Your Exalted Houserules

[Kobold-Bard]

Simple question: what are your houserules for making Exalted run more smoothly?

Does anyone have anything they do to make Sorcery "better"?

Thanks in advance,
K-B

Edit: Sorcery needing to be better is an opinion based on a box I saw online explaining that it is completely pants. If that's wrong feel free to ignore that request.

[TheCountAlucard]

Does anyone have anything they do to make Sorcery "better"?Well, the option I used was to allow them to gain a free spell of the appropriate Circle when they initiate into a Circle of Sorcery. :smallsmile:

[golentan]

Well, the option I used was to allow them to gain a free spell of the appropriate Circle when they initiate into a Circle of Sorcery. :smallsmile:

I use this. I also do Craft as one skill that requires specialties for specific purposes (I.E. Magitech, Fire, Water) which seems to relatively common.

[Tavar]

Sorcery; free counter magic spell when you learn the initiation charm. No other changes, though, so it's still not that good.

Also, give out a number of free ox body charms(or equivalent) to characters, so they're not quite as flimsy. Also give out some extra excellencies, so that you can have a bit more charm diversity.

[Lochar]

Number of 0 levels equal to essence.
Number of Ox-Bodies for free equal to stamina. May not purchase the Charm.
Craft is all one, specialties open each field.
Free excellencies equal to your caste number of abilities. (Yozi are one, Solars are five, etc.)
4 and 5 dot armors in Core are 3 dot.
Each sorcery/necromancy charm gives a single spell of it's level.

There's a few more, but they're usually game specific.

[MickJay]

In the Terrestrials game I'm playing, all excellencies are free. No "XP tax", as the ST put it.

[SurlySeraph]

Edit: Sorcery needing to be better is an opinion based on a box I saw online explaining that it is completely pants. If that's wrong feel free to ignore that request.

The direct combat spells are pants, because you're spending 12+ motes (and several actions, if you're using higher-circle spells) to do something that strong opponents will perfect away. Demon of the First Circle and buff spells and such can be very good.
I'm currently working on a build that tries to be a good combat sorcerer; well, actually a necromancer. A No Moon, taking the Key of Mastery hearthstone (which reduces the cost of a chosen spell by twice your Essence), and using his anima power to the max. He's currently set up to spam Flesh-Sloughing Wave for 2m per casting.

[Choco]

No perfect attacks/defenses. The DM implemented this because in the game he played in before, every single fight eventually became nothing but both sides trading perfect attacks and defenses (using the exact same 5-ish charm combos) until someone ran out of motes. Basically the same fight day after day, you can imagine how that kinda got old. To make up for this, you don't get 1-hit killed unless you were doing something really stupid at the time.

Honestly I like this rule, it forces you to use more than just your 1 ubercharm combo every round.

[Tavar]

Wouldn't that just mean it's a 2 hits till you die?

[Choco]

Wouldn't that just mean it's a 2 hits till you die?

It's basically just like "normal" Exalted, but taking out the insanely boring step of spending 2 hours repeating the same combos till someone runs out of essence :smalltongue:.

That, and it actually adds value to other ways of defending yourself, such as re-establishing stealth/surprise, boosting soak to insane levels, boosting DV's, using other non-perfect damage negating/reducing charms, etc.

[Tavar]

There's a huge value in that already. Largely because perfect attacks are incredibly inefficient(all that I know of cost at least 1wp to use, and if you want to use a defense charm as well that means minium of 2 wp).

[Choco]

There's a huge value in that already. Largely because perfect attacks are incredibly inefficient(all that I know of cost at least 1wp to use, and if you want to use a defense charm as well that means minium of 2 wp).

Apparently, eventually no one used perfect attacks anyway, cause they would just be perfect defended against the same as any of your other, cheaper attacks. But if you are going to remove perfect defenses, it makes sense to remove the attacks too else no one would ever do anything but those.

P.S., it is awesome that someone else out there is a fan of The General. Usually everyone I talk to has never heard of it...

[Indon]

-No "Dying" health levels. If something drops you past your last -4 HL, you are unconscious and at the brink of death regardless of how much extra damage you took. If you can be finished off or healed from there, everything's fine, and you don't need to worry about bleeding out or anything like that unless the game enters dramatic time while you're still KO'ed. This rule only applies to supernatural creatures - mortals still get instagibbed.

