Let's Play: Europa Barbarorum

[Eldan]

Megas Alexandros has been dead for fifty years, and still his heirs are fighting. He strove to conquer the world, and he carried the culture of Hellas far into the east. And yet, his empire fell, and new powers are arising.


So I thought, when I play it anyway, why not do a Let's Play? I know we have a Rome one already,but this is a bit different.

What?
Europa Barbarorum is a mod for Rome: Total War that changes a lot about the game. It came about when a few historians and history students were unhappy with a game involving "Movie Egyptians" and "Hollywood barbarians", instead of what they felt were more appropriate factions, units, graphics and so on. It tries to model, as accurately as possible, what Europe might have looked like in 272 BC.

How?
Pictures and words. We'll start by letting the playground select a faction.

Who?

Let's see. There are 20 factions. Please vote for one.

Aedui One of the two great Gaulish tribes, the Aedui are fighting a great civil war against the Averni, who are rebelling against their rule. Their goal is to unite the gaulish tribes against foreign power that would conquer them.

Arche Seleukeia The largest remnant of Alexander's Empire, the Seleukids hold territory from the eastern shores of the Aegean Sea to the far Hindukusch mountains. But their grip on this huge Empire is failing, their satrapies are declaring independence, and barbarian hordes are raiding their border provinces almost unopposed.

Arverni The second large Gaulish tribe. The Arverni, lead by their god king, rebel against the weak Aedui. The Gaulish civil war is bloody and cruel, and if it is not ended soon will only lead to a Gaul that can no longer defend itself.

Baktria The easternmost satrapy of the Seleukids, Baktria is a small, but rich province at the foot of the Hindukush mountains, almost rubbing shoulders with India and Qin, sitting right on the Silk Road. As with most of Alexander's old empire, a mix of Persian and Greek culture.

Casse: On the Isles of Tin, which some call Britain, many tribes fight for dominance. The casse are one of them, who want to rule all of the isles.

Epeiros: King Pyrrhos of Epeiros, made famous by the term "Pyrrhic Victory". Wedged between the Romans and Makedon, he still wishes to be the next great conqueror, even though he has been pushed back on all his frontiers and all but lost Megale Hellas, which the Romans call Italia.

Getai: the immortal Getai are the greatest of the Thrakian tribes, north of greece, near the western shores of the black sea and along the river Danube. They will unite the tribe, push back the northern barbarians and crush the weak Greeks.

Karthadastim: Along the Northern coast of Africa, on Sicilia, Sardinia and Corsica, as well as in southern Iberia, the city of Carthago rules a mighty Empire. Legend says that they and the Romans will kill each other, but so far, the peace is still holding...

Koinon Hellenon: The old Greek cities are the cradle of civilization. Makedonian Tyranny will no longer control them. Athenai, Sparte and Rhodos have united to defend their freedom.

Lusotannan: The most powerful of the tribes of Iberia, the Lusotannan seek to unite the Iberians, so they will not be crushed between power-hungry Gauls, Romans and Karthadastim.

Makedonia: Makedon ruled the world once, and it will rule it again. The phalanxes are the most powerful and disciplined troops in the world, and no one will stand against them. They are the true heirs of Alexander.

Pahlava The Parthians, north of the Seleukid Empire, are massing their armies for war against the falling superpower. Let's see who the true barbarians are!

Pontos: A province in Anatolia, on the Southeastern shore of the Black Sea, where Persians have broken away from the Seleukids.

Ptolemaioi: The Greeks rule Egypt now. Ptolemaios was truly the greatest of Alexander's generals, and his reach now stretches all along the Nile, far into the lands of the other successors.

Romani: A small, unimportant province in Megale Hellas (they call it Italia). They call themselves a "republic" and have a lot of strange ideas on how to organize armies. Epeiros has a bit of a war with them.

Saba (or Sheba): A new and growing power in southern Arabia that may well grow to be very powerful in the future...

Saka Rauka: Nomads from the far north east, even beyond the Sauromatae, and perhaps even more powerful horsemen than they are. They have been chased out of their hunting grounds and grazelands by more powerful tribes, and they are left poor.

Sauromatae: The Scythians are come and gone, and the Sarmatians rule their lands now. The Masters of horse and bow do not fear any of these weak and civilized men.

Sweboz: There are a hundred Germanic tribes, and the Sweboz are just one of them. For now...

So. Cast your votes!

Votes:
Baktria: 0.5
Epeiros: 3
Pahlava: 2
Pontos: 0.5
Romani: 2

[Smiling Knight]

I vote for Pontus or Bactria.

[Gaius Marius]

I suggest you take up the Romani, but you behave like a proper Republic. Which means no massive war of aggression, except when you feel a rival is too dangerous for your power projection. Try to maintain the balance of power between factions, only gain new territories through defensive wars.

Although the Senate could, in dire circumstance, allow you to start a war of aggression if, for example, we feel that Carthago delenda est.

[Eldan]

Who would have thought that someone with your username would suggest Rome :smalltongue:

But noted and counted.

[Gaius Marius]

Who would have thought that someone with your username would suggest Rome :smalltongue:

But noted and counted.

Again, in the case you DO decide to play what many see as the "easy" mode of Rome : Total War, you have to behave yourself in respect of the SPQR. Otherwise, I vote against.

Rome went to early commercial interests and self-defense pacts, and accidently inherited territories to govern when they destroyed rival empires (like Carthages). You have to aim to do the exact same.

up until Caesar, Rome never did an outright war of aggression. Although I am curious as to how you wish to roleplay it all. Maybe we could take over some of your Great people to Roleplay, and you represent the 18 Centuries: who gets elected in office and who doesn't. So anybody who wish to gain a command has to be selected by the First-class electors.. which is you.

Also, in keeping with the Mos maiorum (Rome's ancestral custom) nobody should be in command of an Army before the age of 38 (Praetor), and nobody should be at the Top Position before the age of 40 (Consul). Until then, Great Men who wants to have a successful military campaign can join their seniors as Tribunes.

This might be fun :smallbiggrin:

[Eldan]

Sure, if we play Rome, we can go with that. If we play someone else, we can do it a bit less formal. I mean, if we were to end up as Baktria, we'd have one family member (IIRC) and one city.

[Gaius Marius]

Sure, if we play Rome, we can go with that. If we play someone else, we can do it a bit less formal. I mean, if we were to end up as Baktria, we'd have one family member (IIRC) and one city.

Indeed :smallbiggrin:

Although I am unfamiliar with the political structure of many of the available factions..

[Mewtarthio]

Count my vote for Epeiros.

[Folytopo]

I vote for someone in the Eastern Mediterranean that has a cool unit roster or starting position.

[Rustic Dude]

Put another vote on Phyrrus. Epeiros it is.

[Eldan]

Votes counted.


Indeed :smallbiggrin:

Although I am unfamiliar with the political structure of many of the available factions..

Well, most are monarchies of one kind or another. Tribes with chieftains are common, as are empires and kingdoms. I'll do some actual research once the faction is decided upon. Looks like Epeiros: I haven't tried them yet, so this should be interesting. (At least they aren't as huge as the Seleukids).

[Sir Dar]

Oh a lets play!I vote for rome!Romani!

Is there anything more fun then fighting off hordes of barbarians ?

[Eldan]

Being Barbarians.

Crush your enemies, and so on.

[Gaius Marius]

Now that's an idea. Is it possible to actually play the barbarian hordes?

[Eldan]

Well, there are a few more barbaric factions. The Sarmatians, as an example, start with Nomadic governments. Which mainly means that they can't build fortresses or farms and that pretty much all their troops are horse archers.

[Gaius Marius]

So.. I am thinking of something kinda like the Orc factions in Fall From Heaven 2. Is there any special gameplay difference being one of these, or it's just that you have it harder early on?

[Eldan]

Nothing like that, really. Barbarians don't just join you like they did there.

