Combat Uses for Commoners

[Redland Jack]

For a fairly cheap price, I could hire a 1st level commoner (or 3 1st level commoners if I really wanted to) to travel around with our gang.

I was thinking it might be funny (albeit probably not overly useful) to bring one along and maybe have him heavily armored (maybe splint mail and a tower shield). I mean, that'd give him -17 to hit, but he'd have a solid 20 AC and could help with flanking.

When he gets to 3rd level, I could have him learn distracting attack, give him a whip, and he'd be a mighty source of giving +1 to hit bonuses.

Are there any good uses for commoners in combat? Handing stuff to combatants? Using the heal check to keep people from bleeding to death? Just hoping to roll a 20 with a crossbow?

[Moriato]

You can animate dead after they die. That's about it, assuming none of them are chicken infested or anything like that.

[Drglenn]

Literal meat shields: stack enough of them up and they'll block most stuff
Bonus: they'll be just as useful after they die, just much less mobile and slighlty more smelly

[RandomLunatic]

If they mill around the Fighter in combat, you can get a version of the Bag O' Rats trick going. And the commoners are easier to hit!

[MarkusWolfe]

Combat Uses for Commoners?

Highly inefficient meatshields, ladders, weights and ramps the lot of them.

[Greenish]

You could slaughter them wholesale for sweet, sweet essentia.

What, evil? But of course!

[holywhippet]

Give them throwable items like holy water, alchemists fire, tanglefoot bags (or just oil flasks and torches) and have them lob them when required - most throwable items are ranged touch attacks so they won't need a natural 20.

Give them some healing potions - if a character goes down have them drag them to safety and pour a potion down their throat.

Nets can be used to entangle people, they also only require a ranged touch attack.

[awa]

i prefer lassos to nets because if they miss they don't need to refold it.

it takes a full round action to try and get out of a lasso so if he wants to get rid of the penalty it takes an action. A commoner spending his action to remove the action of a foe is a good deal.

even better have him ride a cow and attach the lasso to the cow that way the cow can make the trip attack for him with its higher strength and size.

(i have a mounted pc who pulls out this trick whenever we fight something immune to arrows although its a dire bat instead of a cow)

[Cog]

A Dragonfire Inspiration War Chanter can turn them into lethal glass cannons.

[Redland Jack]

So the general consensus is that commoners are unsalvageably bad.

However, the idea to use items with a ranged touch attack does seem to be a good one. The oil flask and torch item is unreliable, but very cheap, which is appealing.

The net is also an interesting idea, since the commoner could even take exotic proficiency in the net at 3rd level to get rid of the -4 penalty. (I'm less sure about the lasso, only because I pretty much only know SRD!)

Dragonfire Inspiration is out (our game has a book restriction), but the cow idea might work (not sure how it'd be indoors/underground etc., but those are just details!)

[awa]

lassos are in book of exalted deeds. but nets work to

[Hiro Protagonest]

I was thinking it might be funny (albeit probably not overly useful) to bring one along and maybe have him heavily armored (maybe splint mail and a tower shield). I mean, that'd give him -17 to hit, but he'd have a solid 20 AC and could help with flanking.

When he gets to 3rd level, I could have him learn distracting attack, give him a whip, and he'd be a mighty source of giving +1 to hit bonuses.

This is probably the only one where the commoners won't just flat out not accept the job. And it's actually a pretty good idea, even at level 7 or so.

[Thurbane]

Buy them helmets and load them in a catapult. Call them the Flying Zucchini Brothers.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Buy them helmets and load them in a catapult. Call them the Flying Zucchini Brothers.

They wouldn't accept that job. Commoners have families, you know. And that doesn't mean you can hire the whole family.

[Bang!]

spam marbles

take full cover behind tower shields and move around blocking line of sight and otherwise modifying terrain without exposing their squishy bodies

herd dinosaurs

abuse grapple rules to give your party extra movement

pretend to be wizards, as a distraction

use initiative shenanigans to keep a flock of sheep between the party and the baddies whenever the baddies' turns come around.

pretend to be Wizzard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8PdHg84zUE), as a distraction

carry supplies/spend actions drawing and sheathing stuff so the party doesn't have to.

