Wild Speculation/Spoilers: The Elves are Coming! The Elves are Coming!!!

[Geordnet]

Tarquin: "No! ... That would just encourage the elves or someone to attack us." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html)

Lizard Ambassidor: "I have sensitive information for [the Emperess of Blood's] ear-holes only." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0754.html)

Map showing the position of Reptilia relative to the three puppet empires and the Elven Lands. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html)


I think that an elven army is about to pour along the coast, because the elves have somehow caught wind of what Tarquin's been doing. Tarquin doesn't know this, because the ambassidor took it straight to the figurehead who'll probably only remember it when elven insurgents are beating down the door.

EDIT: Or maybe they'll only send one squad; yeah, that sounds more reasonable. It might even be the same squad from Azure City.

[Thanatosia]

I doubt it, just because they are already getting embroiled in the Azure City Liberation movement. It's not completely impossible, but I just don't see any reason for the Elves to feel the need to open up 2 fronts of conflict suddenly like that.

EDIT: Or maybe they'll only send one squad; yeah, that sounds more reasonable. It might even be the same squad from Azure City.
That makes even less sense to me then your main post. Why would they suddenly call back task force Peregrin from an active point of conflict to handle a slow simmering secret empire plot that has been brewing for decades now. Even if the Elves just found out about Tarquins schemes, there's really nothing changing in his plans that we've seen thus far to make him a sudden and immediate threat to the elves.

[Geordnet]

So? If you found out that some tyrant next door was slowly building up an empire that poses a very real threat to you in the future, whether near or 20 years down the line, (remember, that's still a short time for elves) wouldn't you do at least a little bit to stop him? A single squad of assassins seems like a very force-appropriate response to a still-growing threat.

Besides, how do the elves know for sure that Tarquin really intends to stop at the barren part of the continent? Provided, of course, that he actually does...

[PirateMonk]

The lizard ambassador's line certainly seems like foreshadowing, but this doesn't feel like the sort of thing the elves would do.

[Gift Jeraff]

Seems like a reasonable idea, though I don't think it would be the same teams in Azure City. (On a related note, I had this idea that the Elven Lands were responsible for forming the coalition which took down Tarquin's first empire. Maybe Team Peregrine did something special there and were promoted.)

[SPoD]

So? If you found out that some tyrant next door was slowly building up an empire that poses a very real threat to you in the future, whether near or 20 years down the line, (remember, that's still a short time for elves) wouldn't you do at least a little bit to stop him?

That depends, am I projected to live for 500+ years? Yes? Then no. It will keep until the other war is done.

[t209]

Oh well, I thought it will end like massive slave revolution across the western continent which will be ruled by benevolent "elected" autocrat.

[Randomguy]

Perhaps a more likely elven attack might relate to Vaarsuvius:

Check the 9th panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0754.html) and the 5th panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0775.html). (In the second link nothing is mentioned, but the elf is clearly glaring at Vaarsuvius.) Anyone else think that's forshadowing?

[ThePhantasm]

I love how this thread is labeled "Spoilers" and then the supposed "Spoiler" is in the title. :smallamused:

Its a paradox!! :smallbiggrin:

[Mr. Snuggles]

I think that an elven army is about to pour along the coast, because the elves have somehow caught wind of what Tarquin's been doing. Tarquin doesn't know this, because the ambassidor took it straight to the figurehead who'll probably only remember it when elven insurgents are beating down the door.

EDIT: Or maybe they'll only send one squad; yeah, that sounds more reasonable. It might even be the same squad from Azure City.

Spoilers: you keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
For you dummies out there, it means that YOU HIDE YOUR SPOILERS WITH SPOILER TAGS. Jesus H. Christ, is this so hard?

[Ancalagon]

Despite the talk about Spoilers: I have not yet found one in this thread or the title. ;)

[King of Nowhere]

I assumed the reptilian ambassador wanted to talk about the fall of the free city of doom

[martianmister]

Damn it! I was reading strip 666. :smallannoyed: Thanks for spoilers you dummy, you spoiled it for me! :smallmad:

[Tass]

Spoilers: you keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
For you dummies out there, it means that YOU HIDE YOUR SPOILERS WITH SPOILER TAGS. Jesus H. Christ, is this so hard?

It says spoiler in the title. Therefore we do not need to use tags in the thread as the whole thread should be avoided by people who wants to avoid spoilers.


Despite the talk about Spoilers: I have not yet found one in this thread or the title. ;)

I agree. But spoilers means something else in GitP than in other places.

[Morquard]

That makes even less sense to me then your main post. Why would they suddenly call back task force Peregrin from an active point of conflict to handle a slow simmering secret empire plot that has been brewing for decades now. Even if the Elves just found out about Tarquins schemes, there's really nothing changing in his plans that we've seen thus far to make him a sudden and immediate threat to the elves.

