Has video game playing addiction ever caused a partner or friend to dump you ?

[GBaxter]

Have you ever had any humorous experience/s so far, where playing a particular video game or games in general, took preference and precedence over a girlfriend, friend, or family and in the case of the first two, they dumped you as a result. If so, please elaborate.

[Kjata]

No such a thing has never happened to me. I don;t have a video game addiction.

I'm willing to bet, however, that such a situation would not be humorous.

[Geno9999]

No, I have never had that happen, but sometime when I'm talking to a fellow geek on video games, we tend to inadvertently confuse the non-geek friends nearby into thinking we're speaking another language.

[dsmiles]

I once head of a support group for spouses abandoned by EverCrack players.

An online support group. :smallamused:

[olelia]

I once head of a support group for spouses abandoned by EverCrack players.

An online support group. :smallamused:

Would be even better if it was an in-game guild :smallbiggrin:.

[Winter_Wolf]

Have you ever had any humorous experience/s so far, where playing a particular video game or games in general, took preference and precedence over a girlfriend, friend, or family and in the case of the first two, they dumped you as a result. If so, please elaborate.

I question your choice of words. Humorous? Really? I've seen video game addiction destroy families, and I've found it at times to be sad, pathetic, and disgusting. Humorous is absolutely not in the list of adjectives/emotions I associate with that.

[shadow_archmagi]

@Winter Wolf: Have you SEEN a destroyed family? And you're still not sure it's hilarious?

Honestly, what kind of person can just watch someone sad and pathetic cause suffering and not enjoy every moment?

It's like you're not even on the internet!

[Grogmir]

My wife made me quit being a guild leader in Astro Empires. It certainly isn't her favorite part about me - but I hope I've got the 'addiction under control' enough that it doesn't split us up!

[psilontech]

No, and along a similar vein as others, I doubt it would be humerus outside of the "I'm a terrible person who takes pleasure in others misfortune" area of my psyche.

[Ursus the Grim]

Its coming pretty close. I logged about 200 hours on Monster Hunter Tri. . . since March. Hundreds of hours in Halo 3, Reach, Final Fantasy, Dead Space, Halo Wars, etc. She knew I was a gamer coming into it, but it still upsets her. If she tells me she wants attention, I put the game down for a bit and hang out with her. Problem is she just assumes I know and that I should want to cuddle. Love her, but I'm not much of a cuddler.

[Gaius Marius]

No, but the other way around is sure true.

Being dumped by a girlfriend sure kicked video game addiction. It's kinda my self-destructive path, where I just lock myself in my room with fat pizza and video games for the whole summer.


In the end, you wonder if you hate yourself more for the pitiful human being you turned yourself into, or for having been dumped by the girl. The only thing I know is: it's not healthy behavior.

[Martok]

Yeah, I've seen one relationship that was nearly destroyed by video game addiction, and another that actually *was* destroyed by it. In neither case was it "humorous".

[Starwulf]

Its coming pretty close. I logged about 200 hours on Monster Hunter Tri. . . since March. Hundreds of hours in Halo 3, Reach, Final Fantasy, Dead Space, Halo Wars, etc. She knew I was a gamer coming into it, but it still upsets her. If she tells me she wants attention, I put the game down for a bit and hang out with her. Problem is she just assumes I know and that I should want to cuddle. Love her, but I'm not much of a cuddler.

My wife is the same way. Knew I was a serious gamer to begin with, yet always gets mad when I spend a few hours playing a game and don't pay attention to whatever she is saying and what not ^^. Love her to death though!

[Seerow]

I used to actively play a game called Cyber Nations. It's a ****ty browser based nation simulator that hasn't had any real updates in several years, yet the admin somehow manages to still make a living off people donating to it.

Anyway, in this game, your typical person logs on once every 2-3 weeks, collects taxes, signs off. End of game for them. However, for those who get involved with the community, there is(or was) a pretty charged political game running behind the scenes, on the forums and IRC. While you'd only spend 5 minutes a month playing the actual game, the people running the alliances in this game dedicate closer to 4-5 hours a day on the game.

Now, I knew one particular individual, a guy who was a lawyer IRL, who had a particularly addictive personality. He had played WoW before finding CN, and had just quit cold turkey due to him wasting too much time raiding. Well sure enough, he found his way into the largest alliance in the game, and worked his way into leadership. Shortly after, a relatively large war broke out in game, and as you might expect in such a situation, activity levels across the board spiked. This guy in particular I know for a fact was spending as much as 14 hours a day on IRC and Forums, talking to people behind the scenes and waging a PR war in support of his alliance.


Why do I bring this particular individual up you may ask? Well the more astute among you will realize I am rambling about a guy spending more than 90% of his waking hours on a game that an ordinary person would spend 5-10 minutes a month on, in a topic asking about addiction causing dumping. Well, the guy didn't get dumped exactly, but right around the time this war was finishing up, the guy posts his resignation.

As at the time, I had worked with him for a while and was relatively close to him, I asked what caused the sudden 180. Come to find out he had filed for a divorce with his wife that day. The night before he had caught her in bed with another man.

How's that for a wake-up call?

[The Rose Dragon]

I've had video game addiction cause me never to find a partner. Or friends. I had to quit playing video games for six months before realizing I could function without them.

[Starwulf]

I used to actively play a game called Cyber Nations. It's a ****ty browser based nation simulator that hasn't had any real updates in several years, yet the admin somehow manages to still make a living off people donating to it.

Anyway, in this game, your typical person logs on once every 2-3 weeks, collects taxes, signs off. End of game for them. However, for those who get involved with the community, there is(or was) a pretty charged political game running behind the scenes, on the forums and IRC. While you'd only spend 5 minutes a month playing the actual game, the people running the alliances in this game dedicate closer to 4-5 hours a day on the game.

Now, I knew one particular individual, a guy who was a lawyer IRL, who had a particularly addictive personality. He had played WoW before finding CN, and had just quit cold turkey due to him wasting too much time raiding. Well sure enough, he found his way into the largest alliance in the game, and worked his way into leadership. Shortly after, a relatively large war broke out in game, and as you might expect in such a situation, activity levels across the board spiked. This guy in particular I know for a fact was spending as much as 14 hours a day on IRC and Forums, talking to people behind the scenes and waging a PR war in support of his alliance.


Why do I bring this particular individual up you may ask? Well the more astute among you will realize I am rambling about a guy spending more than 90% of his waking hours on a game that an ordinary person would spend 5-10 minutes a month on, in a topic asking about addiction causing dumping. Well, the guy didn't get dumped exactly, but right around the time this war was finishing up, the guy posts his resignation.

As at the time, I had worked with him for a while and was relatively close to him, I asked what caused the sudden 180. Come to find out he had filed for a divorce with his wife that day. The night before he had caught her in bed with another man.

How's that for a wake-up call?

No offense, but that was likely caused more by a bitch of a wife then his video game addiction. Some women just naturally cheat/can't be faithful. Doubt it was caused solely by his video game playing.

[Gaius Marius]

No offense, but that was likely caused more by a bitch of a wife then his video game addiction. Some women just naturally cheat/can't be faithful. Doubt it was caused solely by his video game playing.

