Warforged Scout....

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Why do they suck?
They get a cumulative -6 in exchange for the +2 Dex... Plus the movespeed hit...

Do the Living Construct traits make up for it? I'm using them as an NPC commando group in the Eberron campaign I'm currently running, and it would be nice for them to actually be decent at it.

[Zaq]

Yeah, they really kinda suck compared to normal 'forged. They're supposed to be quick and nimble, but they have a 20' move speed, which in my mind is pretty much just unforgivable. They're really not worth your time . . . which makes me sad, because they could have been much cooler.

[Cog]

Small size and +dex has all its usual benefits for caster/manifester types, so they'd be a strong race for that. Standard warforged are already very strong as player characters, so giving them a bit of a hit won't hurt much; a lot of those immunities come up less when they're NPCs, though.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Possible fixes...

Movespeed buffed to 30', base armor downgraded to +1, Run feat.

Movespeed buffed to 30'.

Run feat.

Mad Dash racial ability - Take 1hp damage, movespeed is doubled for 1 round per level. Fatigued afterwards.



Anything look good?

[Zaq]

Possible fixes...

Movespeed buffed to 30', base armor downgraded to +1, Run feat.

Movespeed buffed to 30'.

Run feat.

Mad Dash racial ability - Take 1hp damage, movespeed is doubled for 1 round per level. Fatigued afterwards.



Anything look good?

Well, the Mad Dash idea is flawed (or at least weird) in that living constructs can't be fatigued.

Buffing the move speed to 30' is a good start. I like Mad Dash, but I don't think that there's a good way to balance it, at least not as you've got it now.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Forgot they can't be fatigued...

I was looking for a way to give them a burst of speed, without it being free/at will. Free is ok, at-will is also ok, but not both, unless it costs some sort of action to activate, which seems like it wouldn't be worth using considering the value of certain actions.

Maybe buff MS to 30', and give them a Mad Dash as an Immediate Action, costing 1 HP? Warforged paying 'lifeforce' for things isn't unheard of, and here I cite the Armbow from the Eberron Campaign Setting, which lets a Warforged pay HP to create crossbow bolts.

[Zaq]

I don't see what making it an immediate action would do. (Why would you need to increase your move speed when it's not your turn, anyway?) Maybe the duration is the key. Free action, one-round duration, costs 1 HP. Sure, by high levels, fast healing from whatever source makes that pretty trivial, but by the time you've got consistent healing to that degree, an extra 30' of movement isn't the kind of problem you need to be worried about.

I would probably put a limit on it, though. Say that it gives you an extra 30' of movement, or that it doubles your move speed (to a maximum of +30'). We don't need to be multiplying anything. Alternatively, you could just make it an enhancement bonus, so it won't stack with much, but that seems a little harsh.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So....

Movespeed 30'.
Racial Ability: Overdrive - As a free action once per round, the Warforged Scout may pay 1 HP and gain a +30 speed bonus for 1 round.

[Zaq]

Hmm. That still looks dicey to me. It's definitely a lot closer to playable/balanced than the RAW version is (I'm sorry, but nothing with "scout" in the name should have a reduced movement speed), but something about your (our, I guess?) fix still doesn't quite seem right.

Maybe drop it down to +15' for 1 HP? At the levels at which you'll most need that +15' (because by higher levels, you have other speed boosters, and there's a functional limit to how much speed you really need, assuming that you're not going for something specific like a jumper or Dervish), 1 HP/round is not immediately life-threatening but still nontrivial . . . but I still feel like giving them easy access to a 60' move speed is pushing it just a little. 45' still puts them above a Barbarian, so they're still some of the fastest little guys around right out of the box, but the cost is still nontrivial when you need it most.

[Greenish]

but I still feel like giving them easy access to a 60' move speed is pushing it just a little.I don't know, for example xeph can do it, even if they do have a limit on their Burst ability (3 times for 3 rounds).

I'm not sure they even need anything that fancy. Slap in +4 Spot (they're scouts, after all) or something, on top of 30' speed.

[Zaq]

I don't know, for example xeph can do it, even if they do have a limit on their Burst ability (3 times for 3 rounds).

I'm not sure they even need anything that fancy. Slap in +4 Spot (they're scouts, after all) or something, on top of 30' speed.

I think the big difference is that Xeph Burst starts at 10' and scales with level.

That said, having this ability start low and scale up would also work.

[McSmack]

Increase base land speed to 30' and give them the Burst ability that Xeph's have in XPH

3/day Increase movement by 10' and +10' per 4 levels max +30, considered a competence bonus. Each use lasts 3 rounds.


....damn swordsage'd again!

[AslanCross]

Also, Living Constructs are immune to fatigue. Making an exception for the speed ability either way is kind of lame and roundabout. Just do away with the penalty altogether. A limited-use speed boost is fine without penalties.

[McSmack]

I'd probably give them Keen Senses, and +4 Dex instead of +2, in addition to the speed buff/base speed increase. So it'd look something like this-

Warforged Scout
Dex +4, Str -2, Wis -2, Cha -2
Base speed 30'
Keen Senses - +2 on listen, search, and spot checks.
Overdrive - 3/day a warforged scout can put on a burst of speed, he gains a competence bonus of +10' to his movement for 3 rounds. This bonus increases by +10' for every 4 character levels he posesses, to a max of +30 feet at level 9.
Favored Class: Decepticon.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

I'd probably give them Keen Senses, and +4 Dex instead of +2, in addition to the speed buff/base speed increase. So it'd look something like this-

Warforged Scout
Dex +4, Str -2, Wis -2, Cha -2
Base speed 30'
Keen Senses - +2 on listen, search, and spot checks.
Overdrive - 3/day a warforged scout can put on a burst of speed, he gains a competence bonus of +10' to his movement for 3 rounds. This bonus increases by +10' for every 4 character levels he posesses, to a max of +30 feet at level 9.
Favored Class: Decepticon.

I could get behind that. It actually looks like something I'd build, were I a member of House Cannith looking to make a covert operations version of the Warforged. (And not, you know, a college dropout making mini-warforged in his mom's basement. Which is what the original suggested.)

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Related question...

Does Rapid Shot work in conjunction with a Warforged armbow? What if the warforged has Quick Reload as well?

[Cog]

It's already a repeating crossbow, so Rapid Reload offers no advantages. It requires a standard action to fire, so Rapid Shot (requiring a full-round attack) offers no benefit either.