[Redland Jack]

They wouldn't accept that job. Commoners have families, you know. And that doesn't mean you can hire the whole family.

It's funny that you mention that, since that's sort of why I want to hire a commoner... to give them a job so they can earn some gold (not that our game is super heavy into the 'role-playing' aspect, but it can be nice to throw in some flavor). At the same time, of course, if I'm already throwing my money away, if I could get some use out of him/her, that'd be optimal!

Bang- I need to fully look into the rules on Tower Shields. The full concealment seems interesting, I just need to figure out how it completely works mechanically with the shield.

[Vladislav]

They can throw a mean barrage of Tanglefoot Bags. Touch attacks are easy, even for a commoner.

[Strife Warzeal]

They wouldn't accept that job. Commoners have families, you know. And that doesn't mean you can hire the whole family.

Raise their pay to 1 gold a day, that is like 70x what they are used to weekly. They would do literally anything for that kind of pay.

It's not like you can't afford to give 365g for a year of whatever labor you could dream of.

[The Glyphstone]

1) Give them several backpacks loaded up with alchemist's fire flasks, or similar items.

2) Take the Fling Ally feat without telling them.

3) ???

4) Profit!

5) Get a new commoner.

[Tanngrisnir]

Raise their pay to 1 gold a day, that is like 70x what they are used to weekly. They would do literally anything for that kind of pay.

It's not like you can't afford to give 365g for a year of whatever labor you could dream of.

Getting shot out of a catapult is pretty much a certain death job. Being paid a gold a day doesn't add up to much if you only survive one day to be paid.

[Greenish]

Getting shot out of a catapult is pretty much a certain death job. Being paid a gold a day doesn't add up to much if you only survive one day to be paid.So you hire dump commoners. :smalltongue:

[Dsurion]

Bang- I need to fully look into the rules on Tower Shields. The full concealment seems interesting, I just need to figure out how it completely works mechanically with the shield.A shieldbearer is a pretty thematic and useful idea. Oh sure, you kinda look like a coward with someone else blocking the way to your characters, but that road bump can be effective if placed well in the middle of a battle.

[Cog]

A shieldbearer is a pretty thematic and useful idea. Oh sure, you kinda look like a coward with someone else blocking the way to your characters, but that road bump can be effective if placed well in the middle of a battle.
On the other hand, monster with (Great) Cleave may finally get to make use of that feat.

...hire dump commoners. :smalltongue:
I hate my brain for Spoonerizing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoonerism)those first two words. :smallyuk:

[Tanngrisnir]

On the other hand, monster with (Great) Cleave may finally get to make use of that feat.

I hate my brain for Spoonerizing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoonerism)those first two words. :smallyuk:

Dire Hump commoners would be glorious.

[mabriss lethe]

Commoners are not useless, as some might think. They can contribute positively in an encounter. They can't do a lot, and can't do anything unique, but they still have options

One of my current projects is KEVIN. Project KEVIN is an attempt to make a somewhat useful commoner character,aptly named Kevin.

Here are some options for Kevin at various levels.
(this is by no means an exhaustive list)

Skills
-Handle Animal proxies: Handle animal is a class skill for commoners, and you can have them commanding creatures more powerful than they are on the field, Riding dogs are a good low level option, with bigger nastier things later.
-Crafters: Commoners also get Craft as a class skill, Which means they can do your crafting for you. Two big ones here are actually Craft:Trapmaking and craft:painting. Trapmaking is pretty obvious, but why painting? Give them a ready supply of Marvelous Pigments have them make anything you like. (see also: Shapesand)

