Comic 311: Haley's Mom (again) and other questions

[Sarco_Phage]

Okay, while I wasn't the guy who pointed out that the phrasing in comic about "Haley's jewels" would seem to indicate that Haley's mom had given her the baubles directly, I just noticed another thing along those lines.

Haley's mom is mentioned by Self-Loathing as having left. However we know from recent events that her mom "leaving" involved a fatal arrow.

Yet, Haley's response to Self-Loathing would seem to imply that Haley's mom left of her own volition, rather than in a pine coffin. While you could certainly spin Self-Loathing's particular line about her Mom leaving as a fifteen year old's refusal to accept her mother's death (albeit some years after the fact), Haley's response indicates otherwise.

Although her Mom's death scene along with Ian's motivations DO indicate that Haley's Mom was certainly one of those "Pure and Good" people, she definitely did not "leave" willingly.

[ThePhantasm]

I dunno. Either we'll find out more info about this at some point (maybe she left and came back, or maybe she left and Haley and her Dad went after her and found her in that alley) or it'll just be a weird possible continuity error. Not sure we can say more than that.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I suspect that she left, Haley and Ian went after her, and they found her with an arrow in her. Thus her leaving (in Haley's mind, at least) lead to her death. Would explain her angst and self-loathing over it.

[Sarco_Phage]

That's actually a reasonable interpretation, yes, especially considering Ian looks completely surprised in the panel.

I do have another question, though.

Is the burst effect of Roy's +5 sword activated when he's angry? It would certainly seem so.

[Swordpriest]

Haley's backstory seems to be one of the shakiest of those that have been developed at all -- probably appropriate for a mistrustful rogue.

[Sarco_Phage]

Haley's backstory seems to be one of the shakiest of those that have been developed at all -- probably appropriate for a mistrustful rogue.

You'd think she'd at least have some internal consistency, but then again, internal consistency is explicitly not one of her strong suits.

[Phishfood]

Also the option that after she died from the arrow to the gut she could not be resurrected and so Haley thinks of her as leaving willingly, a la 410 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html)

[Sarco_Phage]

That thesis is pretty sound, especially considering Haley did grow up to be an adventurer, her dad was an adventurer, and her mom likely was an adventurer. The only real problem with it is the fact that there are very few clerics in the OotS world who can cast Resurrection. Durkon, Redcloak, and the Chief Cleric of the Twelve Gods are the most powerful ones we've seen, and clerics appear to be a rare commodity (the Greysky city arc illuminates that nicely).

[MesiDoomstalker]

Is the burst effect of Roy's +5 sword activated when he's angry? It would certainly seem so.

No. It has extra effect on Undead, which is very convient against Xykon and his, Redcloak's, and Tsikuki's undead minions and Outsiders like Sabine. This is because of the Starmetal that is infused in the sword. If I remember correctly, the canon Starmetal only affects Outsiders but Rich most likely just threw in Undead to make its a serious threat to Xykon.

[Ancalagon]

It also seems to be actived when he's angry.

We know the sword is particularly effective vs. undead, but the green glow seems to come also vs. non-undead targets (Sabine).

If the "glow" is the thing that is particularly effective vs. undead or if it is something else (extra damage on Roy being angry or just some graphical effect) is currently unknown to us.

[Sarco_Phage]

I know what Starmetal's capable of, which is why it's curious that it has an effect on Miko, for instance.

[Kish]

Yes, it appears to be activated when he's angry. Yes, it appears to affect everyone, not just undead, or just undead and outsiders. It may be--probably is--especially damaging against undead on top of the "against anyone" damage.

As for Haley's mother, have you truly never read a book or psychological case study in which someone felt emotionally that someone else who had died had "left them," despite knowing rationally that they hadn't chosen to die?

[Sarco_Phage]

As for Haley's mother, have you truly never read a book or psychological case study in which someone felt emotionally that someone else who had died had "left them," despite knowing rationally that they hadn't chosen to die?

No, my training is philosophical and literary, so I took as few psych classes as I possibly could.

I can recall certain things about trauma and death in early childhood, but I'm not sure how old Haley was when her mom died - and she appears to remember it very clearly.

On the other hand, Haley is, as I previously mentioned, literally made up of inconsistencies. Resolving them has been a part of her character arc before.

[SavageWombat]

"Why did you leave me, mom?" is the traditional cry of the child who loses their mother. Even if it was not a voluntary departure.

It's part of the psych baggage of the small child - they didn't really understand that mom didn't have a choice, even with the arrow sticking out like that way.

It doesn't strike me as an inconsistency.

[Sarco_Phage]

"Why did you leave me, mom?" is the traditional cry of the child who loses their mother. Even if it was not a voluntary departure.

It's part of the psych baggage of the small child - they didn't really understand that mom didn't have a choice, even with the arrow sticking out like that way.

It doesn't strike me as an inconsistency.

Dude, Haley is approximately 27.

[Zerg Cookie]

Haley is 24. It's in the beggining of one of the books (War&XPs IIRC but I'm not sure and they're in my boarding school while I'm home so I can't check it)

[Acrux]

Dude, Haley is approximately 27.

There are people well into advanced ages that have the same response.

[Sarco_Phage]

There are people well into advanced ages that have the same response.

I know, that's why I mentioned that the personality that expresses the "mom left" thing isn't the main Haley, it's Self-Loathing, who identifies as a teenager.

[SPoD]

I know what Starmetal's capable of, which is why it's curious that it has an effect on Miko, for instance.

Only Rich knows what the starmetal in Roy's sword is capable of. He made it up. The fact that there are D&D books with a metal that is similar in origin (or even name) means exactly nothing. It's not exactly a stunningly original naming scheme for metal that came from the stars.

Also, if you think being 24 automatically means that a person will have already resolved all of the emotional issues of their childhood in an ordered, rational manner, then you have probably had very different life experiences than...everybody else. In the world. My mother hasn't resolved all the emotional issues of her childhood, and she's turning 60.

[Sarco_Phage]

Also, if you think being 24 automatically means that a person will have already resolved all of the emotional issues of their childhood in an ordered, rational manner, then you have probably had very different life experiences than...everybody else. In the world. My mother hasn't resolved all the emotional issues of her childhood, and she's turning 60.

That's not what I said. :/ The fact that Haley has a mass of internal personalities, including a very dominant self-loathing personality very strongly implies that she hasn't sorted out those issues.

It's only the inner personalities that are conscious of it.

The fact that one of her most dominant personalities identifies as a teenager signifies that strongly.

[Morquard]

It's quite possible Haley somehow blames herself for her mother being in that alley in the first place, no matter if that blame is justified or not.

Maybe the two had an argument, Mom left and died. She didn't leave because of the argument, but because she had a job to do.

Or Haley ran away from home, trying to proof she can be a grown-up rogue already, mom and dad came after her and she got shot.

Or 200 other possibilities.

[Ancalagon]

That's not what I said. :/

It is.

I'm not looking for the exact quote but what else is "Dude, she's 27" supposed to mean in that specific context?