yes. Because how dare he play a Devil. He doesn't deserve any loot for choosing such a foul creature.

Seems like really heavy handed DMing, telling the players how their characters feel.

[Kylarra]

Oh, hey, you could request the way Pathfinder handles monster PCs. They go off of the CR, so you'd be looking at Level 9 there. :smallcool:Of course the stat bonuses are marginalized using their system, so you'd be looking at only 21 strength and so on and so forth.

[Sarco_Phage]

Seems like really heavy handed DMing, telling the players how their characters feel.

I keep on forgetting it's virtually impossible to detect sarcasm over the internet. :P

I was joking, man.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

LA4 for a nice DM like me or LA5 or a mean one. I would NOT play this thing at LA6. No freaking wa

[Greymane]

Of course the stat bonuses are marginalized using their system, so you'd be looking at only 21 strength and so on and so forth.

Very true. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.:smallfrown:

[Sacrieur]

Yeah, the people assuming he'll have stats in the low 20s... No. He won't. He'll have stats in the high 20s.

[faceroll]

Yeah, the people assuming he'll have stats in the low 20s... No. He won't. He'll have stats in the high 20s.

Or low 30s. They're all physical stats, though. Nothing too broken about that. I can get an ECL 3 character with close to 50 str.