Kythons (Extra HD question)

[AslanCross]

So in the BOVD, the Kython traits entry says ""All kythons have extra Hit Dice as though they were Small creatures."
Not knowing the 3.0 rules on this, what does this mean? I want to adjust these creatures to fit 3.5 rules more neatly.

[Cog]

Presumably those HD are built into the stats, and they're just explaining some of the type-specific stuff that got simplified in the 3.5 update. Just keep their HD at what they are and you should be fine.

There have been a few threads on them here in the past. Apparently they're on the strong side for their CR, if you want to keep that in mind.

[KillianHawkeye]

Okay, I had no idea about this rule since I never DMed back in 3.0, but apparently (due to the differences between creating monsters versus creating characters) Extra Hit Dice was a statistic used for calculating the monster's Skill Points and extra Feats. The relevant info is on pages 11 and 13 of the 3E Monster Manual.



Basically, Small and Medium-size monsters considered their EHD to be any HD past their first, while larger creatures needed to surpass a higher limit before the Hit Dice were considered "extra" (2 for Large, 4 for Huge, etc.). Depending on the monster's creature type, they'd get Feats and extra Skill Points based on how many EHD they had.

For example, the Adult Kython is a 10 HD Aberration, so it has 9 Extra Hit Dice. According to the table on MM p.11, Aberrations have a base Skill Points equal to twice their Int score and gain +2 Skill Points per EHD. So what that notation in the BoVD means is that you should ignore the Kython's actual size and calculate the EHD as if they were Small creatures (meaning that the larger Kythons gain more Skills than other creatures of their size and Feats one level earlier because they have one more Extra Hit Die than other Large creatures do). Without that notation providing an exception to the rules of Extra Hit Dice, the 18 HD Kython Slaughterking would have only 16 EHD instead of 17.

Anyway, this is only really important if you are advancing the existing Kythons by adding Hit Dice.



Now, in 3.5 the rules were changed so that monsters gained Skills and Feats in exactly the same way as normal characters. This means that if you were to rebuild the standard Kythons using the 3.5 system, you'd have to throw out their Skills and Feats and recalculate their number of Feats and Skill Points according to the current system: one Feat at 1st HD, additional Feats every 3rd HD like any character, 2+Int mod Skill Points (x4 at 1st HD) for Aberrations.

[AslanCross]

Hmm, alright, then. It's also kind of weird that the Kython Broodling, for example, has two bonus feats and no regular feats (despite how it should have at least one, since creatures always get a feat for the first HD).

EDIT: Thanks, Killian Hawkeye. That makes this a lot easier. :smallbiggrin:

[KillianHawkeye]

Hmm, alright, then. It's also kind of weird that the Kython Broodling, for example, has two bonus feats and no regular feats (despite how it should have at least one, since creatures always get a feat for the first HD).

EDIT: Thanks, Killian Hawkeye. That makes this a lot easier. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not sure that was actually true for monsters in 3E. At least, I can't find anything that says a monster always gets a Feat at level 1, or any guidelines at all for creating monsters from scratch.

I mean, the 3E Aboleth has 8 HD and 3 feats, but I can't really figure out how. It's Huge, so it only has 4 EHD, which should only provide it with +1 Feat. So at what points did it get the other two? If it got one at 1st, is the other a bonus Feat? It's not marked, so we don't really know.

I really think they just gave monsters whatever feats they thought they should have, then slapped on some rules for monster advancement.

EDIT: Oh, and you're welcome. At the very least we now know what the term Extra Hit Dice means.

[Greenish]

At the very least we now know what the term Extra Hit Dice means.And knowing is half the battle.

The other half will be against kythons, though. :smalleek:

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't like the odds on that one.... :smallfrown: