What's a good assassin build

[Kaeso]

Hey there playground.

I think the assassin PrC from the DMG is a pretty cool prestige class. It gets some nice spells (especially if you include the Spell Compendium), sneak attack, poison use and a death attack (I know most of you consider it a trap but if the situation permits it, a save or die that doesn't waste any resources is never bad). I'm just wondering what would be a good class to use before and/or after entering it. I know the most basic entry is the rogue, but I'm not too fond of it: rogue's tend to be horrible at combat (which is about 60% of DnD) and the assassin class is supposed to be good at it (yes, I know that it should be good at assassinating but where's the fun in doing something by yourself all the time while the rest of the party sits on their hands, and being horrible in group combat? DnD is, first and foremost, a team game).

Does any of you have any good suggestions?

[Cog]

(I know most of you consider it a trap but if the situation permits it, a save or die that doesn't waste any resources is never bad).
The problem is that it does waste resources. Actions are a very important resource.

I suppose you could try to wiggle your way into the class with Swashbuckler and use Assassin's sneak attack to qualify for Daring Outlaw with a judicious reading. Assassin's casting only skips ASF in either light armor or no armor depending on your reading, though, so there aren't many frontline types who'd mesh well.

[Greenish]

Have a look at what the Iron Chefs did with the class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202&page=6).

[Tvtyrant]

Rogue 5/Assassin 10/Dragon Disciple 5 gets you 7 level 4 assassin spells a day and a +4 bonus to strength. It is an odd build but you get a lot more spells then a traditional assassin.

Also gets 8d6 sneak attack and better HD. Its not bad for core.

[JaronK]

When I want to play an assassin, I do Factotum X/Unarmed Swordsage 2, using Iajuitsu Focus and Gnomish Quickrazors, along with Imperious Command, Darkstalker, Master of Poisons, Sickening Strike, and Terrifying Strike. It works great.

JaronK

[Kaeso]

When I want to play an assassin, I do Factotum X/Unarmed Swordsage 2, using Iajuitsu Focus and Gnomish Quickrazors, along with Imperious Command, Darkstalker, Master of Poisons, Sickening Strike, and Terrifying Strike. It works great.

JaronK

Is Factotum really all that hot? To me it seems like a slightly better rogue with some more int focus, not really assassin material.

[Tvtyrant]

Is Factotum really all that hot? To me it seems like a slightly better rogue with some more int focus, not really assassin material.

You can use inspiration to fuel your Iajuitsu skill, which boosts your damage. It also gets pseudo-spells and the ability to mimic class features. It also makes all strength and dex checks off of int, including trip. I think of it as to Rogue as Swordsage is to Fighter or Totemist is to Druid.

[ffone]

Second rogue/swash with Daring Outlaw. Nice Int synergy.

[Longcat]

When I want to play an assassin, I do Factotum X/Unarmed Swordsage 2, using Iajuitsu Focus and Gnomish Quickrazors, along with Imperious Command, Darkstalker, Master of Poisons, Sickening Strike, and Terrifying Strike. It works great.

JaronK

Why Quickrazors, if I may ask? To me, they seem like ordinary daggers that you can't AoO with outside of your turn, and they even take up a feat. What's so special about them?

[Greenish]

Why Quickrazors, if I may ask?For Iaijutsu Focus. A common reading of the skill says that only the first attack after drawing counts as having been made immediately.

[Draz74]

Have a look at what the Iron Chefs did with the class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202&page=6).

I'm also quite fond of my Iron Chef entry for that round, which I didn't have time to write up and submit: Warblade 9 / Human Paragon 3 / Assassin 8. Two-kukri crit fisher fighting, with lots of focus on Intelligence.

Edgar, Shredder
Level 1: Warblade - Wild Cohort (optional, worked with character backstory), Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 2: Warblade
Level 3: Warblade - Martial Study
Level 4: Human Paragon
Level 5: Warblade
Level 6: Assassin - Craven
Level 7: Human Paragon - Knowledge Devotion
Level 8: Human Paragon
Level 9: Warblade - Quick Draw, Staggering Strike
Level 10: Assassin
Level 11: Assassin
Level 12: Warblade - Improved Critical (kukri)
Level 13: Warblade
Level 14: Assassin
Level 15: Assassin - Darkstalker
Level 16: Assassin
Level 17: Assassin
Level 18: Assassin - xxx (open to suggestions)
Level 19: Warblade
Level 20: Warblade - Improved Initiative

Maneuvers/Stances
Level 1 [R(3), IL 1]: Blood in the Water; Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Moment of Perfect Mind
Level 2 [R(3), IL 2]: Sapphire Nightmare Blade
Level 3 [R(3), IL 3]: Wall of Blades, Cloak of Deception
Level 5 [R(4), IL 4]: Hunter's Sense; (Wolf Fang Strike →) Mountain Hammer
Level 9 [R(4), IL 7]: Ruby Nightmare Blade
Level 12 [R(4), IL 9]: (Sapphire Nightmare Blade →) Dancing Mongoose
Level 13 [R(4), IL 10]: Pouncing Charge
Level 19 [R(4), IL 13]: (Mountain Hammer →) Swooping Dragon Strike
Level 20 [R(4), IL 14]: Iron Heart Surge

Spells
Level 6: Critical Strike, Ebon Eyes
Level 7: Shock and Awe
Level 8: Absorb Weapon, Spider Climb
Level 10: Silent Portal, Pass without Trace
Level 11: Fangs of the Vampire King, Wraithstrike
Level 14: Fell the Greatest Foe, Magic Circle against Good
Level 15: Dimension Door, Glibness
Level 16: Cursed Blade, Freedom of Movement
Level 18: Spectral Weapon


Why Quickrazors, if I may ask? To me, they seem like ordinary daggers that you can't AoO with outside of your turn, and they even take up a feat. What's so special about them?


For Iaijutsu Focus. A common reading of the skill says that only the first attack after drawing counts as having been made immediately.

Also, they don't take a feat if you are a (Whisper) Gnome and trade your Hooked Hammer Familiarity for Quickrazor familiarity, using then weapon familiarity variants in Complete Warrior.

[JaronK]

Is Factotum really all that hot? To me it seems like a slightly better rogue with some more int focus, not really assassin material.

Int to damage + poison that does con damage + minor creation for Black Lotus or Sinmaker's Surprise poison is one heck of a way to do the poison thing. With the feats I mentioned you can also give -4 to enemy saves against the poison, and with a weapon (generally Gnomish Quickrazor) of Assassination + Tooth of Leraje (if you can get one) that's an additional +5 to the DC. Not too shabby.

Imperious Command just lets you cower enemies so they can't fight back, and you can use Cunning Surge to cower them effectively as a free action before you hack them to bits. Remember, if cowering means they haven't acted yet, they're still flat footed. Attack in the surprise round, then cower them (and attack) in the first round, and then finish them off in the second... they still haven't moved. Never Outnumbered helps with this. With Gnomish Quickrazors for Iaijutsu Focus, you can really hack enemies to pieces. IF works on everything, unlike sneak attack (though obviously Imperious Command is worthless against fear immunes.

Factotum's Int to initiative checks lets you attack first, while their Int to Hide and Move Silently and Climb and Balance and such is great for the stealth part of an assassin concept. And don't forget you can use Craft Wonderous Items to make tools of the trade.

So yeah, it's great for this. A Swordsage dip definitely helps.

JaronK

[ILM]

I like Swashbuckler 3/ Swordsage 1/ Sneak Fighter 1 (Hit & Run variant if you can take both at the same time) (or Rogue if you need the skills). Take a second level in Swordsage around level 9 or 10 if you like.

Go Shadow Blade, Craven and stack ambush feats. I was exploring one way to do this here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195172) with charisma damage from Maiming strike, you might want to fish for ideas.

Mind you, Factotum and more ToB stuff might be good, I'm just not entirely up to speed on those yet.

[JaronK]

I'd prefer being Necropolitan and thus being immune to all kinds of attacks (disguising yourself to look living to avoid specific anti undead attacks), and then taking Lifesense so you can see all enemies long before they see you, instead of Craven.

JaronK

[Kaeso]

Int to damage + poison that does con damage + minor creation for Black Lotus or Sinmaker's Surprise poison is one heck of a way to do the poison thing. With the feats I mentioned you can also give -4 to enemy saves against the poison, and with a weapon (generally Gnomish Quickrazor) of Assassination + Tooth of Leraje (if you can get one) that's an additional +5 to the DC. Not too shabby.