While I agree 100% that infidelity shouldn't be excused..

Maybe he could have cared more to his wife if he didn't spent his mental energy over a silly internet game.

If people could invest the energy, genius and determination they waste on video game over something rewarding, they could achieve so much more. Not to say mental distraction isn't a good thing (hell, I'm pretty guilty to enjoy those), but when your main mental activity is that very distraction, maybe you have the wrong priorities...

This is why I am trying to limit my videogaming addiciton, and switch it to investment project to get myself a better future. Probably in videogaming production... :smallbiggrin:

[Forbiddenwar]

Anyone interested in this topic should look into "Reality is Broken" a great new book on why we play video games so much and why it isn't so bad.

Edit: broken as in nonfunctioning, not broken as so overpowered it is nonplayable. I like the second defination more.

[Winter_Wolf]

Anyone interested in this topic should look into "Reality is Broken" a great new book on why we play video games so much and why it isn't so bad.

Edit: broken as in nonfunctioning, not broken as so overpowered it is nonplayable. I like the second defination more.

Well, heck, I don't need no book to tell me reality is borked! :smalltongue: The book does sound interesting, though. After years of trying to impress upon my wife that after a hard day of putting up with all the crap on the outside of our four walls, I'd like to have a little me time before putting up with all the crap on the inside of 'em, I still haven't gotten through to her. I'm not much of a drinker, but lately I've started to see the appeal of going out to the bar to unwind before I get home. Video game addiction aside, a lot of activities which I would like to become better at also take place in front of the computer: learning Manga Studio EX to the point where I'm not embarrassed by my lineart, trying to learn Russian, hell even trying to find another job or doing my coursework--don't matter, if I'm in front of the computer and not specifically catering to her every whim, it's my darn "video game addiction." :smallannoyed:

[Indon]

I once knew a guy who failed out of college due to EverQuest.

The story was not particularly funny, unfortunately, as it boiled down to, "Played instead of studied, failed my classes."

[Ursus the Grim]

My wife is the same way. Knew I was a serious gamer to begin with, yet always gets mad when I spend a few hours playing a game and don't pay attention to whatever she is saying and what not ^^. Love her to death though!

To be fair, now that the semester is over, she's found her addiction to Fallout once again.

Now I'll be having to fight her for right of the television. :smalleek:

Now, the OP was about relationships. If we're talking about studies hurting. Well, let's say that I have a 4.0 mind for studies but a 1.0 mind for study skills.

[cheesymetal]

ive seen this happen. its not funny at all.

[Spinoza]

So how much time playing video games each week would you say is crossing the line into addiction.

Say more than 20?

Just curious on what people think is to much.

[warty goblin]

So how much time playing video games each week would you say is crossing the line into addiction.

Say more than 20?

Just curious on what people think is to much.

I'd operationally define it as 'when you aren't getting other stuff done that needs to be done.'

So if you're hanging around college over fall break and don't have any homework, 20 hours a week isn't a problem. If you're hitting that during the semester and getting Cs and Ds, there's an issue.

And if you're spending twenty hours a week of leisure time not doing things with a significant other, should you have one, that's probably not a good thing no matter what you're spending the time on.

[Serpentine]

No offense, but that was likely caused more by a bitch of a wife then his video game addiction. Some women just naturally cheat/can't be faithful. Doubt it was caused solely by his video game playing.And, what, the guy gets a free pass for effectively abandoning his wife?

[Forbiddenwar]

So if you're hanging around college over fall break and don't have any homework, 20 hours a week isn't a problem. If you're hitting that during the semester and getting Cs and Ds not going to class at all, there's an issue.


Actually happened to my roommate in college. He dropped out after 1 month.

Time is too flexible to put down in exact terms. There is no line in the sand.
40 hours a week can be healthy for some, 10 hours can be unhealthy for others. It depends on your life, your dreams and wishes, your commitments. If you feel you are doing too much, then try cutting back.

For example, I have a wife who works nights, a full time job, a dream of being a published author (1 have finished 2 novels) and collection of friends on and offline. 10 hours a week in video games seems a bit too much, but if my offline friends are out of town than 12 is about right. Anytime playing a video game, or table top game, with my wife doesn't count.

But if you exchange playing games for watching TV alone, don't have the illusion that that is any healthier, it's much worse.

[Volos]

My fiancee's ex-husband had a video game addiction to WoW, Oblivion, D&D, and others. She got dressed up in a school girl outfit for him and suggested that they head to the bedroom. He was in the middle of a WoW raid and said, "Uh sure hun... just let me get to a save point." Several hours later he went to the bedroom and she was already asleep.

Another time she woke up and was unable to move due to a neck injury from a near crash in his car earlier that week. She was paralyzed in bed and needed him to take her to the hospital, and he was in the middle of a raid. After it was over he got into another one, and another. She was in agony, suffering for six hours before he got off his game to help her and take her to the hospital. She was about half an hour or less from suffering permanent damage to her spinal cord. The medics said if she got there a few hours earlier it would have been a simple matter of giving her some medicine and letting her sleep for the rest of the day. Instead she had to take pain meds and get treatment for several weeks after that.

Once they were in town playing D&D with their friends, and they took a lunch break. Some people who were old friends, now enemies of theirs found them eating and decided to start a verbal fight. She was in no mood to play after that and asked him to take her home. He said, "Sure hun, let me tell the guys we're going." She waited for half an hour or so, and then went in to figure out what was taking him so long. "Oh we have to finish this room, but then we'll go!" So she went back outside. The people who started the verbal fight before came by and started up again. Without her then husband with her, she got into a scuffle with these girls and there were some bruises and alot of insults slung. By the time he got out, almost an hour later, she was bleeding and crying.

These sort of incidents just kept happening, so she divorced him over it. She gave him chances to fix things, they tried counciling. None of it worked. He wanted to play games all day and ignore her completely. So some time later I came into her life, and she was worried that I would be as addicted to games as her ex. I've been on several hour play sessions in some of my favorite RPGs, looking desperately for a save point. If she wants to cuddle or whatever, I turn the game off and spend time with her. It doesn't matter if I'm half a minute from a save point or what rare or impossible to find items I have obtained. She is my first and only prioty. Games are fun, but if they get between me and my fiancee then they need to be turned off.

[ShortOne]

Thankfully, I have not. I'm in a relationship with someone who is quite good at balancing gaming time with "us" time, where gaming together counts as neither.

