To kill the tarrasque.

[Doomboy911]

I know you players out there are beasts. You can make make builds to arm wrestle Bane with and spells to break Lolth's legs but there has always been a need to due something truly epic to wipe out a tarrasque and even than it's only temporary. I have to wonder what ways have you found to kill it while keeping it within the mortal realm and not using epic spells. For now the lowest level spell I can find that would keep the tarrasque in a state of death is wall of force. (The idea being one climbs into the throat of the bugger and block it's airway with the wall of force) So what have you come up with?

[Eldan]

Well, common ways to immobilize it are easy:

An Allip or other incorporeal undead with ability drain: it has no defence against that and can't hurt them. Mental abilities work best, as they are low.

A dedicated charge build can one-shot it.

It has abysmal balance, so grease can stop it easily.

A flying archer is also safe from it.

Reverse Gravity stops it too.


Now, actually killing or permanently immobilizing it is harder. Several walls of force (maybe from a time stop) in a cube around it work. Shrinking it, then applying forcecage works. It can be drowned.

[Ravens_cry]

The Upper Aerial Bombardment Corps. Seriously, it's not hard. Get some wizards with shrink item and flight with a bag of holding full of shrunk items, fly above the beasty, and drop, dispelling the shrink item. When it reaches negative hit points, get out those scrolls of Wish. Pretty expensive, but without any danger to those involved. If you need it to hold still, send in someone with a bunch of Immovable Rods and have them plant the Rods, then cut themselves out. The creature can only move 5 feet per round, IF it takes a full round action, now until its stomach destroys the rods, which might be never if the rods made of the right material.

[Infernalbargain]

Bag of holding / portable hole cannon works too.

[Keld Denar]

I think I can build an ECL20 character that can solo-grapple it. Does that count?

[The Cat Goddess]

A squadron of flying Force Missle Mages could theoretically do the job. :smallsigh:

[Cog]

Only if you use Fling Enemy, Hulking Hurler, and VOP so that you can use the Tarasque as a thrown weapon and overcome DR/magic while doing so.

[Eldan]

I think I can build an ECL20 character that can solo-grapple it. Does that count?

Make it a warforged and give it some way to heal itself enough so the Tarrasque can't kill it with natural attacks, and it can just hold the Tarrasque down forever.

[Keld Denar]

If you swing the Tarrasque at someone, would it overcome DR X/Epic?

EDIT: Naw, I think I'm gonna have to go Half-Ogre base. Need to get up to Gargantuan size in order to legally grapple with something that is actually Colossal.

[Darrin]

For now the lowest level spell I can find that would keep the tarrasque in a state of death is wall of force. (The idea being one climbs into the throat of the bugger and block it's airway with the wall of force) So what have you come up with?

If you want to suffocate Mr. T, about 20 vials of aboleth mucus (20 GP, Savage Species p. 46) should do it. Or rather, odds are about 1 in 20 he'll roll a 1 on his Fort save. Make it 40 vials to be sure, about 800 GP, plus fly and/or invisibility, unseen servant, etc. I'm not entirely sure how suffocation would work against the Tarrasque's Regeneration (Ex) ability... although I suppose it could be considered an "effect that would kill it instantly".

There's also Blister Oil Bomb + Lasso + Sovereign Glue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9742205&postcount=2). That only costs about 3571 GP.

[Cog]

If you swing the Tarrasque at someone, would it overcome DR X/Epic?
Only if you use the Tarrasque's own natural weapons. Hmm...

If your opponent is holding a light weapon, you can use it to attack him.
Alas, holding isn't quite the same as wielding, or you could tell the Big T to stop biting himself.

[true_shinken]

Naw, I think I'm gonna have to go Half-Ogre base. Need to get up to Gargantuan size in order to legally grapple with something that is actually Colossal.
Ultimo Tarrasco Junior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9465081&postcount=102)?

[Eldan]

Items of continuous giant size are actually affordable at high levels.

[Ravens_cry]

I think I can build an ECL20 character that can solo-grapple it. Does that count?
"Struth, it's a wee bit stroppy!":smallbiggrin:

[Keld Denar]

Ultimo Tarrasco Junior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9465081&postcount=102)?
Eh, I was thinking of something with some Soul (Manifester).


Items of continuous giant size are actually affordable at high levels.

Bah, thats a cop-out. Anyone can do anything with custom magic items. Heck, a use activated item of Wish at will is only what, 1/3 of the WBL of an ECL20 character?

[Eldan]

Yeah, but you could be D&D Paul Bunyan, with your pet tarrasque.

[Keld Denar]

Hmmmm...

Half-Ogre2/Monk2/PsyWar4/Totemist2/SoulManifester10

Feats
1st Aberrant Blood (Flexible Limbs)
Monk1 Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk1 Improved Grapple
Monk2 Monastic Training (Soul Manifester)
3rd Tashalatora
PsyWar1 Practiced Manifester (PsyWar)
PsyWar2 Azure Talent
6th Overchannel
9th Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (Kraken Mantle)
12th Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (Girallon Arms)
15th Inhuman Reach
18th Deepspawn

Strength = 46 (+18) (18 base + 6 racial + 4 levels + 4 Tome + 6 Belt +4 size +4 Tentacle)
Size = +12 Gargantuan
BAB = +11 with fractional BAB
Soulmelds = +20 (14 from Girallon Arms and 6 from Kraken Mantle)
6 essentia in Totem due to 4 + 1 class + 1 feat
6 essentia in Shoulders due to 4 + 1 feat + 1 item
Powers: +14 (21 point Grip of Iron)
Feats: +8 (+2 Aberrant Limbs, +2 Deepspawn, +4 Imp Grapple)
Items: +6 (+2 Armbands of Might, +4 Grappling Tentacle)
Total: +89 compared the the Tarrasque’s grapple mod of +81

Since I have monk levels, I guess I could put crossclass ranks in UMD get a partially charged Wand of Divine Power. That would give you +7 more. That feels so cheap though...

