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Xyk
2011-04-12, 05:24 PM
I was reading today's Darths and Droids (http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0556.html) and the accompanying blurb, and I thought "This would be a fun thing to do with my game". My campaign is set to begin either this weekend or the next, and I'm not even sure if we will have any casters (I'm being a reactive DM this time, and am allowing virtually anything to happen). Given that the casters in 3.5 are generally weaker at low levels (level 2 in this case), and my group is made up 4 players for whom this will be their third (moderately short) campaign, and 1 who has played only one (moderately short) campaign before, will this boost to casters which is made solely to make them more interesting affect balance in any significant way?

tl;dr I wanna give casters the ability to reverse their spells in a low-op level 2 campaign, problem?

Here's some examples. Obviously, it does not apply to everything. And many things would need a save.
Resistance- Subject gets a -1 penalty to all saving throws
Dancing Lights- puts out torches and other lights
Flare- Gives +1 to attack rolls for one creature
Light- Object shines like a nega-torch (decreases light in an area)
Touch of Fatigue- Touch un-fatigues target
Mending- Makes minor damage to an object

Endure Elements- Target is more vulnerable to the elements.
Protection vs good/evil/etc.- Target is given -2 to AC and saves against that alignment.
Grease- Makes an area sticky.
Mage Armor- Subject gains a -4 penalty to AC.
True Strike- Next attack gains -20 penalty.
Charm Person- Makes one person your enemy.

Jack_Simth
2011-04-12, 05:50 PM
Most buffing spells don't cause much of a problem - Bull's Strength switching out to Kitten's Weakness isn't overly much of a balance concern, nor is trading Barkskin (+NA) for Tangleskin (-NA as roots sprout from your skin and guide things a bit better to vital areas). It does, however, grant a little bit more flexibility than they'd otherwise have, and a flexibility boost is, to a degree, also a power boost, though usually a reasonably mild one.

However, in D&D (as in most things), offense is easier than defense. Certain spells will cause problems. A Reversed Ray of Enfeeblement is usually better than Bull's Strength at level 2 (1d6+1 averages 4.5, while Bull's Strength is a flat 4), and is strictly better than Bull's Strength after level 6 (1d6+3 is never less than the flat 4 from Bull's Strength). Meanwhile, Ray of Enfeeblement is a 1st level untyped ranged spell, while Bull's Strength is a 2nd level Enhancement touch-only spell. They both have the same duration. This particular spell is a relatively mild issue, but demonstrates it fairly well: You can do more buff stacking with less resources if you let a negative intent spell become a positive effect.

Where you really start to see issues, though, is Bestow Curse. A Cleric-3 spell that is permanent, rather difficult to remove, typeless, and grants +6 to a stat? A +4 untyped bonus to attack rolls, saves, skill checks, and ability checks? One casting of a 3rd level Cleric spell in down-time is almost strictly better than a 137,500 gp item (+5 Tome/Manual)... and stacks with that item. It's also available well before you'd be able to pick up the 36,000 gp Periapt/Headband/Belt/Et cetera for your stat of choice. The Greater version in Spell Compendium is even better (or worse, depending on perspective...) for this (+6 to two stats, +8 untyped bonus to attack rolls, saves, skill checks, and ability checks). And that's ignoring the question of what happens if you reverse the "50% chance you do nothing" option (75% chance you do nothing with the Greater version in spell compendium).

Allowing buffing spells to be reversed into debuff spells is only a small boost to casters. Going the other way will cause you headaches.

nedz
2011-04-12, 07:31 PM
Reversing Spells was standard for most spells in 1E and 2E. In fact most spells came in pairs: Cure/Cause Light Wounds, Light/Darkness, Enlarge/Reduce Person, etc, ...
Darth's and Droid's is probably making that inferance.

Xyk
2011-04-12, 08:40 PM
Reversing Spells was standard for most spells in 1E and 2E. In fact most spells came in pairs: Cure/Cause Light Wounds, Light/Darkness, Enlarge/Reduce Person, etc, ...
Darth's and Droid's is probably making that inferance.

It was making that reference, specifically. I never played earlier than 2e and was too young to really get into that, so I hadn't heard of that.

Jack, I see your point. The spell that immediately came to mind as being cool reversed was grease, and I assumed there would be more. I agree with your suggestion of avoiding debuff spells being reversed. I'll make sure those aren't.

NichG
2011-04-12, 10:02 PM
Reversals need not necessarily be mechanical inversions of the numbers of the spell. I'd say that 'Bestow Curse' reverses to 'Remove Curse', for instance.