Equipment
-At low levels, a commoner can throw clubs. They're simple weapons with a 10ft range increment and are free. At those levels, there really isn't a whole lot of difference between a commoner and a fighter in terms of hit %.
-Oil (and later alchemist's fire, acid, etc) as grenade-like weapons.
-Shapesand: If your commoner has a relatively high wisdom score, he can control shapesand for all sorts of fun and amusement. See Trapmaking and let your imagination go wild.
-Boots of Stomping (MiC) are decent low level bits of equipment, dc 13 area attack that knocks opponents prone and deals a little nonlethal damage, not bad for 600 gp
-Gloves of the Uldra savant are neat: ray of frost at will. great if you can get some form of sneak attack damage on them (a high level commoner might qualify for assassin's stance) but probably not worth it if you can't.
-Some other useful items Kevin might employ on the relative cheap: Aberrant sphere, Bag of tricks, Diamondskin Decanter, Hammersphere, rod of frost, rod of fumbling, rod of viscid gobs, thorn pouch, Special note: fountainhead arrows are also useful, since it's still likely that you can hit an AC of 5 even if you're not proficient with the bow.
-Grafts can also give Kevin an edge he wouldn't have already, and also many of them give stacking benefits if you have more of the same type.


Feats:
A commoner needs certain things out of feats, versatility or abilities that scale independent from specific class levels and/or grow more powerful the more you have. These feats are the closest things to class features that they're going to get and you don't get many. Choose wisely.

-The Pact binding line of feats from Tome of Magic: All three can be taken by 5th level (3rd if human) and can grant a commoner a rather flexible list of abilities that can assist a party. Any or all of the feats are solid, and all three are fantastic.

-Utterance feats from Tome of Magic: They're not all that hot, but if you take the feat that gives you truespeech as a class skill, you can get an at-will buff and debuff with a single feat. suffers from all the other problems of the Truenamer. a possibility, but not a good one.

-Heritage feats: These can be pretty good, but require a great deal of dedication, so you won't have much room for anything else. Fey heritage is rather nice, since it leads in to DR/ cold iron and several very useful SLAs (summon a rhino as a 9th level commoner? yes please)

-Aberrant blood feats/Abysal blood feats: Much like heritage feats, they require a great deal of commitment to get the most out of them but they can grant new movement modes, combat improvements, etc. I'm a firm fan of Aberrant blood's Starspawn feat, but otherwise about on par or a little less nice

- Domain feats: These are really nice, each one provides a 1/day ability that scales with HD. For a commoner, the ones that will really matter are things like Good, Evil, and Protection devotion, since you can use them to buff the entire party.

My vote would probably be a mix of Binding and Domain feats

[Thurbane]

Commoners could help with reloading of heavy crossbows...but since the crossbow is a relatively sub par weapon, it would only be kind of useful at lower levels.

[Etrivar]

You could always make a Commoner Rail-Gun.

1: line up a whole bunch of commoners in a straight line (we're talking thousands, the more the distructiver)

2: aim the line at something you want to demolish

3: give an apple sized stone to the first commoner on the opposite side of the line from what you want to obliterate

4: have every commoner ready an action to take the stone from the commoner next to them when it arrives

5: since all of their actions take place in the space of a single round, that rock has to travel the entire distance of the line in the space of only a round, accelerating it to enormous velocity

[Hiro Protagonest]

You could always make a Commoner Rail-Gun.

1: line up a whole bunch of commoners in a straight line (we're talking thousands, the more the distructiver)

2: aim the line at something you want to demolish

3: give an apple sized stone to the first commoner on the opposite side of the line from what you want to obliterate

4: have every commoner ready an action to take the stone from the commoner next to them when it arrives

5: since all of their actions take place in the space of a single round, that rock has to travel the entire distance of the line in the space of only a round, accelerating it to enormous velocity

That doesn't work. D&D doesn't have rules for terminal velocity, and if the DM added a house rule, it would be that it would take far longer than one round to do that.

[Etrivar]

That doesn't work. D&D doesn't have rules for terminal velocity, and if the DM added a house rule, it would be that it would take far longer than one round to do that.

Gee, really? :sarcasticsmiley:

The CRG post was made to be humorous, not a sincere suggestion of what would work

[Jack Zander]

With enough commoners, you can march anywhere, really fast, without getting tired.

1. Have 4 commoners grapple you.

2. Have 4 commoners grapple the 4 commoners grappling you.

3. Repeat until all commoners are engaged in a grapple.

4. On each person's turn, have them make a grapple check to move half-speed, dragging the rest of the group with them. Each other person chooses to fail the check to allow it to succeed.

Congratulations, you and your commoners now move at 15 ft per round per commoner + 1/2 your move speed. Let's say you hired 20 commoners (a small but realistic amount) and you have a normal human base speed. You can now overland travel at a rate of 315 ft per round (35 miles per hour). Not only is this faster than most mounts (and if its not, just add more commoners!) but becuase you are technically in combat the entire time, there are no penalties for forced march! You can even travel straight through the night, as there are no real downsides to losing sleep!

Disclaimer: You will have to stop and water/feed your commoners at least once each day.

EDIT: I just realized the OP asked for combat uses. I guess this doesn't help you in combat at all, but it still does work per RAW.

[Chilingsworth]

Well, I think there are rules for Mobs somewhere (Cityscape, maybe?) If you have enough commoners, you could form them into a mob or two, then use them to trample foes. Of course, you'd then have to control the mob, which might be difficult.

[Ichneumon]

With enough commoners, you can march anywhere, really fast, without getting tired.

1. Have 4 commoners grapple you.

2. Have 4 commoners grapple the 4 commoners grappling you.

3. Repeat until all commoners are engaged in a grapple.

4. On each person's turn, have them make a grapple check to move half-speed, dragging the rest of the group with them. Each other person chooses to fail the check to allow it to succeed.

Congratulations, you and your commoners now move at 15 ft per round per commoner + 1/2 your move speed. Let's say you hired 20 commoners (a small but realistic amount) and you have a normal human base speed. You can now overland travel at a rate of 315 ft per round (35 miles per hour). Not only is this faster than most mounts (and if its not, just add more commoners!) but becuase you are technically in combat the entire time, there are no penalties for forced march! You can even travel straight through the night, as there are no real downsides to losing sleep!

Disclaimer: You will have to stop and water/feed your commoners at least once each day.

EDIT: I just realized the OP asked for combat uses. I guess this doesn't help you in combat at all, but it still does work per RAW.

That's amazing....:smalltongue:

[Hiro Protagonest]

With enough commoners, you can march anywhere, really fast, without getting tired.

1. Have 4 commoners grapple you.

2. Have 4 commoners grapple the 4 commoners grappling you.

3. Repeat until all commoners are engaged in a grapple.

4. On each person's turn, have them make a grapple check to move half-speed, dragging the rest of the group with them. Each other person chooses to fail the check to allow it to succeed.

Congratulations, you and your commoners now move at 15 ft per round per commoner + 1/2 your move speed. Let's say you hired 20 commoners (a small but realistic amount) and you have a normal human base speed. You can now overland travel at a rate of 315 ft per round (35 miles per hour). Not only is this faster than most mounts (and if its not, just add more commoners!) but becuase you are technically in combat the entire time, there are no penalties for forced march! You can even travel straight through the night, as there are no real downsides to losing sleep!

Disclaimer: You will have to stop and water/feed your commoners at least once each day.

EDIT: I just realized the OP asked for combat uses. I guess this doesn't help you in combat at all, but it still does work per RAW.

Now imagine if you rolled over an enemy... :smallamused:

[Kansaschaser]

With enough commoners, you can march anywhere, really fast, without getting tired.

1. Have 4 commoners grapple you.

2. Have 4 commoners grapple the 4 commoners grappling you.

3. Repeat until all commoners are engaged in a grapple.

4. On each person's turn, have them make a grapple check to move half-speed, dragging the rest of the group with them. Each other person chooses to fail the check to allow it to succeed.

Congratulations, you and your commoners now move at 15 ft per round per commoner + 1/2 your move speed. Let's say you hired 20 commoners (a small but realistic amount) and you have a normal human base speed. You can now overland travel at a rate of 315 ft per round (35 miles per hour). Not only is this faster than most mounts (and if its not, just add more commoners!) but becuase you are technically in combat the entire time, there are no penalties for forced march! You can even travel straight through the night, as there are no real downsides to losing sleep!

Disclaimer: You will have to stop and water/feed your commoners at least once each day.