Though it should be noted that most of the "barbarian" factions are just kingdoms and tribes too small to be their own factions.

[Gaius Marius]

Nothing like that, really. Barbarians don't just join you like they did there.

Though it should be noted that most of the "barbarian" factions are just kingdoms and tribes too small to be their own factions.

Oh... Then put me down for Civilisations..

[Caustic Soda]

Woo, an EB let's play - niceness. I vote for the Pahlava. Epeiros could also be interesting, but I find the "steppe" factions more interesting, and Epeiros doesn't really need the vote.

[Athaniar]

This could be interesting. I vote for the Parthians.

[Eldan]

Votes counted.

I'll probably start this game about 24 hours from now, when I have the time for a massive infodump post.

[aberratio ictus]

Sweboz. They rock, and they are my ancestors, (while it might not be a wise decision to confess that to a Swiss person) at least as far as you can say that about anyone from that time period.

[Eldan]

Phh. It's been 2000 years. My ancestors are any out of Rhaetians (at least according to family legend), Helvetii, Alemanni or somewhere out of the Balkans. I'll be fine.

Also, starting soon. Epeiros it is.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Being Barbarians.

Crush your enemies, and so on.

That's just more overrated swill they use to try and excuse their lacking society.

I vote for one barbarian tribe or another (they're all the same) that you descend into the muck you so clearly desire*.

*This post may not be fully serious :smalltongue:


Sweboz. They rock, and they are my ancestors, (while it might not be a wise decision to confess that to a Swiss person) at least as far as you can say that about anyone from that time period.

Everyone from back then who had children who had children and so on without the family dying out is your ancestor.

Everybody of European descent is descended from Charlemagne, in one way or another.

(Still not as impressive as how widely Ghengis Khan sowed his seed, but eh, at least we had nice uniforms ...)

[Dragor]

The Romani! I just got back from a trip to Rome and I'm reading the Aeneid, so I have a historical reason behind this vote. I also back the Republican style of play (I always end up roleplaying my campaign map tactics in EB, myself...)

--EDIT--

I really should read threads fully.

*awkwardly steps out of the room*

[Dienekes]

up until Caesar, Rome never did an outright war of aggression.

That's just not true. Admittedly, they did it less though.

Anyway, how about Koinon Hellenon?

[Eldan]

I've already chosen and started to play as Epeiros. I'm actually writing the first post now.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Good. My votes were GONNA be Epeiros, or the Getai, my favourite Barbarian faction. Or Hayasdan, because they're different too.

[Eldan]

Apologies: this first post is mostly infodump. I'll make up for it later.

Chapter one: The Pretender's Throne

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Pyrrhus.JPG

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/7897/rometw2011041615500289.png

Epeiros, the Infinite.
The other Greeks call us barbarians, even though our Forefather is Neoptolemos, son of great Achilleus. It took a strong Molossian King, and a cousin of Megas Alexandros to unite us.
Pyrrhos is a great king, a true warrior. The Karthadastim called him the greatest general to ever live.
Yet the Roman Hydra was formidable. But it is the Makedonians of Antigonos who are our real enemies. We will crush this pretender to our throne and unite Greece under an epeirote crown. Then Rome will tremble, and the entire world will fall to our feet.

And here it is: the little green thing in the middle is Epeiros.
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4529/rometw2011041615463612.png

