Wizard AC

[BillyBobJoe]

So I'm playing a 20th level Wizard 5/ Master Specialist 10/ Archmage 5 who intensely specializes in Abjuration. I'm wondering what spells/metamagic I can use to pump my AC, as this is my first time playing a caster at 20th level. Some suggestions?

[holywhippet]

Contingency: I take physical damage - stoneskin.

At that kind of level you might want to forget about AC to a certain extent. Most things you will be facing will have a high enough BAB that you really can't stop a direct attack roll. Better to focus on preventing any attack from getting through by other means. Things like greater invisibility, blink, wall of force etc. can be used to either reduce your chances of getting attacked or stop something from getting at you.

[Lateral]

Yeah, AC isn't really effective anymore at that level. Invest in miss chance instead.

[BladeofOblivion]

Yeah, AC isn't really effective anymore at that level. Invest in miss chance instead.

As an addendum to this, Mirror Image is a very awesome spell at low level. So is Shatter, for getting rid of pesky Wands, Spell Components, etc.

[Lateral]

Greater mirror image is great even at higher levels, too. I think it's in SpC.

[holywhippet]

BTW, at level 20 you likely need to be a lot more paranoid about what might get thrown at you. Make sure you have some kind of method of true seeing active at all times (item most likely since you can't make it permanent). Keep a time stop spell readied at all times just in case you run into an "oh, crap" scenario.

[Jack Zander]

I disagree with the whole AC doesn't matter idea. High AC probably won't be enough to stop a normal attack, true. However, many monsters and almost all humanoids will have power attack, and a higher AC means less points your enemies can put into power attack means less damage to you.

That said, it is still a great idea to not fall back on AC and look to miss chances, invisibility, mirror image, battlefield control and the like instead.

[faceroll]

Most stuff that offers miss chance can be seen through with something like True Sight, unfortunately, and anything real dangerous at level 20 will likely have True Sight, or a way to determine which is the real you from amongst Mirror Images.

An alternative to Stoneskin is using Statue. It lasts for hours/level, and as a free action you can turn into a granite statue and back again. You gain Hardness 8, which is better than the DR of Stoneskin.

Starmantle Cloak, from BoED lets you make a DC15 reflex save to halve the damage from almost any source. A bit borked, but there you go.

[gorfnab]

If you change your build to incorporate 5 levels of Abjurant Champion you would end up with Luminous Armor Greater at +13 Armor bonus to AC
and Shield at a +9 Shield bonus to AC.

[Eldariel]

Eh, you can get some AC from:
- Shapechange
-...that's about all you need. I suppose you can stack on Greater Luminous Armor [BoED], Shield (or Greater) & some Deflection & NA bonuses but seriously, you can get mid-50s AC with just Shapechange.

The thing about AC on casters is, AC is cheap. You don't need to go through lots of effort to get lots of AC, so might as well. It's not worth it; anything that tries to attack you physically probably isn't capable of locating you or attacking you anyways.

Anything that can't teleport cannot follow you, anything that can't see invisibles can't see you, anything that cannot dispel magic cannot hurt you. Contingency, Instant Refuge and Contingent Spells should be your primary defenses alongside Foresight and Celerity [PHBII]. Always Acting First is a good first principle. Then just spells to prevent the opponent from doing the same. And the usual wards; Mind Blanks, Heart of X [Complete Mage], Battlemagic Perception [Heroes of Battle], Anticipate Teleport [Spell Compendium], the works.

[John Campbell]

Contingency: I take physical damage - stoneskin.
I wouldn't waste my contingency on that. At that level, anything that's relying on mere physical damage is going to be doing so much of it that knocking 10 points off won't make any real difference, and is pretty likely to be swinging an adamantine beatstick in any case. And stoneskin's a 10 min/level spell, anyway. If you really want it, you can probably cast it beforehand.

The last high-level Wizard I played used contingency to trigger ray deflection. I was a lot more concerned about what other casters could do with no-save ranged touch attacks than I was about taking physical damage.

[Geigan]

Contingency: celerity, if you are attacked. Nothing beats it for defenses as it pretty much makes you liable to stop or negate whatever is trying to hurt you. Insert time stop and you win.

But as for ac, not being in a position to be hit works best. Ac is cheap at that level, but it's also typically ineffective. Keep trouble on the otherside of a wall of force, or better yet occupied with your Melee fighters.

[Tyndmyr]

I disagree with the whole AC doesn't matter idea. High AC probably won't be enough to stop a normal attack, true. However, many monsters and almost all humanoids will have power attack, and a higher AC means less points your enemies can put into power attack means less damage to you.

That said, it is still a great idea to not fall back on AC and look to miss chances, invisibility, mirror image, battlefield control and the like instead.

If you're taking damage, you're already likely in trouble. Wizards don't make great hp tanks.

That said, the normal answers are Shield spell and varients for shield bonuses. Mage armor, greater mage armor, or luminous armor for armor bonuses. Protection from good/evil/law/chaos for another +2, and more importantly, immunity from mind affecting and summoned creatures of that type. There's various other types as well, and indirect methods such as Cat's Grace for another 2 from dex.

Toss on the four Heart of X spells to negate crits. Seriously, if you take melee crits without mitigation, it's game over.

Also in Comp Mage is Ironguard, which allows you to ignore metal weapons. I highly recommend it.

[Eldariel]

Also in Comp Mage is Ironguard, which allows you to ignore metal weapons. I highly recommend it.

Spell Compendium.

[ericgrau]

You can always work on touch AC and at 700,000 gp to blow you can always spend 50k or so on cheap AC overall and still get a halfway decent amount. Get the regular items, greater mage armor, extended stoneskin for 400 minutes of DR, extended alter self for 6 natural armor (but as non-touch might not even be worth looking like a monster), quickened miss chance spells (don't waste a round on them), ring of shield maybe and well... there's not much else since you're not a cleric or druid. You may have to lean on items mostly for actual AC.

[Bakkan]

To add a little bit to the alternatives-to-AC discussion: Friendly Fire, from Exemplars of Evil, is a persistable spell if you have metamagic reducers or a 10th-level spell slot that makes you immune to all ranged attacks and lets you redirect them at other nearby targets.

[herrhauptmann]

Might I suggest a smoking weapon? +1 enhancement from Lords of darkness. Free miss chances. I'm away from books right now, but I'd swear it's 50%.
Your +1 smoking dagger will cost you a pittance at level 20, but give you a decent level of protection. If you were a gish, I'd suggest placing it on your armor spikes so as to not take up space on your weapon.

Regarding contingency:
Sat in on a high level game. Wasn't super optimized with god wizards and uberchargers and everything else, but still high level. Party walking through town, a kid throws a rock at the wizard, and cuts his forehead (nat 20), and hte wizard disappears.
Party stops and freaks out. "He's throwing rocks of disintegration! Get'em!" Kill the kid. And the guards. And most of the town.
2 minutes (game minutes) later, the wizard reappears. "Sorry guys, my contingency teleported me away when that rock hit. Took me a minute to find a teleport scroll and come back.... Guys, what happened?"

[holywhippet]

I wouldn't waste my contingency on that. At that level, anything that's relying on mere physical damage is going to be doing so much of it that knocking 10 points off won't make any real difference, and is pretty likely to be swinging an adamantine beatstick in any case. And stoneskin's a 10 min/level spell, anyway. If you really want it, you can probably cast it beforehand.

Depends on the situation, I mainly suggested it for scenarios like several dozen archers popping out of cover and opening fire on your wizard. The stoneskin contingency is just to help make sure you survive the surprise round. There might be better spells you could attach to the contingecy spell, it's really just for dealing with unexpected attacks.

[herrhauptmann]

Depends on the situation, I mainly suggested it for scenarios like several dozen archers popping out of cover and opening fire on your wizard. The stoneskin contingency is just to help make sure you survive the surprise round. There might be better spells you could attach to the contingecy spell, it's really just for dealing with unexpected attacks.

Why not improved invisibility?
Surprise round consisting of archers, Stoneskin would be fine. Surprise round consisting of a few giants turning you into paste, stoneskin wouldn't matter much. But, a contingent improved invisibility would activate after you survive that first successful attack, and give all the other attacks coming your way miss chances.

[Tyndmyr]

I'm generally a fan of a contingent teleport. Doesn't matter what the attack is, if you're no longer in the target area.

Word it carefully.

[Jack Zander]

Why not improved invisibility?
Surprise round consisting of archers, Stoneskin would be fine. Surprise round consisting of a few giants turning you into paste, stoneskin wouldn't matter much. But, a contingent improved invisibility would activate after you survive that first successful attack, and give all the other attacks coming your way miss chances.

Still not good enough. Contingent "Celerity" or "Dimension Door" are the only two spells you'll really ever want. Trigger: I say the magic word, "Alakazam"

[Eldariel]

Still not good enough. Contingent "Celerity" or "Dimension Door" are the only two spells you'll really ever want. Trigger: I say the magic word, "Alakazam"

Resilient Sphere (or some other effect that blocks line of effect) isn't terrible. Celerity has the drawback of losing the turn unless you have Favor of the Martyr up or some such, and teleports can be blocked by some spells so they're not 100% reliable. They are, however, safer when they work.

[holywhippet]

Resilient Sphere (or some other effect that blocks line of effect) isn't terrible. Celerity has the drawback of losing the turn unless you have Favor of the Martyr up or some such, and teleports can be blocked by some spells so they're not 100% reliable. They are, however, safer when they work.

Doesn't that block your spells from working though? AFAIK it would be like putting yourself in a prison with no way to participate in the battle until you break free.