[Sacrieur]

Hulking Hurler + Stone Giant + Enlarge...

I didn't like how the moon was sitting up in the sky all smug like. Stupid moon.

---

Or alternatively, Weapon Proficiency (Tarrasque).

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Aren't you automatically considered willing while you're unconscious? Knock it down, then greater teleport it to the deepest point of the ocean floor. Drowning will make it pass out and every minute it stays down there, it'll take another couple hundred d6 pressure damage.

Or put it on a lifeless planet or even the surface of the Crystal Sphere. It won't be taking continuous mega-damage, but it would also be a lot harder for someone to find and bring back.

[faceroll]

Fly around with a Psion (Telepath) manifesting Psionic Dominate. Now you have a pet Tarrasque.

[fryplink]

A few walls of stone/force/other and create water from an at will item. Create a tarrasque cereal bowl with little meaty chunks. Eventually it will drown, and since the drowning rules kill and don't do damage you don't even need to wish it away. Essentially trapping the creature in a pit can do the job too, then filling it with water.

[Greenish]

Only if you use Fling Enemy, Hulking Hurler, and VOP so that you can use the Tarasque as a thrown weapon and overcome DR/magic while doing so.Would the Tarrasque work as an improvised weapon? You have a chance of breaking those, I recall.

EDIT: Naw, I think I'm gonna have to go Half-Ogre base. Need to get up to Gargantuan size in order to legally grapple with something that is actually Colossal.By my reading, Powerful Build would work too. You count as one size larger whenever you're subject to opposed check where size matters. But it doesn't say you're counted as larger only for the check bonus, so you'd be one size larger for determining whom you can grapple.

[Cog]

Would the Tarrasque work as an improvised weapon? You have a chance of breaking those, I recall.
Well, Fling Enemy lets you throw him, and it'd be hard to call the T a manufactured weapon...

Hm. What does it mean if the T breaks when you roll a 1 on your attack?

[Quietus]

Aren't you automatically considered willing while you're unconscious? Knock it down, then greater teleport it to the deepest point of the ocean floor. Drowning will make it pass out and every minute it stays down there, it'll take another couple hundred d6 pressure damage.

Or put it on a lifeless planet or even the surface of the Crystal Sphere. It won't be taking continuous mega-damage, but it would also be a lot harder for someone to find and bring back.

What makes you think there's such a thing as "pressure damage"? I've yet to see any source for that. And at any rate, even drowning can't kill the tarrasque, since "killing" it only renders it at -10 HP. So it'd be locked down there, sure, until someone who wants to cause some mayhem hits it with a water breathing spell.

[Eldariel]

If you swing the Tarrasque at someone, would it overcome DR X/Epic?

EDIT: Naw, I think I'm gonna have to go Half-Ogre base. Need to get up to Gargantuan size in order to legally grapple with something that is actually Colossal.

You could just be a Cleric and Giant Size yourself :smallwink:

[Hazzardevil]

My only iea is too throw it at the sun. It will continuosly die and I do not think it can be retrieved at all.

[Cog]

You could just be a Cleric and Giant Size yourself :smallwink:
Soul Manifester, for Expansion, Grip of Iron, Girallon Arms, and Kraken Mantle, really isn't a bad choice here.

[Volthawk]

What makes you think there's such a thing as "pressure damage"? I've yet to see any source for that. And at any rate, even drowning can't kill the tarrasque, since "killing" it only renders it at -10 HP. So it'd be locked down there, sure, until someone who wants to cause some mayhem hits it with a water breathing spell.

Stormwrack has rules for water pressure. 1d6 damage per minute for every 100ft underwater you are, with a Fort save (DC 15, increasing by 1 for every previous save) to take no damage. So it would take time, but it would knock it out sooner or later.

[Darrin]

What makes you think there's such a thing as "pressure damage"?


Supplemental rules in Stormwrack. If you don't have that sourcebook, though, then there aren't any rules for pressure damage.

Edit: apparently there is pressure damage in Core, DMG p. 304.



And at any rate, even drowning can't kill the tarrasque, since "killing" it only renders it at -10 HP.

The Tarrasque has no special immunity against suffocation. Per the suffocation rules, after the Tarrasque (eventually) fails a Fort save, it's rendered unconcious on round 1, dying (-1 HP) on round 2, and "suffocates" on round 3. This term isn't explicitly defined in the rules, but you're going to want to brush up on your book-ducking skills if you try to argue it's any different from being "dead".

The Tarrasque's Regeneration (Ex) ability doesn't specifically address suffocation, but the intent is fairly clear that any effect that instantly kills a Tarrasque instead inflicts an amount of nonlethal damage equal to its full normal HPs + 10 (868 HP), and if a wish/miracle isn't administered at that point, its regeneration kicks in and starts reducing the nonlethal damage by 40 points per round.

You can attempt to split some RAW hairs over whether suffocation is an "attack" or if waiting three rounds to suffocate doesn't count as "killing it instantly", but really, at that point your just plugging for votes to be inducted into the Greatest Depravities in the Historic Annals of Pedantry Hall of Fame.


Stormwrack has rules for water pressure. 1d6 damage per minute for every 100ft underwater you are, with a Fort save (DC 15, increasing by 1 for every previous save) to take no damage. So it would take time, but it would knock it out sooner or later.

It would have to be at least 1200 feet deep before the pressure damage would overcome its regeneration (12 x 3.5 = 42 nonlethal damage). The Tarrasque could survive possibly up to an hour (58 minutes) until the Fort save gets too high to succeed.

It will most likely suffocate first: 70 rounds of holding its breath (assuming it only uses move/free actions, otherwise 35 rounds), then it can last up to another 48 rounds before it can no longer make the Fort save. So about 12 minutes before it suffocates. Technically, if you aren't somewhat expeditious with the wish/miracle finishing touch, due to Regeneration 40 it will probably bounce back and forth between 868 nonlethal damage ("Mostly Dead") and 828 nonlethal damage ("Awake and *Really Pissed*"), depending on how you decide it's regeneration works with the suffocation rules.

Edit: It's not clear if suffocation damage is a one-time-only effect or if the Tarrasque would continue to take 868 nonlethal damage every round. Probably the latter.

[Eldariel]

Soul Manifester, for Expansion, Grip of Iron, Girallon Arms, and Kraken Mantle, really isn't a bad choice here.

Yeah, but getting Colossal off Warforged is harder without Cleric. MechaClericzilla!

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah, but getting Colossal off Warforged is harder without Cleric. MechaClericzilla!

You could also persist Iron Body to get the robot effect; then you can pick a truly crazy base creature! (Anthropormorphic Giant Squid MechaClericzilla!)

[Strife Warzeal]

You could also persist Iron Body to get the robot effect; then you can pick a truly crazy base creature! (Anthropomorphic Giant Squid MechaClericzilla!)

Am I the only one that thought MECHA'THULU from anthropomorphic giant squid. He's going to kill us all.

[No brains]

It would have to be at least 1200 feet deep before the pressure damage would overcome its regeneration (12 x 3.5 = 42 nonlethal damage). The Tarrasque could survive possibly up to an hour (58 minutes) until the Fort save gets too high to succeed.

It will most likely suffocate first: 70 rounds of holding its breath (assuming it only uses move/free actions, otherwise 35 rounds), then it can last up to another 48 rounds before it can no longer make the Fort save. So about 12 minutes before it suffocates. Technically, if you aren't somewhat expeditious with the wish/miracle finishing touch, due to Regeneration 40 it will probably bounce back and forth between 868 nonlethal damage ("Mostly Dead") and 828 nonlethal damage ("Awake and *Really Pissed*"), depending on how you decide it's regeneration works with the suffocation rules.

Taking the special Rush and a pretty nice swim check into account, couldn't Mr. T swim up from 1200ft before it risks drowning? :smallconfused:If it saved its Rush, it could swim 75ft in round one and then 10ft per round for nine rounds before getting its Rush back. 165ft per minute gets it back up in around 7 minutes, which is juuuuust about long enough for it to start needing to make checks, the first 8 of which it has no way in heck of failing. An especially capricious DM could also let Mr. T jump of the bottom of the ocean, giving it a 240ft head start back up. And let's not forget the most terrifying question of all... do Tarrasques float?:smalleek:

[faceroll]

do Tarrasques float?:smalleek:

This one does (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5789941/images/1252519582445.png)


Also found some tarrasque rule 34.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

What makes you think there's such a thing as "pressure damage"? I've yet to see any source for that.

It's on page 304 of the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide.

The deepest point of the ocean on Earth is 35,768 feet, or 357d6 per minute.


And at any rate, even drowning can't kill the tarrasque, since "killing" it only renders it at -10 HP.

It doesn't set its nonlethal damage at 868 hit points, it deals 868 nonlethal damage. In addition to pressure damage. So yeah, someone could come along and drag it out of the water, but it's going to be a long time before it wakes back up.


My only iea is too throw it at the sun. It will continuosly die and I do not think it can be retrieved at all.

It's immune to fire and disease, so the only effect that throwing it into the Sun would have is making it suffocate and rendering it extremely difficult to retrieve.


Technically, if you aren't somewhat expeditious with the wish/miracle finishing touch, due to Regeneration 40 it will probably bounce back and forth between 868 nonlethal damage ("Mostly Dead") and 828 nonlethal damage ("Awake and *Really Pissed*"), depending on how you decide it's regeneration works with the suffocation rules.

There's no rule limiting nonlethal damage to your hit point total. Even if you rule that suffocation only deals damage once, if you've got another source of continuous damage you can ensure that the tarrasque will stay unconscious for a very long time even if it is rescued.

[Metahuman1]

Why kill it at all? Beef the **** out of your Enchantment Spell Saving throws, and learn Fly, Silent spell, cost reduce Silent Spell and Extend Spell down too no increased spell level, and then use invisibility and Silence too sit right with it and cast programmed Amnesia repeatedly till it fails a will save. Then, dismiss Silence, land, Dismiss fly, Dismiss Invisibility, and reviled that Mount T is simply your pawn to do with as you like.