I have, however, seen it almost destroy my best friend's relationship. It's at the point where her boyfriend is playing games all day and all night, and not coming out of his room for weeks. He's basically given up on college/a job, and he isn't listening to her pleas to change his behavior. It's not at all humorous. :smallconfused:

[littlebottom]

i think that the problem is not gaming causing partners to split up as much as gaming causing people to not get partners.

ive not had a solid girlfriend in years. and i dont even put that much time into gaming (although i will admit, i proberbly would if i could)

admittedly, its less of an addiction, and more of an escape, i play games when i feel down, or when im totally bored, there are only a few games i go out of my way to play, such as portal 2 recently, but even then, its not that often these games i must play come out.

still i fail at life harder than i fail at "i wanna be the guy" (PS. ive got over 200 recorded deaths and im working between the 3rd and forth bosses. it is extremely likely that my actual deaths are much higher due to starting, dying a lot, and then not getting to another save point, thus it reverts back to the death count from what it was saved ages ago... proberbly have over 1000 deaths :smallsigh:) also, i dont play it often, its been ongoing over the last year or so... just to show im not actually an addict as such

EDIT: actually its quite depressing thinking that i will likely never actually get a girlfriend who actually understands me. hell, i only know one girl who will put up with me, she still doesnt understand me :smalltongue::smallfrown:

[shadow_archmagi]

i think that the problem is not gaming causing partners to split up as much as gaming causing people to not get partners.

I don't see why this would be the case. I mean, how do normal people find partners? How does gaming inhibit that process for you?

Are you suggesting that you're unable to strike up a conversation with that cutie at the bus station because you've been playing Dwarf Fortress again?

I would argue that the people who say "All I do is play video games and will never have a girlfriend" are the people who wouldn't anyway. Take myself for example:

It could be said that I have a harder time talking to people because I play video games instead of watching TV or having a different hobby. But if I didn't play video games, I'd probably just watch Red Dwarf and Jeopardy, and invest my time writing short stories and bad science fiction. That still wouldn't help me find a girlfriend, and if it did, it'd probably be the sort of girl who plays a lot of video games anyway.

What you need to do is find pockets of nerd culture. If you're at Uni, there's probably a computer club and a D&D club and so on. If you're not at Uni, there's probably a local game shop that does tournaments and such, and you can go to those and make friends there.

Spend enough time with enough geeks and some of them will be female and some of the females will be interested.

PS: Dwarf Fortress is actually a pretty great conversation starter, because it really does lend itself to amazing stories, and while video game stories in general are a bad idea, (And one time I got like, FIFTY HEADSHOTS!) Dwarf Fortress stories are third person and insane (And then the blacksmith went crazy and FLUNG the baby into the mayor!) so they can be justified if they're good enough.

[Kislath]

Hello. My name is Kislath Caine, and I am a videogame addict. My life is a complete wreck, and I just can't seem to care.

[littlebottom]

I don't see why this would be the case. I mean, how do normal people find partners? How does gaming inhibit that process for you?
because the time i could spend meeting people i instead play games.

Are you suggesting that you're unable to strike up a conversation with that cutie at the bus station because you've been playing Dwarf Fortress again?
yes and no, not just because ive been playing dwarf fortress again, but because im socially inept because i dont meet people as often as i should.

now, again, im not saying i cant strike up that conversation, but i mess that conversation up somehow by saying the wrong thing because i dont really get what is the right thing to say. largely due to lack of practice striking up a random conversation.


I would argue that the people who say "All I do is play video games and will never have a girlfriend" are the people who wouldn't anyway. Take myself for example:

It could be said that I have a harder time talking to people because I play video games instead of watching TV or having a different hobby. But if I didn't play video games, I'd probably just watch Red Dwarf and Jeopardy, and invest my time writing short stories and bad science fiction. That still wouldn't help me find a girlfriend, and if it did, it'd probably be the sort of girl who plays a lot of video games anyway.

true in many ways, but have you found that girl who plays a lot of video games? if you do tell me. because i only know a couple and they are A: virtually twice my age, and B: taken.


What you need to do is find pockets of nerd culture. If you're at Uni, there's probably a computer club and a D&D club and so on. If you're not at Uni, there's probably a local game shop that does tournaments and such, and you can go to those and make friends there.

Spend enough time with enough geeks and some of them will be female and some of the females will be interested.

im not at uni as much as i would like to be and every woman ive met that is interested in anything i want to talk about is taken.


PS: Dwarf Fortress is actually a pretty great conversation starter, because it really does lend itself to amazing stories, and while video game stories in general are a bad idea, (And one time I got like, FIFTY HEADSHOTS!) Dwarf Fortress stories are third person and insane (And then the blacksmith went crazy and FLUNG the baby into the mayor!) so they can be justified if they're good enough.

Dwarf fortress is fun... i need to learn how to play it properly again :smallsigh:

overall, i vastly agree with you, the real problem being is my own insecurity as opposed to the game playing, but my insecurity manifests itself as playing games. so maybe i was wrong to put that games are the reason i cant find a girlfriend, but i hope you can see what i mean.

[Lord Loss]

Used to have this probelm with video games, magic the gathering and D&D. I couldn't shut my mouth about them and did, like nothing else. I realized this was a problem a year and a half or two years ago. Started reading, doing sports, finding other interests and talking about them alot less, I still game way more than I should, but I'm alot more socially apt than I was. Tons of friends, far more popular and, as for girls, I've got a cute blonde's number on a post it stuck to my computer as I type this :smallamused:

My reccomendation, to those who are addicted to video games (or roleplaying, or whatever) is to get out of the house, and leave your Ipod/other portable device with games on it at home. Find something to do. Hang out at the mall, go to the library, join the school Go club, whatever. You don't have to ditch games, just find yourself an environment where there's something enjoyable to do that has nothing to do with gaming.

[warty goblin]

Used to have this probelm with video games, magic the gathering and D&D. I couldn't shut my mouth about them and did, like nothing else. I realized this was a problem a year and a half or two years ago. Started reading, doing sports, finding other interests and talking about them alot less, I still game way more than I should, but I'm alot more socially apt than I was. Tons of friends, far more popular and, as for girls, I've got a cute blonde's number on a post it stuck to my computer as I type this :smallamused:

My reccomendation, to those who are addicted to video games (or roleplaying, or whatever) is to get out of the house, and leave your Ipod/other portable device with games on it at home. Find something to do. Hang out at the mall, go to the library, join the school Go club, whatever. You don't have to ditch games, just find yourself an environment where there's something enjoyable to do that has nothing to do with gaming.

This post is very true. It really is amazing how much better one feels doing and talking about real things. I particularly second getting into sports or some other physical activity, being active and using one's body simply improves one's quality of life immensely I've found. I'm still not as good about getting out and moving as I'd like to be, but when I do, I'm happier, feel better, and have better energy and concentration.

As for reducing how much I game, I'm still working on that. My current plan is to simply stop buying new games after the Witcher 2; since I'm not an obsessive replayer my hope is that that way I can phase them out gradually. With luck by the end of the summer I'll be down to gaming every few days or so, which is a level I'd consider sustainable and healthy - since I'm starting grad school in the fall I really can't afford the huge social and mental anchor of spending serious time moving pixels around anymore.

[Shpadoinkle]

No... I play a lot of games, but I make time for friends and family first. Although I have lost some friends to World of Warcrack, as I don't play since my computer is a piece of crap and can't run it (and even if it could, I'm not especially taken with what I've seen.)

