Spellthief questions [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

yrudoy

2011-04-16, 12:52 AM

Zaq

2011-04-16, 05:14 AM

I had a couple of questions about the the spellthief class abilities and I was hoping someone here could help me.

Steal Spell: I'm a little bit unclear about what happens if you try to steal a spell and choose a spell that is not prepared / known by the target. Example: I try to steal chain lightning (a 6th level spell) from a 15th level wizard. The wizard does not have chain lightning prepared. Will the steal ability fizzle or will I get a random spell that the wizard had prepared? If it is the latter, is it chosen out of spells of that level or all spells, and what would have happened if it was a sorcerer?

CAdv, p. 16: "A spellthief can choose which spell to steal; otherwise, the DM determines the stolen spell randomly. If a spellthief tries to steal a spell that isn't available, the stolen spell (or spell slot) is determined randomly from among those the target has available." A mean GM will choose randomly from among every spell the target knows, but a more reasonable (or at least more generous) one will determine the spell randomly from among the appropriate level. (This is why Discover Spells is very useful, and why Vatic Gaze is a fantastic feat if you read it a certain way.)

Absorb spell: From the description, it looks like you use absorb spell after you passed your save but if you fail your check, then the spell still hits. Is that correct?

RAW, yes, this is correct. Unfortunately, it's also really harsh. You can read "Failure [on the level check to absorb the spell] indicates that the spell has its normal effect" means that it has the "normal effect" for someone who successfully saved against it (usually nothing, or possibly a partial effect), but it's not clear in the rules. I think that it's more likely that failure on the level check means that you have to accept the full pain of the spell, but a more lenient (and, in my eyes, reasonable) reading says that failure on the level check gives you the effects of a successful save. Both readings are possible, so ask your GM.

Discover spells: If you are stealing multiple spells, when is this resolved? Example: I sneak attack a wizard for 4d6 extra damage. I use up 1d6 of that to attempt to steal chain lightning. Do I get to see if the steal was successful, and if so what other 6th level spells the wizard has, before deciding what to do with the other 3d6?

By my reading, you ALWAYS know if a steal was successful. Since I'm pretty sure that you can't use sacrifice multiple dice from one sneak attack to steal multiple spells (to steal multiple things, sure, but only one spell . . . at least, again, by my reading. There's a lot of wiggle room in how the class is written), the second question is moot. That said, if you can indeed steal multiple spells on a single sneak attack, I see no reason why Discover Spells wouldn't trigger immediately.

Absorb spell: How (if at all) does this work with magic items? Also, if an ally is casting this on me, can they choose to fail their check so I can get the ability?

I say that you can absorb spells from spell completion or spell trigger items normally. Your ally can't choose to fail their check, if for no other reason than that they're not MAKING a check; you're rolling your level check against a DC that's set by the spell's caster level.

Misc: If I steal a spell, it becomes inaccessible to my target. Does that mean that I can't steal it again (at least until the 1 minute is up)?

You know, I have no idea. Against a prepared caster, you can definitely steal another copy of the spell in question if they happen to have it prepped, but against a spontaneous caster, I have no idea. I don't see a clause saying that the target has to be able to cast the spell for you to steal it (so a caster with enough of a penalty to their casting stat that they couldn't cast their strongest spells could probably still donate those spells to a spellthief, I think), but that's kind of murky. Not the most tightly-written class, is it?

Master spellthief (feat): Will this let me cast higher level spells? For example, can a 10 spellthief / 5 wizard cast 4th level spellthief spells (like a level 15 spellthief) and 8th level wizard spells (like a level 15 wizard)? If not, does the increase in caster level do anything else?

No, it doesn't improve your spellcaster level, just your caster level. It means that your spells will have all the benefits of a higher caster level (longer durations, longer ranges, more targets, extra damage, better checks against SR, etc.), but it doesn't let you cast any more spells or any spells of a higher level. In short, it makes your spells better when you cast them, but it doesn't make your access to spells any better.

I look forward to playing this class, as soon as I can figure out how it works...

It's a fun class. Underpowered for what it's meant to do, but one of my favorites. Be careful if you go Master Spellthief, though, since it doesn't increase how many spell slots you can steal, nor does it increase things like Absorb Spell or Steal Spell-Like Ability or (my favorite) Steal Spell Effect. If you want to use your class features to the fullest, it helps to pretty much stay single-classed (maybe with a dip here or there; I like Swordsage for this purpose), since nothing else really advances your class features in any satisfactory manner.