When the spells gonna expire, Cast it again right after you order it not too resist the next piece of magic your going to use on it, thus making it effectively permanent.

[Darrin]

It's on page 304 of the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide.
[...]
It doesn't set its nonlethal damage at 868 hit points, it deals 868 nonlethal damage. In addition to pressure damage. So yeah, someone could come along and drag it out of the water, but it's going to be a long time before it wakes back up.
[...]
There's no rule limiting nonlethal damage to your hit point total. Even if you rule that suffocation only deals damage once, if you've got another source of continuous damage you can ensure that the tarrasque will stay unconscious for a very long time even if it is rescued.

Good catch. Thanks!


Taking the special Rush and a pretty nice swim check into account, couldn't Mr. T swim up from 1200ft before it risks drowning? :smallconfused:If it saved its Rush, it could swim 75ft in round one and then 10ft per round for nine rounds before getting its Rush back. 165ft per minute gets it back up in around 7 minutes, which is juuuuust about long enough for it to start needing to make checks, the first 8 of which it has no way in heck of failing.


This assumes that whoever put Mr. T at 200 fathoms couldn't have put him any deeper... I would assume if you're going through all the fuss and bother to submerge him, you'd go a lot deeper. The 35,768 feet sounds like a pretty good place to start.

It also assumes Mr. T is smart enough to realize where he is and figure out that he has to swim straight up to get back to the surface. However, given how often people have suggested "drowning" as a method to get rid of him, it's somewhat likely that Mr. T has been submerged before, probably survived (he's not dead at the moment, yes?), and may even remember that swimming straight up gets him back to the surface.

Odd... didn't notice that before. There are apparently two "hold your breath" rules: In the DMG under Suffocation, its 2 rounds per point of Constitution. But under the Swim rules in the PHB, it's 1 round per point of Constitution if all you do is move/free actions, and reduced by an additional round if you take any standard/full actions.

There's one more problem with being that deep: no light, which means Mr. T is effectively blind, so movement is halved... actually 3/4ths, because he has the Blind-Fight feat. Make sure it's night, and even if he gets close to the surface he'll still be swimming blind. So... assuming he can swim 100' per minute (9 x 5' + 55') while blind and can hold his breath for 70 rounds, the best he can do is about... 1140 feet (118 rounds). But if we're using the swimming rules, he can only hold his breath for 35 rounds, which is about... 815 feet (83 rounds).



An especially capricious DM could also let Mr. T jump of the bottom of the ocean, giving it a 240ft head start back up.


Even assuming you get your full jump height underwater and you get 2 rounds of holding your breath per Con, 1140' + 240' = 1380'. Per the swimming rules, 815' + 240' = 1055'.

How are we getting a 240' jump, though? That's a DC 960 Jump check. With Rush (Ex) active and a running start, I'm getting a +65 Jump check, so about a 16' to 20' high jump. He's better off using his Rush to swim (55').



And let's not forget the most terrifying question of all... do Tarrasques float?:smalleek:

We're given 70' long, 50' high, and 130 tons for a Tarrasque, but this doesn't give us any reasonable way to calculate its density. A colossal creature is generally represented on the battlefield by a 30' cube. A 30' cube of water weighs about 840 tons. So, assuming a Tarrasque only filled up about half that cube... 130 tons displacing 400ish tons of water = yeah, it might actually float.

[Hazzardevil]

It's immune to fire and disease, so the only effect that throwing it into the Sun would have is making it suffocate and rendering it extremely difficult to retrieve.

I'm not definetly sure on the exact definetion for immunity but I think .r big T would catch fire thus melting anything that tried to bring him back and it would eventually die of dehydration and starvation.

Huzzah! I have permanantly killed Mr Big T!

[Arbitrarious]

I'm not definetly sure on the exact definetion for immunity but I think .r big T would catch fire thus melting anything that tried to bring him back and it would eventually die of dehydration and starvation.

Huzzah! I have permanantly killed Mr Big T!

I don't think it can starve to death actually. Or that it wouldn't simply begin eating the sun or something.

[Necroticplague]

I don't think it can starve to death actually. Or that it wouldn't simply begin eating the sun or something.

Yes,it can. Regeneration specifies that it doesn't effect damage due to starvation, dehydration, or suffocation. It would probably need the cast iron-stomach or scavenging gullet to count the sun as food.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Yes,it can. Regeneration specifies that it doesn't effect damage due to starvation, dehydration, or suffocation. It would probably need the cast iron-stomach or scavenging gullet to count the sun as food.

Yeah, but starving to death only deals 868 nonlethal damage to it. Anything that would kill the Tarrasque without dealing damage instead deals 868 damage. So that's 868 for suffocation, 868 for dehydration, and 868 from starvation, which may or may not repeat depending on whether or not a creature can suffocate/dehydrate/starve more than once. There's no rules that I'm aware of that specify anything other than fire damage from sitting at the center of the sun, so the Tarrasque's fire immunity prevents it from taking any further damage.

The reason I mentioned disease is that radiation sickness is treated as a disease under the d20 Modern rules. Assuming radiation exists in D&D at all, it would appear that the Tarrasque is immune to it. The rules for sunburn don't specify that it's fire damage, but it seems to be the only logical assumption.