[Volos]

While I have seen video game addiction do terrible things to my friends and their relationships both platonic and romantic; I feel I must say the following. There is a difference between playing alot of games and having a video game addiction. Many gamers will say, "I'm sooo addicted to games" as either a joke or as their own way of admitting that they think they spend too much time gaming. But this isn't nessesarily addiction. An addiction is something that takes prioity over everything else, to the point of taking priority over survival instincts. For example if you would rather game than seek out a life partner, you may have an addiction to gaming. But if you're just unsure of yourself but still have an interest in finding a life partner, then you're probably just nervous about dating and play alot of games. If you would rather stay up all night and day, only sleeping for the most minimal amount of time possible just to have more time to play your game, you may have an addiction. But if you had a single one nighter and were late to class/work/etc, then you were probably really excited to play that particular game and forgot about what you had to do in the morning. If you cannot stop playing for long enough to sit down and eat a meal, only stuffing snacks or food in your face during cutscenes or bathroom breaks, you may have an addiction. If you ate pizza while playing an online match every once in a while, you probably were just short on time that day and decided to squeeze gaming and eating into the same time slot.

[Sipex]

Let's forget 'gaming' and apply this to 'hobbies'. Because gaming is just another type of hobby. If you can have hobbies without them impacting real life things negatively (ie: Work, chores, relationships of all types, basic needs) then you're fine.

If you slip up every once in a while then you might need to monitor it (ie: Make sure staying up late saturday night to raid doesn't turn into staying up every night to raid) but otherwise you're fine.

Gaming isn't the evil hobby, and you need to make sure you realise that. You're not a bad person for enjoying games more than sports or what have you, you're just a different person and that's fine.

[warty goblin]

Let's forget 'gaming' and apply this to 'hobbies'. Because gaming is just another type of hobby. If you can have hobbies without them impacting real life things negatively (ie: Work, chores, relationships of all types, basic needs) then you're fine.

If you slip up every once in a while then you might need to monitor it (ie: Make sure staying up late saturday night to raid doesn't turn into staying up every night to raid) but otherwise you're fine.

Gaming isn't the evil hobby, and you need to make sure you realise that. You're not a bad person for enjoying games more than sports or what have you, you're just a different person and that's fine.

While I agree there is nothing intrinsically wrong with gaming, I think as a hobby it lends itself to excess more readily than many others. The biggest aspect of this is that gaming is very easy; you don't have to go anywhere, get dressed up, or do anything really, just turn on the box and you're good to go. With the explosion of portable gaming you can do it just about anywhere, so it's not even limited by physical location.

The other thing is that games are designed to make the player feel good about themselves, without really having to do anything. By adding lots of awesome stuff and talking the player up, games give a big sense of accomplishment when nothing has been accomplished, no real effort expended, and no difficulty encountered. Hey look, I saved the world again because I'm awesome, nevermind that all I did was sit on my ass clicking buttons for twenty hours in order to 'beat' something designed for me to win. Why do you think RPG mechanics, achievements and their ilk have spread like wildfire? It's not because they allow for more depth, or better gameplay or that they make any sort of storytelling sense, because they usually don't do any of these things. No, it's because they're reward mechanics and people like getting rewards.

Basically most games provide a very easy way to feel good about yourself for accomplishing something minus any of the actual work and productivity that real accomplishment requires. This, to me, makes them unlike hobbies like athletics, where accomplishment requires real, sustained effort. If I want to run a seven minute mile I've got to train hard and maybe I can't do it. If I want to beat a game pretty much all that's required is putting in the time, and in the unlikely event I can't win like that, there's always cheat codes.

[Sipex]

That's true, microaccomplishments are how MMOs reel you in so easily. I just think it's important that you make sure gaming doesn't become the 'evil' hobby which is easy to do when comparing it to others.

For example, your post and Lord's posts could be taken in two lights. One (which I believe was the intention) is "Try different things, you may be surprised by what you like!" and "Exercise helps give you energy, makes life better!"

While the other (which is what people who don't want to give up a habit will focus on) is "You play VIDEO GAMES? What a looooooser. HAW." and "Sports are a mans game, they make you popular and you get hot girls numbers!"

The second I don't believe was meant (I mean, you're on a GAMING forum after all) but there are key words in both your posts that make it very easy to interpret that way which can lead to the whole "Video Games = Evil" mentality.

[Ursus the Grim]

To be honest, I'm about to take this exactly the way Sipex warned it could be taken. Why? Because that's how it was written, and I think warty goblin is literate enough to keep his intentions from being mistaken.


[Snip]

I've spoilered my response in the interest of keeping it from ruining the readers that are more on topic.


Does gaming require as much effort as, say, running or mountain climbing? No. And I have to resist the urge to spit when I play against someone claiming they're MLG or "pro gamer". But you seem to take a derisive stance against it entirely. You entirely neglect the spirit of competition present in the most popular games today. Let's look at the top selling games of 2010.

Call of Duty: Black Ops
Wii Sports
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Wii Sports Resort
Wii Fit Plus
Fifa Soccer 11
Halo: Reach
Red Dead Redemption
Kinect Adventures
Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver.

Notice something? They all have major multiplayer components. Five of them are motion-capture party games. Play Wii Fit for about half an hour and pretend you aren't sweating. Is it a substitute for real exercise? No, but its hardly just sitting on one's posterior clicking a button, the picture you painted as a caricature of gamers in your above post. CoD, Fifa, Reach, and Pokemon are defined by their competitive multiplayer community. Whether its having the better twitch responses, better map control, better strategy, or best planned team, the sense of accomplishment in these games is in matching reflexes and wit against anywhere from one to fifteen other people. Cheats are not readily available for these aspects of the game. Those that do exploit the system are generally shunned and derided by those who enjoy the game, and should no sooner be considered than a football star pumping steroids.

So why do you seem to consider gaming an illegitimate hobby, based on what you said later in the post despite what you claimed earlier in that same post?



There is no Physical Exertion

The highest selling console is the Wii, a console centered around the use of motion to play video games. This was so succesful that Sony and Microsoft scrambled to develop their own mo-cap technologies. Its easy to break a sweat playing at least half of the best selling games of 2010. Even if this statement held true in all cases, I point you towards other hobbies that would fall under this judgement. Any board games. Any games, really. Cards. Reading. Painting. Sketching. Casual music. Listening to music. Dungeons and Dragons.


Its Entirely Mindless

Hardly. If you're constantly playing games that require no thought, you're probably a little bit of an idiot. Even without considering the entire genres of RPG and RTS games, even the most brainless seeming games should be played while awake. I notice a huge drop in my scores when tired, even if I'm just as quick to respond. Its because I can't think clearly. In an average game of halo, I have to keep track of seven other players whom I normally can't see, budget my usage of active camouflage, watch three chokepoints and judge which one I should pay most attention to, all the while dodging grenades I can't see and poking my head out to recap the current situation around me. And my playstyle is arguably the most mindless of all. Though I don't play MMO's, I used to play WoW and challenge you to find a greater exercise in resource management than being a healer for a multiman raid.


Cheating is Easy.

