How do you make a good optimized wizard?

[Gamer Girl]

In the game yesterday, the two wizard characters had a big problem. They were optimized for combat, but nothing else. So when a fight came along, they could do great effects, but the rest of the game, they just sat there.

They asked my about it after the game, and i did try to make some suggestions. However my ideas would make them 'less tough'.

So how do you do it? How to you make a powerful, optimized wizard that can do more then combat..but is still good at combat?

The Wizards in question are an Evoker and a Transmuter, both are 6th level and elves, they both have spell focus, greater spell focus, and improved initiative, the evoker has empower spell and the transmuter has extend spell.

[Cog]

A wider variety of spells selected can help; for that, consult any of the dozens of handbooks floating around. For skills, there are feats in places such as DMG2 and Cityscape that allow access to social skills; a general list of ways to get class skills can be found here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6832.0).

[Yora]

6th level is generally considered to be the point where spellcasters in general and wizards and sorcerers in particular are really starting to show their full potential. Up to that point, they are not really that great.
So I'd recommend not to start looking into real high power optimization yet and rather see if this problem starts going away by itself once you reach 8th or 9th level.

My suggestion would be to learn more about non direct damage spells. There are lots of spells that make a far bigger impact in a fight that direct damage spells, but their usefulness isn't as obvious at the first sight.

[tyckspoon]

The Evoker is probably a lost cause, because what they both need is to reset their spell selections for better efficiency.. but with Greater Spell Focus and Empower, he's probably just in it to blow stuff up and won't be willing to drop any of his load of Fireballs/Scorching Rays/Magic Missiles.

[HalfDragonCube]

I'm guessing that the evoker is a blaster and the transmuter is a buffer.

With a d4 hit dice being 'tough' is not any wizard's forte.

Transmuters have a wide variety of utility spells that are just as useful in combat as they are outside of it. Shrink item can be absolutely hilarious and effective. Try casting it on a caltrop, then slip it into food. In fact, just make a bag of readily available shrunken caltrops for use whenever you need them.

The evoker might be more interested in the warmage class. Much more blasting. Still probably a lost cause, but much more blasting. The tiny hut spell is niche, but useful when you encounter bad weather and need somewhere to sleep.

Try to get hold of some utility spells via scrolls.

[Ernir]

What were the situations that actually caused them to "just sit there"?

There is probably a spell for that situation.

[HalfDragonCube]

What were the situations that actually caused them to "just sit there"?

There is probably a spell for that situation.

Provided they didn't drop Illusion, Conjuration or Transmutation, there is a spell for every situation.

Even just standing up.

[Gamer Girl]

What were the situations that actually caused them to "just sit there"?

There is probably a spell for that situation.

Well, that is half of it right there. They only have combat spells. That is spells that do direct hit point damage or close to it.

And a lot of their spellslots are taken up with metamagic feats. Two or three empowered magic missiles or Extended Alter Selfs.


Then generally have a problem with anything except combat. For example, opening a locked door. They don't want to take a spell slot for something like knock, so they just wait around.

[Aspenor]

Being unable to open a locked door means they haven't optimized at all. Knock is wholly unnecessary.

[Zaq]

Well, that is half of it right there. They only have combat spells. That is spells that do direct hit point damage or close to it.

And a lot of their spellslots are taken up with metamagic feats. Two or three empowered magic missiles or Extended Alter Selfs.


Then generally have a problem with anything except combat. For example, opening a locked door. They don't want to take a spell slot for something like knock, so they just wait around.

Ah. Their problem is that they don't use their spells judiciously enough. A proper Wizzie doesn't need to cast a spell every round. Two or three properly placed spells will get you through an encounter. If you need something to fiddle with every turn (and saying "nah, I'll just wait" round after round can get annoying, even if you've already won the encounter for your team), take reserve feats or get some magic items. You don't have to devote all of your spells to combat if you do it right. They need to learn how to make the spells they do have do what they want them to do.

Also, a Wizard can leave slots open (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#wizardSpellSelectionandPreparatio n) and prepare exactly what they need in just 15 minutes. That's a fairly long time in certain situations, but when the party's taking a breather in a dungeon? You can totally whip out your spellbook and say "Aha, I thought we might need Knock today! [prep prep prep]" or "Man, that last fight took a lot out of me! Better prep the rest of my combat spells. [prep prep prep]" Very useful ability, that.

[Barlen]

My first thought is this a roleplaying issue, but maybe not.