Anything that tried to retrieve the Tarrasque from the sun would have to be immune to fire as well. This is relatively trivial at the levels where trying to retrieve the Tarrasque seems like a good idea.

[Cog]

There's no rules that I'm aware of that specify anything other than fire damage from sitting at the center of the sun, so the Tarrasque's fire immunity prevents it from taking any further damage.
The center of a star is at a far higher pressure than any oceanic trench on Earth.

Edit: ballparking off the DMG guide for water pressure, that's 2.3*10^8 d6 of damage per minute.

[Necroticplague]

Yeah, but starving to death only deals 868 nonlethal damage to it. Anything that would kill the Tarrasque without dealing damage instead deals 868 damage.


That's listed under it's regeneration, which, per the srd


Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.Regeneration also dos not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.

So,even if it's regeneration made it so it couldn't DIE of starvation, thirst, or suffocation (which I can see logic for, specific trumps general), it would be permanently stuck at -god knows how much nonlethal damage, thus rendering it permanently unconcious (it's regeneration can't heal that damage). In addition:

not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage.

Also,smoke effect rules probably come into play, as does starvation's portion about being fatigued. So it would be permanently unconcious, coughing and choking, fatigued, and unhealable. Even if you gave him enough food and water (which, extrapolating from the rules, would be at least 16 gallons and about 16 pounds of food per day, though more realisticaly, 200 gallons and 1600 pounds seems more accurate), you would still have to take forever to heal him up using magic (since the damage still originated from starvation and thirst, so his regeneration can't heal him).

[HalfDragonCube]

If you swing the Tarrasque at someone, would it overcome DR X/Epic?

You just gave the the awesome mental image of someone swinging the Tarrasque around their head by the tail.

Just like the Bowser fights in Super Mario 64.

[Eldan]

How heavy is a tarrasque?

[Cog]

"The tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, and it weighs about 130 tons. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm)"

[Eldan]

Right. And in all this time, I never noticed monster descriptions actually said that.

[Keld Denar]

How much strength would you need to get 260,000 lbs as a medium load to Overburden Heave the Tarrasque into the sun with Distance Shot [Epic]? Technically, you have LoS to the sun, even if you technically can't make spot checks to see it.

I'd imaging you'd probably want to stack templates to get a size large or huge quadrapede with a Belt of the Wide Earth...

[HalfDragonCube]

How much strength would you need to get 260,000 lbs as a medium load to Overburden Heave the Tarrasque into the sun with Distance Shot [Epic]? Technically, you have LoS to the sun, even if you technically can't make spot checks to see it.

I'd imaging you'd probably want to stack templates to get a size large or huge quadrapede with a Belt of the Wide Earth...

Minimum Str of 74. The carrying capacity table does actually cover that. The requisite score does decrease dramatically as you increase in size, however.

Still, why hurl it into the sun if there are bombs handily left out for you at the sides of the arena?

[Keld Denar]

Why...not...hurl it into the sun? I mean...for dramatic effect? FATALITY!

[No brains]

There's one more problem with being that deep: no light,
It has Darkvision. All Magical Beasts do.


How are we getting a 240' jump, though? That's a DC 960 Jump check. With Rush (Ex) active and a running start, I'm getting a +65 Jump check, so about a 16' to 20' high jump. He's better off using his Rush to swim (55').

The way I calculated it was that a colossal creature already has a 128ft vertical reach and it seemed like a vertical jump's DC was the heightx4. Past that, I think I forgot that it only got a bonus of 12x4 for rush speed rather than 120x4. Big oops.


We're given 70' long, 50' high, and 130 tons for a Tarrasque, but this doesn't give us any reasonable way to calculate its density. A colossal creature is generally represented on the battlefield by a 30' cube. A 30' cube of water weighs about 840 tons. So, assuming a Tarrasque only filled up about half that cube... 130 tons displacing 400ish tons of water = yeah, it might actually float.

I'd like to see how we can calculate the volume of the Tarrasque. It seems to me that if its volume is any more than the volume of water that weighs 130 tons, it can float. Then again, people go to school for building ships and the method might actually be much more complex...

[Volthawk]

Why...not...hurl it into the sun? I mean...for dramatic effect? FATALITY!

But that would expose it to cosmic radiation (which, as we all know, gives you superpowers)! Then you have a mutant solar-powered tarrasque! Sure, for now it's fine, just hanging out in space, but if it ever gets back somehow (say, if someone's pissed at the world and has teleport and some way of breathing in space, or if the mutant powers lets it fly), then you have unleashed an even worse terror on the world!

[Eldan]

But that would expose it to cosmic radiation (which, as we all know, gives you superpowers)! Then you have a mutant solar-powered tarrasque! Sure, for now it's fine, just hanging out in space, but if it ever gets back somehow (say, if someone's pissed at the world and has teleport and some way of breathing in space, or if the mutant powers lets it fly), then you have unleashed an even worse terror on the world!

And yet, I'm fine with that.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

The center of a star is at a far higher pressure than any oceanic trench on Earth.

I would assume so, yes, but stars in D&D aren't at all like stars in real life. They're much smaller and much colder; the Spelljammer rules say that fire bodies have a breathable atmosphere and that the maximum fire damage caused by proximity to a star is 30d6/round, with no mention of any other form of damage.

So I was actually wrong about throwing it into the Sun suffocating it. It would suffocate normally, once its air envelope became stale, but would reawaken within moments of landing.


So,even if it's regeneration made it so it couldn't DIE of starvation, thirst, or suffocation (which I can see logic for, specific trumps general), it would be permanently stuck at -god knows how much nonlethal damage, thus rendering it permanently unconcious (it's regeneration can't heal that damage).

It is also specifically immune to any condition or effect that causes incurable wounds. It takes 868 points of damage every time it starves, but starvation doesn't stop it from regenerating, and doesn't deal damage fast enough to overcome its regeneration.

[Cog]

Spelljammer rules...
...Apply to Spelljammer. It's a campaign setting, and is no more true in the general rules than the existence of Menzoberranzan or the creation of warforged by House Cannith.

[HalfDragonCube]

The way I calculated it was that a colossal creature already has a 128ft vertical reach and it seemed like a vertical jump's DC was the heightx4. Past that, I think I forgot that it only got a bonus of 12x4 for rush speed rather than 120x4. Big oops.

I'd like to see how we can calculate the volume of the Tarrasque. It seems to me that if its volume is any more than the volume of water that weighs 130 tons, it can float. Then again, people go to school for building ships and the method might actually be much more complex...

Str mod of +17. Speed of 150ft when rushing gives a +48 bonus. Tarry has a +65 mod to jump when rushing. This gives an average jump height of 18.75 feet up into the air if it gets a run up. Boing goes the Tarry.

Working out how dense Tarry is:

It is not stated how wide Tarry is, so I'm going to assume the it is as wide as it is tall, like in the picture. 70 x 50 x 50 = 175,000 cubic feet if Tarry was a cuboid. Say it filled up half of its cuboid total, so it has a volume of roughly 87,500 cubic feet. Convert this to litres and you get around 2477724 litres.

The weight is 130 tons, convert this to kilos and you get about 132086 kg.

Water weighs one kilogram/litre. Tarry weighs 132086/2477724 kilograms per litre. This means Tarry has about 1/18th of the density of water. He floats incredibly well. Imagine being made of the foam toys you see in swimming pools.

:confused:

I must have got that wrong somewhere, please point it out.

[Arbitrarious]

It is also specifically immune to any condition or effect that causes incurable wounds. It takes 868 points of damage every time it starves, but starvation doesn't stop it from regenerating, and doesn't deal damage fast enough to overcome its regeneration.

True. Doesn't it eat every few months anyway, and potentially sleep for years at a time? I don't think starvation or dehydration would be a pressing issue.

[HalfDragonCube]

True. Doesn't it eat every few months anyway, and potentially sleep for years at a time? I don't think starvation or dehydration would be a pressing issue.

That and it has a ravenous appetite.

Hunger just makes it ANGRY!

[TroubleBrewing]

I must have got that wrong somewhere, please point it out.

No, in all honesty, you probably have it right.

One of the things you notice about monsters in all of the MM's is that Wizards is really, really, REALLY bad at estimating the weight of... Everything.

It's like they look at a picture, yell out the door, "Hey, Bob, what's a really big number?" and Bob yells "I dunno, like 130?"

[Volthawk]

No, in all honesty, you probably have it right.

One of the things you notice about monsters in all of the MM's is that Wizards is really, really, REALLY bad at estimating the weight of... Everything.

It's like they look at a picture, yell out the door, "Hey, Bob, what's a really big number?" and Bob yells "I dunno, like 130?"

Yeah, Balors and Pit Fiends are similar. Both the same height (and take up the same space on the grid, both being Large), but the Pit Fiend is 800lbs, and the Balor is 4,500lbs.

[Ravens_cry]

"Artists are not Architects" trope meets "Square Cube Law."
Of course, any of these enormous beasts would need to be super light in order to move, let alone fly. I am looking at you dragons.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

...Apply to Spelljammer. It's a campaign setting, and is no more true in the general rules than the existence of Menzoberranzan or the creation of warforged by House Cannith.

They're also the only rules available for determining the effects of being hurled into a star.

[Cog]

They're also the only rules available for determining the effects of being hurled into a star.
No, they aren't. I've already referenced other, core, rules earlier in this thread, in the very post you first quoted. :smallconfused:

[faceroll]

"Artists are not Architects" trope meets "Square Cube Law."
Of course, any of these enormous beasts would need to be super light in order to move, let alone fly. I am looking at you dragons.

Assuming homogeneity of building materials, sure. There's nothing in the rules that says dragons and humans are made of the same stuff. Tanks move just fine, but a tank sized person wouldn't do so well.

[Doomboy911]

I always thought the small dragons used their wings and big dragons used magic.

[Dralnu]

Pit it against The Hulk. Neverending entertainment!

[Doomboy911]

Also if you can get the tarrasque down there why not just force cage and make him stay until he passes out than chain him down.

[faceroll]

Also if you can get the tarrasque down there why not just force cage and make him stay until he passes out than chain him down.

Forcecage doesn't work on creatures that big.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Reverse Gravity.

No Save. No spell resistance.

The tarrasque floats harmlessly in the air while the PCs kill it with their all their distance weaponry.

[Doomboy911]

Wait couldn't one just cast reverse gravity outside and have it forever fall up?

[Tvtyrant]

Wait couldn't one just cast reverse gravity outside and have it forever fall up?

It would only fly up to the range of the spell.

[Doomboy911]

So once this thing reaches so high up it will begin to fall which will put it back into the spell's range sending it back up out of the range causing it to fall. We're having trouble killing the thing but we just found out how to juggle one.