The days of the konami code are mostly over, friend. The majority of Wii games do not support cheats, and the cheats that do exist are more or less useless because the console is less achievement driven than its competitors. Cheats survive in some Xbox and PS3 games, but I've noticed something in many of the most cheat-friendly games. They disable achievements. Thus, that entire sense of accomplishment is gone. I won't lie. It feels good to see that little message pop up to let me know I have 100 more irrelevant points to add to a pointless number. Using a cheat is, in most cases, counterproductive to those of us who do enjoy the accomplishment. To cheat online is tantamount to a foot bullet. Multiplayer games are monitored, and cheaters don't go long before being banned, costing themselves a huge chunk of the appeal of a sixty dollar investment. How often do you successfully keep a friend or family member from playing a game because they always cheat? Cheating can happen in any hobby. You can buy a model plane and say you built it. You can steal money from the monopoly bank. You can keep an ace up your sleeve in poker. You can lie and say you read war and peace because it impresses people.


Vidya Games Fill your Mind with Useless Fantasy.

Though I hesitate to call video games a true art form, there are many mediums out there that fail to do anything productive. I could just as easily argue that the Louvre should be razed or that architecture should be cheap and efficient as claim that the lush, imaginative worlds that are becoming more common in games are completely pointless. The imagination is a powerful tool, a spark for the flames of invention and ingenuity. Don't neglect it. Or shall we toss out fiction novels when we dispose of Mass Effect?


Anyone can Beat Any Game Given Time.

I think several of the above points also apply to this one. I'll be the first to acknowledge that games as a whole have gotten easier. But to say its only a matter of time and you can beat any game is pretty ignorant. Perhaps you can put three monkeys in a room with a typewriter and eventually get Shakespeare. But you likely won't not in a reasonable amount of time. Yes, if you play a level a million times over without improving your strategy or skill, you may get through on dumb luck. But not before failing countless times. Games these days are rarely ever finished, either, thanks to DLC and easter eggs and sidequests. Perhaps a five year old could beat Fallout, given 1000 hours. But perhaps in that same 1000 hours, a legless man can win an ass-kicking contest when his opponents trip over themselves.




So how does this relate to the topic? Simple. I agree with people who say that gaming, like any hobby, needs to be partaken in responsibly. I also agree that, relative to some hobbies, it can be a massive money pit. But to say that it is inherently less healthy or more damaging to bodies and relationships is unfair, and can be applied to any hobby in excess. Rather than say "video games are unhealthy", you should be looking at what you're playing, what your situation is, how you play it, and who you are. If Todd spends 100 hours playing DOA Beach Volleyball when he has a supermodel in bed, there is something wrong. But if he spends those 100 hours playing Wii Sports with her, that's fine and almost admirable.

[Hyudra]

Generally speaking, I game a lot, but I haven't found it impacts my day to day life. I work from home, on the phone constantly, and I game while I work, or I alt-tab from work to gaming and back again several times a minute. It's just how I find I operate best, venting stress and keeping myself from getting bored. At the end of the day, I have a great relationship with my significant other (who doesn't game, like, at all) and best friend, who I support while one goes to school and the other gets her life back on track.

All that said, I have seen video gaming addiction hit hard, and it hit pretty close to home. I had a very good friend, who I used to call my best friend, and I'd say he succumbed to gaming addiction. We started playing World of Warcraft together nearly from launch and I could never keep up with him, which led to my getting frustrated and quitting within a few months of starting. I later found out he was sleeping only 4-5 hours a night, and his brother was playing his account while he slept. He did badly enough at school, at the same time, that his parents refused to help him out any more. He eventually moved out into a one bedroom apartment that he shared with three other friends while working part time.

I wasn't able to have a conversation with him that wasn't about the games he was playing (Blizzard games, which I've never had much of a taste for), and we just drifted apart. I visited him once (a four hour trip) and aside from one point where we went to a movie, I just watched him play Starcraft for five days. It was horribly disappointing, because this was a guy I used to spend every minute I wasn't in school with.

Was it video gaming specifically? Dunno. But it's an easy trap to fall into, especially with games designed to suck up your time and offering those quick and easy rewards and satisfaction when life is demanding that same time & offers less in the way of immediate payoff.

[warty goblin]

To be honest, I'm about to take this exactly the way Sipex warned it could be taken. Why? Because that's how it was written, and I think warty goblin is literate enough to keep his intentions from being mistaken.

I am in fact literate enough to generally say what I mean to say. This does not mean my audience always correctly understands what I am saying, which seems to be the case here.


Does gaming require as much effort as, say, running or mountain climbing? No. And I have to resist the urge to spit when I play against someone claiming they're MLG or "pro gamer". But you seem to take a derisive stance against it entirely. You entirely neglect the spirit of competition present in the most popular games today. Let's look at the top selling games of 2010.
I never mentioned competition, because frankly it has nothing to do with my argument, or really any relation to whether or not an activity is worthwhile. I believe I stated my argument fairly succinctly although apparently not clearly enough, so let me try again.

There is nothing wrong with gaming as a hobby. However given some basic facts about game design it seems to me to have higher odds of moving from healthy leisure activity to unhealthy obsession than a lot of others. Further, and I think fairly obviously in contrast to quite a few other hobbies, playing games produces nothing beyond the satisfaction of playing them. Again, there's nothing wrong with that - not many people are, want to be, or should be, productive every waking minute - but it is worth pointing out.


So why do you seem to consider gaming an illegitimate hobby, based on what you said later in the post despite what you claimed earlier in that same post?
Because I don't consider it as such, and you're misinterpreting what I stated as evidence for my thesis for my thesis?


There is no Physical Exertion

The highest selling console is the Wii, a console centered around the use of motion to play video games. This was so succesful that Sony and Microsoft scrambled to develop their own mo-cap technologies. Its easy to break a sweat playing at least half of the best selling games of 2010. Even if this statement held true in all cases, I point you towards other hobbies that would fall under this judgement. Any board games. Any games, really. Cards. Reading. Painting. Sketching. Casual music. Listening to music. Dungeons and Dragons.
Did I ever say physical exertion is required for a hobby to be 'legitimate'? If I did, please tell me where, because I certainly don't recall saying that. I said games don't require much in the way of physical exertion, which is, with the partial exception of motion controls you correctly pointed out, pretty much true.


Its Entirely Mindless
Hardly. If you're constantly playing games that require no thought, you're probably a little bit of an idiot. Even without considering the entire genres of RPG and RTS games, even the most brainless seeming games should be played while awake. I notice a huge drop in my scores when tired, even if I'm just as quick to respond. Its because I can't think clearly. In an average game of halo, I have to keep track of seven other players whom I normally can't see, budget my usage of active camouflage, watch three chokepoints and judge which one I should pay most attention to, all the while dodging grenades I can't see and poking my head out to recap the current situation around me. And my playstyle is arguably the most mindless of all. Though I don't play MMO's, I used to play WoW and challenge you to find a greater exercise in resource management than being a healer for a multiman raid
I never said that. I said games are easy to pick up compared to a lot of other hobbies. Given that you need to flick a switch and put a disk in a drive, I think this statement is factually fairly unassailable.



Cheating is Easy.