-I mostly don't play social combat, and just hack social combat charms into a skill-based social system instead. Even with the need to improvise a wide variety of charm effects, it still saves time.

Edit:
-No penalty to not having dice for an ability roll.

[Teln]

Exalts already get to ignore the -2 penalty for not having dots in an ability.

[Kylarra]

I give the free ox-body technique, 1 spell for the initiation charm +half cost if they want to buy a second with bp at creation and a free excellency. I also implement the branching combos system.

[Choco]

-I mostly don't play social combat, and just hack social combat charms into a skill-based social system instead. Even with the need to improvise a wide variety of charm effects, it still saves time.

I still keep trying to convince my DM to do that. That is one thing that never sat well with me with Exalted (and one reason I havent played it until recently), the "undodgeable" social attacks that basically dictate someone changing your character's mind simply because you don't have a good retort. I have never seen it work that way in real life, more often then not when one person gets argued into a corner they just dig their heels in and start mudslinging and/or getting physically violent (basically the people who's minds are made up no matter what you say or what "facts" you present them with).

If anything I will try to convince him to get rid of undodgeable social attacks for that very reason, to represent a character just blowing off the person speaking.

[Tavar]

That'd be represented by spending willpower to resist, or by going into physical combat(ie, getting physical). Plus, most undogdeable attacks are unnatural, are they not? So it wouldn't exactly follow normal rules.

For me, the big problem with taking away perfect effects is that the difference between Celestial/Terrestial exalts just shrank noticeably, as well as significantly changing the balance of power in the setting(non-exalts just got significantly more powerful).

[TheCountAlucard]

I still keep trying to convince my DM to do that. That is one thing that never sat well with me with Exalted (and one reason I havent played it until recently), the "undodgeable" social attacks that basically dictate someone changing your character's mind simply because you don't have a good retort...No, that's the unblockable social attacks. "Dodging" a social/mental attack is the equivalent of ignoring it; "parrying" is what you do when you retort/argue against it, et cetera.


I have never seen it work that way in real lifeSeeing how magic purportedly doesn't exist in our world, I'm unsurprised that you've never seen an undodgeable/unblockable social attack in real life. Funny old world, isn't it?


more often then not when one person gets argued into a corner they just dig their heels in and start mudslinging and/or getting physically violent (basically the people who's minds are made up no matter what you say or what "facts" you present them with).That's because after spending 2wp against natural mental influence, you're effectively "immune" to that attacker's attempts at natural mental influence.

As for unnatural mental influence, I'm banking on the fact that you also haven't seen that in real life, either.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'd like to know how people think the Exalted defeated the Primordials without perfect defenses.

[Drascin]

That's because after spending 2wp against natural mental influence, you're effectively "immune" to that attacker's attempts at natural mental influence.

As for unnatural mental influence, I'm banking on the fact that you also haven't seen that in real life, either.

The problem is mostly the ease of just stunting something else (any stunt allows you to attack willpower again) and eating willpower like it was candy. In fact, in Exalted, the absolute best way to convince someone is to talk about something completely unrelated for a while and then when they're completely exhaused of hearing you, telling them what you actually want to convince them of. Somehow, I don't think rethoric works like that :smalltongue:.

And your only options are to either run away or bash the dude's head open, neither of which are very attractive in many situations :smallwink:

[TheCountAlucard]

Somehow, I don't think rethoric works like that.Actually, I've seen this done quite often, though not exactly in that fashion. It's actually pretty effective. You also gotta remember, people aren't always going to spend Willpower to resist the same things. :smalltongue:


And your only options are to either run away or bash the dude's head open, neither of which are very attractive in many situationsWhat else are you gonna do, honestly? Your options are quite limited, really.

On that note, here are a few others...

You can turn around, plug your ears, and go, "Nyah, nyah, nyah, I'm not listening!" :smalltongue: Seriously, being unable to see/hear someone whose social attacks rely on that makes you effectively immune.

By dint of that, falling asleep works, too. :smallbiggrin:

[Choco]

No, that's the unblockable social attacks. "Dodging" a social/mental attack is the equivalent of ignoring it; "parrying" is what you do when you retort/argue against it, et cetera.

That is what I was talking about. I am fine with viewing dodging as ignoring the person, but then they bust out their undodgeable attacks which basically force you to counter their argument or believe what they say (AKA using your parry).