From the Game:
Epeiros, "the Mainland", the home of "wintry Dodone", the famed Molossian hounds, and, of course, Pyrrhos. The regional tribes were formed into a strong state in the fourth century BC, led by their Molossian king.
Conquests in Italy and an alliance with Roma were of little help when their great king Alexandros (not The Great) was killed in 330 BC. Now another king has unified Epeiros and had great successes pacifying the Illyrians, and in battle in Italy and Sicily. Pyrrhos held much of Southern Italy and then took control of the island of Sicily, except for two strong holds at the north and west. But he abandoned his hopes of conquering the islands, his mother's homeland, and after the defeat at the hands of a Roman consular army, he has taken his main force back to Hellas and pushed the Makedonians all the way to the coasts of the Aegean.
Pyrrhos military forces are modelled on the Successor armies of Makedon. Heavy phalanx infantry are the core, with a strong reliance upon mercenary troops, which include Gallic warbands, Kretan archers, Italiote hoplites and Tarentine cavalry and many others. Heavy successor cavalry units as well as light javelin cavalry are available, and of course heavily armoured Indian elephants, one of the most recognizable features of the army of Pyrrhos, are at your disposal, as are mechanai of Hellenic siege craft.
While your army is strong, and your position is sound, one misstep could bring your empire crashing to ground. The kingdom of Epeiros is at a crossroads. Do you double your efforts and attempt to push the Makedonians into the Aegean from their coastal possessions at Pella and Demetrias? You are already at war and have claimed the title of King of Makedonia and need only drive them from the north.
Their possessions in southern Hellas are more problematic, though. The memory of Sicily is but a fleeting dream, and it will take much effort if you are to resume your great plan to seize the entire island. Your control in southern Italy is in danger of succumbing to further aggressions of Rome, with whom you are at war, unless you act strategically to solidify your position or give up your last stronghold there. The Illyrian tribes to your north are strong and wild, but more effort in bringing them under your control could do much to strengthen your kingdom for further campaigns elsewhere and their help has brought great benefits to you in the past. Finally you have just been invited by a deposed King of Sparta to help him take control of the Peleponnese, though you are not openly hostile towards them. Seizing Thermion to the south and the wealth and prestige the Oracle of Apollo at Delphi grants should be an early goal, but do you dare to lead your army past the Makedonians in Korinthos and take on Makedon and the Spartans there as well? The choice is yours. But a word to the wise: "Stay away from Argos."

So, what does Epeiros rule?


http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8938/rometw2011041615544508.png


To the west, we see Taras, our last holding in Italia. Some few hundred soldiers (240 skirmishers, 100 Tarentine cavalry and 160 hoplites) are still holding it, but the Roman consular army is nearly at the gates and outnumbering us. They are all heavy infantry, principes, hastati and triari. The walls won't help much.

In Greece, we hold Epidamnos and Ambrakia, our capitol, and we have two armies marching against Makedonia. They have more soldiers than we do, but they are dispersed among their many southern cities, so that their capitol, Pella, is weak enough that we can take it.

First, let us see our troops and our generals.

Helenos Aikides
Third son, governor of Epidamnos, with 100 illyrian riders, 240 illyrian spearmen and 160 hoplites.
His stats:
19 years old
Command: 0, Managment 0, Influence: 0
Dull, Uncharismatic, Vigorous, Selfish, Optimistic, Loyal
His retinue:
Wise Man, Family Retainer
His traits:
Man Grown, Molossos (of the Molossian tribe), Strict Governor, Green.

Helenos, the youngest son, is Green and untalented, but thinks he can make up for it by being strict. Perhaps something will come from him, perhaps not.

Alexandros Aikides
The second son and governor of our capitol, Ambrakia. He has with him two units of Haplitoi, and one unit of Akonistai.
His stats:
21 years old
Command: 1, Managment 2, Influence: 0
Sharp, Charismatic, Vigorous, Unselfish, Optimistic, Loyal
His retinue:
Wise Man, Family Retainer
His traits:
Man Grown, Molossos (of the Molossian tribe), Good Tactician, Good Defender, Blooded (has fought in battles before), Bureaucrat, Fluent Speaker, Benevolent Governor, Family Member, Confident Troops,

Alexandros ,the second son carries a famous name, and he intends to make good on it. Both a great manager and, for his age, a talented general, he is holding his father's throne while he is waging war.