[Qwertystop]

Isn't there a combination of templates and feats that effectively turns all damage into nonlethal damage and makes you immune to nonlethal damage? I think it was some sort of Golem-y template and something with Regeneration of some kind.
If you're immune to all damage, you can just scratch-damage it to death as long as you can do at least 1 damage per round more than its regeneration.

[Volthawk]

Isn't there a combination of templates and feats that effectively turns all damage into nonlethal damage and makes you immune to nonlethal damage? I think it was some sort of Golem-y template and something with Regeneration of some kind.
If you're immune to all damage, you can just scratch-damage it to death as long as you can do at least 1 damage per round more than its regeneration.

Yeah, the Emerald Legion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587).

[TroubleBrewing]

We're having trouble killing the thing

... Not even remotely. Once you've used one of the half-dozen methods Eldan rattled off, scroll of Wish and your Big T problem is solved.

I don't really see any "trouble" there. :smalltongue:

[No brains]

Reverse Gravity.

No Save. No spell resistance.

The tarrasque floats harmlessly in the air while the PCs kill it with their all their distance weaponry.

Wouldn't its poorly worded Carapace still reflect the reverse gravity away from it some of the time?

Also remember that by jump rules, the creature can reach 128ft. Any less than that and a mean DM could have it reach down and pull itself up/down to the ground to start 'climbing' vengefully toward you.

[Doomboy911]

Dear thunder that's a terrifying sight. A roaring tarrasque pulling itself towards you from the sky.

[Ravens_cry]

Assuming homogeneity of building materials, sure. There's nothing in the rules that says dragons and humans are made of the same stuff. Tanks move just fine, but a tank sized person wouldn't do so well.
Well, considering that a) normally weapons harm them b) they are potentially affected by almost all spell and effects that affect living creatures made of flesh and bone, including most poisons, saying they are made of special material, when the rules nowhere say so, strikes this one as a particularly feeble handwave.:smallsigh:

[Tvtyrant]

Well, considering that a) normally weapons harm them b) they are potentially affected by almost all spell and effects that affect living creatures made of flesh and bone, including most poisons, saying they are made of special material, when the rules nowhere say so, strikes this one as a particularly feeble handwave.:smallsigh:

Poisons work on aberrations, even the ones that are made of weird materials. Honestly, how could Elves get the same diseases as Goblins, much less Beholders?

[Ravens_cry]

Poisons work on aberrations, even the ones that are made of weird materials. Honestly, how could Elves get the same diseases as Goblins, much less Beholders?
Geeze Louis and french peas!:smallyuk:
The game doesn't cover everything, thank god, but there is nothing to suggest dragons are made of packing foam. It's just a common mistake made by artist and authors who haven't done the research. many comic book artists make the same mistake when giving statistics for human beings (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NotDrawnToScale), are you going to suggest that this means the ordanary humans in comic books are made of some special material? It's just an error, live with it, I do, and I am a 3.5 fanbeing.
Besides, aberrations must be still made of, at least mostly, meat, as they still need to eat sleep and breath (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm).

[Flickerdart]

Well, considering that a) normally weapons harm them b) they are potentially affected by almost all spell and effects that affect living creatures made of flesh and bone, including most poisons, saying they are made of special material, when the rules nowhere say so, strikes this one as a particularly feeble handwave.:smallsigh:
The larger dragons (and the more they stretch credibility, the more this applies) are practically immune to normal weapons, and resistant to magic. Being affected by poisons just means they have blood; besides which, they have great Fort saves so they become practically immune to mundane poisons. Sounds like supernatural material to me.

[Suichimo]

I may be wrong, since I've literally never used the action or even bothered to look it up before, but Sundering seems to be an action you can just do during any attack, you just target something other than the actual target.

So, and I know the OP said keep it in the mortal realm but we're talking about hurling it into the sun and teleporting it 35k feet down into the ocean so I think we've long left reasonable, as long as you can get it to the Astral Plane, how would smacking its Astral Cord with a Githyanki Silver Sword using the maneuver Ancient Mountain Hammer affect the Tarrasque?

[Eldan]

Wouldn't its poorly worded Carapace still reflect the reverse gravity away from it some of the time?


No, actually:
deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells.
That's a very narrow list of actually reflected spells.

[HalfDragonCube]

No, actually:
deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells.
That's a very narrow list of actually reflected spells.

It deflects cones?

How do you work out how the cone bounces?

[TroubleBrewing]

How do you work out how the cone bounces?

Easy.

Read up on your Lovecraft. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlienGeometries)

[HalfDragonCube]

Easy.

Read up on your Lovecraft. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlienGeometries)

The primary attack of Tarry is now 'breaks your mind by reflecting cones'.

Who needs claws when you tear away the thin veil mortals refer to as their 'sanity'?

[Necroticplague]

I fail to see what part about reflecting cones is complicated. You simply rotate the cone 180 degrees so that the point that is a line bisector of the base and the angle formed from the unincluded sides of the base angles switch places. I think it would look something like this (w being wizard, lines are cone, t is tarrasque):
Before:
w
/ \
/ \
/ \
---t---
After:
---w---
\ /
\ /
\ /
t

Use the plane by which the cone is a triangle for easy calculation (angle fired at does not matter).

