What happens if you give a monk Superior Unarmed Strike?

[byaku rai]

Title says it all. :smalleek: Does it get extra damage? Does the feat go to waste? Does the universe implode? I'm curious.

For the record, I'm playing the monk modification here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150122)

[Leon]

As the feat description says its treated as 4 levels higher than normal for its Damage dice

Example - a Level 6 "Revised" Monk will do 2d6 instead of 1d8 damage with unarmed strikes

[Quietus]

As the feat description says its treated as 4 levels higher than normal for its Damage dice

Example - a Level 6 "Revised" Monk will do 2d6 instead of 1d8 damage with unarmed strikes

1d10, actually. You may be thinking Improved Natural Attack, which would take you to 2d6 from 1d8. You'd need to be an 8th level Monk before Superior Unarmed Strike's +4 monk levels would give you 2d6, and INA remains similarly stronger at all levels, comparing a Medium base Monk. Plus, you can use a Monk's Belt to increase your damage further, as Monk's Belt and Superior Unarmed Strike generally don't stack - though some DMs would allow them to do so.

[Cog]

1d10, actually.
You might want to look at the link.

[Quietus]

You might want to look at the link.

Even with that, INA will give the exact same boost at any given level, while still stacking with a Monk's belt. It weakens my point, true, but it's still superior to Superior Unarmed Strike, given availability to a Monk's Belt.

[Cog]

Sure, but taking both is better, and you can add the belt on top of that too. With a bigger base die, INA gives you better returns, so SUS makes INA even better.

I was just recorrecting the correction, though, which is why I didn't comment on the rest. :smallsmile:

[true_shinken]

It happens exactly what is written in the feat...

[The Cat Goddess]

Getting to the end of the matter...

For a Monk above level 16, technically, it's true that according to the rules, the Feat becomes wasted (same with a Monk's Belt)... Because a Monk's unarmed damage does not progress after level 20.

Many GM's will say: "you really played a single-class Monk to level 20?!? Yeah, your unarmed damage is increased... whatever."

[Curmudgeon]

For a Monk above level 16, technically, it's true that according to the rules, the Feat becomes wasted (same with a Monk's Belt)... Because a Monk's unarmed damage does not progress after level 20.
That's true only when the Monk is level 20 or higher. At levels 17-19 SUS still advances their unarmed damage to the maximum, level 20 value.

It's only non-Monks who stop advancing their damage when they get to level 16+ with Superior Unarmed Strike.

[TOZ]

The universe implodes.:smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Huh. I just checked the epic rules and yeah, they did that. For whatever reason. *facepalm*

[The Cat Goddess]

Huh. I just checked the epic rules and yeah, they did that. For whatever reason. *facepalm*

For the same reason that there's an Epic Fighter Bonus Feat that gives... +1 BAB.

"Melee cannot have nice things".

[Curmudgeon]

For the same reason that there's an Epic Fighter Bonus Feat that gives... +1 BAB.
Actually, that's not right. Epic Prowess gives a +1 bonus on all attacks, but no improvement in BAB. If it did improve BAB, an Epic character who didn't get to +16 BAB by level 20 would be able to earn their 4th iterative attack. But they can't.

[The Cat Goddess]

Actually, that's not right. Epic Prowess gives a +1 bonus on all attacks, but no improvement in BAB. If it did improve BAB, an Epic character who didn't get to +16 BAB by level 20 would be able to earn their 4th iterative attack. But they can't.

Oh... worse than I thought.

Melee can't even have kinda-good things.

[Rei_Jin]

D&D isn't really designed to go past level 20 anymore... not since 3rd edition. 3.5 gave it token support, but it seems pretty darn clear to me that if things are "unbalanced" past level 12, that any semblance of balance is thrown out the window and stomped on by a passing tarrasque when you get to level 21+

I have heard DMs say that D&D gets balanced if you go to level 40+ (ie, everyone is a demi-god) but I don't see how playing at that level can be fun for anyone.

Back on topic though... Monk at level 21+ is pointless. If you're going to play a monk character to that point, better off going no more than 16 levels in monk, then 4 in a full BAB class (Warblade maybe?) and picking up a Prestige Class at epic, or whatever. You can't compete with a full caster, so do something fun.

Superior Unarmed Strike is a bad option for a feat, as it is superceded by an item. As far as is possible, never take a feat when an item can replicate its effects... items are easy to get, feats are not.