Ptolemaios Aikides
Eldest Son, heir of the Kingdom, commander of our second army, with 200 Illyrian cavalry and 480 illyrian spearmen. All mercenaries.
His stats:
25 years old
Command: 1, Managment 2, Influence: 0
Sharp, Charismatic, Vigorous, Unselfish, Optimistic, Loyal
His retinue:
Swordbearer, Family Retainer
His traits:
Mature, Molossos (of the Molossian tribe), Good Tactician, Veteran, Bureaucrat, Fluent Speaker, Brave, Feeling Poorly (a temporary trait), Benevolent ruler, Full of Himself, Firstborn, Family Member, Kleronomos Basileios (royal heir)

And, of course, Ptolemaios. The eldest and greatest of Pyrrhos' sons and commander of his mercenary armies. Brave as any hero of legend and a warrior and leader without equal. A worthy heir if there ever was one.

Pyrrhos Aikides
The King. With him 242 Pezhetairoi (medium phalanx), 400 Galatikoi Kluddolon (Galatian Swordsmen), 240 Phalangitoi Deuteroi (levy phalanx) and 240 Akontistai (javelin skirmishers).
His stats:
46 years old
Command: 5, Managment 0, Influence: 0
Sharp, Charismatic, Vigorous, Unselfish, Optimistic, Loyal
His retinue:
Swordbearer, Family Retainer
His traits:
Mature, Molossos (of the Molossian tribe), Confident Troops, Dislikes Attacking Walls.

And the kinds of troops we can recruit, starting with the poorest:

Akonistai (Hellenic Skirmishers)
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3507/rometw2011041615564325.png
Peasants and freed slaves, armed with small wooden shields, a handful of javelins, and a knife.

Sphendonetai (Hellenic Slingers)
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/255/rometw2011041616000903.png
More peasants, these with slings.

Toxotai (Hellenic Archers)
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4641/rometw2011041615572556.png
Peasants from the mountainous regions, poorly equipped, but able to use their shortbows since childhood.

Peltastai (Heavy Skirmishers)
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5112/rometw2011041615582971.png
Armed with shield, Linothorax and javelins.

Thureophoroi (Hellenic Spearmen)
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8990/rometw2011041615591667.png
Medium infantry, between skirmishers and phalanxes. With bronze helmets, linothorax, heavy javelins and a spear.


Hippakontistai (Hellenic Skirmisher Cavalry)
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2483/rometw2011041616002741.png
Armoured in padded cloth, armed with javelins and shields.

Hoplitai Haploi (Greek Levy Hoplites)
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2918/rometw2011041615555014.png
The poorest citizens of the Greek cities, armed with large shields, long spears and a linothorax.

Phalangitoi Deuteroi (Levy Phalanx)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4270/rometw2011041616005701.png
Long Pikes and heavy armour.

Hippeis (Greek Medium Cavalry)
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3220/rometw2011041616015299.png
Spoiled young nobles, with lances, shields, bronze helmets and linothorax.

Prodomoi (Successor Medium Cavalry)
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/8104/rometw2011041616021777.png
Lighter than the Hippeis and used mostly to counter skirmishers and harass flanks.

Hetairoi Aspidophoroi (Heavy Skirmisher Cavalry)
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2584/rometw2011041616024433.png
With shields, leather armour and iron-tipped javelins, they are used to soften lines before a shock cavalry charge. An epeirote specialty.

Time, then, for war. Makedon has spread it's armies thin, and it is ripe for the taking. Deciding that one attack with all our forces beats two weaker ones every day, we recalled Ptolemaios from his campaign in the south, and united our armies for a strike at the heart of Makedon and the throne the pretender has withheld from us.

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2350/rometw2011041616153751.png

We have double the Makedonians number, and more, but they have brave Greeks and strong walls, while we have barbarian mercenaries. Still, we have one secret weapon:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/654/rometw2011041616162116.png

Elephants. We, too, are successors of Alexander, and like him, we have the mighty colossi of India. They might have hoped that we would take weeks to build rams, but who needs those when he has elephants?