The days of the konami code are mostly over, friend. The majority of Wii games do not support cheats, and the cheats that do exist are more or less useless because the console is less achievement driven than its competitors. Cheats survive in some Xbox and PS3 games, but I've noticed something in many of the most cheat-friendly games. They disable achievements. Thus, that entire sense of accomplishment is gone. I won't lie. It feels good to see that little message pop up to let me know I have 100 more irrelevant points to add to a pointless number. Using a cheat is, in most cases, counterproductive to those of us who do enjoy the accomplishment. To cheat online is tantamount to a foot bullet. Multiplayer games are monitored, and cheaters don't go long before being banned, costing themselves a huge chunk of the appeal of a sixty dollar investment. How often do you successfully keep a friend or family member from playing a game because they always cheat? Cheating can happen in any hobby. You can buy a model plane and say you built it. You can steal money from the monopoly bank. You can keep an ace up your sleeve in poker. You can lie and say you read war and peace because it impresses people.
I said cheating is available, which it is in a lot of singleplayer games. Again, pretty much a statement of fact. The brunt of that bit of my argument however was that success in games tends to be somewhat cheapened by the bit where they are designed for one to succeed. Again, pretty much a fact of singleplayer games. Even in multiplayer titles, look at the spread of unlocks based on XP - even when you lose a match you still get stuff, and thus are succeeding, or at least being rewarded, by the game.


Vidya Games Fill your Mind with Useless Fantasy.

Though I hesitate to call video games a true art form, there are many mediums out there that fail to do anything productive. I could just as easily argue that the Louvre should be razed or that architecture should be cheap and efficient as claim that the lush, imaginative worlds that are becoming more common in games are completely pointless. The imagination is a powerful tool, a spark for the flames of invention and ingenuity. Don't neglect it. Or shall we toss out fiction novels when we dispose of Mass Effect?
OK, this I really never said. As far as I can tell, I never hinted at, insinuated or otherwise suggested such an argument, which really makes me wonder why you bring this up. At least your other rebuttals are to arguments containing the same words I used, but this one isn't even that.


Anyone can Beat Any Game Given Time.

I think several of the above points also apply to this one. I'll be the first to acknowledge that games as a whole have gotten easier. But to say its only a matter of time and you can beat any game is pretty ignorant. Perhaps you can put three monkeys in a room with a typewriter and eventually get Shakespeare. But you likely won't not in a reasonable amount of time. Yes, if you play a level a million times over without improving your strategy or skill, you may get through on dumb luck. But not before failing countless times. Games these days are rarely ever finished, either, thanks to DLC and easter eggs and sidequests. Perhaps a five year old could beat Fallout, given 1000 hours. But perhaps in that same 1000 hours, a legless man can win an ass-kicking contest when his opponents trip over themselves.
I said games are designed to be beaten. I think that's a fairly obvious statement of fact, since, let's be honest here, a singleplayer game that couldn't be beaten would be considered absolute crap. I also recall typing words to the effect that games usually reward success. It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that the combination of an activity that is designed for the user to succeed at, and that then rewards success is more attractive to the average person than one in which failure is a very real possibility, and success less enthusiastically rewarded.

There's also the question of what failure means. If you can't write a good novel, run a marathon, or knit a complicated sweater, those are all personal failings. The risk to one's self esteem is high there, since nobody likes to find out they aren't good enough. It is however pretty easy to write off failing to succeed at a a game as a problem with the game, rather than the player.



So how does this relate to the topic? Simple. I agree with people who say that gaming, like any hobby, needs to be partaken in responsibly. I also agree that, relative to some hobbies, it can be a massive money pit. But to say that it is inherently less healthy or more damaging to bodies and relationships is unfair, and can be applied to any hobby in excess. Rather than say "video games are unhealthy", you should be looking at what you're playing, what your situation is, how you play it, and who you are. If Todd spends 100 hours playing DOA Beach Volleyball when he has a supermodel in bed, there is something wrong. But if he spends those 100 hours playing Wii Sports with her, that's fine and almost admirable.

I never mentioned money, so you can hardly agree with me on that score. Nor did I say it was more damaging to relationships or bodies, so disagreement there also seems problematic.

Again, all I said was that I suspect games are more likely than other hobbies to lead to excess, and that they do not produce a lot in the way of real world results. Both of these are positions one could disagree with. A counter argument to the first however would probably start by looking at real world benefits of gaming. To counter the second I'd imagine one would look at things like the very large numbers of people who play games quite casually and clearly not to excess, or presenting evidence that lots of other hobbies are more likely to lead to overindulgence.

You however aren't saying anything like that. Instead you're arguing against a position that gaming is inherently bad and illegitimate. None of these are things which I said. In fact I believe I opened the post you snipped by saying pretty much the opposite. Given that I clearly stated my argument in the first sentence of that post, I find it hard to believe my thesis was unclear. Since you say I'm smart enough to write what I mean to write, I think it fair to say you concur on this point.

Nor is it even a necessary logical deduction from my argument that gaming is bad. One can after all consider alcohol a more addicting beverage than orange juice in a reasonably large population, and drinking to excess a bad thing, without viewing the occasional beer as harmful in the slightest. Just so here, simply because I argue that gaming is more likely than knitting or jogging to have seriously adverse effects doesn't mean I think there's something wrong with people who spend a couple hours a week playing Call of Duty.

[Sipex]

This alone displays my point though. While trying to make your original case you came off very hostile to anyone who isn't 100% understanding and prepared to listen. Not to say the poster is addicted mind you, that's for people he knows, but he definitely likes games...that is undeniable.

It is very easy to take your original case (and Lord's) as an attack on the hobby and those who play it. You didn't say or even mean most of those things said but it was possible to gather the implication from them and the tone of some of the words used. Those that weren't even possible to imply from the pure words you used get added on regardless by the defender as their mind demonizes you (as the percieved attacker now) in order to make it easier for them to defend their case.

While not the actual topic itself (stories of losing friends to gaming) it is still relevant because for those you want to help with an addiction you'll have to confront the same way and they're going to be very defensive. You need to make a case which isn't going to seem hostile or you won't be listened to at all.

[warty goblin]

This alone displays my point though. While trying to make your original case you came off very hostile to anyone who isn't 100% understanding and prepared to listen. Not to say the poster is addicted mind you, that's for people he knows, but he definitely likes games...that is undeniable.

It is very easy to take your original case (and Lord's) as an attack on the hobby and those who play it. You didn't say or even mean most of those things said but it was possible to gather the implication from them and the tone of some of the words used. Those that weren't even possible to imply from the pure words you used get added on regardless by the defender as their mind demonizes you (as the percieved attacker now) in order to make it easier for them to defend their case.

While not the actual topic itself (stories of losing friends to gaming) it is still relevant because for those you want to help with an addiction you'll have to confront the same way and they're going to be very defensive. You need to make a case which isn't going to seem hostile or you won't be listened to at all.

My thinking is that if somebody is so defensive they somehow interpret the quite clear thesis statement that there's nothing wrong with gaming I put in my very first sentence, as an argument saying gaming is bad, that's entirely their problem.

Now I have no issue with people disagreeing with my argument that gaming is more likely to lead to excessive indulgence than other hobbies. I may or may not agree with any counter-arguments presented, but debate on that topic bothers me not in the slightest. After all, if I wasn't interested in such conversation, it's a safe bet I wouldn't have posted it.

