PDA

View Full Version : The Penalty of Sucess



BiblioRook
2011-04-14, 01:08 PM
When it comes to table-top games I have a tendency to roll well, almost unusually so. Granted, I probably roll quite as well as I or the people I play with actually think, but it's the way with these things to over-empathize them whenever they happen and give them the illusion of happening more frequently.

For some reason, this also frustrates DMs.

Some system/game explanation
At this point I would like to point out that the current game I'm in is a d12 system where the max ranks you could put into anything is 4; however you can still buy into the skill, just any points you spend buys you extra dice instead in that you roll all of them and pick the highest (needless to say, increasing the odds of a critical success). This game also has an in-game ranking of who the main character is based on nothing more then how man points one bought into a certain single skill.
My character ended up with a few more points them most due to an unexpected but legitimate loophole, so I joked about what my DM would say if I maxed out the 'main character' points. My character is a bird, my DM wasn't thrilled at this idea (this might have been my first warning). I didn't do it, but what I did do instead was max out most of my skills (and by max out I mean added anywhere from 2-5 extra dice to the roll, so regardless what I did I would probably do it very well).

So the game I'm in is a pseudo-super hero game that puts an empathis on silliness. While I have really good stats, I basically had to sacrifice having any actual 'super hero' abilities to do so (My character is a girl-detective with a bird 'animal companion', I make no illusions I consider the bird to be my actual character). The DM picked this system for a reason because she loves elaborating on goofy things players try to do, expessially accidentally due to misses and fumbles. Because of my tendency to roll fairly well (and due to the multiple safeguards against rolling poorly), I not only don't tend to have many moments of utter failure but ultimately accomplish what it is I set out to do.

Last night's game however I was doing so well even for me and it got to the point I was basically being blocked from action by the DM due to my high frequency of high rolls and crits. She would ether 'delay' responding to whatever I tried to do ( often making me reroll due to the time that passed saying she needed to see it to be sure or 'didn't remember' the original roll (despite me not touching my dice since)), pretend she didn't hear me, or outright override my action all together. She said it was because she didn't want me overshadowing the 'main characters' of the story, despite not ever actually doing things that would 'steal glory' I guess you can say.
One such example I actually critted, but the other person did so as well; but despite my full ranks in the skill she opted that the opposing roll won. It wasn't for anything major and I was just goofing around so I didn't want to make a big deal about it, but still it was annoying.

Strangely enough, this sort of thing happens alot with games I'm in. I always figure that my DMs must think I'm cheating or fudging my rolls... but I'm not! I also realize that in the current game I'm in she might see 'consistent success' being boring and not along the lines of the goofy game she was hoping for, but honestly what does she expect from a game that has built-in rerolls?

Telonius
2011-04-14, 01:29 PM
Do you always use the same set of dice when you roll? It's possible that you got a cocked die without realizing it. (A bit off-weight from the factory direct to you). A bit of experimentation with a few sets of dice could confirm this.

The re-rolls will definitely have an effect as well. Make sure the DM knows a bit about the stats involved before they start penalizing left and right. Still, there are some people that the dice just seem to love, and it's hard to handle it as a DM sometimes. Normally I would just go with it as a DM. If (after I'd verified there's nothing funky going on with the dice or the rolling style) the player continues to get success roll after success roll, I would probably start working that into the plot. The character involved gets a reputation for luck, or being blessed by Olidammara, or the Fates, or "The Lady" or whatever equivalent the setting had.

Lemunde
2011-04-14, 01:42 PM
If you're rolling well, you're rolling well. It's the GM's responsibility to factor that into the campaign.

BiblioRook
2011-04-14, 01:42 PM
Oh, she's well aware of my stats as we joked about how 'over-powered' my bird was before we started playing, but it apparently became less funny when he turned out to be the only competent member of the party. As well as I was rolling, it was almost like I was leaching the luck of the person next to me as she fumbled almost as often as I critted.

As for the dice, I've had this set for a fair bit now, but I have to be honest when I say it's literally the first time I've ever used the d12, so who knows?
Testing: 12, 7, 10, 11, 2, 3, 10, 10, 9, 5... :smallsigh:

Tyndmyr
2011-04-14, 01:51 PM
A lot of people underestimate the statistical power of throwing lots of dice and grabbing the best. I play 7th Sea a lot, which has a similar system, and one of the best ways to handle any situation is ensure you have lots of dice to throw at it.