[Doomboy911]

Ah so funny if you want to fight the tarrasque you better remember what you learned in the eighth grade.

[TroubleBrewing]

Ironically, I was in the 8th grade the first time our group encountered Big T.

[Doomboy911]

What if someone used the reverse gravity juggling effect to hold the tarrasque between two spiked walls or if you pinned it on acidic spiked walls it would forever take damage keeping it comatose.

[TroubleBrewing]

Sure, but drowning is easier.

[HalfDragonCube]

Sure, but drowning is easier.

Drowning it? I just proved that it floats. Unless you keep it in a container held under the water then it will just swim towards you and feed.

Also, that wouldn't kill it, just make it unconscious.

[TroubleBrewing]

That's why you planeshift to the elemental plane of water. It can float all it wants, the whole plane is underwater.

[HalfDragonCube]

That's why you planeshift to the elemental plane of water. It can float all it wants, the whole plane is underwater.

It has a huge amount of spell resistance IIRC. Good luck persuading it to come with you.

[Doomboy911]

Not to be a logic nazi but doesn't there have to be an above water for their to be an underwater?

[HalfDragonCube]

You are underwater. There is lots of water above you, and you are under it.

[Tyndmyr]

It has a huge amount of spell resistance IIRC. Good luck persuading it to come with you.

Assay Spell Resistance is fantastic.

[Doomboy911]

You don't have to persuade it just bait it along until it falls into a hole where you can use a gate key to the plane of water. I had a thought if fall damage builds up as you go couldn't you drop it into the plane of air and have it continue to fall until the point where it will take forever for it to heal after you have it hit the ground?

[TroubleBrewing]

It has a huge amount of spell resistance IIRC.

SR isn't really an obstacle. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level)

Annoying, sure. Obstacle? Nah.


I had a thought if fall damage builds up as you go couldn't you drop it into the plane of air and have it continue to fall until the point where it will take forever for it to heal after you have it hit the ground?

Actually, you gain a fly speed on the plane of Air, IIRC. Weird that you don't gain water breathing on the plane of water, or fire resistance on the plane of fire, though.

[Necroticplague]

You don't have to persuade it just bait it along until it falls into a hole where you can use a gate key to the plane of water. I had a thought if fall damage builds up as you go couldn't you drop it into the plane of air and have it continue to fall until the point where it will take forever for it to heal after you have it hit the ground?

A: max fall damage is 20d6. Even if all the dice roll 6's, that's still not enough to knock T out.
B:Elemental plane of air has subjective gravity, so he could stop falling simply by thinking "their is no down."

[TroubleBrewing]

Elemental plane of air has subjective gravity, so he could stop falling simply by thinking "their is no down."

Yeah, that's the one. Subjective gravity, not a fly speed. Big T does only have an Int score of 2, so this either really helps or really screws him over.

Either he's too dumb and all he can think is "AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH NO GROUND NO GROUND NO GROUND" or he's too simple and all he thinks is "Not want fall no more," thereby stopping his fall.

I'm personally in favor of the first if I was a player, and the second if I was the GM. If only because the players faces fall so hard when you ruin their "foolproof" (NOTE: No such thing.) plans.

[Doomboy911]

What if we pulled off a flesh to stone spelled then reduced him to dust and spread that over the world. As long as the pieces are equally small he should be unable to heal from it.

[Doomboy911]

What if we pulled off a flesh to stone spell then reduced him to dust and spread that over the world. As long as the pieces are equally small he should be unable to heal from it.

[Cog]

You would still have to overcome both its SR and +38 Fort save to do that.

[Qwertystop]

If it worked, I can imagine someone selling the dust.
"With just a simple Stone to Flesh spell, provided in scroll form with your order, you too can have your own pet tarrasque in just a few months!"

[HalfDragonCube]

If it worked, I can imagine someone selling the dust.
"With just a simple Stone to Flesh spell, provided in scroll form with your order, you too can have your own pet tarrasque in just a few months!"

Shame that with the spell description it would still be dust, albeit fleshy dust. Maybe if it also came with a scroll of Make Whole...

[Strife Warzeal]

Shame that with the spell description it would still be dust, albeit fleshy dust. Maybe if it also came with a scroll of Make Whole...

Would fleshy dust regenerate is the question I think, I guess Make Whole could work.

[Flickerdart]

What if we pulled off a flesh to stone spelled then reduced him to dust and spread that over the world. As long as the pieces are equally small he should be unable to heal from it.
Then each speck of dust regenerates into a new Tarrasque. Surprise! :smalltongue:

[Doomboy911]

But if I take a knife and cut off a small slab of the tarrasque that doesn't regenerate into a whole other tarrasque

[Hazzardevil]

I wonder, would killing the Mr big T some Mundane way with swords or whatever and then using the Dead Walk or something to animate stop it coming back?

[TroubleBrewing]

I wonder, would killing the Mr big T some Mundane way with swords or whatever and then using the Dead Walk or something to animate stop it coming back?

Big T is largely a DM plot device; he shows up, causes some havoc, and then slumbers once more.

It would largely be up to your DM; if Big T is an unkillable force of nature, then probably not. If he's just another big, scary monster, then maybe.

[Cog]

I wonder, would killing the Mr big T some Mundane way with swords or whatever and then using the Dead Walk or something to animate stop it coming back?
Mundane attacks can't kill a creature with regeneration. Nonlethal damage will take it down but not kill it.