Since Ursus' response has nothing to do with what I actually posted however, something else is clearly going on. It could be the case that I simply did not write very clearly, but after rereading my post several times I do not believe this is the case. I clearly state my argument in the beginning, Ursus acknowledged that I said I do not think gaming is a bad thing, there's simply no evidence for misunderstanding.

Instead I'm forced to conclude that Ursus deliberately chose to interpret what I had said as something completely different to what I actually wrote. I suspect a serious case of over-defensiveness, but I'm not sure I actually care all that much why. I do not tolerate my arguments being willfully twisted into stupid, poorly thought out cliches to be hung out for some route target practice. Whether because he couldn't come up with a counter-argument for what I actually said, couldn't handle any criticism of gaming, or simply didn't read carefully enough, misrepresenting your opposition so they can be easily be dismissed is shameful as far as I'm concerned.

[Ursus the Grim]

Irrelevant debate post in spoiler.


I am in fact literate enough to generally say what I mean to say. This does not mean my audience always correctly understands what I am saying, which seems to be the case here.

What a wonderful, insulting counter to what I had hoped to open on a respectable note with.


I never mentioned competition, because frankly it has nothing to do with my argument, or really any relation to whether or not an activity is worthwhile. I believe I stated my argument fairly succinctly although apparently not clearly enough, so let me try again.

Competition is a major factor in any hobby. Competition in a game directly increases the amount of mental or physical effort expended while playing. In a hobby without competition, many factors change. For instance, any idiot can throw a ball through a hoop given time and space. The addition of other players, some opposing, turns that one idiot and that ball into a game of basketball.


There is nothing wrong with gaming as a hobby. However given some basic facts about game design it seems to me to have higher odds of moving from healthy leisure activity to unhealthy obsession than a lot of others. Further, and I think fairly obviously in contrast to quite a few other hobbies, playing games produces nothing beyond the satisfaction of playing them. Again, there's nothing wrong with that - not many people are, want to be, or should be, productive every waking minute - but it is worth pointing out.

This is a fair enough point, and I'd only really argue with the fact that you are using blanket statements and generalizations. To be fair, so have I. For instance. If gaming is an unhealthy hobby, it is essentially a vice. Compared to the vices of drugs, alcoholism, hookers, and physical violence, it is a much less harmful vice.


Because I don't consider it as such, and you're misinterpreting what I stated as evidence for my thesis for my thesis?

If the evidence does not reflect your thesis, than either your evidence is flawed or your thesis is. Choose one. Your personal views are not being questioned, your thesis is. Perhaps I shall be clearer next time.


Did I ever say physical exertion is required for a hobby to be 'legitimate'? If I did, please tell me where, because I certainly don't recall saying that. I said games don't require much in the way of physical exertion, which is, with the partial exception of motion controls you correctly pointed out, pretty much true.


The other thing is that games are designed to make the player feel good about themselves, without really having to do anything. By adding lots of awesome stuff and talking the player up, games give a big sense of accomplishment when nothing has been accomplished, no real effort expended, and no difficulty encountered. Hey look, I saved the world again because I'm awesome, nevermind that all I did was sit on my ass clicking buttons for twenty hours in order to 'beat' something designed for me to win.

Basically most games provide a very easy way to feel good about yourself for accomplishing something minus any of the actual work and productivity that real accomplishment requires. This, to me, makes them unlike hobbies like athletics, where accomplishment requires real, sustained effort. If I want to run a seven minute mile I've got to train hard and maybe I can't do it.

Now you could argue that effort is not necessarily physical exertion. But given the way you stated your 'evidence' and then wrapped it up with an analogy to running makes me believe that you weren't entirely ignorant to how it sounded. Or are we now about to argue semantics. By saying gaming is easy, simple, and a pointless hobby, it certainly sounds like you mean to toss illegitimate in there too. *shrug*


I never said that. I said games are easy to pick up compared to a lot of other hobbies. Given that you need to flick a switch and put a disk in a drive, I think this statement is factually fairly unassailable.

But if you're claiming games require no effort, that has to include mental effort, by virtue of your highlighting the lack of physical activity. The "mindless" statement is inherent in your reply by your insistence on "effortless".

Easy to pick up? Really? Granted, the wii has made some steps towards being accessible to more people, but have you handed your controller to anyone above the age of 40 or below 10 lately? I learned to crochet and knit a lot more easily than my father learned to play Brain Age. Though that could be a different problem altogether. :smallamused:

Regardless, the ease at which one can learn to game is irrelevant towards determining its worth as a hobby. Now, if you are relating it back to its tendency towards addiction, I could see your point. Would you rather games be less accessible so less innocent lives get roped in?


I said cheating is available, which it is in a lot of singleplayer games. Again, pretty much a statement of fact. The brunt of that bit of my argument however was that success in games tends to be somewhat cheapened by the bit where they are designed for one to succeed. Again, pretty much a fact of singleplayer games. Even in multiplayer titles, look at the spread of unlocks based on XP - even when you lose a match you still get stuff, and thus are succeeding, or at least being rewarded, by the game.

Really? Factually unassailable? You stated your position, so I believe you're the one obligated to provide facts. I'll throw you a bone to get us started. I just went over to gamefaqs.com and skimmed through the top ten games. One contained glitches relating to singleplayer. That is not "a lot." Also, "a lot" =/= "most", and thus can not be used for a "statement of fact". Its not a statement of fact just because you stated it. Most modern games have removed cheats (especially intentional ones) entirely. This is mostly because of the introduction of achievements/trophies.

Based on your assumptions, I have to assume you're a PC gamer, a singleplayer only fellow, or both. PC gaming is a whole 'nother beast, and in many cases it is the fanbase who creates the cheats and mods.

On to multiplayer. While it does give the players a consolation prize for losing or performing poorly, better players move up much faster. Halo: Reach, for instance, gives players some experience for playing. Win or lose. But the weekly challenge gives approximately five times the average gained from a multiplayer game. I'm not good enough to do it. So that huge boost to experience is not available for me, as a result of my lack of skill. The contracts of Call of Duty give much more experience for more difficult contracts, in addition to the xp better players earn anyway. Battlefield 2 gives no consolation xp, you only get what you earn through kills, objectives, and support. Halo Wars rates your combat efficiency, your resource management, and your technology progress to give you xp. I played a game last night. It was a close fight, because he continued to spam weak units ineffectually. I walked away with 12000 points. He received 900 points. I also know of a handful of games for which there are no xp systems online, such as Left 4 Dead, Team Fortress 2, GTA IV, and the Pokemon series.

If I give little Suzy a ring pop for a grade of C and little Emily five ring pops for a grade of A, should little Suzy still feel rewarded? Perhaps. But she is going to be jealous of Emily and work to get those pops.


OK, this I really never said. As far as I can tell, I never hinted at, insinuated or otherwise suggested such an argument, which really makes me wonder why you bring this up. At least your other rebuttals are to arguments containing the same words I used, but this one isn't even that.

Fair enough. I apologize for that. One less thing to discuss.