Imperious Command just lets you cower enemies so they can't fight back, and you can use Cunning Surge to cower them effectively as a free action before you hack them to bits. Remember, if cowering means they haven't acted yet, they're still flat footed. Attack in the surprise round, then cower them (and attack) in the first round, and then finish them off in the second... they still haven't moved. Never Outnumbered helps with this. With Gnomish Quickrazors for Iaijutsu Focus, you can really hack enemies to pieces. IF works on everything, unlike sneak attack (though obviously Imperious Command is worthless against fear immunes.

Factotum's Int to initiative checks lets you attack first, while their Int to Hide and Move Silently and Climb and Balance and such is great for the stealth part of an assassin concept. And don't forget you can use Craft Wonderous Items to make tools of the trade.

So yeah, it's great for this. A Swordsage dip definitely helps.

JaronK

If you want to do all that every combat (for multiple rounds most likely) that costs, as scholars would call it, a metric crapton of inspiration points. That would require you to take font of inspiration in almost every feat slot. Is it really worth that?

[Cog]

A lot of that doesn't actually require spending IP. Int to initiative and physical skills comes free.

[TroubleBrewing]

+ minor creation for Black Lotus

I don't know how I never considered this option. I guess I thought that you couldn't make anything with a GP cost over a certain amount, and seeing as Black Lotus extract is about 2,500 GP/dose, I thought it might be too expensive for the spell.

It does seem to imply that you need a Craft: Poisonmaking check to make it, but who cares? You're a Factotum. Skills are what you do best.

[true_shinken]

Rogue 5/Assassin 10/Dragon Disciple 5 gets you 7 level 4 assassin spells a day and a +4 bonus to strength. It is an odd build but you get a lot more spells then a traditional assassin.

Also gets 8d6 sneak attack and better HD. Its not bad for core.

I like that build and I think it's really cool. Depending on starting level, I'd use Ranger instead of Rogue, though.

[Rosarius]

Halfling, 2 flaws

Rogue 1 Least dragonmark (mark of hospitality), master of poisons, poison expert (injury)
Rogue 2
Rogue 3 Venomous Strike
Rogue 4
Rogue 5
Black Dog 1 Poison Master (Injury)
Black Dog 2
Black Dog 3
Black Dog 4 Craven
Assassin 1
Assassin 2
Assassin 3 Sickening Strike
Assassin 4
Assassin 5
Assassin 6 Terryfing Strike
Assassin 7
Assassin 8
Assassin 9 Poison Specialization
Assassin 10
Swashbuckler 1 Weapon Finesse

So, we have the Black Lotus reducing his Con by 3d6+3 (average 14), which means -7 fortitude.

Poison DC : +2 (black dog) +2 (poison specialization) +1 (poison expert) +2 (venmous strike) +5 (assassination weapon) = +12

Death Attack : 10 +14 (black dog + assassin lvls) +5 (int) = +29

DV vs Death Attack : 29 + 7 (black lotus) + 4 (terryfing and sickening strike) = 39

I find this character to be original and different from those +xd6 sneak attack builds.

[Keld Denar]

I don't know how I never considered this option. I guess I thought that you couldn't make anything with a GP cost over a certain amount, and seeing as Black Lotus extract is about 2,500 GP/dose, I thought it might be too expensive for the spell.

It does seem to imply that you need a Craft: Poisonmaking check to make it, but who cares? You're a Factotum. Skills are what you do best.

Psionic Assassin + Hidden Talent(Minor Creation, Psionic)? All the organic material your heart desires!

[true_shinken]

Psionic Assassin + Hidden Talent(Minor Creation, Psionic)? All the organic material your heart desires!
Oh, that's just evil.

[Keld Denar]

Oh Secrets of Sarlona, if you only knew how awesome you truely are. Thank you for giving us such gems as the Psionic Assassin, Psionic Cantrips, the Tashalatora feat, and the FREAKING SPINNING SWORD!

GG

EDIT: For extra fun, take Monastic Training (Psionic Assassin), and Tashalatora, and now your Assassin levels progress your monkly UAS damage. Death Attack fools with your...moustache!

[Lateral]

Black Dog 1 Poison Master (Injury)


Black Lotus poison is a contact poison.

[TroubleBrewing]

DMG, page 296: "Contact: merely touching this type of poison necessitates a saving throw. It can be actively delivered via a weapon or a touch attack."

EDIT: ooooohhhhh I see what you're getting at.

[Rosarius]

Yeah, Poison Master (injury) works with Black Lotus... I think.