Seeing how magic purportedly doesn't exist in our world, I'm unsurprised that you've never seen an undodgeable/unblockable social attack in real life. Funny old world, isn't it?

If it is actual magical influence then yes I agree with you. But when part of trying to simulate actual real life politicking you are sometimes forced to believe what you can't counter-argue at the time just seems wrong. Once again if every single undodgeable/unblockable social attack is of the unnatural variety then that makes sense.


That's because after spending 2wp against natural mental influence, you're effectively "immune" to that attacker's attempts at natural mental influence.

Is there really a way to spend 2wp to be completely immune to that person's mental influence for the duration of a whole scene? If that's the case then I take back what I said and I can live with that. I was under the impression that you have to spend 1wp against EACH SOCIAL ATTACK that passes your relevant defense.

Now that I think about it though, unless you are the diplomat of the group (and thus the person built around social combat the way the violent types are built around physical) you should almost always have the option of getting offended and storming out of the room the first time someone makes you spend a point of WP.

[Lochar]

That is what I was talking about. I am fine with viewing dodging as ignoring the person, but then they bust out their undodgeable attacks which basically force you to counter their argument or believe what they say (AKA using your parry).


Undodgable I'm fairly certain is tagged with either UMI, or has a Compulsion on it. You're using magic to force them, you've left the realm of trying to naturally bring them around.

[Choco]

Undodgable I'm fairly certain is tagged with either UMI, or has a Compulsion on it. You're using magic to force them, you've left the realm of trying to naturally bring them around.

Ah OK then, I can live with it. I am coming from playing mostly D&D 3.x, so it mostly feels weird that not only are there so many more ways to lose control of your character but it is expected the DM will use them much more often (as opposed to 3.x, where they discourage using things that take the player's control over their character away for any extended period of time). For me I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it.

[stainboy]

On social combat: Have you guys run into a "social turtling" strategy, where characters built for combat or investigation just refuse to talk to anyone for fear they might pick up dice? I'm asking, I don't have much Exalted experience and it was all 1e.

[TheCountAlucard]

On social combat: Have you guys run into a "social turtling" strategy, where characters built for combat or investigation just refuse to talk to anyone for fear they might pick up dice?I haven't, anyway... even the most skilled socialites usually end up doing nothing more than making the combat guy spend a Willpower or two (or in my case, kicking off Elusive Dream Defense), after which he spends his turn rolling Join Battle. :smallamused:

[Choco]

I haven't, anyway... even the most skilled socialites usually end up doing nothing more than making the combat guy spend a Willpower or two (or in my case, kicking off Elusive Dream Defense), after which he spends his turn rolling Join Battle. :smallamused:

That's about what I am planning TBH. Give the guy a warning or 2 to stop it, before forcing him to :smalltongue:

Or in case I am absolutely forbidden by the group and/or other circumstances from making a scene, I am lucky that my char has some regeneration abilities. I just need to find a way to discretely stab out my eardrums.

And topic tax:

Another house rule is we get one free Ox Body for each point of essence we have. Basically our supernatural energy is supplementing our physical survivability.

[TheCountAlucard]

Or in case I am absolutely forbidden by the group and/or other circumstances from making a scene, I am lucky that my char has some regeneration abilities. I just need to find a way to discretely stab out my eardrums.Or just deliberately plug your ears, or leave. :smalltongue:

[Kobold-Bard]

People seem to have quite similar ones, forming a general "foundation" set, which seem pretty good. Thanks much.

re: Sorcery. What are people's suggestions there? Would making the actions uninterruptable be better? Perhaps make it all a single action rather than multiple for higher tier spells? Some sort of Occult roll to reduce the cost of the spells? Make it so only Charms can't affect them since they're lesser magic? Some combination of these or others?

I may seem like I'm fixating on this but Sorcery seems so cool and it annoys me that it apparently doesn't deliver.

[Ranos]

Huh ? I like sorcery. Not really good when you need something to use RIGHT NOW, but it expands your options a lot.
I'm not exactly an exalted guru though, what's wrong with it ?

[SurlySeraph]

People seem to have quite similar ones, forming a general "foundation" set, which seem pretty good. Thanks much.

re: Sorcery. What are people's suggestions there? Would making the actions uninterruptable be better? Perhaps make it all a single action rather than multiple for higher tier spells? Some sort of Occult roll to reduce the cost of the spells? Make it so only Charms can't affect them since they're lesser magic? Some combination of these or others?