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7174/rometw2011041616175010.png
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1725/rometw2011041616191711.png


Our phalanges are heavily armoured and slow, and therefore, the barbarians will take the first assault at the gates. The Makedonian commander has decided to make his stand in the center of the city, instead of at the gates, and so, only skirmishers await us here.
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6501/rometw2011041616192372.png
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7100/rometw2011041616200430.png
They are peasants and Makedonian cowards, and soon fall before Illyrian spear and Gallatian sword.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2940/rometw2011041616203949.png

The peasants tried to make a stand on a square in the eastern half of the city, but between mercenaries:
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8480/rometw2011041616212654.png

and elephants:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5411/rometw2011041616222261.png
they stand no chance.

But now begins the real battle: phalanx
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7937/rometw2011041616240678.png

against phalanx:

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3426/rometw2011041616253303.png
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7093/rometw2011041616265313.png

The pride and backbone of the Makedonian army, ready to show us why twenty feet of Makedonian pike are feared throughout the world.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3484/rometw2011041616264529.png
Even javelins can barely scratch them, so we decided to let the barbarians, now in the phalanges' back, loop back around to take them in the rear, while our own phalanges and cavalry would assault their front.

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8639/rometw2011041616281409.png
The Makedonian prince and his cavalry bodyguard made a last attempt to stop our troops before they reached the battle line, but we outnumbered them five men to one at this point, and brave Epeirotes all and so the cavalry, and the Makedonian crown prince, Alkynoeus Argeades, fell into the dust before the hooves of Pyrrhos' own horse.

From here on, there was only one thing to do. Crush the Makedonian phalanx from both sides:
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4963/rometw2011041616305362.png

And Pellas, and the seat of the Makedonian kings for centuries, is ours, with barely a hundred men lost, and most of those barbarians and peasants.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/2778/rometw2011041616325447.png



So, I bring you two questions, wise oracle of the playground:

Should we make a stand in Taras or abandon Italia for now? We can send support from the garrisons of our greek cities before they can try and assault the walls, try and crush them from two sides. But even then, their troops will be better trained and equipped, and the numbers will be close.

And how should we govern the lands we conquer? Should we give them relative freedom, or should we make their lands our own? If we do the first, we can use their troops in war, if we don't, we'll be able to train our own in their lands.

[Dienekes]

-2000 gold for holding Taras doesn't seem worth it, and if you're going for early conquests I don't really think fighting a two-front war will end up well. I say leave it for now, you can regain your losses later.

Also your people need elbow room, make the land your own.

[Rustic Dude]

Try to sell Taras to the Romans and make peace with them. We've got more urgent matters to attend. Say, take all of Makedon as the true heir of Alexander.

Also, getting some Deuteroi and Thureophoroi would be nice if those elephants don't take all our money the next turn. It would also help to take our army at Taras and take them to the homeland. And then scuttle all our ships, they are a huge money sink.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Take out the Makedones and Greeks, then return to Italy. Take as close to personal rule of all of Macedonia and Greece as you can. It is, after all, YOUR land! Italy, you can have more sway. Like, the south take personal rule, Rome make a puppet, the others make either type II or III governments.

[Sir Dar]

It came to me in a dream o great leader!Give up on Italy for now and destroy these who stand in your way of showing the world you're the true heir of Alexander the great.Make greece yours and then the world will soon fall before your might,just as Alexander did.!With greece under your banner make the land yours,so we may train our own men.Once you return to italy,let the people have there freedom,the roman infantry could come in handy.

[Flickerdart]

Give up Italy - you can take it back when you come from the north, having conquered all those lands.

[Caustic Soda]

Give up on Italy. It'd distract you from conquering the Macedonians and Greece proper. I also support going for personal rule of your conquest so far as possible, with the caveat that you probably need to focus on your economy first. Those elephants are expensive.

[Coidzor]

Abandon Italy, use your boats and the garrison from Italy to conquer tiny islands in the Mediterranean that are basically undefended, like Crete and Rhodes?

