Preferred compromise between Spontaneous and Prepared Spellcasting?

[Coidzor]

So I was wondering whether people preferred the way that the Erudite melded a wizard-like level of potential powers known(and spells with Spell to Power) and available but with limitations on how many unique powers could be used in a day such that one's choices throughout the day further limited one's versatility but one also had to go out and get those powers or the Spirit Shaman's ability to pick a certain number of powers off of an automatically fully known list that are prepared and then spontaneously cast from the very beginning of the day? Are there any others beyond this pair?

Came up as part of a discussion over whether I'd really consider one or the other as the basis for a house-rule or just homebrew class.

At least, I think of them as at least partial compromises between preparation and spontaneity...

[Eldan]

I really like the Spirit Shaman's way and I think it should basically be how most casters work. It works around the Sorcerer's most severe limitation without going into full wizard/cleric territory.

[Feytalist]

Seconded.

At least, that's how i think "know their whole spell list" classes like beguiler or warmage should work.

[Cog]

At least, that's how i think "know their whole spell list" classes like beguiler or warmage should work.
The tier 3 and 4 casters should get nerfed while the 1s and 2s are fine? :smallannoyed:

[Eldan]

Sorcerers and wizards could be made into basically versions of the same class with Spirit Shaman casting. How about:

Intelligence: determines how long your daily spell list gets.
Charisma: determines how many slots you have and the DCs.

[Feytalist]

The tier 3 and 4 casters should get nerfed while the 1s and 2s are fine? :smallannoyed:

Heh, well, you could obviously extend it tier 1s and 2s too. My point was just that knowing all your spells all the time with such a high spells-per-day progression is a bit like having your cake and eating it as well.

I've never really understood that metaphor, to be honest.

[Eldan]

It's meant to say "Eat your cake and keep it intact". So, you want to eat your cake, but still have cake left for another day.

[Tvtyrant]

Heh, well, you could obviously extend it tier 1s and 2s too. My point was just that knowing all your spells all the time with such a high spells-per-day progression is a bit like having your cake and eating it as well.

I've never really understood that metaphor, to be honest.

Favorite quote about it: "of course I want to have my cake and eat it too, that is what cake is for!"

[Feytalist]

Or as zeropunctuation would have it, "have your cake and eviscerate it".

Actually I think your quote is from the same source :smallwink:

[Sdonourg]

Sha'ir is something like spontaneous/prepared.

[herceg]

or check out the magister class from Arcana Unearthed / Arcana Evolved.

[Kylarra]

Seconded.

At least, that's how i think "know their whole spell list" classes like beguiler or warmage should work.Personally, I prefer them to Wiz/Sorc casting. Know your whole spell list off a smaller pool is less bookwork than figure out which spells I want out of a pool that expanded with every splat.

[Greenish]

Heh, well, you could obviously extend it tier 1s and 2s too. My point was just that knowing all your spells all the time with such a high spells-per-day progression is a bit like having your cake and eating it as well.Well, given that their lists are very thematic and kept together (not to mention being tier 3-4 unlike most other full casters), I should think that they're fine as is.

I prefer spirit shaman or beguiler-like casting mechanics to sorcerer or wizard styles. Psionics are fun too, even if most non-psions have so few powers known that you can't take many fun-but-not-so-useful ones.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

It's easy to look at the Warmage list and say that his ability to cast any spell off of it is much more versatile than a Sorcerer, but it's worth remembering that the Warmage really only has one spell per level: energy damage I-IX. He doesn't even have other ways of hurting people.

I keep playing with, but never finishing, a system in which Wizards and Druids have Spirit Shaman style spell preparation, while Clerics have Warmage access to a smaller spell list based on their Domains.

[Coidzor]

Sorcerers and wizards could be made into basically versions of the same class with Spirit Shaman casting. How about:

Intelligence: determines how long your daily spell list gets.
Charisma: determines how many slots you have and the DCs.

Hmm, that's definitely a new idea to me that I'll have to consider implementing if I go this way. Thank you Eldan, it's provoking some very interesting thought on my part. :smallsmile:

[Eldan]

Oh, sure. If you go about making a new base class that way, I'd like to see it.

[Coidzor]

Oh, sure. If you go about making a new base class that way, I'd like to see it.

Well, I've gotta reboot that homebrewing I was doing for the world I was making anyway, so I'll probably bundle it in with that since I'm thinking about it specifically for it. ...Now just to find a thread I made years ago and ask permission to reopen it or something...


Sha'ir is something like spontaneous/prepared.

That's the one from Dragon Compendium that has to send out a little baby djinn to get spells for him, right? So basically keeps spells for a certain amount of time but has to have downtime between fights in order to grab new spells but can also grab utility spells basically at leisure as long as there's no extremely pressing and urgent need to fly at this exact time rather than say 5 minutes from now?

[Eldan]

Well, if you have any ideas on class features, I'll brew it myself. It needs a bit more than just casting, certainly.

[Coidzor]

Well, if you have any ideas on class features, I'll brew it myself. It needs a bit more than just casting, certainly.

You definitely have a point there... Unfortunately, I haven't really gotten that far along in my thought processes yet though, since I've mostly been considering it as a way of modifying the way most/all casters work as a way to consolidate some things and eliminate some of the funkiness of my group's houserules when they DM.

This thread was mostly made to fin out the pulse of the community on the issue.

Haven't really thought of them as having an especial theme yet... the only real thing that's a potential source of themes as such are the elemental, para-elemental, and quasi-elemental planes, magical botany/alchemy, and general wonkiness/tampering with the planes themselves.

So I'll definitely have to think further on this.

[Eldan]

Right. I'll go back to working on my own magic system, then.

[Veyr]

I really like the Spirit Shaman's way and I think it should basically be how most casters work. It works around the Sorcerer's most severe limitation without going into full wizard/cleric territory.
How is it not "going into full wizard/cleric territory"? The Spirit Shaman system is strictly superior to the normal prepared casting system, I would think.

[Eldan]

It probably is. But what I meant was "class with casting as it's only feature", as the sorcerer, cleric and wizard basically do in core. There's almost no reason not to take a PrC as soon as possible with them.

The casting could probably be balanced by making them choose a more limited list. Say, one or two schools (yes, schools are not balanced against each other, I know).

[Coidzor]

Oh, and while we're on the subject, has anyone seen homebrew that's played around with this idea before at all? Or just been directly modeled after the spirit shaman or erudite?