I may seem like I'm fixating on this but Sorcery seems so cool and it annoys me that it apparently doesn't deliver.

Sorcery's only bad because a) The initiation charm is a waste of a charm (often houseruled to give you one free spell when you take it), and b) the combat spells are hideously inefficient in mote-attrition combat. For summoning, travel, Invincible Skin of Bronze, etc., it's useful, and even the combat spells are good in mass combat.

Occult roll to reduce the cost of the spells, or just rule that combat spells are cheaper, is decent; making the higher tier spells not take multiple actions to cast is necessary if you want to use them in non-mass combat; and you can do a bit to cheapen them on your own, though it pretty much requires that you be a No Moon.

[Kobold-Bard]

Huh ? I like sorcery. Not really good when you need something to use RIGHT NOW, but it expands your options a lot.
I'm not exactly an exalted guru though, what's wrong with it ?

I'm led to believe it's some combination of; too costly, too slow & too easily defeated. I recall seeing something that said something to the effect of "unless it's summoning or transport, it's just not worth it".

Again though, all my knowledge is theoretical and from the internet so it could be exaggeration, in which case feel free to ignore me.

[Kylarra]

In terms of direct [non-mass] combat, sorcery tends to be less than awe-inspiring, due to the awesomeness of the charms you already have which are generally cheaper and easier to use, it's the out of combat tricks that make it all worthwhile.

[tonberrian]

Sorcery also gets you killed if you use it in combat. The main method of defending yourself is actively using charms, and Shape Sorcery (or their Necromancy equivalents) prevent you from doing that.

Aside from mid-combat sorcery, which has a number of issues, sorcery is pretty great, if an inefficient use of experience. Also, sorcery errata has been promised (though repeatedly pushed back), and everybody's waiting for that.

[Ranos]

Sorcery also gets you killed if you use it in combat. The main method of defending yourself is actively using charms, and Shape Sorcery (or their Necromancy equivalents) prevent you from doing that.

Wait, why is that ? If you're right, we've been playing it wrong.

[Kobold-Bard]

Wait, why is that ? If you're right, we've been playing it wrong.


SHAPE SORCERY (GENERAL RULES)

Characters use sorcery actions to enact sorcerous rituals. This action type lets the character shape a single spell that he knows.

Shaping a spell takes the character out of active participation in a battle—he may operate on combat time, but he cannot focus on or react to events. He cannot use Charms or Combos, including reflexive Charms. He cannot take voluntary reflexive actions, such as speech, Move or Dash. He can benefit from the established effects of ongoing or permanent Charms, and he can—as a special exception to the rule on reflexive actions— activate his anima.

High death rate is the other thing I've seen warnings about, forgot that one.

[tonberrian]

If you're right

I'm always right. Except when I'm wrong.

Page 251 of core, under "Shape Sorcery (General Rules)": "He cannot use Charms or Combos, including reflexive Charms."

For Necromancy, see the Black Treastise, page 6, under "Necromancy Actions": "Just like Shape Sorcery actions, Shape Necromancy actions make a character immobile and prevent him from using Charms or Combos, though he can still benefit from persistent effects."

[Ranos]

Man. That sucks. Hopefully my DM will houserule the hell out of this, because that would make me very dead, very fast.

[Teln]

Personally, I'd let sorcerers use reflexive Charms during the Shape and Cast actions, subject to normal usage restrictions (only one Charm activation per action unless you're a Dragon-Blood). Needless to say, spells won't count as Charm activations.

[Kobold-Bard]

Thoughts on these for Sorcery houserules? I'm very aware these could be utter crap, in which case feel free to say so.

All spells are a single Shape Sorcery action: (Speed 6, Varies). Whilst shaping a spell they may move but not talk & may activate reflexive charms (though they must still roll to maintain the action when distracted).

- Terrestrial Spells: DV -2
- Celestial Spells: DV -4
- Solar Spells: DV -6

The Cast Sorcery action is Speed 0, and as part of it the Sorcerer may roll her Occult and reduce the cost of the spell by 1m per success to a minimum of 1/2 it's Essence cost, or by 1 willpower for 3 successes. 10's count for double.
The Sorcerer may use Charms to modify this roll, but the Essence spent on such Charms do not count as part of the 1/2 Essence cost minimum.

As a more complex manifestation of Essence, Charms have difficulty defending against or defeating spells. Any Charm that interacts with a spell (but not a Sorcerer shaping a spell); either defending against it, actively targeting a spell, etc. costs additional motes depending on the circle of the spell.

- Terrestrial Spells: +4m
- Celestial Spells: +7m
- Solar Spells: +10m, 1wp

For the purpose of these rules Sorcery = Necromancy, and it's corresponding Circles of spells.

[Tavar]

This might be good. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195337)

[Indon]

As a more complex manifestation of Essence, Charms have difficulty defending against or defeating spells. But I have no idea how to go about this, any suggestions?

Add a surcharge to charms when they are directly opposing a spell's effect. Maybe 3 motes for Terrestrial, 7 motes for Celestial, and 10 motes and 1 WP for Solar spells.

[Lochar]

This might be good. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195337)

Yeah, I was about to post that too.

Sorcery in combat has many issues. If you really want to use it as written, take the followers background and convince them to always use Defend Other actions on you. Don't be surprised when they die eating attacks meant for you.

[Tavar]

Yeah, I was about to post that too.

Sorcery in combat has many issues. If you really want to use it as written, take the followers background and convince them to always use Defend Other actions on you. Don't be surprised when they die eating attacks meant for you.

Technically, the attacker gets to decide who the attack damages, so that wouldn't matter. Plus, I think every exalt has some massive flurry charm.

[Kobold-Bard]

This might be good. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195337)

Ooh, I like this. I'll admit I'm quite lazy though so unless GD does the rest of the spells themself I probably wouldn't use it.


Add a surcharge to charms when they are directly opposing a spell's effect. Maybe 3 motes for Terrestrial, 7 motes for Celestial, and 10 motes and 1 WP for Solar spells.

Hmm, I like this.

[GryffonDurime]

Ooh, I like this. I'll admit I'm quite lazy though so unless GD does the rest of the spells themself I probably wouldn't use it.


There's more already written. I was just hoping to see some feedback before I decided whether or not to finish up my soul-wrenching endeavour.

[SurlySeraph]

@Kobold-Bard: Looks good. Can Excellencies be applied to the Occult roll to reduce the cost?


Technically, the attacker gets to decide who the attack damages, so that wouldn't matter. Plus, I think every exalt has some massive flurry charm.

Yes it does; if the attacker overcomes the defender's PDV, he still needs to have enough successes left over after that to overcome your DV if he wants to hit you instead of the defender. And having more people defending you adds +1 each. Followers 1 to get 5 people, take elite soldiers, and you effectively have +12 to your DVs when they're defending you. It's usually more efficient to kill the followers first than to find a way to get 12 more successes on every single attack than you'd otherwise need. (Though perfect attacks work easily enough. But if you're fighting someone with perfect attacks, well, we told you using Sorcery in combat against Celestial Exalts was a bad idea).

[Kobold-Bard]

@Kobold-Bard: Looks good. Can Excellencies be applied to the Occult roll to reduce the cost?

...

I suppose so, but since they cost Essence wouldn't that defeat the purpose of reducing the cost of the spell?

[The_Snark]

Ordinarily yes, but if you have Infinite Mastery of Occult up then you could use the Excellency at a reduced cost/for free. Which isn't a bad thing, necessarily; you spend an action and commit 20 motes to reduce the cost of all your spells by 5m each (assuming the Second Excellency), in addition to whatever you can roll. Potentially useful, but not a gamebreaker.

[Kobold-Bard]

There's more already written. I was just hoping to see some feedback before I decided whether or not to finish up my soul-wrenching endeavour.

Well as an Exalted enthusiast I'll say it looks good. However as an Exalted newb I'm afraid I can't give any real feedback, having no basis for comparison.


Ordinarily yes, but if you have Infinite Mastery of Occult up then you could use the Excellency at a reduced cost/for free. Which isn't a bad thing, necessarily; you spend an action and commit 20 motes to reduce the cost of all your spells by 5m each (assuming the Second Excellency), in addition to whatever you can roll. Potentially useful, but not a gamebreaker.

Fair enough, added.

[Reynard]

Huh ? I like sorcery. Not really good when you need something to use RIGHT NOW, but it expands your options a lot.
I'm not exactly an exalted guru though, what's wrong with it ?

People keep trying use it in combat, is what's wrong with it.