[Eldan]

Chapter 2: Diplomacy by the same means as before


"...and so, great Consul Lucius Cornelius Scipio, King Pyrrhos is willing to..."
"Make this quick, yes? War leaves little time for niceties towards the likes of you!"
Ambassador Silanos swallowed, nervously.
"Very well. King Pyrrhos will surrender Taras to you, in exchange for a ceasefire and right of way for the epeirote garrison to retreat to the coast."
Scipio laughed in the ambassador's face.
"Rome will take Taras and slaughter every Epeirote inside it's walls. We don't need a ceasefire."
The ambassador blinked, surprised.
"Well, King Pyrrhos would also be willing to send you, personally, and the Senate, valuable gifts worth at least 1000 Mnai..."
Scipio shook his head.
"No. You know, as well as we do that, Taras is a cesspit that's costing you more money than that every season. If Rome takes it, it will be on principle, and not for a ceasefire. Go, this audience is over."

While the negotiations with Rome failed in the perhaps most spectacular manner short of having the Ambassador sent back in several bags, it was at least comforting to hear that the other Diadochoi did no better:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8074/rometw2011041820262347.png

The Arche Seleukeia was in pieces. It was good to see that "the Victor"'s empire didn't fare too well: the seleucids would still be serious rivals in the race for Alexander's empire.

To find out how the Makedonians were faring, what armies they had standing and how their cities were defended, a young man called Adamatas Dodonaios was sent south into their territory.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8629/rometw2011041820242941.png

From his reports, it soon became clear that this would be easier than we had at first thought: while they had two armies in the field, Athenai and Sparte were strongly resisting, and their new capitol, Korinthos (home of a hastily relocated court), was all but undefended.

Moving south, we waited through the summer for reinforcements from Epidamnos, Hoplites and more Illyrian mercenaries, to arrive, along with new recruits.

However, there was one problem:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4164/rometw2011041820255875.png

Epeiros was, for now, bankrupt. For whatever reason, the Romans refused to capture or even properly besiege Taras, and that city continued costing us more money every month.
Between that and several new projects, such as fortifying the streets, pacifying our new conquests and hiring recruits, there was simply no gold left in our treasuries.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4013/rometw2011041820302316.png
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/8679/rometw2011041820261952.png

Meanwhile, our fleet of four warships curved around Greece to approach the Makedonian territory, and their fleet, from the east. However, after three encounters with the Makedonian fleet, all technically won, they weren't left with enough soldiers and had to retreat.
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5788/rometw2011041820284427.png

In Autumn, Phyrrhos had finally gathered all his troops and was ready to move on to Demetrias, the next Makedonian city.
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9991/rometw2011041820310674.png
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/5846/rometw2011041820272734.png


Next chapter and the battle for Demetrias is coming up later, my internet is slow and refuses to upload the pictures.

[Coidzor]

What faction is Thermon? Is that the rebel flag for this mod? I'm guessing Sparte and Athenai are part of the Koinon Hellenon...

[Eldan]

Thermon is independent, yes. There's actually no one rebel flag, different rebel provinces get different flags.

Sparta, Athens and Rhodes are the Greek League (the mod uses more authentic names for most things, such as Koinon Hellenon here). They are currently neutral to us, and at war with Makedonia.

[Coidzor]

Leaving Thermon for later then, after you've dealt with Makedon?

[Dienekes]

Or wait until they both exhaust each other, or ally with the Greeks to take on Makedon, and see if you can leave the most heavy fighting to them. Easy way to advance yourself while weakening potential rivals.

[Caustic Soda]

I'd say leave Thermon for now, crush the Macedonians on the mainland and then go for the KH if you feel you can take them. OTOH, if you have an army capable of taking Thermon and feel confident in fighting both at once, go for it. You'll probably end up at war with the KH as soon as you get a border anyways, knowing the AI. On the subject of Taras, would it be too gamey to sell off the building s there? that would at least help recoup some of the expenses so far. Also, isn't the seemingly vast expenses of Taras mostly because the city gets to bear the lion's share of your troop expenses? IIRC, those elephants cost 3500 mnai per turn :smalleek:

[Shovah]

Also, isn't the seemingly vast expenses of Taras mostly because the city gets to bear the lion's share of your troop expenses? IIRC, those elephants cost 3500 mnai per turn :smalleek:


As far as I can see, that is infact the problem.

