League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread

[wojonatior]

And, to address Wojo's complaint...there will be Admins other than me. Currently it's Mario and I, but more will be added in the next few days.


Not to be annoying or anything, but Mario is rarely on aswell.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Not to be annoying or anything, but Mario is rarely on aswell.

Well, it's me, Mario, Arb as admins, and Faulty has move privileges at the moment. There will likely be more.

I have top-level admin powers.

Admins are currently Mario, Arb, Nano, Faulty, and Raven.

[Hyudra]

Alien Swarm and such don't actually work for that. Activating things such as the Humble Indie Bundles do though.

Out of curiosity - I've got a spare copy of Portal, would that help anyone to activate Steam?

[wojonatior]

Well, it's me, Mario, Arb as admins, and Faulty has move privileges at the moment. There will likely be more.

Ok then, I'll just stop complaining, I don't feel like this is the proper solution, but people didn't seem to like my idea. I did have like 7-8 people on the server at one time, I was still trying to tell people about it, I made it like a grand total of a day or two ago >.<

Also, I like the idea of having a centralized game room, and then a lounge and AFK channel or whatever, but I formally detest any server without a pony-themed channel/subchannels.

[Astrella]

Also, I like the idea of having a centralized game room, and then a lounge and AFK channel or whatever, but I formally detest any server without a pony-themed channel/subchannels.

I support this. I'll secretly loathe you until you make this happen, Djinn.

[Faulty]

Admins are currently Mario, Arb, Nano, Faulty, and Raven.

Could you explain the admin capabilities to me at some point? XD

[Silverraptor]

Well, it's me, Mario, Arb as admins, and Faulty has move privileges at the moment. There will likely be more.

I have top-level admin powers.

Admins are currently Mario, Arb, Nano, Faulty, and Raven.

Wait... Faulty has more privilages than me?!:smalleek:

[Raistlin1040]

I HAVE ACHIEVED LEVEL 3 BRAVERY AS TRYNDAMERE!

Noob Brand thought he was a higher bravery level than me. He was like 50/0/10 and I was like 20/4/20, but I had 20 stacks on everything. He only had a 20 stack soulstealer. He didn't even OWN the other items. What a noob.

[Neftren]

No, bad.
The proper thought process should be,

"I have gold, why not get Mejai's, Leviathan, and Sword of the Occult?"

Well, for Bravery, you have to declare it first, and I had already built RoA, so...


Well, it's me, Mario, Arb as admins, and Faulty has move privileges at the moment. There will likely be more.

I have top-level admin powers.

Admins are currently Mario, Arb, Nano, Faulty, and Raven.


Another suggestion: Can we get one for every major time zone, or try to have enough spread around on various hours so that we aren't left hanging on Saturday morning going, "hey, where's an admin when you need one"?

This is in addition to my channel re-ordering suggestions (because hey, lounge at top was totally a brilliant idea, right? Right.).

[Mtg_player_zach]

As for the mumble, I think we should have a finding games section like neftren suggested and then a section of teams 1-whatever to play in. I would like to request being able to make temporary channels, I know I've used it before to throw up a channel called "ranked game in progress, don't disturb" and also to make a channel to sit in when I'm afk, I don't like that the AFK channel suppresses me, I want to not be in the room with all the people in it so I can play some random steam game, but I want to be able to be contacted still in case people want to invite me to games.

Also, I can admin if you want. I keep a level head usually. Got my usual admin experience from moderating ChHa and all that.

I'll edit this post for clarity and grammar after dinner.

[Inhuman Bot]

Technically, he is correct, in that Steam does require a game in the library to work. However, there are free games available which will activate Steam—Alien Swarm comes to mind. If you "purchase" one of those games, Steam will become fully functional.

It works if you have a steam account for.. Like, 6 months, too.

[Inhuman Bot]

Also, I like the idea of having a centralized game room, and then a lounge and AFK channel or whatever, but I formally detest any server without a pony-themed channel/subchannels.

My unrelenting hatered for having pony-themed channels/subchannels is probably all the reason you need to create them.

[Math_Mage]

Out of curiosity - I've got a spare copy of Portal, would that help anyone to activate Steam?

I dunno, but since I've never actually played Portal, I'd take it anyway. Heh.

Nah, I should probably just go buy it.

[Dralnu]

So.. My computer isn't the greatest. 1.80GHz and 2.00GB of RAM, whatever that means. I was wondering if I could realistically record my LoL games and if so, would anyone recommend a specific program to do so?

[toasty]

So I finally got to see what happens with a 1700 elo player plays at 12-1300 elo. Its really funny. Thank you so much efdf, I wish we could play together more often.

[Spartacus]

Technically, he is correct, in that Steam does require a game in the library to work. However, there are free games available which will activate Steam—Alien Swarm comes to mind. If you "purchase" one of those games, Steam will become fully functional.

I was chatting with folks on Steam long before I actually owned a Steam game, as Steam was the only place to reliably find them. What is it that supposedly doesn't activate unless you own a game?

[Math_Mage]

So.. My computer isn't the greatest. 1.80GHz and 2.00GB of RAM, whatever that means. I was wondering if I could realistically record my LoL games and if so, would anyone recommend a specific program to do so?

This program (http://www.leaguereplays.com/) makes replays without unduly straining your comp. At least, I'm able to run it on a run-of-the-mill Toshiba--2.20 GHz and 4 GB RAM. I seriously doubt my machine could handle FRAPS or other standard streaming/recording equipment, let alone yours.


So I finally got to see what happens with a 1700 elo player plays at 12-1300 elo. Its really funny. Thank you so much efdf, I wish we could play together more often.

I had this dubious honor as well. I fed in one of his Ranked games and 'helped' him test solo top Olaf with my face. I may have told these stories already. Conclusion: gotta get better. Ah well, that's always true.

[Volatar]

So I think I might have gotten this Ashe thing figured out:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4568/ashebg.png
The game before that one was very similar, with 8/1/11. :smallbiggrin:



So.. My computer isn't the greatest. 1.80GHz and 2.00GB of RAM, whatever that means. I was wondering if I could realistically record my LoL games and if so, would anyone recommend a specific program to do so?

Probably not, but you can give it a try. Grab Fraps. Theres a free version where you can record 30 second clips at a time, which will tell you weither you can record or not. You will have to buy(or pirate)the full version if you want to record whole games though.

[ShortOne]

Another suggestion: Can we get one for every major time zone, or try to have enough spread around on various hours so that we aren't left hanging on Saturday morning going, "hey, where's an admin when you need one"?

I think the question should actually be, "When are the times that no admins are on?" The other question should be, "What are the main time zones people are based in?" From my observations, I've seen mainly EST with a sprinkling of PST and Brit-zone. I know that 5/6 of the current admins are in EST (don't know about Arb). I'd say that we should watch for times that a /lot/ of people are on but no admins are.

[toasty]

Most people are on the East Coast. I think Faulty is on the West Coast (of Canada) me and Wojo are in CST. Sirro, etc operate on EU time. We don't really have anyone in Asia (except me when I visit my family and when that happens I don't use mumble).

So basically we need 1 guy who's on a lot from the EU and then ... people in North America.

[Master_Rahl22]

Dralnu, that's the specs of my home computer and it can barely even play LoL. I would be surprised if you could stream.

[Astrella]

Most people are on the East Coast. I think Faulty is on the West Coast (of Canada) me and Wojo are in CST. Sirro, etc operate on EU time. We don't really have anyone in Asia (except me when I visit my family and when that happens I don't use mumble).

So basically we need 1 guy who's on a lot from the EU and then ... people in North America.

I operate on Sirro time.

[toasty]

I'm not sure what to make of Bunny Teemo. Its so... horrible. :smallsigh:

[Dogmantra]

I'm not sure what to make of Bunny Teemo. Its so... horrible. :smallsigh:

He bounces like a cyoot widdle bunny wabbit and it is a-dore-a-bubble.

[Science Officer]

Out of curiosity - I've got a spare copy of Portal, would that help anyone to activate Steam?

I don't think so. Pretty sure passes and gifts don't count.

[Neftren]

I think the question should actually be, "When are the times that no admins are on?" The other question should be, "What are the main time zones people are based in?" From my observations, I've seen mainly EST with a sprinkling of PST and Brit-zone. I know that 5/6 of the current admins are in EST (don't know about Arb). I'd say that we should watch for times that a /lot/ of people are on but no admins are.

Well, I don't think judging purely by time zone is helpful. Essentially, I'm online (or can be) from 8:30am EST to 11:30pm EST, bar an hour or two for lunch and dinner, on weekdays. On weekends, I'm on essentially all of Saturday, and all of Sunday afternoon after 3pm. Some people are just on way more often than others, and are generally more consistently on than others.




And Science Officer, Portal will activate Steam's higher functions, as it is a "full" game.

[toasty]

He bounces like a cyoot widdle bunny wabbit and it is a-dore-a-bubble.

Teemo has too many skins. Also: super cute creatures have no place in the deadly and dangerous world of LoL. :smalltongue:

[Arbitrarity]

I think the question should actually be, "When are the times that no admins are on?" The other question should be, "What are the main time zones people are based in?" From my observations, I've seen mainly EST with a sprinkling of PST and Brit-zone. I know that 5/6 of the current admins are in EST (don't know about Arb). I'd say that we should watch for times that a /lot/ of people are on but no admins are.

Mods r sleep.


Post sinks.

[Frankelshtein]

Have some spare IP, need help deciding between Kennen and Ezreal.

Ezreal is awesometastic, but Kennen is a flippin' ninja. Tough decision :smallannoyed:

[toasty]

Have some spare IP, need help deciding between Kennen and Ezreal.

Ezreal is awesometastic, but Kennen is a flippin' ninja. Tough decision :smallannoyed:

There are very few instances where Kennen can't be replaced by Anivia and Ez by Ashe or Corki. Get them instead. If you have them, buy runes. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, the last champions i bought were Noc and Jarvan, and Noc was recently nerfed and Jarvan is probably OP. Oh wait, I bought Ryze, but he's also OP. :smallbiggrin:

[Volatar]

Djinn gave me admin earlier. On the whole I generally play in EU time (4-8pm GMT) even though I live on the east coast of the US.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, the last champions i bought were Noc and Jarvan, and Noc was recently nerfed and Jarvan is probably OP. Oh wait, I bought Ryze, but he's also OP. :smallbiggrin:

Noc still v. good tho.

[Science Officer]

And Science Officer, Portal will activate Steam's higher functions, as it is a "full" game.

But, in this case, it would be a gift.

You know what? I don't even know.

[Dogmantra]

Get them instead.
Alternatively he could not have a SNORE FEST and get to play COOL champions for COOL people.

And I'd take issue with the fact that Anivia can replace Kennen. Kennen is initiation and CC, Anivia is damage with CC on the side.

[Volatar]

Alternatively he could not have a SNORE FEST and get to play COOL champions for COOL people.

And I'd take issue with the fact that Anivia can replace Kennen. Kennen is initiation and CC, Anivia is damage with CC on the side.

Yeah, due to the power of CC I would actually take Kennen over Anivia.

[Neftren]

But, in this case, it would be a gift.

You know what? I don't even know.

It still counts. The mechanism is mostly irrelevant to determining ownership. As long as a full, legitimate title is attached to an account, then everything is fine.

[Volatar]

So uh, maybe we should talk about League of Legends instead of moving the contents of the Steam thread to here :smalltongue:

[Math_Mage]

So I was watching Saintvicious' restream of CLG vs. WHALE, and at several points he was...well, contemptuously dismissive of the EU carry/support duo-lane strategy. His basic claim was that NA would easily counter that by putting a double stun lane bot, with the given example of Alistar/Cho'gath played in the match he was commentating. EU players, I'm wondering what your response to this would be. How troublesome would such a lane be to your usual setup, and how would you respond to it?

[term1nally s1ck]

You play safe, hang back, and get CS. You're ranged, they're probably not, you bait the stuns when you can to burn their mana, and you last-hit and ONLY last hit like your life depends on it.

It does make that lane a pain, and you have to play super conservative for a long time, which will make them quite happy to do dragons, cos bot can't push while they do it.

I've actually switched to the roaming setup when I can, but when we do duolane we've switched out to a dominant duo for bot, due to it working better at our ELO. Taric and anyone with strong CC tends to be our favored strategy. Oftentimes, it's a chogath, alistar, or another tank, and they almost always with that lane.

[Dralnu]

This program (http://www.leaguereplays.com/) makes replays without unduly straining your comp. At least, I'm able to run it on a run-of-the-mill Toshiba--2.20 GHz and 4 GB RAM. I seriously doubt my machine could handle FRAPS or other standard streaming/recording equipment, let alone yours.

Thanks, it works great. Unfortunately I can't use it for my goal of posting video guides though. My comp is too crappy for that.


There are very few instances where Kennen can't be replaced by Anivia and Ez by Ashe or Corki. Get them instead. If you have them, buy runes.

Yeah, the last champions i bought were Noc and Jarvan, and Noc was recently nerfed and Jarvan is probably OP. Oh wait, I bought Ryze, but he's also OP.

Pfft. You can be very effective with any champion. Both champions are incredibly fun and IMO that's what should count the most unless you're +2400 elo and playing in tournaments.

That said, addressing the question at hand: It depends what type of champion you want to buy.

Ezreal is a ranged carry that's generally built as AD. His damage is lower than some other carries, but his main advantage is his safety due to Mystic Shot's very long range and his built-in Flash. He's heavily reliant on his spammable skillshot, so if you don't like skillshots then I wouldn't recommend him.

Kennen is a ranged damage/CC'er. He has high mobility and great harrass, but his main draw is his ability to stun multiple targets. His stuns are great for ganks and team fights, especially due to his ult's very generous range centered around himself. To stun targets, however, he must enter melee range and his damage is good but not amazing. He also has a skillshot but it's not the primary focus like Ezreal.

Personally, I bought Ezreal a while ago and still love him. I'm actually saving for Kennen right now! :smallbiggrin:

[Volatar]

Neftren will be happy:

Caitlyn is getting buffed.

Source. (http://mobile.twitter.com/Shureria/statuses/60053135095382017)

[Duos]

So I got my 350 RP (woo!) And now I need to decide which champion to get with it.

