Most broken spell tricks under 15th level?

[SPoD]

Quick question for people: What are the most broken things you can do with spells no higher than 7th level? I don't mean "broken" as in too powerful for its level (though I guess I'll take those too), I mean "broken" as in the game no longer functions as intended. Stuff like making walls of iron and selling them as scrap metal until you're millionaires. The stuff that everyone just sort of agrees not to do. Bonus points if they're the things that any member of the class can do without needing any special feats or levels.

Don't worry, the knowledge will not be put to use in an actual game. :smallbiggrin: I'm engaged in a discussion elsewhere and I need good examples.

[Draz74]

Shrink Item
Explosive Runes (+Dispel Magic)
Wall of Iron, like you said, or Flesh to Salt
Simulacrum

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

-The planar binding line can get you wish loops at that point, I'm pretty sure. Or at least free Astral Projections.

-Simulacrum is 7th level. Combine this with the planar binding line, and you don't even need to start a loop to get the 9th level spells you want to REALLY break the game.

-I'm not sure what happens when you apply Chain Spell to Magic Jar, and I'm not sure I want to know.

-Major Creation + Physics = catgirl genocide.

-Control Weather can mess up entire cities, if you're into that sort of thing.

-Holy Word/Blasphemy/Dictum/Word of Chaos turns optimized Cleric BBEGs into an instant TPK.

There's more, but that's off the top of my head.

[SPoD]

Shrink Item
Explosive Runes (+Dispel Magic)
Wall of Iron, like you said, or Flesh to Salt
Simulacrum

Assume that I haven't heard of any of these before, because in more cases than not, I won't have. I have no idea how Shrink Item breaks the game unless someone explains it to me.

I'm guessing Simulacrum is with Planar Binding? Call an efreet, then just let it stew in a magic circle while you create a Simulacrum of it and then have the Simulacrum cast Wish. Is that the gist of it?

[JeminiZero]

-Spellblade Tennis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151109).
-On the topic of destroying cities: Locate City Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8868176&postcount=27).
-If you include wall of iron sale, there is that weird trick where you can break a ladder into two 10 foot poles (and a bunch of leftover rungs as firewood), and sell them for a profit.

[Azernak0]

I'm guessing Simulacrum is with Planar Binding? Call an efreet, then just let it stew in a magic circle while you create a Simulacrum of it and then have the Simulacrum cast Wish. Is that the gist of it?

Simulacrum is more often used to create Solars. Eschew Materials or buying a lock of Solar hair makes you able to create your own little Solar Snowman.

Also, Summon Monster 7 lets you summon a Djinni. They can do Major Creation with the caveat that vegetable matter has a permanent duration. Create enough Black Lotus extract or any kind of expensive vegetable matter to fill a swimming pool. Breaks wealth by level or creates enough poison to massacre a country.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Contingency: Celerity. You > Action Economy.

Forcecage + Cloudkill. No save, No SR, Con damage until you fall over dead. kkthxbai.

Rope Trick. When did we start playing a JRPG complete with Save Points?

[Soren Hero]

Simulacrum is more often used to create Solars. Eschew Materials or buying a lock of Solar hair makes you able to create your own little Solar Snowman.

solars are almost always a good choice, but maybe not at first...efreeti for 3 free wishes every day can do wonders for you...especially because you can wish for more simulacrum spells (free of xp costs, and instant), wish for more magic items, wish for better magic items, etc...once you can get a casting of genesis for your own private demiplane, combine with simulacrum nightmare, and poof...you have your own secret base and what amounts to virtual reality at that point

[gbprime]

I don't mean "broken" as in too powerful for its level (though I guess I'll take those too)

Okay, since you'll take those too, I'll plug my trademarked Boom Box (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10605783&postcount=15) again. :smallbiggrin:

[gbprime]

once you can get a casting of genesis for your own private demiplane, combine with simulacrum nightmare, and poof...you have your own secret base and what amounts to virtual reality at that point

And that's when I, as the DM, am obliged to make something go horribly, horribly wrong. :smallamused:

[SPoD]

Are there any good Polymorph Self tricks anyone can offer? Or do you need to get to Shapechange before those start getting weird?

[Draz74]

Are there any good Polymorph Self tricks anyone can offer? Or do you need to get to Shapechange before those start getting weird?

Polymorph is too powerful for its level, but not really any good for breaking the campaign setting. Game-breaking stuff (according to your definition in this thread) only comes along with Polymorph Any Object, Level 15.

[Sacrieur]

There's a way to abuse Circle Spell to infinitely heighten and thus apply every metamagic to every spell in your arsenal. I believe a 9th level wizard can do it IIRC.

[Forbiddenwar]

-On the topic of destroying cities: Locate City Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8868176&postcount=27).

I think the OP is interested in actual spells, not fictional or nonfunctual ones.
I could say that Acid Splash (level 0) spell is broken, as the spell doesn't say the acid damage ceases after the 1 round.

[Soren Hero]

And that's when I, as the DM, am obliged to make something go horribly, horribly wrong. :smallamused:

oh me too..me too..i always wanted to spring other wizards who can do this on those wizards who do this in game

[Callista]

Rope Trick. When did we start playing a JRPG complete with Save Points?...wait now, you put Rope Trick in the same category as Forcecage/Cloudkill? How in the world is Rope Trick broken? Getting a safe place to sleep in for a few hours, or a little extraplanar pocket to escape from danger, is not overpowered at all. Useful, yes. But overpowered?

To contribute to the thread:
Commoner Railgun.
Put a bunch of people in a line. Hand an object to the first person. Have everybody ready an action to hand the object to the next person when it's handed to them. All of those actions take place in six seconds. With enough people, you can easily break the sound barrier (though you'd need on the order of a million to actually get close to the speed of light).

Take that... apply the ready actions to quickened spells... one would assume the laws of physics would be crying for mercy. Though where one would find that many spellcasters is anybody's guess.

Everybody donate a few coppers toward catgirl funerals now...

[Jarian]

...wait now, you put Rope Trick in the same category as Forcecage/Cloudkill? How in the world is Rope Trick broken? Getting a safe place to sleep in for a few hours, or a little extraplanar pocket to escape from danger, is not overpowered at all. Useful, yes. But overpowered?

I cast Rope Trick.

Yes, I know it's only been like ten minutes, but I want my 6th level spell slots back, and besides, we've seen like, what, one monster with True Seeing in the last arc? Yeah, I'm going to sleep.

Good night, wake me when it's time to kill stuff again.

Also: Commoner Railgun mixes D&D and real physics. It cannot work with one or the other. In short, it doesn't work.

The Pony Express is a fun trick in the same vein, however.

[SurlySeraph]

I think the OP is interested in actual spells, not fictional or nonfunctual ones.
I could say that Acid Splash (level 0) spell is broken, as the spell doesn't say the acid damage ceases after the 1 round.

"You fire a small orb of acid at the target. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. The orb deals 1d3 points of acid damage."
Compare Magic Missile: "A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage."
Or compare Ray of Frost: "The ray deals 1d3 points of cold damage."

I don't think you actually believe there's an argument that Acid Splash lasts more than one round. I think you're just trying to come up with an unexpected answer.

[Silva Stormrage]

I think the OP is interested in actual spells, not fictional or nonfunctual ones.
I could say that Acid Splash (level 0) spell is broken, as the spell doesn't say the acid damage ceases after the 1 round.

Huh? Okay some would argue that the locate city bomb trick doesn't work and thats fine. It still however, points out a broken application of a spell because if the original doesn't work the dirty version (negative levels) defiantly works.

Also acid splash is an instantaneous duration evocation which doesn't deal damage over time. Soooo not sure what you mean by that.

Contributing
Assuming Psionics syncroncicity is really really really poorly thought out. Linking it with itself causes so many infinite loops especially with some ways of giving unlimited power points.

[JeminiZero]

I think the OP is interested in actual spells, not fictional or nonfunctual ones.

Here's a friendly piece of advice: Before you comment on something that has a link, try to actually check out the link first.

[GoatBoy]

"You fire a small orb of acid at the target. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. The orb deals 1d3 points of acid damage."
Compare Magic Missile: "A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage."
Or compare Ray of Frost: "The ray deals 1d3 points of cold damage."

I don't think you actually believe there's an argument that Acid Splash lasts more than one round. I think you're just trying to come up with an unexpected answer.

Ray of frost also does not specifically say that it can't create a sphere of annihilation. I'm game if you are! :smallbiggrin:

[Forbiddenwar]

Here's a friendly piece of advice: Before you comment on something that has a link, try to actually check out the link first.

I did read your link prior to posting. Both variants of the Locate City Bomb have been discussed at length on this forum,
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72212
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138285
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136046
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128238

and I understood that both are shown to only work through ignoring the rules of the game. (Not RAW)

Perhaps I was mistaken.

[JeminiZero]

As mentioned by Silva Stormrage, the Explosive version of the LCB is subject to the circle/sphere controversy. But the Fell Drain Wightpocalypse version is generally seen to work as written (although the sphere/circle intepretation affects whether you convert all the peasants, or just those at ground level)

[Eldan]

The trick with Shrink item is basically this:

You make an adamantine dome or box, big enough to hide under. Then you shrink it, so you can wear it as a hat, or under your hat.

As soon as you enter an antimagic field, the dome expands and hides you. There's no line of sight to you anymore, and most things can't get through the adamantine. Therefore, you are safe until you leave the AMF.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

...wait now, you put Rope Trick in the same category as Forcecage/Cloudkill? How in the world is Rope Trick broken? Getting a safe place to sleep in for a few hours, or a little extraplanar pocket to escape from danger, is not overpowered at all. Useful, yes. But overpowered?

A Wizard's 'check' on power is the number of spells per day they have.

Rope Trick bypasses this.

A 17th level wizard normally has one spell per day. With Rope Trick, this becomes one 9th level spell per encounter. Because after said encounter, he can simply hide in his rope trick until his spells come back.

This gives the Wizard the ability to nova through as many spells he has, and encourages him to use all his most powerful spells every encounter, because he can simply get them back after by hiding in his Rope Trick.

[mostlyharmful]

A Wizard's 'check' on power is the number of spells per day they have.

Rope Trick bypasses this.

A 17th level wizard normally has one spell per day. With Rope Trick, this becomes one 9th level spell per encounter. Because after said encounter, he can simply hide in his rope trick until his spells come back.

This gives the Wizard the ability to nova through as many spells he has, and encourages him to use all his most powerful spells every encounter, because he can simply get them back after by hiding in his Rope Trick.

A wizard player who's prepared to actually use Rope Trick like that has, by this point, massively more than just their slots per day. Rope Trick's strong but isn't the level of broken the OP is looking for, it's got significant downsides and time costs and generally makes the game slower but still playable.

Now, planer binding/Simulacruming Noble Djinn armies from your extraplaner unassailable base while stealing divine ranks from polymorphed squirrels and acquiring NI-wealth is more the case we're looking for.

Also, check out the Emerald Legion, Shapechanges more outragous uses (Zodar for free personal wishes), Contact Other Plane omnisci-cheats, the Cheater of Mystra and Teleport Through Time (with eschew material components).:smallyuk:

[Kansaschaser]

1) Create 15 Large Sized Two Handed Bludgeoning Weapons. My favorite is the Executioner's Mace or the Warmace. The easiest way to create them is with Fabricate (5th level spell) and Craft (Weaponsmithing).

2) Cast Greater Magic Weapon with the Chain Spell Metamagic Feat (6th level spell). This is now a 6th level spell. At 15th level, the weapons all get a +3 magical bonus.

3) Cast Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon) with the Chain Spell Metamagic Feat (6th level spell). Each weapon will now deal damage as if they are Colossal Sized.

4) Cast Shrink Item with the Chain Spell Metamagic Feat (6th level spell). Put all the diminutive maces on a charm bracelet or inside a Handy Haversack (your choice).