I said games are designed to be beaten. I think that's a fairly obvious statement of fact, since, let's be honest here, a singleplayer game that couldn't be beaten would be considered absolute crap. I also recall typing words to the effect that games usually reward success. It doesn't seem unreasonable to think that the combination of an activity that is designed for the user to succeed at, and that then rewards success is more attractive to the average person than one in which failure is a very real possibility, and success less enthusiastically rewarded.

There's also the question of what failure means. If you can't write a good novel, run a marathon, or knit a complicated sweater, those are all personal failings. The risk to one's self esteem is high there, since nobody likes to find out they aren't good enough. It is however pretty easy to write off failing to succeed at a a game as a problem with the game, rather than the player.

You singleplayer point is valid. This is why multiplayer is almost required on many modern games. The multiplayer games sell best, and the multiplayer aspect is much more difficult to beat. There is only one player who is the best.

Blaming the game only goes so far. You could just as easily blame the puzzle, , or your DM, or your muse, or your training coach. For most multiplayers, people either try to get better, accept their status, or find a game they are better at. I don't play shooters after sunset because I find my reaction time slows and I make more mistakes. I'm sure I'm not the only player who has had to acknowledge issues with their skill. And failure stings more in games than in most other hobbies. Especially when that failure is coated in insult by someone crouching over your face after they grenade you out of your camping corner.


I never mentioned money, so you can hardly agree with me on that score. Nor did I say it was more damaging to relationships or bodies, so disagreement there also seems problematic.

Again, all I said was that I suspect games are more likely than other hobbies to lead to excess, and that they do not produce a lot in the way of real world results. Both of these are positions one could disagree with. A counter argument to the first however would probably start by looking at real world benefits of gaming. To counter the second I'd imagine one would look at things like the very large numbers of people who play games quite casually and clearly not to excess, or presenting evidence that lots of other hobbies are more likely to lead to overindulgence.

You however aren't saying anything like that. Instead you're arguing against a position that gaming is inherently bad and illegitimate. None of these are things which I said. In fact I believe I opened the post you snipped by saying pretty much the opposite. Given that I clearly stated my argument in the first sentence of that post, I find it hard to believe my thesis was unclear. Since you say I'm smart enough to write what I mean to write, I think it fair to say you concur on this point.

Nor is it even a necessary logical deduction from my argument that gaming is bad. One can after all consider alcohol a more addicting beverage than orange juice in a reasonably large population, and drinking to excess a bad thing, without viewing the occasional beer as harmful in the slightest. Just so here, simply because I argue that gaming is more likely than knitting or jogging to have seriously adverse effects doesn't mean I think there's something wrong with people who spend a couple hours a week playing Call of Duty.

The post I made outside the spoiler box was a statement relating to the topic, not to what you had said. I don't disagree with the majority of the last quote.

Misrepresenting what you said as poorly thought out cliches? Unfortunately, thats what most of them were, when stripped of the fluff you had cloaked them in. I would appreciate it if we could refrain from defaming one another. If you have anything else to say on the matter, please pm me instead of sullying this thread any further.

Back on topic, do we think any specific genre has a higher chance of addiction? It seems the common consensus is MMO, the Warcrack effect. I think that's only the most evident because of how Warcraft dominates that genre. If more people played different MMOs, I think the chance of addiction would be far less obvious.

[Zorg]

a singleplayer game that couldn't be beaten would be considered absolute crap.

I don't know, Zantar was very popular in the early '90s.


-



On topic: seen it happen in various forms, and it's not pleasant.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Back on topic, do we think any specific genre has a higher chance of addiction? It seems the common consensus is MMO, the Warcrack effect. I think that's only the most evident because of how Warcraft dominates that genre. If more people played different MMOs, I think the chance of addiction would be far less obvious.

It's not WoW that makes me think MMO's are addictive, it's all those horror stories out of places like Korea regarding games I've never heard of otherwise that seem to be built towards addiction.

Cracked did an article on it a while ago too, iirc.

[Serpentine]

Cracked did an article on it a while ago too, iirc.I was going to mention that.
Yes, as that article described, MMOs (and other games - many of them are very visible in League of Legends, for example) have a whole bunch of strategies and "features" specifically designed to keep the player coming back and coming back all the time, even after it stops actually being fun. WoW is the best known of these, and (from what I understand - I've never played it and probably never will specifically because I'm worried about getting "hooked" on it) it prominently features every one of these techniques. Without a doubt other games do the exact same things as well. MMOs just have a greater potential, for the company, to keep reining the customer back and wringing out drop after drop of money from them that most other game genres.

[GolemsVoice]

Amusingly enough, I actually FOUND my girlfriend through WoW. We had great fun together in whispers, and made a good team, so one day I just took all my never and asked if we could meet. And voila, there we are. I find that now I play WoW more to be close to her, and it becomes dull more easily when she's not online, so I turn it off. Meeting with her online is very important to me, since, though we of course try to see each other in RL as often as possible, she still lives about 1 1/2 hours from my parents, and 3 hours from where I study, so we don't get to see each other quite as often as we like to.

Even so, I try to find a happy medium between computer time and other activities. My rule is that RL is always more important than gaming. I do go on raids with my guild, so at least some evenings are reserved, and I have to know if somebody wants to do something with me a bit in advance, so I can cancel the raid without causing trouble for my raid leader.

[BDuncan]

Interesting comments.

[Daverin]

Well, I have as yet to lose a partner (having never had one so far), or see anyone lose a partner because of gaming addictions. To be fair, though, of anyone I know, I'm sure I'd be the first to do it if somebody was going to.

I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is, video games are one of the most constantly interactive activities you can find. Many people call them "mindless." Uh, no. That is almost stupendously wrong. The very danger of them is that the mind if engaged in a way that almost no other activity I can think of can do. For example, whenever I walk, lift weights, read a book, play chess, play with legos, or doodle, I am always able to divert my thoughts to something else. Even TV, gaming's close cousin, does not divert my attention so bad that I am not aware of what is around me. But gaming, now that activity can take up so much mental focus, so much attention that you forget what is going on around you. This, more than anything else, even the reward mechanics of many games nowadays, is what can keep a person hooked.

[Starwulf]

Interesting comments.


Well, I have as yet to lose a partner (having never had one so far), or see anyone lose a partner because of gaming addictions. To be fair, though, of anyone I know, I'm sure I'd be the first to do it if somebody was going to.

I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is, video games are one of the most constantly interactive activities you can find. Many people call them "mindless." Uh, no. That is almost stupendously wrong. The very danger of them is that the mind if engaged in a way that almost no other activity I can think of can do. For example, whenever I walk, lift weights, read a book, play chess, play with legos, or doodle, I am always able to divert my thoughts to something else. Even TV, gaming's close cousin, does not divert my attention so bad that I am not aware of what is around me. But gaming, now that activity can take up so much mental focus, so much attention that you forget what is going on around you. This, more than anything else, even the reward mechanics of many games nowadays, is what can keep a person hooked.

Did neither of you two happen to notice the date on this? N-N-Necromancy!

[Daverin]

Well... We all slip up once in a while! :smallredface: