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View Full Version : Council of Thieves Conundrum (SPOILERS!)



Archpaladin Zousha
2011-04-14, 08:54 PM
Currently I've been running Pathfinder's popular adventure path "Council of Thieves" on another forum. So far things have been going well, but I'm wondering just what to do once the players have reached the official "end." As that adventure path ends around level 13 or so, there's still plenty of room to continue, and my players have indicated that they would like to do so.

Here's the basic premise, given how things have been going:

The city of Westcrown has fallen from grace hard after the god Aroden's death, House Thrune's rise to power and Cheliax's slow slide into damnation. The PC's start out by joining a group of concerned citizens who are working to make the city a better place, primarily by removing the curse that causes shadowy monsters to stalk the streets at night. As they advance, the PC's uncover a literally diabolical plot being hatched by the tiefling son of Mammon to take over the titular Council and the city.

Once the official material for the campaign ends, the PCs have foiled the Drovenge siblings and essentially the government hands Westcrown over to them to keep them pacified (so they don't start a rebellion). Thing is, that is EXACTLY what the PC's want to do once given the reins of the city. They plan on provoking House Thrune to war and drawing on neighbors like Andoran as an ally to help topple them. Already, however, the House of Thrune has issues of its own. Lately, the devils seem to be getting restless. In the capital of Egorian, a plot was recently uncovered where a devil was essentially creating a legion of tiefling bastards in all of Cheliax's ruling families who would cede control of the nation to Hell once they come of age and into power. The situation in Westcrown was also a blatant move for Hell to seize literal power in Cheliax by proxy. It seems that the devils are trying to maneuver things so that they take House Thrune out of the picture and alter the deal so they're the ones calling the shots.

I'm not quite sure how to deal with the main elephant in the room though, Asmodeus. Should he be aware of these attempts to undermine House Thrune and their bargain with him?

If so, that means the Church of Asmodeus, which is Cheliax's state religion and heavily entrenched in the bureaucracy, is going to need to be eliminated to truly win, and that will not only be a difficult task in and of itself, as they've had decades to prepare for such an eventuality, but there's also the fact that this means the PC's will effectively have to wipe out the entire government and start from scratch. This will require a long, drawn-out civil war that will cause a lot of unrest and chaos, which every Chelaxian fears, and is why they turned to diabolism in the first place.

If Asmodeus isn't involved in the recent attempts by devils to undermine Cheliax, then it means there's other problems that need to be addressed. First and foremost, as the master of Hell and the creator of the Laws that all devilkind obey, how exactly would he not be aware of this insubordination. I could see it in the case of a minor devil but the events in Westcrown are engineered by one of his Archdevils, and one has to assume he keeps tabs on at least those guys, since they answer directly to him. Also, what will the Church of Asmodeus do in such an event? Will they be willing to work with the PCs as the House of Thrune's negligence has allowed these plans to take place? Would they support House Thrune to the end, in which case they'd need to be completely eliminated as per the previous scenario? Would the PCs even WANT the Church of Asmodeus' help?

Ultimately I see the PCs as heading down a very dangerous course. Even though they'll be flush from their greatest victory, and at least one of them has been making plans for this kind of war since the beginning, they're basically starting the Golarion equivalent of World War II. How do I run this war, being the GM? I want them to feel like they've made a major difference, but I seriously think that starting a civil war would end the game on a low note because they'll certainly lose people, they'll have to completely tear down the old order and then build a new one up from scratch, and honestly, they may die of old age long before they finish what they've set in motion.

Tiki Snakes
2011-04-14, 09:20 PM
I skimmed 90% of the above post, will read properly later, but the phrase about it being like WW2 and them possibly not living long enough to see it to conclusion caught my eye;

Game of Succession. You keep the passage of time loose, and when their characters get to a certain age, you switch them over to their own decendants, and carry on the saga of their family lines. This would allow them to not only have a long-lasting effect on things, but actually plot out an ongoing dynasty/legacy.

Just an idea, based hazily on something a DM I know was planning to run.

Archpaladin Zousha
2011-04-14, 11:05 PM
The problem with that is that this would be the tail-end of the campaign. The timeframe in the campaign proper is over the course of maybe a few months or so, and in that time they go from level 1 to 13.

Part of the issue is that Council of Thieves is a very local adventure path. Most, if not all, the action takes place within a single city, Westcrown. The idea of this war suddenly shifts the focus to a nationwide struggle, or even involving multiple nations. The shift in focus might be a little more jarring. Honestly, a whole new campaign could be made just about this war with new characters, instead of just having the PCs reach the apex of their glory before the war even really starts.

EDIT: Upon telling my PC's the things I've said here, their ardor for war seems to have cooled significantly.