EDIT: I just realized the OP asked for combat uses. I guess this doesn't help you in combat at all, but it still does work per RAW.


All I can picture in my mind is the giant ball of aliens from the "Critters" movie.

[Jack Zander]

Consider this thread... :smallcool: derailed.

YYYYEEEEAAAAHHHH!

[Hazzardevil]

I have the best army ever now since I own an entie nation.

[sengmeng]

Legitimately, 8 commoners could surround the enemy and use the "Aid another" action to give a +16 bonus to your attack (assuming you have a polearm). Plus, a second rank of them could have longspears, which are simple weapons. They only need to hit AC 10 to grant the bonus.

And they probably look tastier than you and could also give a flanking bonus.

[CTrees]

They wouldn't accept that job. Commoners have families, you know. And that doesn't mean you can hire the whole family.

Commoners have families.
You have many pointy weapons.
Commoners have the deaths of their families to avenge.
You likely have ranks in bluff a/o diplomacy.
Commoners do not have Sense Motive as a class skill.
You have money to hire them and aid them on their quest to find their families' killer.

I see no problem.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Commoners have families.
You have many pointy weapons.
Commoners have the deaths of their families to avenge.
You likely have ranks in bluff a/o diplomacy.
Commoners do not have Sense Motive as a class skill.
You have money to hire them and aid them on their quest to find their families' killer.

I see no problem.

Your party is all good aligned. I see a problem.

Your party is not good aligned, but you have a paladin in the party. I see a problem.

You have a good-aligned guy in your party. I see a problem.

[Lans]

One of my current projects is KEVIN. Project KEVIN is an attempt to make a somewhat useful commoner character,aptly named Kevin.

Feats:
A commoner needs certain things out of feats, versatility or abilities that scale independent from specific class levels and/or grow more powerful the more you have. These feats are the closest things to class features that they're going to get and you don't get many. Choose wisely.

-The Pact binding line of feats from Tome of Magic: All three can be taken by 5th level (3rd if human) and can grant a commoner a rather flexible list of abilities that can assist a party. Any or all of the feats are solid, and all three are fantastic.

-Utterance feats from Tome of Magic: They're not all that hot, but if you take the feat that gives you truespeech as a class skill, you can get an at-will buff and debuff with a single feat. suffers from all the other problems of the Truenamer. a possibility, but not a good one.

-Heritage feats: These can be pretty good, but require a great deal of dedication, so you won't have much room for anything else. Fey heritage is rather nice, since it leads in to DR/ cold iron and several very useful SLAs (summon a rhino as a 9th level commoner? yes please)

-Aberrant blood feats/Abysal blood feats: Much like heritage feats, they require a great deal of commitment to get the most out of them but they can grant new movement modes, combat improvements, etc. I'm a firm fan of Aberrant blood's Starspawn feat, but otherwise about on par or a little less nice

- Domain feats: These are really nice, each one provides a 1/day ability that scales with HD. For a commoner, the ones that will really matter are things like Good, Evil, and Protection devotion, since you can use them to buff the entire party.

My vote would probably be a mix of Binding and Domain feats


You might also want to consider Wild Cohort and draconic aura feats.

[mabriss lethe]

You might also want to consider Wild Cohort and draconic aura feats.

As I said, it's nowhere near comprehensive. I didn't mention Psionics, Incarnum feats, or Tome of Battle material either...though I'm slowly incorporating it into the project. Thanks though.

[Bladesinger]

My friend and I had an idea for this. Two level-17 adventurers--one a warblade and the other a frenzied berserker--recruit commoners for an adventure, and promise high pay (say, ten gold for each taker). Let's say that the warblade has Leadership, and has a leadership score of around 20. That means that he can recruit up to 50 level-1 commoners. The group of 52 adventurers then proceeds to fight some high-level creature. The frenzied berserker, with his improved initiative feat and +3 Dex., goes first, and frenzies, inspiring a frenzy in all of the commoners within ten feet. Then the crusader uses War Master's Charge to make all of the commoners in 30 ft. charge the opponent. One epic battle later, the enemy (as well as most of the commoners) is dead, and the warblade and the frenzied berserker can pay the survivors and move on the the next town to do it again. If the warblade is concerned about his leadership score, then he can take some time to increase it. Otherwise, recruiting 30 commoners instead of 50 shouldn't make that much of a difference.

Granted, I know that this isn't the best way to go about this (and no sane DM would allow it, anyway), but I just thought that it would be kind of fun to pull off.

[Hiro Protagonest]

My friend and I had an idea for this. Two level-17 adventurers--one a warblade and the other a frenzied berserker--recruit commoners for an adventure, and promise high pay (say, ten gold for each taker). Let's say that the warblade has Leadership, and has a leadership score of around 20. That means that he can recruit up to 50 level-1 commoners. The group of 52 adventurers then proceeds to fight some high-level creature. The frenzied berserker, with his improved initiative feat and +3 Dex., goes first, and frenzies, inspiring a frenzy in all of the commoners within ten feet. Then the crusader uses War Master's Charge to make all of the commoners in 30 ft. charge the opponent. One epic battle later, the enemy (as well as most of the commoners) is dead, and the warblade and the frenzied berserker can pay the survivors and move on the the next town to do it again. If the warblade is concerned about his leadership score, then he can take some time to increase it. Otherwise, recruiting 30 commoners instead of 50 shouldn't make that much of a difference.

Granted, I know that this isn't the best way to go about this (and no sane DM would allow it, anyway), but I just thought that it would be kind of fun to pull off.

If you're paying 10 gp per guy, you might as well get 1st level warriors. The entire point of hiring commoners is that it's cheap.

[druid91]

Do things the imperial gaurd way.

If your recruitment isn't in the millions per day, and you still are only barely coming out even, your doing it wrong.

[sengmeng]

mathematically, if you have 400 commoners attack something, there's a decent chance one will get an instant kill on it.

[Bladesinger]

If you're paying 10 gp per guy, you might as well get 1st level warriors. The entire point of hiring commoners is that it's cheap.
Warriors are more likely to survive, though. The point of hiring commoners is that a lot of them won't make it, so you won't have to pay them, anyway. Besides, doing this with commoners has more humor value.

[Strife Warzeal]

mathematically, if you have 400 commoners attack something, there's a decent chance one will get an instant kill on it.

And commoner #289 swings his sword up at the beast, piercing it's armor in the one vulnerable spot on it's body causing it to collapse immediately.

Commoner #289 has managed what many high level adventurers have failed at.

[Marnath]

mathematically, if you have 400 commoners attack something, there's a decent chance one will get an instant kill on it.

How do you figure that?:smallconfused:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Warriors are more likely to survive, though. The point of hiring commoners is that a lot of them won't make it, so you won't have to pay them, anyway. Besides, doing this with commoners has more humor value.
Yeah, well, after doing this a few times, don't be surprised if the you're facing the brunt of a small army.

How do you figure that?:smallconfused:

Instant kill rules. If you roll a critical threat, and then roll a 20 for your critical confirmation roll, it's an instant kill.

[Thurbane]

Instant kill rules. If you roll a critical threat, and then roll a 20 for your critical confirmation roll, it's an instant kill.
It's worth noting that this is a totally optional rule listed in the DMG. :smallwink:

...but it may be worth equipping your horde of commoners with scythes, and hope for the occasional critical.

[Yukitsu]

A level 10 bard/level 5 warchanter and a level 15 white raven crusader walk into a bar filled with commoners...

[NNescio]

...

...

Why is this starting to resemble the rules for overbearing? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_the_Dinner_Table) Especially the beggar mobs part?

[CTrees]

And commoner #289 swings his sword up at the beast, piercing it's armor in the one vulnerable spot on it's body causing it to collapse immediately.

Commoner #289 has managed what many high level adventurers have failed at.


Gotta be very careful with this strategy, though, even with the optional instant kill rules... If your target is, say, a froghemoth? Rock on. If it's an adult red dragon? The dragon is going to go "hey, I have a higher initiative roll than most of these commoners, and cast as a sorceror. Fireball. Breath weapon on the survivors. Hey, look, no more commoners."