5) During Combat, drop the bracelet to the ground so all the maces return to large size. Cast Telekenisis (5th leel spell) and hurl all 15 of the maces with the Violent Thrust maneuver. Average attack roll +17 (Base Attack +7, Enhancement +3, Intelligence +7) with 8d6+3 damage per mace. Maximum damage: 120d6+45.

Note: You'll notice that all these spells are from the Transmutation school, so a Transmuter specialist would work very well.

[dextercorvia]

Did I miss Summon Mirror Mephit?

It's no Mindrape, but Modify Memory has some open ended applications.

In the right hands Silent Image is game breaking.

[dextercorvia]

1) Create 15 Large Sized Two Handed Bludgeoning Weapons. My favorite is the Executioner's Mace or the Warmace. The easiest way to create them is with Fabricate (5th level spell) and Craft (Weaponsmithing).

2) Cast Greater Magic Weapon with the Chain Spell Metamagic Feat (6th level spell). This is now a 6th level spell. At 15th level, the weapons all get a +3 magical bonus.

3) Cast Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon) with the Chain Spell Metamagic Feat (6th level spell). Each weapon will now deal damage as if they are Colossal Sized.

4) Cast Shrink Item with the Chain Spell Metamagic Feat (6th level spell). Put all the diminutive maces on a charm bracelet or inside a Handy Haversack (your choice).

5) During Combat, drop the bracelet to the ground so all the maces return to large size. Cast Telekenisis (5th leel spell) and hurl all 15 of the maces with the Violent Thrust maneuver. Average attack roll +17 (Base Attack +7, Enhancement +3, Intelligence +7) with 8d6+3 damage per mace. Maximum damage: 120d6+45.

Note: You'll notice that all these spells are from the Transmutation school, so a Transmuter specialist would work very well.

Do make sure that the weapons weigh 25lbs or less. GMW (both weapon and wallop) can't be chained without first being reached -- they are now 8th level spell equivalents.

Congratulations, you used two 8th level spells, a 6th level spell and 2 5th level spells to do damage. I'm fairly sure we could have put out a sun with that amount of spellpower.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, there's always Power Word: Pain. It's not broken-broken, but it's certainly broken as hell for it's level. Combine with metamagic of choice, if desired, and you can do fairly ludicrous fire and forget kills.

[HalfDragonCube]

The commoner railgun could work with the Launch spell, though it would require less people due to the fact it is ranged work and better as a messenger service.

Readied actions and the Launch Bolt spell could also be fun to watch.

[Cog]

But the Fell Drain Wightpocalypse version is generally seen to work as written (although the sphere/circle intepretation affects whether you convert all the peasants, or just those at ground level)
Nope. Any version of it that relies on Locate City and Flash Frost does not work.

This metamagic feat can be applied only to spells that have the cold descriptor and that affect an area.
Emphasis added. Locate City does nothing to affect its area, and so is ineligible for Flash Frost.

[Kansaschaser]

Do make sure that the weapons weigh 25lbs or less. GMW (both weapon and wallop) can't be chained without first being reached -- they are now 8th level spell equivalents.

Congratulations, you used two 8th level spells, a 6th level spell and 2 5th level spells to do damage. I'm fairly sure we could have put out a sun with that amount of spellpower.

Yes, they all weigh 25lbs or less. A large version of an Executioners mace is 24lbs, and that's as heavy as it gets.

I forgot about the Reach Spell part. I do this on my spellcaster (at 9th level), but I use Reach Spell Feat and Chain Spell with a Rod. By the way, Reach Spell is +1 level adjustment, so it would make Shrink Item, Greater Magic Weapon, and Greater Mighty Wallop all 7th level spells. So it's still within the 7th level requirement of the original poster.

The reason I like this combo is that it gets around spell resistance. Also, if you really wanted to make it usable all day, you could get a Ring of Telekinesis. Then you can use Telekinesis at will.

[dextercorvia]

Yes, they all weigh 25lbs or less. A large version of an Executioners mace is 24lbs, and that's as heavy as it gets.

I forgot about the Reach Spell part. I do this on my spellcaster (at 9th level), but I use Reach Spell Feat and Chain Spell with a Rod. By the way, Reach Spell is +1 level adjustment, so it would make Shrink Item, Greater Magic Weapon, and Greater Mighty Wallop all 7th level spells. So it's still within the 7th level requirement of the original poster.

The reason I like this combo is that it gets around spell resistance. Also, if you really wanted to make it usable all day, you could get a Ring of Telekinesis. Then you can use Telekinesis at will.

I'm not sure where you are getting that.


reach spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

Orb of X gets around SR, too, and can deal enough to wreck an encounter, in a much simpler fashion.

[Kansaschaser]

I'm not sure where you are getting that.

What are you not getting? I'm just a little confused. :smallfrown:

Wait, I see what you are getting at. You are right, Reach Spell is +2 level adjustment. So this would only be possible with adding Reach Spell with the feat and Chain Spell with a Rod of Chain Spell. That's what I've been doing with my Wizard, but I guess we house ruled in our game that Reach is only a +1 level adjustment.

I had to look up the feat to make sure.

[dextercorvia]

Just to be clear -- it does sound fun, just not game breaking.

[Tr011]

-Spellblade Tennis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151109).
-On the topic of destroying cities: Locate City Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8868176&postcount=27).

I like that ones. (especially the Tennis, due it's not really much OP cuz it only puts ur spells for ~13k gold in storage to use them as a free action. but would look nice with some Lightning Bolts)

[Draz74]

Greater Magic Weapon is pretty much the gold standard for spells to Chain. It is not Touch range. It does not need Reach applied to it. It cannot have Reach applied to it. :smalltongue:

Greater Mighty Wallop ... I can't look up right now, but if it's Touch range, let's just assume the character in question is an Archmage who can turn it into a ranged spell without bothering with Reach Spell. (Alternatively, there's a Rod for Reach in MIC.)