A city doesn't tend to use up money. They produce money based on a number of factors, and then your armies upkeep is spread out among them (based on population, as far as I know), meaning that unless your large cities are economically developed, they'll probably look like they're producing far less than smaller ones due to receiving a higher proportion of the army upkeep.

[Eldan]

I'm aware of that, of course. But even when I play as the Romans, Taras somehow always seems to end up losing money, even on high taxes with a lot of economy buildings. So, I'm just roleplaying it a bit.

[Shovah]

Fair enough, then.

And even though it may lead to an economy hit, it probably is a good idea to leave it for now because a 2-front fight will just slow your expansion, so..
Back to where we were, then.

[Eldan]

I am leaving it. But for some reason, the Romans are just camping a bit. Not laying siege to it.

[Shovah]

Have you got the troops away from it doing some good elsewhere?

If not, consider disbanding them? (could think of at least a couple reasons for troops leaving a hopeless situation, roleplay wise)

If so, I'd be pretty happy about that.

I'm assuming that after army upkeep costs, it's making at least a little bit of money? (if not.. lots of unrest I guess?)
If so, even if it looks terrible, holding it will keep you going a little bit stronger.

[Eldan]

For now, I'm just keeping my troops in there. It's three units, and not expensive ones. So, it's not that bad. I'll probably have to start raising taxes, though (they are currently as high as they go while still allowing some pop growth).

[Eldan]

Chapter 3: The Pretender's Brood


And so, our army stood before the gates of Demetrias.
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7941/rometw2011041820311881.png

The numbers, at least, looked good, we outnumbered them by a sizeable margin, but they had walls and well-trained troops where we had mercenaries and cavalry, which would be of little use when trying to storm narrow gaps against phalanxes.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1150/rometw2011041820343266.png

We marched against them in the same formation as before, the elephants - both siege engines and bow towers - in the front, followed by the more mobile mercenaries and skirmishers, then the phalanges, cavalry in the flanks.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9605/rometw2011041820353599.png

This prince, at least, was smarter than the last, as he moved his phalanx to defend the gates, instead of letting them stand in an open square to be easily surrounded.

Faced by a single, well-defended gate, we took it upon ourselves to improve that situation: a second breach in the wall, near the now shattered gates.
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1792/rometw2011041820442122.png

What followed was a long, drawn-out and chaotic struggle:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3606/rometw2011041820464157.png

With the help of elephants and mercenary cavalry, the Makedonians medium infantry on our left flank was soon utterly slaughtered, and not even a charge by the Makedonian prince and his heavy bodyguard cavalry could save them.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6329/rometw2011041820503971.png
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1985/rometw2011041820500359.png
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5143/rometw2011041820554035.png

Another one of the Pretender's brood sent to Hades.

Meanwhile, on the right flank, the skirmishers stood their ground to crush the Makedonian cavalry between themselves and the Galatian swordsmen.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/286/rometw2011041820550082.png

Thus surrounded, the Makedonian phalanx still resisted, but eventually fell.
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7465/rometw2011041820553547.png
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/691/rometw2011041820555523.png

From then on, there was only token resistance stopping us from reaching the central square, light Makedonian cavalry throwing javelins to little effect.
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7356/rometw2011041820570880.png

However, the central square was defended by a second phalanx, which had not joined the earlier battle and was still ready to fight.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2764/rometw2011041820574977.png

Still, a phalanx on open ground, ready to be surrounded, will eventually fall.
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5254/rometw2011041821031870.png
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2108/rometw2011041821045214.png

And so, Demetrias, the Province of Thessalia and the oracle of Delphi are ours, though at a heavy cost:
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/147/rometw2011041821064815.png

700 men, though mostly peasants and barbarians, and 3 almost irreplaceable elephants lie dead on the ground.