Oh I can explain that. The "suddenly" part anyway, not the Tem Preregrin part, I doubt that.

The elves have known since the beginning 20 years ago, what is going on, they have some really smart people. I mean if Ian could figure it out with his apperent Int score of 13, then so can they.
But as we all know, elves take everything a bit slower than humans, so it took them this long to actually do something. The first few years they've waited, thinking that maybe someone else solves the problem. When that seemed more and more unlikely, they called a meeting to discuss the issue. After it started on really short notice only 2 years later, they spend the next couple of months greeting each other and going over the agenda. After carefully evaluating the evidence provided - it took longer than planned, as the empires kept changing when they weren't looking for a moment, and so did the evidence - they came to the unanimous conclusion that something had to be done, a laughable 20 years after the problem has first been discovered.

[Ancalagon]

I agree. But spoilers means something else in GitP than in other places.

It does not anymore. "Back then" Rich asked us to put speculation in spoilers so he would not be tempted to change the story because someone guessed right.
He said "a while ago" that was not necessary anymore as he does not read the entire board anymore due to time issues and that the story stands, so nothing someone here writes would have an impact on the story, and therefore, the speculation-spoilers are not needed anymore.

At least I remember it this way. ;)

[martianmister]

Why would elves care about Tarquin? That area is ruled by tyrants for hundred years before.

[Morquard]

Why would elves care about Tarquin? That area is ruled by tyrants for hundred years before.
You did actually read Tarquin's explanation why they would if they knew, yes?

[Nimrod's Son]

At least I remember it this way. ;)
Pretty much:


I have never altered the plot based on anyone guessing it, no matter what people want to think. What happens is that I feel an urge to change it, and then have to fight that urge. It mildly annoys me for the rest of the day, especially if it's something that's supposed to be a big secret. But the poorly-worded FAQ entry, in an attempt to keep people from claiming that I used their ideas, instead fostered this notion that I cannot bear for anything I write to anything less than 100% unique and unexpected. Which the "spoiler" rule then exasperated.

[...]

At any rate, there is zero chance of the plot changing based on anything anyone writes here anymore, so if this rule hasn't been officially repealed, we'll do so shortly.

[Valley]

Oh I can explain that. The "suddenly" part anyway, not the Tem Preregrin part, I doubt that.

(Lots of very interesting stuff deleted) they came to the unanimous conclusion that something had to be done, a laughable 20 years after the problem has first been discovered.

So why did they attack Azure City so swiftly? By that logic, they should have attacked Azure a dozen years, or so, from now when they realize the problem is not going away.

[RetCon]

Why would elves care about Tarquin? That area is ruled by tyrants for hundred years before.

The important distinction is that to outside observers, the multiple tyrant kingdoms are at each others throats. If a desert has a massive internal problem with kingdom/leader overturn rates, then those on the outside edge of that desert have considerably less to worry about as none of them can mount a serious effort to expand or wage war except for against their equally violent neighbors, as to launch an expeditionary force strong enough to attack the Elves would doom the responsible nations to invasion by the other two empires. Indeed, from their (the elves or any neighbors) point of view this happens constantly as the 3 empires constantly shift, revolt, and war.

Now, how has that situation changed when you realize those three countries, mighty but tied down heavily in self-defense concerns, are actually ruled by the same small group and could unify resources if possible. Suddenly, your strategic assumptions prove to be false and your immediate neighbor turns out to be three times as big and with only an illusion of internal strife to throw you off guard. Wouldn't you start making some serious attempts to change the game in your favor? Assassinating the truly competent leaders re-creates the power vacuum and sends the empire(s) back into decades or centuries of power struggles, changing their status from potential invaders back to useful buffer state.

[Morquard]

So why did they attack Azure City so swiftly? By that logic, they should have attacked Azure a dozen years, or so, from now when they realize the problem is not going away.
Ah, I'm glad you bring that up.

There are two possibilities:
a) Diviners. They knew about it for 20 years or so and been planning all this time
b) They've been planning to invade Azure City for 20 years, to take over Soons gate after Lirian's got destroyed. Since obviously only elves are qualified for that and Paladins suck. Or maybe just because Elves are mean meany-heads.

[King of Nowhere]

In my analysis, the elves would never need to attack tarquin, because they don't need fear him. Because they are much more powerful that all the rest of the western continent.
Let's look at the map (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html): the elves controls a portuon of the ontinent. A forested portion.
Most of what is left is the great desert, which is not populated. The rest appears to be desertic and barely livable anyway. he livable terrain is more or less the same extension of the elven land.
So, the elven land probably produces more food than the rest of the continent together. unless there are some mining goods in the desert, we may assume that the elves are richer and more resourceful that the whole rest of the conbtinent.
Then, there's the high-level-people factor to cionsider. In a world based on d&d, high level combatants decide the war. Now, once you go past level 10, you are generally resurrected when you die. You die only of old age. And since elves ae very long lived, it follows that they should have a lot more high level adventurers than the humans.
We can see partial confirmation of this in the fact that because the elves sent several high level teams (all of them could teleport), while tarquin talks to a level 15is figther telling him he's the best he saw in years. So, the elves should have much more high level power.
Last, but not least, even if the elves tougth tarquin wanted to conquer them, and were afraid of that, there are big mountains between them. fortified. So they could just wait in their fortress, rather than spending the lives of their people.