Why not improved invisibility?
A nasty (or realistic DM) would rule that all the arrows are en route when the first one hits and the invisibility kicks in. In that case, there would be no miss chance.

[Eldariel]

Doesn't that block your spells from working though? AFAIK it would be like putting yourself in a prison with no way to participate in the battle until you break free.

*shrug* Only as long as you so desire. If you need to cast some buff or something, it works; when you're ready, just dismiss it. Or Dispel the whatever Dimensional Lock that's 'causing trouble and then TP away. Or something of the sort. Yeah, it does isolate you for the next round or so but that's not the end of the world, really. Prismatic Sphere would, of course, be a tad more one-sided but at the same time unfortunately level 9 and thus not eligible for the default Contingency.

[Jack Zander]

Celerity has the drawback of losing the turn

Who cares if you lose the turn when you can use your current turn to either teleport away or throw up a sphere? Now you have the advantage of having a contingency that allows you to choose whichever spell you need for the situation, and it doesn't have to have a level limit either! Also, if you cast time stop for some such then you don't care about the lost turn.

[faceroll]

By level 20, invisibility and mirror image aren't going to keep you safe except from things that aren't really a threat. I recommend Superior Invisibility, as only True Sight breaks it, and True Sight has a range out to 120'. You can potentially stay far enough away (except in dungeons) such that things won't see you.

Natural armor is pretty handy, as scintillating scales turns it into a deflection bonus. Using Shapechange + bite of X + scintillating scales = HUGE deflection bonus.

Entropic Shield (Clr 1) is kinda neat, as it gives a non-concealment 20% miss chance. It gives you a 20% miss chance vs. any ranged attacks, including hulking hurler boulders, orbs, rays, and arrows.


Who cares if you lose the turn when you can use your current turn to either teleport away or throw up a sphere? Now you have the advantage of having a contingency that allows you to choose whichever spell you need for the situation, and it doesn't have to have a level limit either! Also, if you cast time stop for some such then you don't care about the lost turn.

If you're facing a real threat, you'll probably lose 5 turns. 1 for celerity, 1 to get back, and another 3 as you wait for anticipate teleport to let you through.

5 rounds of combat on your party members, without you there, is pretty much the entire combat. Losing 5 rounds of buff time is going to put you at a distinct disadvantage.

[Jack Zander]

5 rounds of combat on your party members, without you there, is pretty much the entire combat. Losing 5 rounds of buff time is going to put you at a distinct disadvantage.

So you miss out on 1 combat that would have gotten you killed. So what?

[herrhauptmann]

And the party is also missing a significant portion of their strength. If we're playing at this level of a game, chances are they're not relying on you to do blasting.
They're expecting summoning, battlefield control, buffing/debuffing. And you're not there to do it. Doesn't sound like a "So what" situation to me.

[faceroll]

So you miss out on 1 combat that would have gotten you killed. So what?

So anytime someone goes "boo", you puss out and lose. That's what.

[Darth Stabber]

Celerity is a far better contingency than teleport, since contingent celerity is contingent any other spell you have immediate access to, or anything else you can do in one turn. 9/10ths of the time the spell is going to be Time Stop, but sometimes you can end a fight with one 8th or lower spell, so you don't have to waste the 9.

At lvl20, as stated before, AC is past it's usefulness. Even those that live in melee don't care about it, seriously look at an ubercharger's AC. Armor at high levels exists to carry enchantments. After lvl 12-16 my fighter types switch to leather, so they can still move full speed. Miss chance is way better, so you are far better off just finding a way to get a huge miss chance past trueseeing, that is a far more useful application of resources.

[faceroll]

Celerity is a far better contingency than teleport, since contingent celerity is contingent any other spell you have immediate access to, or anything else you can do in one turn. 9/10ths of the time the spell is going to be Time Stop, but sometimes you can end a fight with one 8th or lower spell, so you don't have to waste the 9.

At lvl20, as stated before, AC is past it's usefulness. Even those that live in melee don't care about it, seriously look at an ubercharger's AC. Armor at high levels exists to carry enchantments. After lvl 12-16 my fighter types switch to leather, so they can still move full speed. Miss chance is way better, so you are far better off just finding a way to get a huge miss chance past trueseeing, that is a far more useful application of resources.

Actually, if you really pump AC (raging lolth touched half minotaur arctic dwarf FoF/Deepwarden or Gloura ascetic mage sublime chord), it becomes extraordinarily difficult to hit you, even as a shapechanged lantern archon firing quickened true strike'd rays.

[ericgrau]

*shrug* Only as long as you so desire. If you need to cast some buff or something, it works; when you're ready, just dismiss it.
Dismissing is a precious standard action you can't afford in a serious fight unless this is a solo adventure. I'd save resilient sphere for when near death, such as "whenever I am unable to act or my ability to absorb damage (HP) goes below 1/4". Then you can spend the rest of the fight chugging potions or safely standing paralyzed or maybe heal up and dismiss if the fight goes long.