But Telekinesis and Antimagic Field are only icing on the cake of how to break the game with Shrink Item, really. Search for old threads about "creative uses of spells" or somesuch. People have come up with many, many ridiculous ways to abuse this spell. Put a giant heavy Shrunken object on a fragile platform above a walkway -- now you have a very cheap but very dangerous trap, activated via command word. And Tiamat forbid your DM ever put a statue in a dungeon that's made out of precious metals and gems, assuming that you won't be able to take it back to town and sell it because it's too big or heavy ...

[dextercorvia]

Greater Magic Weapon -- My mistake... I looked up GMWallop, and it was touch. I was thinking Magic Vestment was the not touch range one, and got it backwards. Can you use two metamagic rods on the same spell though?

Shrink Item definitely qualifies.

[Cog]

A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod’s wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.
So, one rod per spell. The price formula for the rods is pretty consistent, though, so if you wanted you could probably custom-make a multimetamagic rod at equivalent price to whatever the total adjustment is. DM discretion, of course, so I'm not recommending it for the purposes of this thread.

[Kansaschaser]

Greater Magic Weapon -- My mistake... I looked up GMWallop, and it was touch. I was thinking Magic Vestment was the not touch range one, and got it backwards. Can you use two metamagic rods on the same spell though?

Shrink Item definitely qualifies.

You can't use two Metamagic Rods for the same spell unless the Metamagic Feats are added to the same rod.

I was memorizing Greater Magic Weapon, Shrink Item, and Greater Mighty Wallop with the Reach Spell Metamagic feat applied. When I cast the spell, I then used the Rod to Chain them. So I don't use anything over a 5th level spell.

[Mr.Bookworm]

-If you include wall of iron sale, there is that weird trick where you can break a ladder into two 10 foot poles (and a bunch of leftover rungs as firewood), and sell them for a profit.

People who say this have pretty clearly never actually seen a ladder. If you break a wooden ladder apart, you get two rectangular long pieces of wood with holes in them plus a bunch of sticks. Not something you can just turn around and sell as a 10 foot pole.


The trick with Shrink item is basically this:

You make an adamantine dome or box, big enough to hide under. Then you shrink it, so you can wear it as a hat, or under your hat.

As soon as you enter an antimagic field, the dome expands and hides you. There's no line of sight to you anymore, and most things can't get through the adamantine. Therefore, you are safe until you leave the AMF.

Or, of course, you can combine it with Fly and just drop it on your enemy and deal a few thousand d6s of damage. Or just shrink a bunch of boulders if you're low on cash.

Launch Bolt (cantrip) usually combined with Shrink Item, can be used to launch Colossal bolts for some pretty ludicrous damage for the spell level.

Shivering Touch (3rd level) is already broken, but Maximize it (6th level), and have fun killing every dragon ever in the first round.

[Qwertystop]

The trick with Shrink item is basically this:

You make an adamantine dome or box, big enough to hide under. Then you shrink it, so you can wear it as a hat, or under your hat.

As soon as you enter an antimagic field, the dome expands and hides you. There's no line of sight to you anymore, and most things can't get through the adamantine. Therefore, you are safe until you leave the AMF.

But how do you get out of the AMF when you're under an adamantine dome? Also, the enemy could dig under, or just make really loud noises so you can't rest and regain spells, then keep the AMF up until you starve to death.

NOTE: anything inside the dome has magic, as the dome blocks the AMF's line of sight. Interestingly enough, this also applies to the internal organs of most creatures.

[Draz74]

Shivering Touch (3rd level) is already broken, but Maximize it (6th level), and have fun killing every dragon ever in the first round.

... assuming you can get close enough to Touch the dragon, and beat its spell resistance. And your DM doesn't rule that dragons' immunity to paralysis works even when they have Dex 0. And the dragon doesn't have the [Cold] subtype. And you don't roll a 1 on your attack roll. And by "killing" you mean "making it trivial to subsequently kill."

[cfalcon]

Rope Trick. When did we start playing a JRPG complete with Save Points?

Doesn't rope trick predate JRPGs? And save points?

[Mr.Bookworm]

... assuming you can get close enough to Touch the dragon, and beat its spell resistance.

That's when yet another probably-broken spell in the form of Assay Spell Resistance enters. And you can get close enough by teleporting or using one of the jillion speed boosters available. You don't need to survive the subsequent rounds. Or just use Archmage.


And your DM doesn't rule that dragons' immunity to paralysis works even when they have Dex 0.

That would be a truly ridiculous ruling, as you're helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless) when you have Dex 0.

Though I suppose if you're using Shivering Touch, you probably deserve what you get.


And the dragon doesn't have the [Cold] subtype.

Oh no, whatever will the poor spellcaster do, forsaken of his one and only trick capable of killing something? :smalltongue:


And you don't roll a 1 on your attack roll.

Well, yes. But so it goes with everything else.


And by "killing" you mean "making it trivial to subsequently kill."

Yes, yes I do. You can poke it to death with a stick after you do the magic Touch.

[Stallion]

... assuming you can get close enough to Touch the dragon, and beat its spell resistance. And your DM doesn't rule that dragons' immunity to paralysis works even when they have Dex 0. And the dragon doesn't have the [Cold] subtype. And you don't roll a 1 on your attack roll. And by "killing" you mean "making it trivial to subsequently kill."



All you gotta do then is use a casting of Spectral Hand and then you've got a 250 ft. range. And it isn't like Energy Substitution isn't an option, either. Dread Necromancers. Whoo!

[Draz74]

Look, nobody is saying Shivering Touch isn't overpowered. But

I'm tired of it being advertised as even better than it is, and
this thread isn't mostly about overpowered spells, it's about game-breaking spells like Shrink Item.

[gomipile]

But how do you get out of the AMF when you're under an adamantine dome? Also, the enemy could dig under, or just make really loud noises so you can't rest and regain spells, then keep the AMF up until you starve to death.

NOTE: anything inside the dome has magic, as the dome blocks the AMF's line of sight. Interestingly enough, this also applies to the internal organs of most creatures.

I thought the idea was to use the hat trick to give you the ability to teleport to safety from under the hat?

[Kansaschaser]

Here is another "game breaking" spell.

Animate Weapon

It's from the Complete Mage and it's only a 3rd level spell. It works on any spell touched.

1) Take a fallen tree and spend a few minutes turning it into a Colossal Sized Quarterstaff.

2) Shrink Quarterstaff with Shrink Item (3rd level spell).

3) Cast Greater Magic Weapon (3rd level spell) on the shrunken quarterstaff to give it a +3 bonus.

4) When combat starts, drop the regular sized quarterstaff to the ground and it turns back into the Colossal sized quarterstaff. Cast a Quickened Mighty Wallop (5th level) and Animate Weapon (3rd level).

5) You now have a Colossal Sized Quarterstaff as an animated object running around and smacking your opponents for 8d6+3 damage per hit. Oh, and a Colossal sized animated object has a +25 bonus to hit (...well, a +28 bonus with the enhancement you gave it).

Note: This is also a fun spell to use the Reach Spell+Chain Spell combo on.

[Qwertystop]

Here is another "game breaking" spell.

Animate Weapon

It's from the Complete Mage and it's only a 3rd level spell. It works on any spell touched.

1) Take a fallen tree and spend a few minutes turning it into a Colossal Sized Quarterstaff.

2) Shrink Quarterstaff with Shrink Item (3rd level spell).

3) Cast Greater Magic Weapon (3rd level spell) on the shrunken quarterstaff to give it a +3 bonus.

4) When combat starts, drop the regular sized quarterstaff to the ground and it turns back into the Colossal sized quarterstaff. Cast a Quickened Mighty Wallop (5th level) and Animate Weapon (3rd level).

5) You now have a Colossal Sized Quarterstaff as an animated object running around and smacking your opponents for 8d6+3 damage per hit. Oh, and a Colossal sized animated object has a +25 bonus to hit (...well, a +28 bonus with the enhancement you gave it).

Note: This is also a fun spell to use the Reach Spell+Chain Spell combo on.
You mean because you then have all the trees in the area turning into improvised really big greatclubs?

[gomipile]

Oh, and if you're talking about spell tricks under level 15, let's talk about the Shadowcraft Mage prestige class.

If you take 2 flaws, and gain entry as a human, you can potentially cast a spell that mimics the effect of Apocalypse From the Sky at character level 12.

Edit: or any level 9 Conjuration(Creation), Conjuration(Summoning), or Evocation spell.

[Eldariel]

Polymorph is too powerful for its level, but not really any good for breaking the campaign setting. Game-breaking stuff (according to your definition in this thread) only comes along with Polymorph Any Object, Level 15.

Well, this isn't strictly true; you can combine Polymorph with Assume Supernatural Ability to generate...well, Shapechange. Which, of course, does stupid stuff. Like generates Wishes and free spells and stuff. Overall, stupid.

Of course, the mentioned stuff works. Notably, any inherent spellcasting and such comes with Simulacrums leading to obvious abuses, Efreet can be Planar Bound with Planar Binding, etc. There's plenty of "overtly powerful" stuff of course, but they don't really break the game as such.


But how do you get out of the AMF when you're under an adamantine dome? Also, the enemy could dig under, or just make really loud noises so you can't rest and regain spells, then keep the AMF up until you starve to death.

NOTE: anything inside the dome has magic, as the dome blocks the AMF's line of sight. Interestingly enough, this also applies to the internal organs of most creatures.

Teleport out?


Shrink Item has other stupid stuff associated with it tho; you can shrink anything and throw them to AMFs/dispel them midflight and have massive boulders rain death or whatever. Much like Explosive Runes, really. Really, Shrink Item is the #1 reason you never want to have an AMF centered on you when there's a caster nearby.

[Dvandemon]

This (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Book_of_3.5e_Tricks_(3.5e_Other)) is great for any tricks. Anyone can edit it :smallsmile:

[Cog]

That would be a truly ridiculous ruling, as you're helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless) when you have Dex 0.
That's what I would have figured, so I looked it up. Surprisingly enough, Dex 0 means you're paralyzed. It's Str 0 that gets you helpless.

[SurlySeraph]

... assuming you can get close enough to Touch the dragon, and beat its spell resistance. And your DM doesn't rule that dragons' immunity to paralysis works even when they have Dex 0. And the dragon doesn't have the [Cold] subtype. And you don't roll a 1 on your attack roll. And by "killing" you mean "making it trivial to subsequently kill."

Reach Spell + Energy Substitution handles white dragons that you don't want to get in claw range of, a few things can handle the 1. Though Reach Spell does make it 8th-level and so out of the scope of this discussion.

[Mr.Bookworm]

That's what I would have figured, so I looked it up. Surprisingly enough, Dex 0 means you're paralyzed. It's Str 0 that gets you helpless.


Dexterity 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless.

Nope. All of the Ability Score 0 stat effects impose the Helpless condition.

[Endarire]

Chain Spell works on spells with a range of greater than Touch. Greater magic weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeaponGreater.htm) has a range of Close.

[Cog]

Nope. All of the Ability Score 0 stat effects impose the Helpless condition.
Dueling quotes!

A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless. A character with Dexterity 0 is paralyzed.
Edit: Presumably they're both true. The dragon would still be helpless after all.

[Aspenor]

Dueling quotes!

Edit: Presumably they're both true. The dragon would still be helpless after all.

Semantics:

Dragons have immunity to "paralysis effects." Shivering Touch is not a paralysis effect. Shivering Touch is lowers dexterity to zero, which causes paralysis but is not an effect. It is "natural" paralysis, in a sense.

Carry on.

[Draz74]

I agree with this conclusion, but I imagine it's something that some stubborn DMs would insist on houseruling, after you one-shot their dragon.

Heck, I had a fairly reasonable DM, and he still did the same thing after I one-shotted his Advanced (to ridiculous numbers of Hit Dice) Ooze with a Ray of Exhaustion. (He tried so hard to find an obscure rule somewhere that would keep me from making the beastie helpless just by imposing a -2 Dex penalty on it via fatigue ... but in the end he had to just declare he was house ruling it.)

[Aspenor]

The easiest way to cope with it as a DM is just say something like "do you really want Shivering Touch to exist? If you don't use it, we can pretend it doesn't exist. If you do use it, I will be forced to acknowledge its existence and use it myself. Keep in mind that Shivering Touch is SO GOOD that any spellcaster or spellcasting monster would be stupid not to carry it. So, if you want your character to be reduced to zero dexterity half of the time, go for it."

[Forbiddenwar]

The easiest way to cope with it as a DM is just say something like "do you really want Shivering Touch to exist? If you don't use it, we can pretend it doesn't exist. If you do use it, I will be forced to acknowledge its existence and use it myself. Keep in mind that Shivering Touch is SO GOOD that any spellcaster or spellcasting monster would be stupid not to carry it. So, if you want your character to be reduced to zero dexterity half of the time, go for it."

this. I find reminding characters that use of an ability or spell cuts both ways to be a powerful deterrent. That's why I never banned any book and yet every campaign I run is 2nd tier core or less. And I never had a campaign with psions.
Which makes me a bit sad.

[TheOasysMaster]

The easiest way to cope with it as a DM is just say something like "do you really want Shivering Touch to exist? If you don't use it, we can pretend it doesn't exist. If you do use it, I will be forced to acknowledge its existence and use it myself. Keep in mind that Shivering Touch is SO GOOD that any spellcaster or spellcasting monster would be stupid not to carry it. So, if you want your character to be reduced to zero dexterity half of the time, go for it."
I do this too...
Any cheap, broken and underhanded clever technique a PC can do, an NPC can, and will do.
Anything they do is just something I can toss back with impunity later...
:smalltongue:

This is a pretty low-level one...
But, casting Silent on a bunch of arrows make for some interesting play with wizards...

I guess more seriously...

Choose a small race like a halfling or a gnome...
Alter Self to a smaller race, fairy, which is a size smaller, and then do a Reduce Person, to stack up the size bonuses...
Then the typical Shield, Mage Armour aaaaaaaaand Stoneskin makes survival a piece of cake.
And of course, Protection from Good/Evil/Chaos/Law for fun.

[Kansaschaser]

Chain Spell works on spells with a range of greater than Touch. Greater magic weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeaponGreater.htm) has a range of Close.

That is why you memorize Greater Magic Weapon with the Reach Spell Metamagic Feat. Then when you cast Greater Magic Weapon, you use a Rod of Chain Spell.

[HalfDragonCube]

I do this too...
Any cheap, broken and underhanded clever technique a PC can do, an NPC can, and will do.
Anything they do is just something I can toss back with impunity later...
:smalltongue:

This is a pretty low-level one...
But, casting Silent on a bunch of arrows make for some interesting play with wizards...

I guess more seriously...

Choose a small race like a halfling or a gnome...
Alter Self to a smaller race, fairy, which is a size smaller, and then do a Reduce Person, to stack up the size bonuses...
Then the typical Shield, Mage Armour aaaaaaaaand Stoneskin makes survival a piece of cake.
And of course, Protection from Good/Evil/Chaos/Law for fun.

Spell that can change your size almost always do not stack.

Also, for that you should add in all of the Heart of X spells for abilities that will let you escape, take less damage and also get fortification.

[TheOasysMaster]

Spell that can change your size almost always do not stack.
Well, you start off as Small, so there's the AC Bonus for being Small...
Then going to Tiny, then Diminutive through Alter Self and Reduce Person results in a final +4 AC Bonus...
So, not stacking, just using magic to get small and get those bonuses.
:smallwink:
So, coupled with Mage Armour and Shield...
You've got yourself with a +12 Bonus
Protection from Evil grants a +2 Deflection Bonus...
Barkskin bestows an Enhancement Bonus to Natural Armor Bonuses for AC... And at 12th Level, that's a +5, assuming that they have a NAB of +0...
Displacement provides 50% Concealment...
Stoneskin provides Damage Reduction 10/adamantine...
Haste provides a +1Dodge Bonus to AC
So, by 12th Level... A Halfling or Gnome Wizard with some preparation time, can give themselves an effective Armor Class of 28, topped by an additional 50% of missing with 120 Hit Points of Damage Reduction.

And I'm sure there's way's to make it even higher...

EDIT:
Don't forget Mirror Image/Greater Mirror Image on top of your 50% miss chance. You'll almost never be hit.
This one's a little trippy...
Our 12th level caster will have 1d4+4 Mirror Images, and with Greater Mirror Image, more each round...
So at a minimum, there's a 1 in 5 chance of attacking the right target... One then must actually hit them, and then, because of Displacement, even if they 'hit' there's still a 50% chance they miss...
The Mirror Images are easier to hit, of course, but still...

[MrRigger]

Don't forget Mirror Image/Greater Mirror Image on top of your 50% miss chance. You'll almost never be hit.

MrRigger

[Silva Stormrage]

Don't forget being a shadow craft mage with their 50% miss cloak.

[Wings of Peace]

Circle Magic + Simulacrum

Beastland Ferocity + Delay Death

Otherwordly + Alter Self

[Jack_Simth]

Assume that I haven't heard of any of these before, because in more cases than not, I won't have. I have no idea how Shrink Item breaks the game unless someone explains it to me.
There's two big ones:

One is using Shrink item to abuse the Falling Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#tableDamagefromFallingObjects) rules to do massive damage to opponents.

The other is an Antimagic Field counter:
Get a lightly-constructed top hat with a thin lead outer coating big enough to hide under easily.
Cast Shrink Item on it, so it is small and light enough to be wearable.
If someone approaches you with an Antimagic Field up, the hat expands, blocking line-of-effect: leaving your buffs intact, and letting you do something like teleport away from the Antimagic Field.

There's others - like using it as seems to be intended: Transporting loot.

I'm guessing Simulacrum is with Planar Binding? Call an efreet, then just let it stew in a magic circle while you create a Simulacrum of it and then have the Simulacrum cast Wish. Is that the gist of it?Generally, yes.


Did I miss Summon Mirror Mephit?It doesn't work that way (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning):
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.(emphasis added)


The trick with Shrink item is basically this:

You make an adamantine dome or box, big enough to hide under. Then you shrink it, so you can wear it as a hat, or under your hat.

As soon as you enter an antimagic field, the dome expands and hides you. There's no line of sight to you anymore, and most things can't get through the adamantine. Therefore, you are safe until you leave the AMF.
Warning: This can go horribly, horribly wrong on your DM's whim if you're only briefly exposed to the AMF. Tell me: What happens if you're inside an adamantine box that suddenly becomes too small for you?

And that's when I, as the DM, am obliged to make something go horribly, horribly wrong. :smallamused:
That too, yes. One of the simplest ways to stop Astral Projection abuse is to use effects that don't kill. Flesh to Stone will really ruin your day if you're Astral Projecting. You can't take any actions to stop astral projecting. Your form isn't actually killed, so you don't automatically return home. And your real body is in stasis until your mind gets back....


Also, Summon Monster 7 lets you summon a Djinni. They can do Major Creation with the caveat that vegetable matter has a permanent duration. Create enough Black Lotus extract or any kind of expensive vegetable matter to fill a swimming pool. Breaks wealth by level or creates enough poison to massacre a country.
This doesn't actually work (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning):

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire - so that Permanent vegetable matter vanishes when the 1 round/level is up.

[Silva Stormrage]

I am not sure that the permanent vegetable matter would expire. It just says the spell "expires" that seems to mean that the duration ends. But its permanent. Not sure about that disappearing.

[Cog]

The trick is whether that means Duration: Permanent or not. If it's not a Duration: Instantaneous effect, then the magic is still ongoing, and will dissipate.

[Jack_Simth]

I am not sure that the permanent vegetable matter would expire. It just says the spell "expires" that seems to mean that the duration ends. But its permanent. Not sure about that disappearing.
Check Definitions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration).

Permanent:
The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.
Instant:
The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.

It is permanent. And the Permanent effect ends as soon as the Summon effect does.

[Wings of Peace]

The trick is whether that means Duration: Permanent or not. If it's not a Duration: Instantaneous effect, then the magic is still ongoing, and will dissipate.

You have that backwards. Permanent means magic will continue to sustain the effect forever. Instantaneous means that the magic was used at the time of casting the what's left is a real thing unsupported by magic.

[Cog]

You have that backwards. Permanent means magic will continue to sustain the effect forever. Instantaneous means that the magic was used at the time of casting the what's left is a real thing unsupported by magic.

You might want to reread my post. That's exactly what I said. :smallconfused:

[Wings of Peace]

You might want to reread my post. That's exactly what I said. :smallconfused:

I was just... testing you... yeah...

[NecroRick]

To contribute to the thread:
Commoner Railgun.
Put a bunch of people in a line. Hand an object to the first person. Have everybody ready an action to hand the object to the next person when it's handed to them. All of those actions take place in six seconds. With enough people, you can easily break the sound barrier (though you'd need on the order of a million to actually get close to the speed of light).


Here are some quick rules of thumb for thinking about the speed of light:

The circumference of the earth is roughly 40,000km
The speed of light in a vacuum is rioughly 300,000km/s

300/40 = 7.5

Hence, a photon can go round the (outside of the) world seven and a half times per second.

To get the speed of light in a six second turn, the package would need to go around the earth 7.5 x 6 or 45 times.

If the people are spaced 1 meter apart, then there are 1,000 per km. So you need 40,000,000 to go all the way around the world once. To go around 45 times would require 1.8 billion people. NB: most people's arms are shorter than 1 meter, so they need to be spaced closer together than 1 meter. For convenience assume a figure of approximately 3 billion people for your railgun.

Good luck :D

[Canarr]

The trick with Shrink item is basically this:

You make an adamantine dome or box, big enough to hide under. Then you shrink it, so you can wear it as a hat, or under your hat.

As soon as you enter an antimagic field, the dome expands and hides you. There's no line of sight to you anymore, and most things can't get through the adamantine. Therefore, you are safe until you leave the AMF.

That... seems a strange trick. That basically means, as soon as you hit an antimagic field, you've imprisoned yourself and taken yourself out of the fight. How do you get out from under there? Not to mention: how do you breathe? :smallconfused:

[Greymane]

And that's when I, as the DM, am obliged to make something go horribly, horribly wrong. :smallamused:

I love DMs that do this when I'm a player. In the last game I was player in, Tomb of Horrors, there was an evil Psion in there devoted to Acererererererererak. The DM was annoyed how we would always Rope Trick to safety thanks to my wizard. What does he do? He gets creative, uses some Psion power to travel through our dreams while we slept to ambush us INSIDE of my Rope Trick. It was pretty awesome. :smallamused:

To contribute to the thread... Explose Runes + Dispel Magic, as already mentioned, is amazing for perfect 10-ft cube nuclear explosions. Sans radiation even!

[Doc Roc]

Polymorph is too powerful for its level, but not really any good for breaking the campaign setting. Game-breaking stuff (according to your definition in this thread) only comes along with Polymorph Any Object, Level 15.

Disagree. There are a variety of poly tricks that are totally game-eating, though I will admit that the worst of them are just ways to jumpstart other tricks. The most significant ones, of course, are the various abuses of PaO, you are correct, but straight old polymorph should never be discounted. I will say that I think magic jar is more destructive, particularly if you allow the Guff Trick.



That... seems a strange trick. That basically means, as soon as you hit an antimagic field, you've imprisoned yourself and taken yourself out of the fight. How do you get out from under there? Not to mention: how do you breathe? :smallconfused:

I put forward the thought that if your wizard needs to breathe by the time your wizard worries about AMFs, then he is not so much of a wizard. Particularly if he has about an hour to figure out how to breathe, or teleport away. Oh.
Yes.
That's right. AMF is an emanation, you see, and thus is blocked entirely by this lovely bit of metallic couture.

Ocular Spell + Any Full-power Metamagic Mitigation + Persist + any spell is my hat in this ring.

[Canarr]

Yes.
That's right. AMF is an emanation, you see, and thus is blocked entirely by this lovely bit of metallic couture.


That... is a good point; didn't think of that. Still, I don't think I like the idea of boxing myself in like that; after all, if the guy with the AMF has any way of lifting or just tipping that adamantium box, I'd be right back in that AMF - and this time, I'd have nowhere left to go.

Not to mention, getting enough adamantium to build the fricking box in the first place...

[The Boz]

Get a huge boat anchor with a sharp end. Shrink it. Fire it from a crossbow. Dispel the Shrink Item spell by uttering a key phrase. Fortitude save or die at level 5.
Even if the DM says "No, Shrink is dispelled automatically since it hits a hard surface, and that guard's armor is definitely hard", you've still got a 500 pound iron boat anchor making someone's day miserable.

[Boci]

Get a huge boat anchor with a sharp end. Shrink it. Fire it from a crossbow. Dispel the Shrink Item spell by uttering a key phrase. Fortitude save or die at level 5.
Even if the DM says "No, Shrink is dispelled automatically since it hits a hard surface, and that guard's armor is definitely hard", you've still got a 500 pound iron boat anchor making someone's day miserable.

Which does 7d6 damage as of complete warrior's improvised weapons by weight in complete warrior. And I don't even want to begin to think of the penalties I would assign for trying to fire a shrunken anchor from a crossbow.

[Taelas]

Shrink a ballista bolt instead. Since a ballista is just a huge crossbow, it counts as a crossbow bolt.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Here are some quick rules of thumb for thinking about the speed of light:

The circumference of the earth is roughly 40,000km
The speed of light in a vacuum is rioughly 300,000km/s

300/40 = 7.5

Hence, a photon can go round the (outside of the) world seven and a half times per second.

To get the speed of light in a six second turn, the package would need to go around the earth 7.5 x 6 or 45 times.

If the people are spaced 1 meter apart, then there are 1,000 per km. So you need 40,000,000 to go all the way around the world once. To go around 45 times would require 1.8 billion people. NB: most people's arms are shorter than 1 meter, so they need to be spaced closer together than 1 meter. For convenience assume a figure of approximately 3 billion people for your railgun.

Good luck :D

The commoner railgun doesn't actually work. It requires you to selectively ignore portions of the rulebook, and arbitrarily assume that real-world physics start working right at the last second. Imagine you line up 3 billion people, you hand off a quarterstaff, and get it up to infinite speed (when you hand it off, it moves instantly to the end). It reaches the end, and then the last person drops it. It lands at their feet, because that's what happens when you drop an item in D&D.

Still lets you deliver letters instantly, but it's squarely in the "too much work" category.

[Boci]

The commoner railgun doesn't actually work. It requires you to selectively ignore portions of the rulebook, and arbitrarily assume that real-world physics start working right at the last second. Imagine you line up 3 billion people, you hand off a quarterstaff, and get it up to the speed of light. It reaches the end, and then the last person drops it. It lands at their feet, because that's what happens when you drop an item in D&D.

Still lets you deliver letters instantly, but it's squarely in the "too much work" category.

You'll be eating those words when a halfling swordsage flings you to the moon with a setting sun maneuvre having just hitched a ride on the commoner railgun.

[Qwertystop]

You'll be eating those words when a halfling swordsage flings you to the moon with a setting sun maneuvre having just hitched a ride on the commoner railgun.

No, because the rules for D&D say nothing about momentum. If you allow the passing based solely upon RAW, ignoring reality, you can't switch to reality and ignore RAW when they let go of the pole.

[Boci]

No, because the rules for D&D say nothing about momentum. If you allow the passing based solely upon RAW, ignoring reality, you can't switch to reality and ignore RAW when they let go of the pole.

Setting sun maneuvres give you a bonus to the opposed roll based on how much they move in that round.

[faceroll]

Have plane shift and teleport been mentioned yet?

The players can pretty much just go anywhere, and do anything. Any constraints that the DM has constructed in the local setting can immediately be overcome by finding help, buyers/sellers, higher level casters, new adventures, elsewhere. Of course the DM can make up those constraints forever in the universe, but then that's just dumb and the PCs roll their eyes at the rails.

[Qwertystop]

Setting sun maneuvres give you a bonus to the opposed roll based on how much they move in that round.

Let me rephrase:
There are no rules for momentum other than specific ones relating to certain abilities or situations. Also, the only vaguely relevant rules on momentum, the ones for falling damage and getting hit by falling objects, are entirely based on distance and weight, nothing about speed, and have a cap on the total, so it wouldn't do much even if you could extrapolate them.

[Boci]

Let me rephrase:
There are no rules for momentum other than specific ones relating to certain abilities or situations. Also, the only vaguely relevant rules on momentum, the ones for falling damage and getting hit by falling objects, are entirely based on distance and weight, nothing about speed, and have a cap on the total, so it wouldn't do much even if you could extrapolate them.

I'm not talking about momentum. I'm talking about an uncapped bonus to an opposed roll, the result of which determines how far you throw the target.

[faceroll]

{{scrubbed}}

[Boci]

Stuff. Wierd stuff.

Good to know. I got a couple of ideas on what exactly this means, and I could probably find out via google, but I can't be bothered, so I will just wait.

[HugeC]

Choose a small race like a halfling or a gnome...
Alter Self to a smaller race, fairy, which is a size smaller...

Doesn't work because of the first sentence of the text in Alter Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm):

You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form.

Unless there is a Tiny Humanoid race out there, which I suppose there probably is...