[Luzahn]

In case somebody hadn't mentioned it, Reptilia also appears to sits on the only open pass over the mountains, if the map is accurate.

[Valley]

Ah, I'm glad you bring that up.

There are two possibilities:
a) Diviners. They knew about it for 20 years or so and been planning all this time
b) They've been planning to invade Azure City for 20 years, to take over Soons gate after Lirian's got destroyed. Since obviously only elves are qualified for that and Paladins suck. Or maybe just because Elves are mean meany-heads.

So the invasion of Azure City by the goblins/hobgoblins was just an additional factor that tipped the balance and triggered action on the part of the Elves?

So the Order of the Stick (for example Elan being mistaken for Nale OR the elves wondering why such a powerful elf like V is there) may trigger the Elves to invade and try to take out Tarquin and his plot?

[ORione]

Damn it! I was reading strip 666. :smallannoyed: Thanks for spoilers you dummy, you spoiled it for me! :smallmad:

If you didn't want to be spoiled, why did you come on the forums? Did you really expect that we wouldn't be discussing strips 667-788? Besides that, it actually said "Spoilers" in the title.

[Jay R]

So why did they attack Azure City so swiftly? By that logic, they should have attacked Azure a dozen years, or so, from now when they realize the problem is not going away.

Xykon is committed to taking over the world, and has just easily defeated a large force of high-level paladins with overwhelming power.

Tarquin's party is committed to keeping the three empires they have, and has just absorbed a single city with clever lies.

One is a serious and growing threat. One is a stable (though unpleasant) situation.

No comparison.

[hoosier]

What if its the other way around? What if, knowing the Elves are entangled in matters on another continent, their tyrannical neighbors attack the Elven Lands? The Reptilians could be negotiating to get Tarquin in on such an offensive.

He might be convinced to take a good opportunity to make a preemptive strike against a possible future threat; RetCon has explained why they might be a threat.

The Elves are not only distracted by operations in Azure City, but they are also apparently engaged in a "trade war" with Cliffport. Add the concern of the latter recognizing Gobbotopia, which occupies the former, and the possibility of a wider military alliance between the two, and we can assume that the Elves have their hands full on the other continent.

An attack on the Elves would in all probability be ill-advised, even if Tarquin gathered the might of the Empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears along with the Reptilians and anyone else that might be interested. The Elves' advantages of terrain and sheer eldritch power has been noted above.

'Polozius' provides an interesting complication to this idea, which might serve as an advantage to the tyrants.

Knowing now that Polozius was really the Dark Elf this entire time, we are left with a few possibilities. Was Tarquin aware of Zz'dtri's disguise? Based on his apparent resources and skillset, it is unlikely that the wizard could have remained undetected, so logic points to conspiracy between at least Tarquin and Zz'dtri, if not between Tarquin and the LG at large. I am not sure that Nale and Tarquin aren't working together.

And if Zz'dtri was working for Tarquin, was he actually serving as ambassador to the Elves, going back and forth "reporting" to the Elven leadership? It seems just as unlikely that the Elves would be incapable of seeing through his masque.

But at the very least, Zz'dtri's cooperation with the Empire of Blood would allow for much of Tarquin's seeming knowledge of the party, and would inform him about the ventures in which the Elves are currently engaged.

In either case, his successful disguise might be helped by circumstance, as he is disguising himself as another sub-category of the same race. Maybe.

I agree that the Empire of Blood will soon be at war. Parades and pageantry, gladiatorial combat: bread and circuses; Elan has provided his father the perfect opportunity for the propaganda shows that offer a prelude to a march to war. And Tarquin seems fairly eager to see the Order of the Stick leave, as soon as the festivities are over. I see him revealing the information on Gerard, but then the Order finding out about the dictator's diabolical plans for Elvendom. I think we may see an earlier than expected final showdown between Elan and Tarquin.

But there is war in Tarquin's future. The cannonball must keep rolling.

*Edited on account of Mrs. Malaprops

[Caractacus]

Elan has provided his father the perfect opportunity for the propaganda shows that offer preclude a march to war.

You mean 'often precede', or 'are often a prelude to', right?

[hoosier]

You mean 'often precede', or 'are often a prelude to', right?

Yeah, of course. Up all night studying for finals.