The mage of the arcane order PrC might help (but if they are already 6th they dont get the feat slot needed till 9th). It allows them to leave a few low level spell slots open that they can later summon any spell of that level they would be helpful for the situation (roughly a 1 round delay, but you were talking out of combat anyway).

[Barlen]

Another thought as they develop, take a reserve feat and free up some lower level spells slots for utility. Keep 1 high level spell slot (5+) filled with lets say a fire based spell and use Fiery Burst to drop a 5+d6 burst every round that only requires the one spell slot to power it. Probably not that great till at least 9th.

Also, shatter is a great spell in or out of combat =)

[Zaq]

Another thought as they develop, take a reserve feat and free up some lower level spells slots for utility. Keep 1 high level spell slot (5+) filled with lets say a fire based spell and use Fiery Burst to drop a 5+d6 burst every round that only requires the one spell slot to power it. Probably not that great till at least 9th.

Also, shatter is a great spell in or out of combat =)

Actually, reserve feats are best at lower levels. By high levels, you have enough spells that you really can cast every round without running out.

[Geigan]

Wizards are sort of like the toolboxes of D&D. A good wizard has the tool he needs for every situation he can think of(though that spell book can get pretty weighty if they REALLY try to think of everything). My first question when playing a wizard is not what can I do, but what can the other party members do. A wizard is at his most useful in a team when he can provide for the situations that the party is normally ill prepared for. Sure, any wizard can do damage, but when you lack a rogue there's really no one to open that locked door unless you have knock prepared. If a role is filled already they don't need to take a spell that can fill said role. Simple as that. Let the people specialized for that job do it. If the puzzle/problem at hand requires something that the party doesn't have on hand the wizard should be able to conjure something up. It's all about preparation which really is the defining trait of a good wizard. They can literally turn the battle with one well placed spell(not necessarily a combat one either). If they need to feel useful every turn the reserve feats mentioned above aren't quite as impressive as say chain lightning, but they can give them something to contribute the rest of the time after they've thrown down something that they can see did the job well enough to turn the tide.



Also, a Wizard can leave slots open (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#wizardSpellSelectionandPreparatio n) and prepare exactly what they need in just 15 minutes. That's a fairly long time in certain situations, but when the party's taking a breather in a dungeon? You can totally whip out your spellbook and say "Aha, I thought we might need Knock today! [prep prep prep]" or "Man, that last fight took a lot out of me! Better prep the rest of my combat spells. [prep prep prep]" Very useful ability, that.


^this. An unused spell slot can potentially be the spell for every situation.

So yeah, a bit verbose but that's what I'd say to a player looking for advice on a wizard. Diversify. Also make sure to share spellbooks in the party. Two wizards means plenty of spells to go around.

[Doc Roc]

What's that, Uncanny Forethought? You're sad no one's mentioned you?

Hah, but you see, I have tricked you, Forethought. You are mentioned now.
If you would like, I can talk to them about their spell lists. I don't much do builds for posting on the forum anymore, but this, at least, I can help with.

On the other hand, the ever-excellent guides to being batman (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.giantitp.com%2Fforums%2Fshowt hread.php%3Ft%3D104002&ei=UIavTbPfObLWiAL8wpCwBg&usg=AFQjCNHWgC-z0xtgHSlYUDxofxvBqKWw5A) and developing a god complex (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God) may be enough.

[Aspenor]

I just noticed they are both elves, too. Ouch.

[Doc Roc]

I just noticed they are both elves, too. Ouch.

Eh, races is the most piddling of concerns in this. The feat would have been nice, but whatever. At least neither of them has 4 fighter levels.

[jguy]

From what was previously said, this seems like an RP kind of thing. What are they having trouble with exactly outside of a locked door? Are NPC's withholding information needed? Are there puzzles they cannot get around? Travel a problem?

A locked door can be handled with mundane items easily, depending on what they are made of of course. Acid flasks, alchemist fire, a crowbar, a slashing weapon and a lot of time.

What are their banned schools? I hope they picked in ways that they have access to all of them between the two of them.

[Doc Roc]

From what was previously said, this seems like an RP kind of thing. What are they having trouble with exactly outside of a locked door? Are NPC's withholding information needed? Are there puzzles they cannot get around? Travel a problem?

A locked door can be handled with mundane items easily, depending on what they are made of of course. Acid flasks, alchemist fire, a crowbar, a slashing weapon and a lot of time.

What are their banned schools? I hope they picked in ways that they have access to all of them between the two of them.

I hope not, myself, but I really hate enchantment, as a school.