It makes me sad that Karthus is on sale and he's barely 150 RP more than the freebie RP that Riot gave out and I want him so bad and I promised myself I wouldn't spend money on this game but I just spent all my IP on Blitz and some Armor/Lvl seals and AAAAAHRG.

But yeah, I have 350 RP to spend. Thoughts? Should I get Eve while she's on sale? Should I wait for another 3150 champ to go on sale that I want? Do I do something stupid and use my RP to buy a 450 champ? I don't know what to do because the leftover RP is going to sit there forever and I want to get the most out of it.

Also, people are far too careless around Blitzcrank. I went 5/0/0 in a solo lane vs. Annie and Akali soley by yanking them into my tower and popping them up, then proceeded to get fed and ran around all game punching people so hard they felt it through the Interwebs.

[Neftren]

Neftren will be happy:

Caitlyn is getting buffed.

Source. (http://mobile.twitter.com/Shureria/statuses/60053135095382017)

Eh. I think Caitlyn needs a minor re-work over anything else. Her problem is that she lacks a consistent form of CC (Ashe arrow + slow), but has nothing really to make up for it in a teamfight (while say, MF has Bullet Time, which scales fantastically with AD) and her escape is sub-par to Corki's.

It's kind of late where I am, so I'm going to head to bed and come up with something tomorrow... yeah... anyway, have a nice night everyone.

[Dogmantra]

To stun targets, however, he must enter melee range

Not entirely true, he can stun one target at a range with Electrical Surge + Surge Proc + Shuriken (or any combination of the three) but he can't stunlock multiple targets without entering melee, true. For a really involved, fun and amazingly interesting laning dynamic, I'd go with Kennen. If you want an all around fun champion that makes you kind of giddy with animu goodness then go for Ezreal.

[Math_Mage]

So I got my 350 RP (woo!) And now I need to decide which champion to get with it.

It makes me sad that Karthus is on sale and he's barely 150 RP more than the freebie RP that Riot gave out and I want him so bad and I promised myself I wouldn't spend money on this game but I just spent all my IP on Blitz and some Armor/Lvl seals and AAAAAHRG.

But yeah, I have 350 RP to spend. Thoughts? Should I get Eve while she's on sale? Should I wait for another 3150 champ to go on sale that I want? Do I do something stupid and use my RP to buy a 450 champ? I don't know what to do because the leftover RP is going to sit there forever and I want to get the most out of it.

Also, people are far too careless around Blitzcrank. I went 5/0/0 in a solo lane vs. Annie and Akali soley by yanking them into my tower and popping them up, then proceeded to get fed and ran around all game punching people so hard they felt it through the Interwebs.

If a 1350 champ you want is available for <350 RP, get it; that's more than the IP you'd get from a boost (unless you bought 1-day and played an obscene number of games).

[Arcanoi]

I personally would hold onto the freebie RP until a 520RP Skin you want went on sale.

[Spartacus]

I'm saving it for another Urf type occurrence.

[toasty]

So Shaella just said that Ashe is the root of all the tanky-dps problems that LoL has.

And you know what? That Forum troll has a point. :smalltongue:

edit: I see MathMage's post. To reiterate: Shaella has a point, its not a particularly well-articulated one, but its funny the way he said it. Also, the fact that Ashe has a built in slow and probably one of the best ults in the game is rather obnoxious.

[term1nally s1ck]

Best kiter, so tanky dps must be either tanky enough to ignore her damage, or have enough gap closing that being melee isn't a balancing factor.

Yeah, makes sense.

[Joran]

So Shaella just said that Ashe is the root of all the tanky-dps problems that LoL has.

And you know what? That Forum troll has a point. :smalltongue:

edit: I see MathMage's post. To reiterate: Shaella has a point, its not a particularly well-articulated one, but its funny the way he said it. Also, the fact that Ashe has a built in slow and probably one of the best ults in the game is rather obnoxious.

She also has no escape mechanisms, so Assassins eat my lunch (drink my milkshake?) if my tanks can't protect me.

[toasty]

She also has no escape mechanisms, so Assassins eat my lunch (drink my milkshake?) if my tanks can't protect me.

This is true, but its funny to note that assassins like Kassadin and Akali are probably underrated in NA meta. In fact, they've never been popular in NA meta. It's always been those silly EU boys who are off banning kass or running jungle akali. :smalltongue:

[Dogmantra]

So Shaella just said that Ashe is the root of all the tanky-dps problems that LoL has.

And you know what? That Forum troll has a point. :smalltongue:

This reminds me. In solo queue/normal queue, how on earth are you supposed to win a game where your opponents are split pushing if you don't have great initiation? I've been running into this problem a ton recently, since I play with some of my friends, and they all tend to play only three or so champions, none of whom can initiate. Half our losses are because I did not want to play Amumu again and then we get put against some uber-tanky split push team. HOW DO YOU WIN.

[term1nally s1ck]

Spread out, ward up, and pick people off on the way to start pushes by collapsing your team onto them.

[TheEndIsNear]

I didn't get my RP whats up?!

[Brother Oni]

Did you log in at all while they had the instability issues?

I believe the qualification was that you had to have played a game during the previous month, but I'm not sure.

[term1nally s1ck]

Go into the shop and it should appear.

[Astrella]

I didn't get my RP whats up?!

As Oni says, you need to have logged in during the server instability, which would be last Tuesday afternoon - evening.

[ZombyWoof]

This is true, but its funny to note that assassins like Kassadin and Akali are probably underrated in NA meta. In fact, they've never been popular in NA meta. It's always been those silly EU boys who are off banning kass or running jungle akali. :smalltongue:
Really? Because Elementz rates Kassadin moderately highly (especially in solo qeue) and Annie is very good at the anti-carry role as well.

But I agree, Ashe is way OP when the team knows how to keep the enemies off of me.

[Faulty]

The best League of Legends advice. (http://reignofelementz.com/2011/be-inspired)

[Tono]

So playing a game yesterday, I forget the whole layout but I was playing GP, the other team was at baron and we were not there. Ryze noticed it and placed a ward over the edge, but we had no chance of getting there in time. I poped my ulti on them hoping that with the ward + ulti they would assume we were initiating and back off, giving us a second to get there. They didn't, they're shaco missed his smite, and GP ulti stole baron. :smallcool:

[Master_Rahl22]

I had another lesson in not surrendering last night. I was playing Malphite for like the 5th time ever and we had a sorta bad Nasus, a feeder Karthus (who still managed to get kills with his ult), and an excellent Lee Sin and Brand. The enemy team was a really good TF, a decent Brand and Shaco and Maokai, and kinda bad WW who was jungling.

We had lots of trouble early on with TF getting fed and WW grabbing a few kills as well. We were down by 15 kills and had lost the first tower in all 3 lanes without dropping any of theirs by 24 minutes. The feeder Karth kept voting no on surrendering just to troll, and somebody else did as well. Finally, I pinged middle and I said, "If we're going to get stomped can we at least kill a tower first? Come push." We actually grouped up all 5 for the first time in the game and aced them, then took all 3 mid towers in the resulting push. Suddenly even feeder Karth goes, "Huh guess we should stick together" and we proceed to push all 3 lanes steadily since they were too squishy to stand up to us when I initiated, and we won at 48 minutes.

I asked how I did since I was looking for honest feedback, and TF said "I hated you the most" so I think I was doing a pretty good job tanking. :smallbiggrin:

[Zeful]

The best League of Legends advice. (http://reignofelementz.com/2011/be-inspired)

Faulty I hate to be that guy, but that's pretty much common sense.

[Eldariel]

Faulty I hate to be that guy, but that's pretty much common sense.

Then again, common sense isn't so common.

[Folytopo]

Then again common sense is a horrible term because it means acquired life experience and is not some universal logical underpinning of society. Hence the common sense rather than the sense. Also that advice is horrible because someone who makes poor decisions from an outsiders perspective often does not know if there decision will be poor or not so thinking about it at the time is a worthless endeavorer. However, it helps if somebody is helped by spending the time to think about their decisions.

[toasty]

Really? Because Elementz rates Kassadin moderately highly (especially in solo qeue) and Annie is very good at the anti-carry role as well.

But I agree, Ashe is way OP when the team knows how to keep the enemies off of me.

Kass is rated moderately high, he's a good champ, people in North America don't play him much and prefer mages like Ryze, Anivia, Sion and Annie.

Annie isn't so much an Anti-carry as she is "OMFG TIBBERS!" :smallbiggrin:

[Silverraptor]

Most people are on the East Coast. I think Faulty is on the West Coast (of Canada) me and Wojo are in CST. Sirro, etc operate on EU time. We don't really have anyone in Asia (except me when I visit my family and when that happens I don't use mumble).

So basically we need 1 guy who's on a lot from the EU and then ... people in North America.

I'm on the west coast too, if we need another admin on the west coast.

[Math_Mage]

So Shaella just said that Ashe is the root of all the tanky-dps problems that LoL has.

And you know what? That Forum troll has a point. :smalltongue:

edit: I see MathMage's post. To reiterate: Shaella has a point, its not a particularly well-articulated one, but its funny the way he said it. Also, the fact that Ashe has a built in slow and probably one of the best ults in the game is rather obnoxious.

To which I'll say what I'm about to write in the thread: Ashe kiting people is not a problem. Ranged DPS kiting tanky DPS is 100% how this game should be played. Burst mages and assassins, who can't be kited, counter ranged DPS; and tanky DPS, who can ignore the burst, counter burst mages and assassins. Ashe < Yi < Olaf < Ashe. Somewhere along the line this was forgotten, and tanky DPS got the ability to ignore kiting. Or perhaps assassins got the ability to build tanky, depending on who you look at.

Is that a bad thing? Heck, the above scenario doesn't even figure tanks, support, or teamfights into the picture. Tanky DPS with gap closers and CC are of a piece with Riot's other experimentation--tanky AoE mages like Morgana, support carries like Lux/Kayle, whatever the heck Blitzcrank and Teemo are supposed to be, etc. But to the degree that there's a problem, it's tanky DPS that can't be kited, not ranged DPS that can kite.

I'll admit, Ashe is one of the least susceptible to assassination due to her skillset. In theory, that's supposed to be compensated by reduced damage output compared to MF/Twitch/Sivir/other ranged carries; but lots of those champs had their damage nerfed hard.

[Joran]

I'll admit, Ashe is one of the least susceptible to assassination due to her skillset. In theory, that's supposed to be compensated by reduced damage output compared to MF/Twitch/Sivir/other ranged carries; but lots of those champs had their damage nerfed hard.

I'd argue that Corki, Tristana, and Ezreal are less susceptible to assassinations in team fights, since they have an innate blink. Ashe's DPS is also not quite as good as Corki's (I think), but she's adequate and can poke.

What makes Ashe superb is that she can initiate, unlike any other ranged carry and has a mini-clairvoyance which helps her avoid bad situations like face-checking bushes and gaining some map control.

P.S. Regarding Tanky DPS, it's pretty odd. Sure, we have new champions like Xin Zhao, Reneketon, Irelia, and Garen all causing problems but for a long time, champions like Singed, Alistar, and Cho'gath were considered fine, but now are getting nerfed because they're OP.

[Dogmantra]

What makes Ashe superb is that she can initiate, unlike any other ranged carry and has a mini-clairvoyance which helps her avoid bad situations like face-checking bushes and gaining some map control.

If anyone fulfills the "AD Support" role that they made Caitlyn for, it's certainly Ashe.

[Silverraptor]

So after an awesome game that I should've streamed, I finally got enough IP for Xin. In accordance with my new goal, I aim to buy all of team Demacia and become good with them. So far I have Garen, Lux, and Galio, all of which I am pretty good with. Now I ask on how I should build Xin so that I may become good with him as well. While I'm learning him, I'll be saving up to buy Jarvin.:smallcool:

[Volatar]

That game took far too long. The enemy built tank first, and was annoying as hell. Trundle and Cho'Gath build a GA as one of their first items :smallfurious:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1775/superlongashe.png

[toasty]

I just played back door TF. We would have won if it wasn't for pantheon being super fed early game.

In fact, next time I play TF I'm going Revive Teleport and it will be so much fun. :smallbiggrin:

P.S. Regarding Tanky DPS, it's pretty odd. Sure, we have new champions like Xin Zhao, Reneketon, Irelia, and Garen all causing problems but for a long time, champions like Singed, Alistar, and Cho'gath were considered fine, but now are getting nerfed because they're OP.

Alistair isn't part of the tanky dps problem, he's part of the roaming problem. Eve is another example of this hero, but she's been an issue for longer, she just had a lull and is back now.

The biggest problem with balancing this game is that, basically, there are 70 champions. On top of this, people play very carefully, especially at the top brackets. Why play someone like Singed when you can play Shen instead? WHat has happened is that people have banned other heroes and brought heroes like Singed into the lime light. The entire meta cycle is really interesting and its just a combination of how Riot has decided to nerf certain heroes and playstyles as well as release certain kinds of champions.

To be honest, there isn't a lot Riot can do. They have had the tank DPS problem since Xin Zhao and Garen. That's over a year ago. Its gotten worse with the meta cycle, but remember a few months ago when Morde/Gragas/Malphite/Cho were super OP? Of those, only Cho has really survived, though Gragas and Malphite are situationally good. LoL basically has the opposite problem of DotA, which is where its easier to build tank than it is DPS, and, as a result, there is a tanky dps problem. This is compounded by heroes like Jarvan (now), Garen (then), Cho'gath (then/now) because they naturally have high DPS and certain items make them unkillable. Thank God they removed sunfire stacking at least.

Edit: By not a lot they can do, I mean that if they nerf tanky-dps enough then we end up with the same problem that DotA has, and that we encountered when Twitch and Sivir were OP: Super Carries. Basically the game turns into "who can feed the carry better?" Which is by far in a way the worst aspect of DotA.

[Astrella]

New possible upcoming Xin changes:


Hello again!

We talked a lot about the Xin nerfs last week, and possible buffs to him to compensate. Here's the current plan;



Three Talon Strike

Fixed a bug where Three Talon Strike could be activated while it was still active.


General

Base attack damage increased to 59.1 from 52.3
Attack damage per level decreased to 3.1 from 3.3


Battle Cry

Passive Attack Speed is no longer removed while the ability is on cooldown
Attack Speed increased to 20/25/30/35/40% from 15/20/25/30/35%


Crescent Sweep

Armor and Magic resist reduced to 25 at all levels.
Now scales and gives 7/10/13 Armor and Magic Resist for each champion hit




We believe this will be a good set of changes to fix the original problems and make him generally better in most elo ranges. The change to Battle Cry will add a ton of consistency.

We expect this to go out this patch.

[toasty]

I saw those, Sirro, was very pleased. I think the Buff on his attack speed spell will really, really help him out.

[Astrella]

Oh, Fiddlestick change previews as well:


Hey all,

Since these previews have (generally) spurred good discussion, I wanted to talk about a Fiddlesticks mini-rework we have in the pipe.

Dark Wind: Bounces changed to 5 at all ranks. Silence duration 1.5 at all ranks. Leveling the skill increases base damage. Large increase to AP ratio.

Drain: Now heals for a % of damage as health. Begins at 50% and scales up with AP ratio (and can go over 100% with enough AP). Range slightly reduced. (Might increase CD if we have to).

Crowstorm: Base damage lowered, AP ratio increased.

Base Stats: Pretty sizable increase. His base armor was abysmal to make up for drain - with these fixes, he can have more normal base stats.

* Why change Fiddlesticks?

The changes were really easy to do, and Fiddlesticks is not in a good spot right now (he's bad in serious games, but still can pubstomp well). These changes are to fix how feast-or-famine Fiddlesticks is right now (he either snowballs heavily or is worthless) while giving him more late-game damage scaling.

* What about junglesticks?

We're running some heavy jungle testing today to see if this is still possible. We expect speedier jungling with the Dark Wind changes, it's really level 1 golem we're going to look at. We'd like him to be a good jungler.

* Why not let drain stay 1:1 on the health gain?

Fiddles sustain from this is exceptionally high early, but letting this scale throughout the game lets us both make him less crazy sustain early (which is an important counter-balance to lane presence with the Dark Wind changes) and lets him actually drain much more effectively late game, where stuns are flying around a lot more and the move is riskier.

[Math_Mage]

So after an awesome game that I should've streamed, I finally got enough IP for Xin. In accordance with my new goal, I aim to buy all of team Demacia and become good with them. So far I have Garen, Lux, and Galio, all of which I am pretty good with. Now I ask on how I should build Xin so that I may become good with him as well. While I'm learning him, I'll be saving up to buy Jarvin.:smallcool:

Xin is really flexible. You'll need to experiment to find what works for you. 21/0/9, 9/21/0, 21/9/0...pretty much anything that isn't 21 in utility (because Xin doesn't really need to go down the utility tree) is good. Marks can be Apen or AS. Seals can be armor, dodge, or AS. Glyphs can be MR, CDR, or AS. Quints: Apen, MS, or...you guessed it. I usually run Ghost-Ignite for level 6 burst and teamfight mobility; of course, Exhaust wins lanes and Flash/Cleanse save your butt, so keep them in mind as well.

Starting item choices are DShield, Cloth + 5 pots, and Boots + 3 pots. Honestly, from there it's situational. So many items give Xin different kinds of excellent boosts that it's hard to lay out a core build. Wriggle's, Youmuu's, SotD, Stark's, Black Cleaver, Frozen Mallet, Randuin's Omen, Banshee's Veil, Atma's Impaler, Phantom Dancer, Bloodthirster, even IE and Triforce. It depends on what kind of farm you have when you go back, who you're teamed with, who you're up against...and I still haven't worked through the various possibilities in scores if not hundreds of Xin games. He benefits hugely from pretty much any stat you put on him, except AP.

Some basic guidelines are possible, though. Xin's priorities are:
1) Sticking to his opponent: Phage, Ghostblade, SotD. Movespeed, attack speed, and CDR help him accomplish this. A late Phantom Dancer also helps.
2) Sustainability/survivability: Wriggle's, Mallet, Omen/Veil. Lifesteal and armor/resists help him accomplish this.
3) Further damage output from there: Cleaver, Atma's, IE.

I feel like that's the appropriate priority set. Xin needs to be able to catch his opponent, not die to anyone trying to stop him, and only then does he need to worry about killing his opponent. Too, his abilities provide enough inherent damage output early game. To that end, it's a tough choice between Boots of Swiftness, Merc Treads, and Berserkers' Greaves; but you'll usually end up with Treads, because nothing sucks more than losing out on Battle Cry time because of CC.

Lane Xin is situationally godly. He doesn't beat other tanky DPS, but almost any squishy becomes food (with some exceptions like Anivia and LeBlanc). Skill EQWEER, and then it's your choice whether to max W or E first. Q gives you everything you really need (knock-up on a 10s cooldown) with 1 point, so leave it for last.

Jungle Xin got hit hard by last patch's nerfs. I'd say don't try it until next patch's buffs (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=676954). Xin will be an amazing jungler after that, calling it now. Probably skill WEWQ because the W passive won't go away while the ability is on cooldown, and attack speed is godly in the jungle.

Late game, you're a secondary initiator and mobile combatant. Use your E to get into the fight and to switch targets. W when you need the boost, Q when you need to CC someone, R when you catch enemies clumped up.

[Mtg_player_zach]

So uh, treeline singed game. Our rammus was disconnected for like the first 10 minutes of the match. Also, rammus called me a bad singed throughout the entirety of the time he was there. All whilst feeding unrelentlessly.

Yeah, Noob singed.

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac137/Mtg_Player_Zach_GitP/Treelinesinged.png?t=1303242268

[Joran]

Alistair isn't part of the tanky dps problem, he's part of the roaming problem. Eve is another example of this hero, but she's been an issue for longer, she just had a lull and is back now.


I included him just because as an Alistar player, it was very dispiriting to see him get relegated to "Hard to Place" in Elementz's tier list. After a bunch of meta changes and champion changes, he moved back up to picked in Ranked matches. It was fun to watch.

Same thing happened to Cho'gath and Singed.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Oh, Fiddlestick change previews as well:

I approve, I like fiddles, just not how bad he is.

[Neftren]

Most people are on the East Coast. I think Faulty is on the West Coast (of Canada) me and Wojo are in CST. Sirro, etc operate on EU time. We don't really have anyone in Asia (except me when I visit my family and when that happens I don't use mumble).

So basically we need 1 guy who's on a lot from the EU and then ... people in North America.

Do we ever have anyone connecting from Asia?

For EU, I'd suggest maybe, uhh, Sirro? Dallas?

[Dogmantra]

Maybe I'll be enough for the EU?

[toasty]

Do we ever have anyone connecting from Asia?

For EU, I'd suggest maybe, uhh, Sirro? Dallas?

No, we really don't. Like I said, me, sometimes, when I'm there, but that's very rare. At this rate I'm more likely to be in the EU sooner. :smalltongue:

[Faulty]

Then again common sense is a horrible term because it means acquired life experience and is not some universal logical underpinning of society. Hence the common sense rather than the sense. Also that advice is horrible because someone who makes poor decisions from an outsiders perspective often does not know if there decision will be poor or not so thinking about it at the time is a worthless endeavorer. However, it helps if somebody is helped by spending the time to think about their decisions.

You would be the one to give a super serious response to that. I love you foly. :smalltongue:

[Penguinizer]

I'm from the EU as well. I also occasionally drag my friend on mumble. Anyways, how do I play Sion when I'm being destroyed in lane? It just feels like I fall below a threshold and turn useless.

[efdf]

Shaella doesn't really have a point at all. Melee characters without gap closers are worthless. End of story. It doesn't matter if they're fighting Ashe or Caitlyn or Twitch or any ranged character. They don't need gap closers because Ashe exists, they need gap closers because range exists.

Tanky DPS being mobile is not a problem, it is a necessity. Tanky DPS are only a problem when they are tanky casters, because you only have to eat one slow and you get flash-Feasted then Cataclysmed for a good portion of your health, rather than getting auto attacked once before you flash over a wall and laugh.

[ZombyWoof]

I'd argue that Corki, Tristana, and Ezreal are less susceptible to assassinations in team fights, since they have an innate blink. Ashe's DPS is also not quite as good as Corki's (I think), but she's adequate and can poke.
Correct. Ashe has NO escape and actually pretty low DPS comparitively. Ez and MF way outscore her on that scale, and Tristana does as well.



What makes Ashe superb is that she can initiate, unlike any other ranged carry and has a mini-clairvoyance which helps her avoid bad situations like face-checking bushes and gaining some map control.
What makes Ashe superb:

3.5 second global stun on a 600 damage nuke
Great range poke + slow
Great slow
Bonus CV

[Silverraptor]

That game took far too long. The enemy built tank first, and was annoying as hell. Trundle and Cho'Gath build a GA as one of their first items :smallfurious:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1775/superlongashe.png

That was a ridiculous game. Mundo quickly became a "Creep Score" to us, where he was actually worth less than a minion.:smalltongue:

[Neftren]

Maybe I'll be enough for the EU?

Maybe. I mean, it doesn't hurt to have more, does it?

[Assassin89]

So I just reached level 30 after playing as Caitlyn. Normally I play as Amumu, but someone on my team said that the team needed an AD carry. I haven't played Caitlyn before, not to mention that the rune page I used has 6 magic penetration marks, 7 mana regen/5 seals, 8 cdr glyphs, and my quintessences were a magic resist and an ability power per level.
http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt323/Beckermana/LoL6.png
Note that each of my scores is a multiple of ⑨

[Flechair]

3.5 second global stun on a 600 damage nuke
Great range poke + slow
Great slow
Bonus CV

This is why I've been playing a lot of Ashe for my 5 man premades lately. She might not be as damaging as ez, but she tends to help the team more.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

If anyone fulfills the "AD Support" role that they made Caitlyn for, it's certainly Ashe.

I play support Ashe. Get way more assists than kills most of the time.

[Joran]

This is why I've been playing a lot of Ashe for my 5 man premades lately. She might not be as damaging as ez, but she tends to help the team more.

And a key arrow hit always makes me smile inside.


I play support Ashe. Get way more assists than kills most of the time.

I do too, but that's because I'm a very conservative player with Ashe. I sit back and poke with volleys until the team fight and rarely push hard for a kill. When laning, I mostly last hit, with some volleys for harass, but rarely go for the kill, unless the enemy is an idiot.

That said, I love the BFS change.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I'd be cool with that. Even though I personally don't think I'm cool enough for it. Sirro would be a better suggestion, but if you guys want me, I'd be up.

[ZombyWoof]

I don't lane passively with Ashe. When I play Ashe I'm hyper aggressive, that first shot and volley is going IN YOUR FACE and the key to laning with Ashe I find is to keep that pressure up. If they turn out to be able to return it, then back off... but being aggro with Ashe is good for the exact same reasons Caw-Blade is dominant in MTG:

I know you have the late game, but the best defense is a good offense. Push them off of you and make them the ones scrambling to avoid being zoned is the easiest and best way to not get zoned yourself. Even if the matchup doesn't seem good, push them as hard as you can. It's likely they'll get scared and paranoid, especially if you keep them at half health. "Is nocturne going to pop out of nowhere?" "Oh crap where is Alistair?" "Bot mia? Crap I better run to my tower."

Also i tried Bloodrazor on Shen. I tentatively like it over Atma's simply because of that sweet, sweet attack speed increase. That's going to go really well with red buff! Also I'm thinking my last item will be Frozen Mallet to bring my HP up to 3500 with 190 armor and 180 magic resist (at least against teams where Banshee's Veil isn't too important... against them I'll just get the bveil).

So far the build is: Merc's, Sunfire, FoN, Bloodrazor, Frozen Mallet.

it can 1v1 vs pretty much anyone at any point after the sunfire XD

[Flechair]

I don't lane passively with Ashe. When I play Ashe I'm hyper aggressive, that first shot and volley is going IN YOUR FACE and the key to laning with Ashe I find is to keep that pressure up. If they turn out to be able to return it, then back off... but being aggro with Ashe is good for the exact same reasons Caw-Blade is dominant in MTG:

I know you have the late game, but the best defense is a good offense. Push them off of you and make them the ones scrambling to avoid being zoned is the easiest and best way to not get zoned yourself. Even if the matchup doesn't seem good, push them as hard as you can. It's likely they'll get scared and paranoid, especially if you keep them at half health. "Is nocturne going to pop out of nowhere?" "Oh crap where is Alistair?" "Bot mia? Crap I better run to my tower."

See, I wish I were better at playing Ashe like that, because I tend to be passive early game, I'm mainly going for last hits. I mean, I'll attack someone if they are within range, but I'm not going to chase out of my way to get them. I'm mainly try to farm out a BF sword as fast as possible to make my auto attacks feel like they do something--but then again, I'm not a good Ashe. I've just started playing her and I'm not comfortable zoning a nuke.

[Arbitrarity]

Push? Faugh. ZONE. I had a Kassadin a few games ago. Kass is WEAK early, and this one seemed to be particularly wimpy. So I stood in the middle of the creeps, threw out volleys whenever he got near, and if he tried to get closer, I chased him down with Frost Arrow autoattacks until he was under his tower again. I forced him back twice before I hit 7, and he stayed level 5 until he finally got a 3 man gank up from bottom. He never caught up in last hits, and stayed forever underfarmed. They want a last hit? Make them PAY for it.
Same tactics work on Veigar, Vlad, and other weak laners without spammable harass. Once they get spammable harass, however, you do need to be a bit more cautious, and take advantage of volley more. You can't trade harass with Vlad, unless you have a major advantage in health.
Bad Vlad's are particularly funny here, since they'll just drop Transfusion, pool to dive you, then try to follow up. Dropping an arrow on their faces immediately after that pool is a very effective way to get them to run, which is their doom, since you're, y'know, Ashe.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

I usually use Volley to last hit -and- harass. Never one or the other. And once I get Frost Shot, I almost always follow up a Volley hit with an AA or two, since people panic when they get slowed.

For the most part, though, I don't play aggressively, because chasing people around is the best way I've found to get killed as Ashe.

[Eldariel]

Also i tried Bloodrazor on Shen. I tentatively like it over Atma's simply because of that sweet, sweet attack speed increase. That's going to go really well with red buff! Also I'm thinking my last item will be Frozen Mallet to bring my HP up to 3500 with 190 armor and 180 magic resist (at least against teams where Banshee's Veil isn't too important... against them I'll just get the bveil).

So far the build is: Merc's, Sunfire, FoN, Bloodrazor, Frozen Mallet.

it can 1v1 vs pretty much anyone at any point after the sunfire XD

Don't plan builds that far. Really, your tank build should be malleable for each game, changing as required by the enemy team. Most of the tanky damage items are good on Shen; Wit's End, Atma's, Hexdrinker all have their roles. It all depends on what resists and damage you need. I consider Sunfire, Mercs and Negatron Cloak core on him. I also really like Aegis on him, and I still consider Randuin's ok even with all the nerfs (definitely worse, though). Whether I get Banshee, FoN or something more offensive tho already depends on the opposing team

Of course, the determining factor on which you should get is always the opposing team. Fact is that you need some damage items on Shen; otherwise you're gonna be a major turtle with finished builds with one taunt and ult worth of contribution to each fight. Bloodrazor is strictly speaking the most efficient of the bunch but if enemy is extremely heavily magic resistant, you can just go Atma's to partially circumvent that.

I also occasionally get Voidstaff against a particularly magic-resistant enemy team; Aegis/Mercs/Sunfire/Banshee/Bloodrazor/Voidstaff tends to be quite respectable defensively (though bit soft to magic damage at only 175 MR with Masteries + Runes; you still get more effective HP out of Banshee than FoN tho so I generally prefer that especially with the passive in mind - that said, FoN regen is actually considerable at Tank HPs amounting to few hundred extra HPs over fights and full regen between fights so YMMV). Between Razor, Sunfire, Ki Strike and Vorpal Blade, you actually deal considerable amounts of magic damage so it can work out especially against HP tankies (Singed, Mundo, Cho, etc.) thinking MR will save them. And the 70 random AP does add to Vorpal, Stand United and Feint so it's not entirely wasted; not your first choice, to be sure, but it helps.

[toasty]

Hey... so TF. I decided I wanted to learn him today and just played 4 games (3 of which were serious, one was all revive teleport... :smallbiggrin:). I need suggestions.

Sirro suggested going AP/Tanky, which I would feel means like getting a fast Hourglass and then probably Abysmal and Lichbane. I feel that's a good idea, though I've been experimenting with AD. I feel that AD is not as good for pushing because Wild Cards really are great for clearing creeps, though maybe getting a late Starks for Attack speed would be a good idea.

@Shen: the only problem with Aegis is Shen likes to backdoor... other than that, its a great item. Sunfires is amazing on Shen. Sunfires+FoN is a really strong core, though you can really build whatever you want. I still feel that HoG is a good item on most tanks/supports, not necessarily 2-3 like you used to be able to do, but just 1 for the extra gold. If you think about it, its a free item, so why not?

[Dogmantra]

I use the build I've seen Jiji use for AP TF:
Boots start + 3 health potions/Doran's Ring based on matchup
2 x Doran's Ring (sometimes a Philosopher's Stone too, if I'm taking harrass)
Sheen
You should probably have nicer boots by now. I like Swiftness
Hat
Lich Bane
Hourglass
Situational.

While Hourglass is awesome, I don't like it as a first rush because yes you can do bullstupid escapes with it, but you don't get that much damage.

[TechnOkami]

I approve, I like fiddles, just not how bad he is.

Likewise. If only it would come sooner.

[Eldariel]

@Shen: the only problem with Aegis is Shen likes to backdoor... other than that, its a great item. Sunfires is amazing on Shen. Sunfires+FoN is a really strong core, though you can really build whatever you want. I still feel that HoG is a good item on most tanks/supports, not necessarily 2-3 like you used to be able to do, but just 1 for the extra gold. If you think about it, its a free item, so why not?

Well, his backdooring generally still involves him in all teamfights with his ults; heck, that's the whole reason he BDs, 'cause he can do that without missing chances to fight. So it's not that big an issue, really.

[ZombyWoof]

Yo Woof, I herd u liek a challange, so we DC'd your vlad in ranked so you can own while you own.

14-1-11 in a 4v5 after Akali and Mundo had been fed bot (who went 0-8 in lane).

VICTORY!

YEEEEEEEEAAAAAHH BOOOIIIIIIIII

P.S. I heard Udyr sucks vs Ashe. When you see your opponent windmill slam Ashe, I'd try avoiding picking champs like that.

[Volatar]

Don't you wish we had this button?

http://i.imgur.com/X5NEO.png

Yes, I did steal this from Reddit.

[Misery Esquire]

Don't you wish we had this button?

http://i.imgur.com/X5NEO.png

Yes, I did steal this from Reddit.

...Wouldn't all the bad players press the "Good Teammates" thing, because they all think they're good?

...Just saying. >_>

[toasty]

...Wouldn't all the bad players press the "Good Teammates" thing, because they all think they're good?

...Just saying. >_>

The button can only be seen by good players.

[Volatar]

...Wouldn't all the bad players press the "Good Teammates" thing, because they all think they're good?

...Just saying. >_>

Way to miss the joke :smallsigh:

[Silverraptor]

I have a question for everyone that I need answering. How good of a player do you guys think I am? Am I in the Gitp Top tier, Middle tier, or Bottom tier of the other playgrounders? The reason why I ask is I need to figure out whether I really am good compared to most of the other playgrounders, or whether the pubby's are really just that bad.

[toasty]

I have a question for everyone that I need answering. How good of a player do you guys think I am? Am I in the Gitp Top tier, Middle tier, or Bottom tier of the other playgrounders? The reason why I ask is I need to figure out whether I really am good compared to most of the other playgrounders, or whether the pubby's are really just that bad.

You're not bad. I feel that you're not like a top tier player here, but I also feel that I don't play with a wide variety of people here. Another thing is I haven't seen you play a lot of different heroes and don't really know what you are best at.

Another thing is that I feel the biggest problem with pubbies is not that they are bad, but that they're bad at working as a team. On top of that, working as a team is super hard. Like, you have to be willing to take the flak for your mistakes and you have to know when to be aggressive with your suggestions and when to shut up and let your teammates do what they are doing. Right now me, Faulty and Sirro have been playing a lot of games together and we're getting better at working together because we're playing more. I feel like 75% of the problem with pub games, especially in normal queue, is that people play what they want and do what they want instead of playing as a team.

I mean, sure, people don't understand how the game works as well. People don't realize that Warwick can't gank non-stop and that you should probably always have a support with a CV. Etc, etc. But I really feel like if 90% of my solo queue games were games where my team would communicate like we were best friends playing in a LAN center like I did during dota with my friends back home then I would be at a much high elo.

Edit: Another thing I feel that is really key to this game is being versitile. Like for instance I have a lot of rune pages and 30 champions. I can only play maybe 15 really well, but I can play them. I'm working on getting better with more of them as well. I don't know how versatile you are. In my mind an average player who can play 2-3 champs in each role is better than a guy who can play 5 carries.

[Raistlin1040]

And on the note of poor teamwork. I was just on a team where I as Zilean had CV, and our Ryze also had CV. The other team had no CV. We should have had better map awareness, but despite me dropping CV where the other team was, half the time I was ignored. We kill 3 of them, including their best damage dealers, and then I say we should baron. Everyone ignores me. I ping Baron and stand in the brush. Tryndamere comes with me but no one else does. The other team starts coming in. I say there's three of them and five of us, if the other three come out of mid, we'll kill them. No one listens. Finally, when the other two of them show up, my teammates committ halfheartedly and then run as soon as they've been hit by anything, leaving Tryndamere and I to get killed.

How hard is it to follow directions about objectives? I mean simple stuff like "They're all dead or back. Let's Baron." or "Swain is dead and the rest are all bot. Let's take down top." or "My BV popped Ashe's arrow, let's gank her before it comes back up."

[Astrella]

I have a question for everyone that I need answering. How good of a player do you guys think I am? Am I in the Gitp Top tier, Middle tier, or Bottom tier of the other playgrounders? The reason why I ask is I need to figure out whether I really am good compared to most of the other playgrounders, or whether the pubby's are really just that bad.

Hmm, yes, let's just make a whole list of the GitP people ranked by skill, that won't cause any drama at all. :smalltongue:

I'd come up with a joke Tier List, but I'm lazy right now. :smallamused:

[Hyudra]

As much as that is when people just don't communicate before the round starts.

Round starts:
Me: Who in which lane?
Me: What champ would you prefer me to play, of Poppy, Alistar, Eve, Cassiopeia, Olaf, Zilean or any of the free champs?
Everyone else says nothing.
Match starts, cue 2 minutes of Leblanc and Caitlyn fighting over who gets to be mid, ultimately boiling down to them both being mid and me being solo top (I didn't mind hugely, but they didn't do fantastically either).

[toasty]

Hmm, yes, let's just make a whole list of the GitP people ranked by skill, that won't cause any drama at all. :smalltongue:

I'd come up with a joke Tier List, but I'm lazy right now. :smallamused:

Tier 1: Me
Tier 2: Sirro, Wojo, Arb, Faulty, Zach
Tier 3: Most other people
Tier 4 (Trash Tier): Silver Raptor.

:smalltongue:

[Neftren]

I have a question for everyone that I need answering. How good of a player do you guys think I am? Am I in the Gitp Top tier, Middle tier, or Bottom tier of the other playgrounders? The reason why I ask is I need to figure out whether I really am good compared to most of the other playgrounders, or whether the pubby's are really just that bad.

I asked this question a while back and realized how silly it was to ask "Who is ranked above who?" Considering that this is not only a team game involving four other people, and that many champions tend to just have prettier scores than others, despite them not actually having as much combat value, it's just really hard to pin down I think.


I think the most fair mechanism of determining player skill is really just to have everyone play solo queue ranked, and after say, 20-30 games or so, ranking will roughly correlate to your skill bracket. Granted even this is a flawed system as there's some element of luck involved (I have a friend who I know I'm better at on some champions, and he somehow made it to 1559 ranking, when I know that I'm probably nowhere near even the 1300 ELO bracket). If anything, I'm probably sub-1200 given my appalling normal queue win/loss ratio.

[ZombyWoof]

About 15 minutes into the game, Nasus says, "Oh crap I think there's a tornado coming." About 15 seconds later, "Yeah, I have to go." He disconnects. At this point our team turns God-Mode on, and we just go from one end of the map to the other killing everything in our way. The pinnacle was when we engaged a 4v5 teamfight AT THEIR TURRET and 5-0'd them XD

After the game they were complaining about their 3-14 TF. Our Nocturne simply replied, "Yeah, well, it was 6v6. We had TF on our team, you had Janna on your team. She took out Nasus with a tornado."

I hope the guy's ok and I wish I could message him to let him know we won that for him!

[Zeful]

I'm having a problem with the new mumble server. I tried to connect and it gave me a password prompt. I'm currently running under the name "Moriarty".

The only thing that might be different is that I've created a certificate using the certificate wizard, which I didn't do for other servers.

Any help?

[Volatar]

My tier list question:

Am I a noob feeder scrub who should uninstall and go back to farmville?


I'm having a problem with the new mumble server. I tried to connect and it gave me a password prompt. I'm currently running under the name "Moriarty".

The only thing that might be different is that I've created a certificate using the certificate wizard, which I didn't do for other servers.

Any help?

You probably have a number wrong in the port number.

[Silverraptor]

I don't want to know who I'm better than any other particular person, just how decent am I of a player when I play with you guys that you've noticed. Like, on a scale of 1 to 10.

[ZombyWoof]

I rate you as an E.

[Zeful]

You probably have a number wrong in the port number.

Not possible, I'm currently on the server. I just can't log in as "Zeful" and instead have to login under a non-registered name (in this case Moriarty).

[Winthur]

Hmm, yes, let's just make a whole list of the GitP people ranked by skill, that won't cause any drama at all. :smalltongue:

I'd come up with a joke Tier List, but I'm lazy right now. :smallamused:

I'm God (of fail) Tier in the joke Tier Jungle List. :smallamused:

(I'd wish, it's just that I possibly can't hold my own as a laner champion. I play too much jungle, and I'm very reluctant to take solo lanes, as I don't like the pressure lying on you not having a lane partner.)

EDIT: No, really, the only reason I tend to do well in the jungle is that nobody cares about counterjungling on my ELO and some people are really bad at this game. I'd never get a victory if every lane bothered about warding at least the bush near their lane. Especially as Shaco. This game seems so simple when you look at it like this.

It's like I get every single one of my wins on a silver plate.

[Silverraptor]

I rate you as an E.

Meaning?:smallconfused:

[Winthur]

E is for Silverraptor, he fights using stealthor.

[Silverraptor]

E is for Silverraptor, he fights using stealthor.

God, that was terrible.:smalltongue:

[Volatar]

Not possible, I'm currently on the server. I just can't log in as "Zeful" and instead have to login under a non-registered name (in this case Moriarty).

Ah, your messing with the certificate stuff broke your old name registration with the server. Not sure if Djinn can fix that or not, but I can assure you he is the one you need to talk to.

[Dienekes]

My tier list question:

Am I a noob feeder scrub who should uninstall and go back to farmville?

In all fairness, I've been called that when I had the most kills and buildings destroyed on my team.

[Bliss Authority]

I just had the single best Singed game of my entire life. The enemy team surrendered after the worst Zilean in the world died from chasing me, while I was expelling delicious purple clouds, three times in a row.

People actually asked me if I was smurfing (I'm level 16). I'm not.

Interestingly enough, I forgot to set to my tank runes that game and used my Caster runepage.

[Inhuman Bot]

I'm God (of fail) Tier in the joke Tier Jungle List. :smallamused:

You are literally the worst jungle guard.

[ZombyWoof]

*snicker* we just won a ranked game where I was 2/3/33 as Janna. Shaco built 3 stark's :smallbiggrin:

[Todasmile]

So, I picked up Olaf a while back and have jungled with him every single game I played since then.

It seems to work. I get a decent amount of kills, and not TOO many deaths. I think. I hope.

One thing that I have problems with is starting at Blue. While I can do Wraiths (Smite big)->Wolves-> Golems (Smite one)-> Wraiths->Wolves->Back->Blue->Red fairly easily, it feels like I could be better if I could only figure out how to go Blue, Wolves, Wraiths, Red, Golems, Gank.

Well, it's possible. The problem is that it requires a Fortitude Elixer and five pots, and that I get within one hit of death on Blue. By the time I'm ready for the Gank stage, I'm too low on HP to do anything other than go back to base, which I feel is hurting my actual ganking ability.

I'm not even level 20 yet, and I've basically just been using level one Armor seals, Armor Penetration marks, and CDR glyphs. I think my quintessence is CDR.

Basically, is this going to get easier to do without nearly dying the higher level I get? Does it provide any significant advantage over simply buying Cloth, five pots, and killing neutral minions until I can afford Madred's?

I've been doing fine killing-wise, and I can get ganks done with a bit of work, but I'm wondering if there's anything I could be doing better. I never kill Dragon, which is something I'm really aiming to do, since it provides so much exp and gold in the early game.

I'm asking too many questions. Um.

SO YI, EH? MAN, I FOUGHT A JERK YI ONCE.

YEAH.

[toasty]

Basically, is this going to get easier to do without nearly dying the higher level I get? Does it provide any significant advantage over simply buying Cloth, five pots, and killing neutral minions until I can afford Madred's?

Full Jungle Runeset (attack speed+armor+armor pen+CDR) at lvl 30 makes it a lot easier to jungle olaf. Though you are still pretty low on your first run through.

[ZombyWoof]

Full Jungle Runeset (attack speed+armor+armor pen+CDR) at lvl 30 makes it a lot easier to jungle olaf. Though you are still pretty low on your first run through.
Full runeset + full masteries makes the game VERY different. When I play on my smurf as Ashe or Annie I can't do half the stuff I normally do. You don't really notice it until it's gone, but it makes a HUGE difference.

[Arbitrarity]

With standard (low cost) runeset, you should be ok. Flat armor yellows, armor pen reds, and blues/quints of choice (or none) are certainly enough to easily do a standard route at 30. And that's only 5500 IP or so.

[Inhuman Bot]

Full runeset + full masteries makes the game VERY different. When I play on my smurf as Ashe or Annie I can't do half the stuff I normally do. You don't really notice it until it's gone, but it makes a HUGE difference.

I do fine without any useful runes beyond -15% time spent dead, which I only run as Karthus. :smalltongue:

[Hyudra]

Full runeset + full masteries makes the game VERY different. When I play on my smurf as Ashe or Annie I can't do half the stuff I normally do. You don't really notice it until it's gone, but it makes a HUGE difference.

I agree, though I'm only level 20 - I changed out my tier 1 runes for tier 3s when I hit 20 and the difference was immediate and noticeable.

[Flechair]

One thing that I have problems with is starting at Blue.

Stonewall doesn't even start at Blue. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXngwdqeElw)


Basically, is this going to get easier to do without nearly dying the higher level I get? Does it provide any significant advantage over simply buying Cloth, five pots, and killing neutral minions until I can afford Madred's? It does get easier, in the sense that you're going to have near full HP, and can gank earlier.

Also, jerks in LoL are unavoidable. I've tended to greet trash talking with the line "Dude, did you know? Zilean is hella bomb." lately. People don't tend to touch that level of idiocy.

[Math_Mage]

I use the build I've seen Jiji use for AP TF:
Boots start + 3 health potions/Doran's Ring based on matchup
2 x Doran's Ring (sometimes a Philosopher's Stone too, if I'm taking harrass)
Sheen
You should probably have nicer boots by now. I like Swiftness
Hat
Lich Bane
Hourglass
Situational.

While Hourglass is awesome, I don't like it as a first rush because yes you can do bullstupid escapes with it, but you don't get that much damage.

Speaking of jiji's TF, I know he goes SotD rush when playing AD TF, but I don't remember what comes after that.


So, I picked up Olaf a while back and have jungled with him every single game I played since then.

It seems to work. I get a decent amount of kills, and not TOO many deaths. I think. I hope.

One thing that I have problems with is starting at Blue. While I can do Wraiths (Smite big)->Wolves-> Golems (Smite one)-> Wraiths->Wolves->Back->Blue->Red fairly easily, it feels like I could be better if I could only figure out how to go Blue, Wolves, Wraiths, Red, Golems, Gank.

Well, it's possible. The problem is that it requires a Fortitude Elixer and five pots, and that I get within one hit of death on Blue. By the time I'm ready for the Gank stage, I'm too low on HP to do anything other than go back to base, which I feel is hurting my actual ganking ability.

I'm not even level 20 yet, and I've basically just been using level one Armor seals, Armor Penetration marks, and CDR glyphs. I think my quintessence is CDR.

Basically, is this going to get easier to do without nearly dying the higher level I get? Does it provide any significant advantage over simply buying Cloth, five pots, and killing neutral minions until I can afford Madred's?

I've been doing fine killing-wise, and I can get ganks done with a bit of work, but I'm wondering if there's anything I could be doing better. I never kill Dragon, which is something I'm really aiming to do, since it provides so much exp and gold in the early game.

I'm asking too many questions. Um.

SO YI, EH? MAN, I FOUGHT A JERK YI ONCE.

YEAH.

-Olaf shouldn't start at blue without help. One might even say, Olaf shouldn't plan to start at blue, period. He doesn't need it, and his natural sustained routes don't start there. Blue first is a ganking jungler's route. I'd rather see Olaf either go golems-wraiths-wolves-Blue or wraiths-wolves-golems-back-Blue.
-Dragon is something you kill if you have the advantage but can't push a tower. So maybe you ganked bot lane and got a kill, but the other guy's too high HP to push his tower down; so take your three (and grab mid if you can) and do dragon. There are other occasions when you can do dragon, but those are the obvious ones.
-Remember to pick up your axe, and to Smite when Vicious Strikes is up. Just making sure you know those tricks.
-Yes, having a proper runeset is going to help enormously.

[TechnOkami]

I've... been playing horribly as of late. Just needed to get that out of my system.

[Flechair]

I don't know what to think about him right now, Jax is really great late game, and I'm rather good at playing him to get fed. The sad thing is that he's rather bad without an assist mid game.

Really, I wish he could jungle better. I really love playing him, and if he's so bad at laning, why not jungle? It's too bad he's solely based on dodge chance. :smallsigh:

[Adumbration]

Is there any champ left that can do Dragon solo at level 4 with both buffs?

[Spinoza]

I'm God (of fail) Tier in the joke Tier Jungle List. :smallamused:

(I'd wish, it's just that I possibly can't hold my own as a laner champion. I play too much jungle, and I'm very reluctant to take solo lanes, as I don't like the pressure lying on you not having a lane partner.)

EDIT: No, really, the only reason I tend to do well in the jungle is that nobody cares about counterjungling on my ELO and some people are really bad at this game. I'd never get a victory if every lane bothered about warding at least the bush near their lane. Especially as Shaco. This game seems so simple when you look at it like this.

It's like I get every single one of my wins on a silver plate.

Maybe its just me but in pick up games jungling doesn't seem to work very well. The problem is that the 2 vs 1 lane almost always results in a few deaths for the extra solo lane nullifying the advantage of jungling.

[term1nally s1ck]

Is there any champ left that can do Dragon solo at level 4 with both buffs?

Warwick still can IIRC, though I may be wrong about that one, Nunu easily can, and Fiddle is fiddle and can ALWAYS dragon.

[Faulty]

Tier 1: Me
Tier 2: Sirro, Wojo, Arb, Faulty, Zach
Tier 3: Most other people
Tier 4 (Trash Tier): Silver Raptor.

:smalltongue:

You wish, sucker. :smallwink:

[Makensha]

The Tier List of Awesome (Updated! April 20, 2011)

Tier 1: Alistar, Katarina, Nunu, Ryze

Tier 2: Amumu, Ezreal, Galio, Irelia, Jax, Kassadin, Kennen, Lux, Malzahar, Nasus, Poppy, NuRyze, Soraka, Veigar

Tier 3: Akali, Blitzcrank, Caitlyn, Fiddlesticks, Karma, Karthus, Kayle, Malphite, Mordekaiser, Nocturne, Pantheon, Plant King, Shen, Singed, Swain, Tristana, Trundle, Udyr, Vladimir

Tier 4: Ashe, Brand, Cassiopeia, Gangplank, Garen, Gragas, Jarvan, Kog'Maw, Maokai, Miss Fortune, Morgana, Rammus, Sion, Sivir, Sona, Taric, Twisted Fate, Twitch, Urgot, Warwick, Xin Zhao

Trash Tier: Anivia, Cho'Gath, Corki, Evelynn, Heimerdinger, Janna, Leblanc, Master Yi, Nidalee Renekton, Shaco, Teemo, Tryndamere

Annie Tier: Annie, Dr. Mundo, Lee Sin, Olaf, Zilean

[Winthur]

Stonewall doesn't even start at Blue. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXngwdqeElw)


He does. A route labeled "Superior" doesn't mean he uses it every time, and it's kind of a misleading name to be honest. It simply utilizes respawn timers a bit better so you hit level 6 faster. A normal Blue->Wolves->Wraiths->Red->Golems route is called "Aggressive" (you gank with double buff) in his book, and it's explained in one of his more recent videos. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO3074eazOE&feature=channel_video_title)

TheOddOne in his Olaf guide also starts at blue and works his way down, so make of that what you will.


You are literally the worst jungle guard.

You have no map awareness and you play like a dairy farmer.

[faith]

I'd like to apologize to everyone who had a Teemo disconnect on them yesterday. :(
apparently my computer doesn't have a survival instinct to tell me when its about to die when im in a game :smallsigh:
so once again, sorry. we should have won.

[St. Viers]

So I just had a TT game w/ pubbies, where our team comp was:

Morde, Panth, Singed. I can't believe it took us so long to win...

[Neftren]

Okay guys, so Garen is free this week, and my friend has challenged me to go positive K/D my first game as him. If I pull it off, he'll give me $5 in cash. Who wants to help me win? :smallbiggrin: Okay so first, I'm thinking I'll need to learn how to play Garen and how to build him. I am allowed to play a custom or two just get to get used to his moves. Okay second, who wants to stack smurfs to make sure that not only do I finish positive K/D, I crush the enemy team so overwhelmingly that I can disprove his disbelief in the 'Spin to Win' theory?

[Eldariel]

Okay guys, so Garen is free this week, and my friend has challenged me to go positive K/D my first game as him. If I pull it off, he'll give me $5 in cash. Who wants to help me win? :smallbiggrin: Okay so first, I'm thinking I'll need to learn how to play Garen and how to build him. I am allowed to play a custom or two just get to get used to his moves. Okay second, who wants to stack smurfs to make sure that not only do I finish positive K/D, I crush the enemy team so overwhelmingly that I can disprove his disbelief in the 'Spin to Win' theory?

How to play Garen:
1) Find a brush.
2) Squishy nearby: silence (plus speed), spin, (ult)
3) You taking damage? DEMACIA!
4) Repeat ad nauseam.

[Volatar]

Okay guys, so Garen is free this week, and my friend has challenged me to go positive K/D my first game as him. If I pull it off, he'll give me $5 in cash. Who wants to help me win? :smallbiggrin: Okay so first, I'm thinking I'll need to learn how to play Garen and how to build him. I am allowed to play a custom or two just get to get used to his moves. Okay second, who wants to stack smurfs to make sure that not only do I finish positive K/D, I crush the enemy team so overwhelmingly that I can disprove his disbelief in the 'Spin to Win' theory?

I'd love to snuff with you :)

SMURF, not snuff. Freaking iPod spellcheck.

[Silverraptor]

Okay guys, so Garen is free this week, and my friend has challenged me to go positive K/D my first game as him. If I pull it off, he'll give me $5 in cash. Who wants to help me win? :smallbiggrin: Okay so first, I'm thinking I'll need to learn how to play Garen and how to build him. I am allowed to play a custom or two just get to get used to his moves. Okay second, who wants to stack smurfs to make sure that not only do I finish positive K/D, I crush the enemy team so overwhelmingly that I can disprove his disbelief in the 'Spin to Win' theory?

You should have come straight to me. Here's how I play Garen.

-Armor Pen./Crit. chance marks, dodge seals, CDR Glyphs, CDR/Move/HP Quints.
-8/18/4 masteries
-Spells: Exhaust/Ghost
-Skill order: EQWEER then R>E>Q>W

Items:
-Doran's Shield
-Merc Treads
-Sunfire
-Frozen Mallet
-Atma's
-Infinity's Edge
-Guardian Angel
-Sell Guardian whenever its effect on cooldown for any appropriate tank item or damage item.

Pretty much, you do just hide in a bush and have you passive heal you to full health. Then it the opponent tries to push out too far, Q to him and the spin to win, and then fall back once he gets back into tower range. If you think you can kill them, then do it.

[Volatar]

If only Lux was free :smallfrown:

Lux and Garen sitting in a bush, ay-arr-gee-you-eye-en-gee

First comes snare

Then comes silence

Then comes a Garen in a Sunfire Cape

[toasty]

So apparently Maokai is a good roamer? Can someone explain. As the guy who plays Alistair sometimes I'd like to know more.

Also: I bought Trundle last night because he's apparently a really, really good jungler so I want to learn him. Suggestions? Build? I mean, besides you know, Wriggles.

[Penguinizer]

Singed is so much fun. Ghost+Ult makes you into an unstoppable freighttrain of poisonous rage. It's so much fun just running at people and killing them.

[term1nally s1ck]

So apparently Maokai is a good roamer? Can someone explain. As the guy who plays Alistair sometimes I'd like to know more.

Also: I bought Trundle last night because he's apparently a really, really good jungler so I want to learn him. Suggestions? Build? I mean, besides you know, Wriggles.

Snare+knockback+slow is nasty ganking powers. And saplings to mess with enemy jungler is lulzy.

Trundle should go, IIRC, wriggles and triforce then tanky gear.

[Volatar]

New KDH song: Hey Karthus, Press R! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8egkmEDWrmE)

[Nargan]

So apparently Maokai is a good roamer? Can someone explain. As the guy who plays Alistair sometimes I'd like to know more.

Also: I bought Trundle last night because he's apparently a really, really good jungler so I want to learn him. Suggestions? Build? I mean, besides you know, Wriggles.

Rush Mallet, you need the slow for ganks, I don't care about your red buff. Trundle needs a second club to club things better. 2x the clubbing= 5x the awesome. Wriggles first ofc, and boots. The rest, you should get depending on the enemy team, which I'm sure you know what to do by now. Pretty much any runes that aren't magic ones will work with him. I use (not recommending, but they work) AD reds, Armor yellows, Health blues, health quints.

[toasty]

Rush Mallet, you need the slow for ganks, I don't care about your red buff. Trundle needs a second club to club things better. 2x the clubbing= 5x the awesome. Wriggles first ofc, and boots. The rest, you should get depending on the enemy team, which I'm sure you know what to do by now. Pretty much any runes that aren't magic ones will work with him. I use (not recommending, but they work) AD reds, Armor yellows, Health blues, health quints.

Doesn't your spell combo mean you don't really need a slow? I'd probably use my jungle sheet which is attack speed red, armor pen quints, armor yellows and mr/level blues

[Faulty]

New KDH song: Hey Karthus, Press R! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8egkmEDWrmE)

That is awesome.

[Dogmantra]

Doesn't your spell combo mean you don't really need a slow? I'd probably use my jungle sheet which is attack speed red, armor pen quints, armor yellows and mr/level blues

Nah, Mallet's a lot more reliable since the Pillar of Filth is AoE dependent. Plus if they have a decent chunk of physical, you can get an Atma's for more damage AND defense.

[term1nally s1ck]

I much prefer triforce for the slow, FM is kind of weak for the cost, and triforce is a lot more damage on top of the slow and speed boost.

[Inhuman Bot]

You have no map awareness and you play like a dairy farmer.

This is highly conveniant due to your playstyle having roughly the grace and skill of a cow.



Also: I bought Trundle last night because he's apparently a really, really good jungler so I want to learn him. Suggestions? Build? I mean, besides you know, Wriggles.

FM is good for about 3 characters. Trundle is one. It's pretty much core for him.

[Hyudra]

This is highly conveniant due to your playstyle having roughly the grace and skill of a cow.

FM is good for about 3 characters. Trundle is one. It's pretty much core for him.

I'm guessing Olaf is another. Who's the third?

[Draken]

My guess is the third is Mundo.

[term1nally s1ck]

Xin, iirc.

[Nargan]

I'd add jarvan onto the FM list. His in-build slow+cataclysm usually isn't enough even 1v1.

[Winthur]

This is highly conveniant due to your playstyle having roughly the grace and skill of a cow.

The usual stats you manage to achieve in a game would cause even boars and their ancestors to feel sick.

Also, does anybody here play Cho'Gath and can give me protips? Tank or AP should he be?

[Silverraptor]

Also, does anybody here play Cho'Gath and can give me protips? Tank or AP should he be?

Phantom Dancer Cho'gath, all the way!:smallcool:

[term1nally s1ck]

Tank. Rush catalyst and boots 1 for laning, take 1 level in spikes at 2nd for last-hitting, max rupture before silence before spikes, dominate the crap out of your lane using passive to full effect, and use feast EVERY cooldown on the nearest minion unless you have 6 stacks or are in or about to be in a fight.

Banshees, Mercs, Frozen Heart are usually core against a mixed damage team. Rest depends on enemy comp.

You do NOT charge in to kill the enemy carry, as much fun as that may be. You sit in front of your carries, and scare anyone who wants to touch them away with nasty burst and CC, and let them just dps down everything on the enemy team.

[Inhuman Bot]

I'd add jarvan onto the FM list. His in-build slow+cataclysm usually isn't enough even 1v1.

Yes it is.

[toasty]

Xin, iirc.

Guardsman Bob disagrees. Tanky+DPS mundo probably likes Frozen Mallet as his last item. Warmogs, Starks, Atmas, Frozen Mallet.

[Math_Mage]

Snare+knockback+slow is nasty ganking powers. And saplings to mess with enemy jungler is lulzy.

Trundle should go, IIRC, wriggles and triforce then tanky gear.

To elaborate...or not (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=239).


Rush Mallet, you need the slow for ganks, I don't care about your red buff. Trundle needs a second club to club things better. 2x the clubbing= 5x the awesome. Wriggles first ofc, and boots. The rest, you should get depending on the enemy team, which I'm sure you know what to do by now. Pretty much any runes that aren't magic ones will work with him. I use (not recommending, but they work) AD reds, Armor yellows, Health blues, health quints.

There's no champion in the game that should rush a Mallet. Even Olaf gets Wriggle's first.

[term1nally s1ck]

Oh, I'd never touch FM on anyone, tbh. I just recall seeing it a lot on him to let him stick to targets even easier.

And Mundo? Why does MUNDO need a permaslow? He has cleavers!

Personally, I'd be looking at getting CDR on a dps mundo. Moar ultis. MOAR.

Mogs, Atmas, Mercs, Visage, Ghostblade, and Banshees or FoN.

[ZombyWoof]

Warwick still can IIRC, though I may be wrong about that one, Nunu easily can, and Fiddle is fiddle and can ALWAYS dragon.
I believe WW cannot. That's just hearsay though, I think Nunu and Fiddle are the only two early-dragon-junglers. Maybe Heimer, but Heimerdinger is weird.

[Dogmantra]

I rush mallet on ashe so her autoattacks slow

[Math_Mage]

Guardsman Bob disagrees. Tanky+DPS mundo probably likes Frozen Mallet as his last item. Warmogs, Starks, Atmas, Frozen Mallet.

I feel like the best tool for Xin to stick to his opponents is attack speed. I could see Mallet come in after his first couple core items, though.


I believe WW cannot. That's just hearsay though, I think Nunu and Fiddle are the only two early-dragon-junglers. Maybe Heimer, but Heimerdinger is weird.

I remember hearing some streamers mention that Lee Sin has an absurdly early dragon--like, 4 or thereabouts.

[Nargan]

There's no champion in the game that should rush a Mallet. Even Olaf gets Wriggle's first.

I should clarify- when I say rush, I mean boots first. But on many champions I rush mallet and do very well (maybe throw doran's item in for laning) E.g Jarvan, Xin, Lee Sin, Trundle, Prolaf, to name but a few.

[Volatar]

I rush mallet on ashe so her autoattacks slow

Must. Resist. Strangling.

[term1nally s1ck]

I tested WW, he cannot. He *can* once you do wolves and wraiths a second time and go b for more items, and he definitely can if you somehow got enough gold for wriggle's.

I did have no ranks in blood scent though, which is important to gank.

EDIT: Oh god, Lee Sin. Yeah, he should be able to do it pretty easily. Safeguard level 2 and 1 rank in the others should keep him going long enough to tear down dragon.

[Penguinizer]

I have come to the conclusion that Garen is easy mode. This is my friend's (Snaptastic on mumble) first time playing Garen. My third time playing Ryze as a note.


http://i51.tinypic.com/fjzups.jpg


So much KS. :smallfrown:

[Winthur]

I tested WW, he cannot. He *can* once you do wolves and wraiths a second time and go b for more items, and he definitely can if you somehow got enough gold for wriggle's.

All I need to kill dragon at level 4 is a health potion (or two if Madred procs aren't on my side) and a Madred's Razor as WW. At least that's how I remember the test I carried out a month ago or so.

[Astrella]

Must. Resist. Strangling.

Why? Ashe is far too mana-starved to rely on Frost Shot all the time. Why waste mana when you can just get an item to apply the effect for you?

Yes, I know I can turn it off when not attacking a champion. But how am I supposed to get last hits if the minions keep getting away?

:smallwink:

[Inhuman Bot]

I rush mallet on ashe so her autoattacks slow

I prefer Rylai's so her frost shot slows

[term1nally s1ck]

All I need to kill dragon at level 4 is a health potion (or two if Madred procs aren't on my side) and a Madred's Razor as WW. At least that's how I remember the test I carried out a month ago or so.

The change where dragon's AAs apply an atkspd debuff stopped him doing that, sadly.

[Madmal]

Hey all, I recently got to level 30, and i've been reading this threads from time to time, so i guessed this could be a good time to join, specially considering some errors i've done in the past (ie. buying Tier 1 runes, master Yi, etc...)

Anyways, NA server, Malmagor Andrigal > Madmal.

I also have a slight issue to ask about: I want to purchase The Digital Collector's Pack Bundle (since i mostly spend my ip on runes now), but i already already purchased some champions featured there, usually becaused i wanted to keep them around: Ashe (my current Main), Kayle (1st one bought, mostly out of excitement), Morgana (never got good with her), Janna and Zilean.

Do you know if i could ask Riot for some ip back out of them once i buy the bundle? I recall someone asking a similar question once, but i'm not sure on how/where/to who ask it.

And on a more in-game question: Ashe vs. Malz on mid. He and Kog'maw are a pain for me, and a cause of many "OMG! Ashe sux stop feed!". Granted, most of those time are usually due to my internet connection lagging. But even on an average laning game, i still suffer some deaths early game.

Current Build:

G. Mark of Desolation (Flat APen) x9
G. Seal of Clarity (Scaling Mana Regen) x9
G. Glyph of Clarity (Scaling Mana Regen) x2
G. Glyph of Focus (Flat CDReduction) x7
G Quint. of Desolation (Flat APen)x3
21/0/9 Heal/Teleport

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Not possible, I'm currently on the server. I just can't log in as "Zeful" and instead have to login under a non-registered name (in this case Moriarty).

I think I just fixed it.

[Math_Mage]

And on a more in-game question: Ashe vs. Malz on mid. He and Kog'maw are a pain for me, and a cause of many "OMG! Ashe sux stop feed!". Granted, most of those time are usually due to my internet connection lagging. But even on an average laning game, i still suffer some deaths early game.

Current Build:

G. Mark of Desolation (Flat APen) x9
G. Seal of Clarity (Scaling Mana Regen) x9
G. Glyph of Clarity (Scaling Mana Regen) x2
G. Glyph of Focus (Flat CDReduction) x7
G Quint. of Desolation (Flat APen)x3
21/0/9 Heal/Teleport

Go for Ghost-Flash, or Teleport-Flash if you really need the extra trip back during laning phase. Malzahar is a very strong laner, but has no inherent escape; call for a jungle gank. Pre-6, try to harass him when his spells are on CD; don't be afraid to trade AA+Volley for any one spell, and you can usually get off Volley without taking any harass in return. Once he's level 6, you pretty much have to stay out of combo range, and if he sets a pool under your feet you have to flash or ult to avoid dying.

[Suedars]

I prefer Rylai's so her frost shot slows

Why settle for one? I find getting both then Warmog's gives me the tankiness I need. Ashe is an initiator after all.

[Inhuman Bot]

Why settle for one? I find getting both then Warmog's gives me the tankiness I need. Ashe is an initiator after all.

I wonder if Frost Shot, Rylai's, Mallet and Red would 100% slow.

[Flechair]

Go for Ghost-Flash, or Teleport-Flash if you really need the extra trip back during laning phase. Malzahar is a very strong laner, but has no inherent escape; call for a jungle gank. Pre-6, try to harass him when his spells are on CD; don't be afraid to trade AA+Volley for any one spell, and you can usually get off Volley without taking any harass in return. Once he's level 6, you pretty much have to stay out of combo range, and if he sets a pool under your feet you have to flash or ult to avoid dying.

I tend to go tele/flash, because I can get enough last hits to get a bf sword by the time I'm level 7 generally. That extra attack damage is amazing for getting into an actually fight with a caster. Do you know what's also fun arrow+teleport, to try to get them stunned for what feels like forever. Also, even though I don't like to go toe to toe with an AP nuke, an OoM mage is still OoM. :smallamused:

[toasty]

I wonder if Frost Shot, Rylai's, Mallet and Red would 100% slow.

There is this hero in DotA, Dazzle, the Dark Priest, he has a slow that actually makes you walk backwards at max ranks. Its awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[Daverin]

Hey everyone, I've been playing League of Legends off and on (more off due to some computer troubles...), and I remember seeing this thread and thought it would be nice to talk with players who seem to know what they are talking about! :smallbiggrin:

I'm on the NA server, both my forum name and game name are Daverin.

I am a decent player, although I somewhat doubt I'm ranked material or anything. At the least I get that you cannot just pick carry and expect to do everything by yourself (as it happens, carry is my least favorite role anyways :smalltongue:). I have played a few champions by now; if I were to claim any actual experience or skill with them, I'd probably choose Swain, Taric, and MAYBE Olaf and Malzahar. That said, I am still picking up other characters; in particular, I really like Renekton, but I remember reading that they had plans to change bruisers in the game (which, by the way, if anyone has the link to that or has seen it, what are your thoughts?). But, as you can see, I like characters who have good survivability. That said, I definitely need to find some other champions, especially in the carry department. Any suggestions?

[Nargan]

That said, I definitely need to find some other champions, especially in the carry department. Any suggestions?

Any preference, AD or AP carry? If you can land skillshots, I recommend Ezreal. If not, Ashe (she's cheap too) or Miss Fortune for AD, and I'd say Karthus or Veigar for AP.

[ZombyWoof]

And on a more in-game question: Ashe vs. Malz on mid. He and Kog'maw are a pain for me, and a cause of many "OMG! Ashe sux stop feed!". Granted, most of those time are usually due to my internet connection lagging. But even on an average laning game, i still suffer some deaths early game.

Current Build:

G. Mark of Desolation (Flat APen) x9
G. Seal of Clarity (Scaling Mana Regen) x9
G. Glyph of Clarity (Scaling Mana Regen) x2
G. Glyph of Focus (Flat CDReduction) x7
G Quint. of Desolation (Flat APen)x3
21/0/9 Heal/Teleport

Well the first problem you have is Heal :smallwink::smalltongue:

Scaling mana regen runes are a trap imo. You don't have mana problems late game and if you do, you can substitute blue buff or just get a mana crystal (which you should turn into a banshee's Veil anyways).

Secondly, Heal/Teleport is pretty bad on Ashe. I run Ghost/Flash simply because Flash is an all-around allstar summoner spell (It saves your life! It kills enemies! It saves you money on your car insurance!) Honestly speaking flashing out of a gank is a lot better than, say, Healing halfway through the gank.

Also, SAVE THAT CRIT! Crit + Volley is like 200-300 damage at level 1. With HP Quints and a Doran's ring, my Annie starts at like 640 HP. Yeah, you drain half my HP at level 1 with 1 attack and 1 spell use.

After that just focus on last-hitting. Malzahar is pretty good at farming but can be chased out with volleys and AAs. Ideally every time Volley is off cooldown you're putting an arrow in his eye, and if you're lucky and/or gun-ho, you can autoattack him as well. At level 6, Malzahar is GOING to try and ult you in his %HP pool and then silence you and put his other dot on you for a kill. The solution to this is to ult him first and kill him. At level 6 with a doran's item your basic attack deals about 90 damage, your volley should deal like 150, and your arrow deals 225. With proper harass, unless he's running double potion, you should be able to kill him easily. If he's running double potion you may have to wait until level 7.

The same is true for Kog'Maw but while I would recommend Doran's Blade to start against Malz, I'd recommend boots vs Kog because his slime trail can be somewhat difficult to avoid otherwise. Also remember that after he dies he can still blow up on your face. But other than that it's pretty much the same: harass, harass, harass.

As for AD champs: Ezrael is good but very tough to play, Corki is better and easier to play, Ashe is about Corki level (depending on team comps can be much, much better and NEVER EVER pick Udyr if you see an Ashe on the other team) and pretty easy to play but a lot of people do it wrong anyways.

AP: Annie, Anivia, and Ryze are what I consider to be the best straight up mages. Each of them features good, solid damage and Annie/Anivia feature good CC as well. Ryze has a snare which is OK, but eh. If you want to have some fun and rack up the kills, Karthus is hilarious. Morgana is also a good choice if you get the hang of her. I would avoid Veigar because he's just... not that good. He has absurd burst against AP champs but his stun is super lackluster and one of his skills is just nearly impossible to land unless they're stunned. Or really, really slowed I guess. If you want a non-traditional AP champ, KOG'MAW BABY!

[Duos]

So, I recently figured out that Heimerdinger's passive applies to the turrets in your lane as well. I'm standing next to our outer top turret (it nearly went down due to a gank eating our solo Cho) and I realize that the tiny sliver of HP that it has left is growing. When I left it, it had 1/3 HP. Not sure how useful that is, but i'm sure somebody cares.

Also, BLITZCRANK!

[Faulty]

That said, I definitely need to find some other champions, especially in the carry department. Any suggestions?

Ashe and Corki are the carries at the moment and are both quite fun. People say Ashe takes no skill but I think there are some subtleties to her that make her hard to mastery and lots of fun. If you're not interested in either of them, Ezreal and Miss Fortune are both good possibilities.

[ZombyWoof]

Like I always say, it's easy to play Ashe. It's hard to play Ashe well. It took me a while before I got the hang of her, where she needs to be, and how to fight with her. Now, I can safely stay in a teamfight with 300 HP! Learn your positioning and you'll own with her.

[Makensha]

I would avoid Veigar because he's just... not that good. He has absurd burst against AP champs but his stun is super lackluster and one of his skills is just nearly impossible to land unless they're stunned.

Wait wait wait... you're saying his best ability, the 2.5 second AoE on a 20 second CD, is super lackluster? The same skill that makes his skill shot really easy to land (if you know what you're doing)?

His biggest problem is that he wants to farm for the first 25 minutes, meaning that it takes a while before he really starts contributing.

He also sucks at laning.

[Daverin]

Any preference, AD or AP carry? If you can land skillshots, I recommend Ezreal. If not, Ashe (she's cheap too) or Miss Fortune for AD, and I'd say Karthus or Veigar for AP.


Ashe and Corki are the carries at the moment and are both quite fun. People say Ashe takes no skill but I think there are some subtleties to her that make her hard to mastery and lots of fun. If you're not interested in either of them, Ezreal and Miss Fortune are both good possibilities.

I've tried everyone suggested except Ashe and Corki (considering that Ashe has always seemed like a solid champ, I'm not quite sure why.) I liked Ezreal alot, actually, but I played him a while back, and if he hasn't been given some buffing, then I'd probably not be the right player for him (unless he does not need to be buffed and I am not doing it right; in which case I still am not the right player for him! :smalltongue:)

Miss Fortune is supposed to be good, but when I tried her... it just did not click. Not sure how else to put it, but I did not enjoy playing as her. Karthus is awesome, but I still have a ways to go to be good with him; Veigar was pretty good, and if he does work as a carry, I could probably get fairly skilled with him.

As for preferences... not quite any? I will say that I prefer sustained over burst, which means Veigar may not be the best pick. I just can't stand auto attacking or standing there waiting on cooldowns.

Also, what champs are shaping up as good tanks? Although I have Taric, I should probably learn others, and Swain is not an actual tank (even if at the levels I'm playing at, a tanky built Swain apparently scares everyone into attacking him instead...)

[Suedars]

Also, what champs are shaping up as good tanks? Although I have Taric, I should probably learn others, and Swain is not an actual tank (even if at the levels I'm playing at, a tanky built Swain apparently scares everyone into attacking him instead...)

Taric is primarily a supporter, but he can build to be fairly tanky. He doesn't have the initiation that makes for a good tank though. If you want a tank I'd recommend Shen, Amumu, Singed, or Rammus.

[Joran]

That said, I am still picking up other characters; in particular, I really like Renekton, but I remember reading that they had plans to change bruisers in the game (which, by the way, if anyone has the link to that or has seen it, what are your thoughts?).

Patch Preview 1.0.0.115

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdP-Xp0N6o

Phreak: ...we're actually nerfing tanky DPS this patch. What are our plans for those champions?

Morello: A good example of what we're trying to do is some of the stuff we did on Reneketon. We're generally lowering the base damages down and upping the ratios by quite a bit. Hopefully encouraging a little bit more offensive builds on him. It's kind of a thing we was to check out to see if that's the problem in a large live-fire environment. We do have some long-term changes that are really disruptive and experimental that we're testing internally now. We weren't comfortable with a lot of those yet.

[Daverin]

Taric is primarily a supporter, but he can build to be fairly tanky. He doesn't have the initiation that makes for a good tank though. If you want a tank I'd recommend Shen, Amumu, Singed, or Rammus.

Hmm. I'll probably look into Shen and Rammus (If Gragas is still any good, would he work? I had fun playing him.) Singed is hillarious, but may not fit my playing style (even though I like not dying...), and Amumu is something my brother prefers playing.

EDIT:


Patch Preview 1.0.0.115

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkdP-Xp0N6o

Phreak: ...we're actually nerfing tanky DPS this patch. What are our plans for those champions?

Morello: A good example of what we're trying to do is some of the stuff we did on Reneketon. We're generally lowering the base damages down and upping the ratios by quite a bit. Hopefully encouraging a little bit more offensive builds on him. It's kind of a thing we was to check out to see if that's the problem in a large live-fire environment. We do have some long-term changes that are really disruptive and experimental that we're testing internally now. We weren't comfortable with a lot of those yet.

That was the idea I saw. Admittedly, I am on the fence about it. I almost wonder if they should completely rethink what each "type" of champion means from the ground up, but that would really just be a bad idea...

[Inhuman Bot]

There is this hero in DotA, Dazzle, the Dark Priest, he has a slow that actually makes you walk backwards at max ranks. Its awesome. :smallbiggrin:

I play a lot of Dazze and I'm pretty sure that doesn't work.

[ZombyWoof]

Wait wait wait... you're saying his best ability, the 2.5 second AoE on a 20 second CD, is super lackluster? The same skill that makes his skill shot really easy to land (if you know what you're doing)?
The same skill that requires 3 levels to reach the all-star length of Taric and Sion while not ever doing any damage? The same skill that will only ever stun 2 people and for the rest of the time acts like Jarvan's ult? The same still that's on a friggin' 20 second CD?

Yeah. That stun is very lackluster compared to the other single-target stuns, and super lackluster compared to AoE stuns.

[Nargan]

As for AD champs: Ezrael is good but very tough to play, Corki is better and easier to play. Better and easier to play. Better.

Get out. Blasphemy! :smallmad:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

The same skill that requires 3 levels to reach the all-star length of Taric and Sion while not ever doing any damage? The same skill that will only ever stun 2 people and for the rest of the time acts like Jarvan's ult? The same still that's on a friggin' 20 second CD?

Yeah. That stun is very lackluster compared to the other single-target stuns, and super lackluster compared to AoE stuns.

The skill that shuts the carry in a radius for 3 seconds even if you miss? The only non-ult stun in the game that acts as an escape mechanism and the only stun in the game that blocks the enemy team's movement without exposing you to danger? The stun that functions as both a "don't escape" and a "don't go near us?" The same stun that can stun an entire enemy team, even if they're not in the initial AoE but instead walk into it trying to kill you?

Oh...and it's also a 2.5 second stun. That's crazy.

It's actually one of the best stuns in the game if you can use it right. Its utility is unmatched. It's just not always worth having Veigar around for the stun, but the stun itself is godly.

[ZombyWoof]

Yes, because it sure shuts down Tristana and Corki, eh? They ahve NO WAY of getting out at all!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Yes, because it sure shuts down Tristana and Corki, eh? They ahve NO WAY of getting out at all!

As I said...if you use it correctly. If you hit someone with the edge? They're stunned, no questions asked. If you can't, then you just need to practice Veigar more. Want to stun a carry? Hit them with the edge of the AoE. Game over.

[Daverin]

So, for carry, I guess I'll try Ashe and Ezreal.

For the tanks, which one has more survivability, Rammus or Shen? I'd imagine they both are good, since they are tanks, but is one superior to the other? Also, even though it is personal opinion, which one do you think is more fun, any why? (see if one playstyle matches me better than another...)

[ZombyWoof]

Like I said, it's a SINGLE TARGET stun that does no damage. And you have to have max ranks in it for it to be 2.5 seconds, which means that Veigar has to walk to the back of the enemy team and stun him, and then he has to get out?

Either you're planning on trading 1 for 1 your veigar for their carry but why not just pick a better champ? Like why not Sion? Then you'd blast 600 damage and be able to survive heading to the back to go after Ashe or whoever! Or you could pick Annie and stun 3 people instead of 1. Or if you're THAT set on killing the carry, pick Akali/Kassadin, jump in, kill the bastard, and jump out, being useful for the rest of the teamfight.

Shen is much superior to Rammus.

[toasty]

I play a lot of Dazze and I'm pretty sure that doesn't work.

It does, I've seen it a lot.

[Makensha]

Like I said, it's a SINGLE TARGET stun that does no damage. And you have to have max ranks in it for it to be 2.5 seconds, which means that Veigar has to walk to the back of the enemy team and stun him, and then he has to get out?

Either you're planning on trading 1 for 1 your veigar for their carry but why not just pick a better champ? Like why not Sion? Then you'd blast 600 damage and be able to survive heading to the back to go after Ashe or whoever! Or you could pick Annie and stun 3 people instead of 1. Or if you're THAT set on killing the carry, pick Akali/Kassadin, jump in, kill the bastard, and jump out, being useful for the rest of the teamfight.

We're not arguing about whether Veigar sucks. He does. Don't change the subject. We're talking about Veigar's stun.

Why do you say its a SINGLE TARGET stun? It isn't. I've seen teamfights dominated by an Event Horizon properly placed. Its longer than Galio's or Amumu ult. THEIR ULT. I think it can be excused for dealing 0 damage. It can also stun people twice. Of course, that only happens to rammus powerballing, but that's 5 seconds of being stunned. It also has rather long range, and using it as initiation can work. You don't necessarily have to use the stun on the carry, because if you stun the people between you and the carry, the carry either has to run away or get sploded. Its very useful, but very hard to use.

[term1nally s1ck]

I place the AoE around your entire team from max range, with the far edge on the carry, autostunning them. Drop the full combo on whoever, and walk off behind my team again.

The stats online for Dazzle don't seem to include any walking backwards.

[toasty]

The stats online for Dazzle don't seem to include any walking backwards.

Well you LOOK like you're walking backwards.

[TheEndIsNear]

Blah guys, my two characters are Noct and Tryndamere. I think I might want to add 1 or two more to learn then rotate those. I don't ahve a jungler/tank/AP damage/Mage.

I had Fiddles, Karthus and Ryze in mind to try. Any tips for Trynd and Noct and out of those 3, gimmie pointers on the perks of each?

[Suedars]

Well you LOOK like you're walking backwards.

Because of the momentary root on it if you're playing with high lag you can rubberband backwards a step or two.

[term1nally s1ck]

Well, Karthus has by far the best song.

[Daverin]

Oh, btw, how is Ryze doing? I understand his changes made him more of a tanky caster? Or is he still essentially mage dps?

Also, how is Shen better than Rammus? Is it just his abilities tank better? Admittedly, he does seem to have a good tool set, but powerball always looks fun. :smalltongue:

Also, I just remembered, isn't Udyr considered a tank? Or is he just tanky dps? Either way, I should learn to use him...

[term1nally s1ck]

Shen has an AoE taunt, and can split push and still be at teamfights.

UDYR is weak atm.

Ryze is OP, he scales quadratically with CDR, and needs to build no damage past a tear of the goddess, so just maxes on defensive items. He's nuts, he just stands there and spams your face off.

[Daverin]

I'll admit, just watching a Ryze bot at play, at level 1 I swear he got to use way too many spells without ever going oom... it was annoying, to say the least.

And Udyr is weak? I thought he is still a top tier jungler? I really must not be keeping up without a constantly accessible computer to play LoL with...

[TheEndIsNear]

I tend to like those who can farm well but Fiddle's drain just killed me way too much time for me to ignore. Ryze was my third played champ.(hi free week and last day of it XD). Karthus looks amazing but 6300 IP when I have about 1.8k bleh...

[Mtg_player_zach]

Blah guys, my two characters are Noct and Tryndamere. I think I might want to add 1 or two more to learn then rotate those. I don't ahve a jungler/tank/AP damage/Mage.

I had Fiddles, Karthus and Ryze in mind to try. Any tips for Trynd and Noct and out of those 3, gimmie pointers on the perks of each?


Erm, nocturne belongs in the jungle. Fast, Strong ganks, can carry from the jungle.

[Dralnu]

Karthus generally dies a lot and gets tons of kills. His main attack is a skillshot that isn't terribly difficult to place at the beginning, but requires more skill as your opponents get boots. He also has a wall CC that reduces armor / speed and an AOE that does good damage. His ultimate is a global ks that requires either very good map awareness or your team on mics so they can tell you when to use it.

Ryze is a tanky dps that, unlike other tanky dps, doesn't seem to be getting nerfed in the near future (until the community makes him the FOTM whine and then Riot will do something). He does solid damage, some AOE, and a CC single target snare, while being very survivable.

Fiddles is a "squishy" CC caster that is deceptively survivable in small skirmishes due to his Drain Life ability. He's also got a fear and silence. His ult dishes out awesome AOE damage. Fiddles is getting buffed next patch so he scales better into the lategame.

Get Ryze if you want a powerful tanky DPS. Get Karthus if you laugh at death and love cleaning up fights. Get Fiddles if you like shouting CAWCAWCAWCAWCAW!!

[Faulty]

So, for carry, I guess I'll try Ashe and Ezreal.

For the tanks, which one has more survivability, Rammus or Shen? I'd imagine they both are good, since they are tanks, but is one superior to the other? Also, even though it is personal opinion, which one do you think is more fun, any why? (see if one playstyle matches me better than another...)

Shen is OP.

[toasty]

I'll admit, just watching a Ryze bot at play, at level 1 I swear he got to use way too many spells without ever going oom... it was annoying, to say the least.

And Udyr is weak? I thought he is still a top tier jungler? I really must not be keeping up without a constantly accessible computer to play LoL with...

Stvicious think's he trash because he gets kited. Udyr's problem is that he's item depedent and his early game is very weak. Without blue he's not so hot (he can survive running turtle and start at minis, but its subpar). Compare him to Warwick or Trundle and you begin to see why he's not so strong. Amumu pretty much blows him out of the water.

[term1nally s1ck]

Udyr can't close a gap. All he can do is run slightly faster. If he wants to survive to get into their team, he has to build pretty much full tank, and then he does pretty much no damage. He's a tanky DPS without significant DPS.

[Spartacus]

An even slightly farmed Udyr eats entire teams, though.

[Eldariel]

Like I said, it's a SINGLE TARGET stun that does no damage.

Single target? It's a massive AoE. It's definitely Veigar's best ability aside from the AP-hosing ult (too bad it doesn't work well on Ryze; otherwise he'd be real good in solo queue right now with all the Ryze/Malz/etc. players).

Btw, Gragas is totally superspecial awesome. And Shaco ganks in 3v3 are real annoying; there are like 5 places from where he can reach your tower thus meaning, if you aren't tower hugging entirely, you need like billion wards and constant coverage of Shaco's position to avoid the ganks. Blaaaargh.


Udyr can't close a gap. All he can do is run slightly faster. If he wants to survive to get into their team, he has to build pretty much full tank, and then he does pretty much no damage. He's a tanky DPS without significant DPS.

He has decent damage even with no items between Tiger and Phoenix procs and his naturally high attack speed. He doesn't necessarily hurt as much as other Tanky DPS types and he could probably use a slight buff to his overall damage values but he's really fine against anything but super-CC heavy teams.

[Daverin]

Alright, so... Udyr's a carry?

Alright, so Shen is much better right now, but it sounds like he is in the ever wonderful position of getting nerfed soon, at least the way you guys are describing it. That aside, is he still worth picking up even if that is to occur? Or is someone else a more "solid" tank in the sense that they do well without pushing the nerf-line?


Btw, Gragas is totally superspecial awesome. And Shaco ganks in 3v3 are real annoying; there are like 5 places from where he can reach your tower thus meaning, if you aren't tower hugging entirely, you need like billion wards and constant coverage of Shaco's position to avoid the ganks. Blaaaargh.

Wait, so Gragas is still good? I may just use him, then.

[Dogmantra]

Alright, so... Udyr's a carry?

Alright, so Shen is much better right now, but it sounds like he is in the ever wonderful position of getting nerfed soon, at least the way you guys are describing it. That aside, is he still worth picking up even if that is to occur? Or is someone else a more "solid" tank in the sense that they do well without pushing the nerf-line?

Put it this way.
Shen has been OP since before I started playing. I have been playing since just before Galio came out. Shen has been nerfed once since then. And to make up for the nerf they also buffed him in the same patch.

The reason is that he's OP just because of his role and the fundamental functions of his abilities. To make him not OP, he'd need to be reworked quite significantly or his numbers would need to be nerfed so significantly that he'd probably become unviable.

[Eldariel]

Alright, so Shen is much better right now, but it sounds like he is in the ever wonderful position of getting nerfed soon, at least the way you guys are describing it. That aside, is he still worth picking up even if that is to occur? Or is someone else a more "solid" tank in the sense that they do well without pushing the nerf-line?

Shen is fine and probably will remain fine for the foreseeable future. He's strong enough that even a small nerf (the only thing likely to get nerfed on him is his ultimate) wouldn't really hurt him.

He's always, since release, been a top tier tank and I don't see that changing any time soon unless they really nerf him to the ground - his skill set isn't even remotely replicated by any other champion and it just happens to be really good.


Wait, so Gragas is still good? I may just use him, then.

Gragas is fine. He isn't used as much since the removal of Locket but there are few good Gragas-players who pretty much drive home that he can own. He can also build AP very efficiently and even has some AD synergies so he's a very versatile champion that can build to what you need, much like Sion. Though I was talking about 3v3 where Gragas of course gains massive advantage from Body Slam being able to pass through all the walls. There he's still top tier. In 5v5 though, he isn't bad either. Nicosharp plays a very sharp (teehee) Gragas, for example.

[Daverin]

Good to hear about Shen and Gragas. I actually played Gragas for a while, although I went AP (as I recall), instead of tank. Hearing that nicosharp stills owns with him is awesome. I suppose then I'll learn them both, and see which I prefer. The only problem is that to learn a character, I'd want to use vs AI first, but I feel like the AI does not perform much in the way of teamfights or other important areas to learn how to tank...

[Eldariel]

Good to hear about Shen and Gragas. I actually played Gragas for a while, although I went AP (as I recall), instead of tank. Hearing that nicosharp stills owns with him is awesome. I suppose then I'll learn them both, and see which I prefer. The only problem is that to learn a character, I'd want to use vs AI first, but I feel like the AI does not perform much in the way of teamfights or other important areas to learn how to tank...

Well, the bots in Co-op vs. AI do teamfight and such unless you completely trounce them. So that might work. Or just normal games; screw the haterz.

[TheEndIsNear]

Karthus generally dies a lot and gets tons of kills. His main attack is a skillshot that isn't terribly difficult to place at the beginning, but requires more skill as your opponents get boots. He also has a wall CC that reduces armor / speed and an AOE that does good damage. His ultimate is a global ks that requires either very good map awareness or your team on mics so they can tell you when to use it.

Ryze is a tanky dps that, unlike other tanky dps, doesn't seem to be getting nerfed in the near future (until the community makes him the FOTM whine and then Riot will do something). He does solid damage, some AOE, and a CC single target snare, while being very survivable.

Fiddles is a "squishy" CC caster that is deceptively survivable in small skirmishes due to his Drain Life ability. He's also got a fear and silence. His ult dishes out awesome AOE damage. Fiddles is getting buffed next patch so he scales better into the lategame.

Get Ryze if you want a powerful tanky DPS. Get Karthus if you laugh at death and love cleaning up fights. Get Fiddles if you like shouting CAWCAWCAWCAWCAW!!

Thanks. I like powerful. I like Laughing. I like shouting. This is one hard decision. I play on Mic with friends at time. My map aweareness isn't bad. I don't like dying though, I tend to get stuff like 5/1/3 than 11/7/2... Maybe fiddles is the least my type but he's getting a buff. Ryze might be weird as I tend to go more for MOAR damage! Karthus might be the one, but skillshots I haven't used cept for Noct like a few weeks back and well back then I couldn't do it on teemo sped up but apart from that I was very lucky with.

[Daverin]

All I can say is that there are few things as satisfying as seeing a Karthus use a well placed ult. Keep that in mind. :smallwink:

[Arbitrarity]

That Shen hasn't been nerfed is lies. His ult took a 150/75/0 hit to the provided shield, which SEVERELY nerfs its power in early game. Like, 37.5% nerf.

[Dralnu]

My god do I hate laning against Leblanc in mid. I'm playing suuuuuper defensive against her as Ezreal and rush a QSS. Jungle WW flashes and ults, I QSS and E to my tower, Leblanc flash + nukes me from 80% hp to 0%. What. The. Hell.

Yeah yeah, she sucks lategame, but her early burst is just dumb. :smallannoyed:

[Silverraptor]

My god do I hate laning against Leblanc in mid. I'm playing suuuuuper defensive against her as Ezreal and rush a QSS. Jungle WW flashes and ults, I QSS and E to my tower, Leblanc flash + nukes me from 80% hp to 0%. What. The. Hell.

Yeah yeah, she sucks lategame, but her early burst is just dumb. :smallannoyed:

But if you take out her early burst, then you might as well remove the champion, because that's what she does. She's just the early version of annie that doesn't carry into late game as well.

[ZombyWoof]

I can attest that the Shen nerfs of recent patch REALLY hurt his ult. 200 shield is... nothing.

I would also be very upset if they nerfed Shen more. If what's op about him is that he can split push and then join the teamfight, I would think Teleport would be the most broken spell in the game! And yet everyone complains about Flash.

Shen isn't exactly "counterable" but he's beatable. Hell, I just got out of a game where the other team had a Shen, a reasonably good Shen, and still lost. They lost pretty handily, actually. To split push. (I love Singed!)

[Eldariel]

I would also be very upset if they nerfed Shen more. If what's op about him is that he can split push and then join the teamfight, I would think Teleport would be the most broken spell in the game! And yet everyone complains about Flash.

Who complains about Flash? I haven't hear anyone who actually knows about this game complain about that. Like, even when Flash was last nerfed, top players pretty uniformly laughed and pointed out how Ghost is way more used. Of course, now that Ghost is also nerfed I guess they're back to some sort of an equilibrium.

TP's primary issue is the cooldown and the fact that it doesn't really help in fighting; just getting there. Especially earlier on, ganks, lanefights and the like are all about trading summoner spells and Teleport doesn't really trade with anything. Flash, Ghost, Exhaust and Ignite all trade somewhat cleanly (Ignite less so, for obvious reasons, but it's still roughly the same paradigm) and Cleanse does somewhat, as well. That said, TP is still one of the key counters to BD comps.

[Dogmantra]

That Shen hasn't been nerfed is lies. His ult took a 150/75/0 hit to the provided shield, which SEVERELY nerfs its power in early game. Like, 37.5% nerf.

Oh, yeah, forgot about that. But I still don't think that they can nerf his numbers and make him balanced.

And regarding Teleport not being OP yet Shen's ult being OP, it's because Shen's ultimate makes his entire team ungankable since one of the best ways of beating a team with a good tank player is just to catch the carries away from the tank. Teleport requires a minion, ward or tower nearby and there's just not always that available.

[Spartacus]

Well, the bots in Co-op vs. AI do teamfight and such unless you completely trounce them.

What if you completely trounce them in the teamfight? Teemo-Pentakill-every-time-they-spawn type of trouncing.

Slightly related, while I do seem them gang up to gank lanes (mostly mid or bot), I can only recall them pushing bot. I've never seen a huge presence in the top lane.

[ZombyWoof]

I'm sorry but champs aren't "ungankable" during Shen's ult any more than they are "ungankable" during TF's ult. Shen's ult gives them a whopping 200 hp. Big whoop. And it's not the "suddenly 2v2" that makes Shen's ult op, otherwise TF would be tier 1.

[Silverraptor]

I'm sorry but champs aren't "ungankable" during Shen's ult any more than they are "ungankable" during TF's ult. Shen's ult gives them a whopping 200 hp. Big whoop. And it's not the "suddenly 2v2" that makes Shen's ult op, otherwise TF would be tier 1.

No, its the "+200 hp and another champion with a taunt that could get everyone who was trying to gank the carry and lead them the completely wrong way while the carry escaped" part of the ult that makes it so powerful.

[Dogmantra]

No, its the "+200 hp and another champion with a taunt that could get everyone who was trying to gank the carry and lead them the completely wrong way while the carry escaped" part of the ult that makes it so powerful.

It's also on a tank who can farm absurdly well in the lane, with crazy burst to get fed. And past level 11 it gives way more than 200hp. Add to that the "tanking" coming from being able to harrass super well with daggers and Ki Strikes on your opponents that leads to them being underlevelled and underfarmed.

[Inhuman Bot]

I wonder why so many people still complain about Stealth in this game. It's nowhere near as useful as it is in DotA, and yet the complaints are worse.

[Daverin]

Not a clue. Granted, getting the tools to see past stealth can be somewhat costly starting out, but it is worth it since so many stealth characters seem rather disadvantaged without it (in my experience, anyways. I still need to get to 30, so I'm probably missing out on quite a bit. Then again, all I've heard implies that the count of people who don't know what a turret even is doesn't decrease by then, either...)

[Volatar]

I present, Brorelia (http://leaguecraft.com/skins/5216-crestfall-brorelia.xhtml).

I am not sure whether I should be amused or horrified.

[Suedars]

I wonder why so many people still complain about Stealth in this game. It's nowhere near as useful as it is in DotA, and yet the complaints are worse.

It's less stealth alone and more the combination of stealth and burst damage. In DotA your burst damage stealth heroes (NA, BH) don't scale into the lategame since spells don't scale with items for the most part in DotA. So even if they wreck you early you can tank up a bit and they'll be little more than an annoyance in the lategame.

In LoL a fed pubstomping Eve will get a ridiculous amount of AP very quickly and threeshot squishy characters throughout the entire game.

[Neftren]

I present, Brorelia (http://leaguecraft.com/skins/5216-crestfall-brorelia.xhtml).

I am not sure whether I should be amused or horrified.

I'm tempted to install this. Nobody else would see it though, right? Also, her cleavage seems to have been surgically enlarged...