It's probably less a matter of luck, and more a factor of other players trading off a lot of this ability for other things. Such is life. Your GM should not penalize you in out of game fashion for taking a build, if it was permitted.

I advise that to avoid rerolls, you state your action, and wait until you have your GMs attention before rolling. It might slow the game down a bit, but if she's forcing you to reroll anyhow, no real difference.

Oracle_Hunter
2011-04-14, 01:53 PM
Last night's game however I was doing so well even for me and it got to the point I was basically being blocked from action by the DM due to my high frequency of high rolls and crits. She would ether 'delay' responding to whatever I tried to do ( often making me reroll due to the time that passed saying she needed to see it to be sure or 'didn't remember' the original roll (despite me not touching my dice since)), pretend she didn't hear me, or outright override my action all together. She said it was because she didn't want me overshadowing the 'main characters' of the story, despite not ever actually doing things that would 'steal glory' I guess you can say.
This is bad form from the DM. You need to speak with her and ask her what's up.

If she thinks you're cheating, then you can offer to roll dice in a cup or some other method. If she thinks your dice are crooked, then you can offer to roll dice she likes. In any case, this passive-aggressive crap needs to stop here and now.

If it's something else - like that you just "win" all the time - then you just need to point out that that's just the way games are played. If you're hot, you're hot. If it's really a problem for the DM - and you want to still play with this DM - then have her roll some of your checks. It's less fun for you, but it should at least calm her down a bit.

BiblioRook
2011-04-14, 01:57 PM
The rerolling isn't as bad as just not being allowed to do anything, I'm basically being told I'm a secondary player simply because the other players provide more interesting results.

It kinda feels like I have two options; roll well and be ignored or roll poorly and get to participate. :smallmad:

Oracle_Hunter
2011-04-14, 02:02 PM
The rerolling isn't as bad as just not being allowed to do anything, I'm basically being told I'm a secondary player simply because the other players provide more interesting results.

It kinda feels like I have two options; roll well and be ignored or roll poorly and get to participate. :smallmad:
Exactly. Which is why you need to talk with your DM and find out what the deal is.

She is doing you a disservice as a DM here. You need to find out what her problem is and how to fix it. If offering to roll from a cup, to use different dice, and even letting her make rolls for you is not enough to get her to change her ways, leave the game.

IMHO, removing Player Autonomy in this fashion is a High Crime against Gaming, and must be stopped :smallannoyed:

erikun
2011-04-14, 02:06 PM
Then I'd recommend stating your action as well before rolling. She can't ignore your great success if she has already focused the story on your character.

Have you tried precision dice? The (typically) clear ones with sharp edges? A lot of other dice, especially the ones that get polished for rounder edges, are no longer evenly distributed and will frequently roll some numbers over others. I've found that my precision dice are noticably less "lucky" than my others, and I pull them out whenever my usual dice seem to be acting "funny".

If you've been maximizing your dice pools, then it is little wonder you're so successful in your speciality. It is far easier to roll a success or a "critical" in a dice pool of 5 than a dice pool of 4. And if that is the case, then you DM should be encouraged to allow other players to shine with their own traits and specialities, rather than have every encounter be combat with mooks standing around the guy with a katana skill of 8.

Are you playing JadeClaw, by chance? Because it does sound similar, except for the super-hero thing.

BiblioRook
2011-04-14, 02:22 PM
The game I'm playing is Cartoon Action Hour, it's literally geared to be a Saturday Morning Super Hero show RPG

Telonius
2011-04-14, 03:47 PM
Testing: 12, 7, 10, 11, 2, 3, 10, 10, 9, 5... :smallsigh:

Really small sample, but that's 7.9 average - d12's average should be 6.5. I know this would be really annoying, but roll it a couple hundred times and note the results. If it's averaging more than 6.5 after (let's say) 200 rolls you probably have a cocked die. Some of the "stats wizards" here could probably tell you exactly how many times you'd need to know with a 95% degree of confidence, or how to do a chi square test for it if you want to get really specific, but I'd guess 200 ought to be something close to "good enough."

Morghen
2011-04-14, 08:28 PM
Regardless of my dice, if that scenario plays out with me it means we're finding a new GM.

That is complete hogwash and you shouldn't tolerate it.