Dweomerkeeper question: SU Spell and creating items.

[gomipile]

Dweomerkeepers, according to their fluff, are creators of magic items. The entry requirements for the prestige class include not only an item creation feat, but for the character to have created at least one magic item.

So, since Supernatural Spell is a(if not the) primary ability of the Dweomerkeeper, can a Dweomerkeeper use that ability to create a magic item without incurring the XP and material costs of a spell required?

[Gamer Girl]

I'd guess your using the Complete Divine Web Enhancement one? As the Faiths and Pantheons version does not have that ability.

If your using the old version, then yes, you can create a magic item without incurring the XP and material costs of a spell required.

Though, naturally, that ability should have the Errata:

Spells which Cost XP upon casting still cost XP to use as a Supernatural Spell

[gomipile]

I'd guess your using the Complete Divine Web Enhancement one? As the Faiths and Pantheons version does not have that ability.

If your using the old version, then yes, you can create a magic item without incurring the XP and material costs of a spell required.

Though, naturally, that ability should have the Errata:

Spells which Cost XP upon casting still cost XP to use as a Supernatural Spell

I'm sorry, your language confuses me. You say "should have", and then use the term "Errata." Errata is official, but your use of "should have" implies "does not have."

It cannot be both official and not exist simultaneously. Is there, in fact, such an errata on Supernatural Spell from WotC?

[gomipile]

I'm still a bit confused about this.

[Gamer Girl]

No, the Dweomerkeepers 'Errata' is not official.

Like I said, by RAW you are free to make magic items with no spell cost. Or even better, just wish for items.

I say should have as in ''any intelligent person should be able to see this obvious mistake and correct it with common sense.''

But, granted, WotC could never get a real editor who wouls spot this type of thing. And worse they could not get a good game rule type editor to spot the stuff my six year old can spot as a problem(''I can summon anything with a Gate, for example'').

[Glimbur]

So, since Supernatural Spell is a(if not the) primary ability of the Dweomerkeeper, can a Dweomerkeeper use that ability to create a magic item without incurring the XP and material costs of a spell required?

Nope. Abilities do what they say they do. The ability lets one use a spell as a Su ability. It says nothing about creating items for free. Therefore... no.

[gomipile]

Nope. Abilities do what they say they do. The ability lets one use a spell as a Su ability. It says nothing about creating items for free. Therefore... no.

That's like saying anything not explicitly permitted is implicitly forbidden.

I welcome actual rules analysis on this, but you offer no cogent explanation. You essentially just offered an opinion, and attempted to dress it up as fact.

[Cog]

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect.
Supernatural sources are not on the list.

[Hyooz]

That's like saying anything not explicitly permitted is implicitly forbidden.
Not really, it's just not reading fluff into crunch to further break an already borked class. Like Cog pointed out, Supernatural abilities can't be used to create magic items, and since the Dweomerkeeper doesn't specify that spells cast this way can be used to create items, the only conclusion is "No."

[Aspenor]

You spend XP to create the item, not to cast the spell into the item. I don't see how that's confusing at all.

[HunterOfJello]

As mentioned above, only spells and spell-like abilities may be used for purposes of item creation. Supernatural abilities cannot. The great benefit of Supernatural abilities is that they ignore SR, don't invoke AoO, can't be dispelled, can't be counterspelled, and do not require somatic components. The only limitation of Supernatural Abilities is that they do not work inside of Anti-magic fields.

Dweomerkeepers are still one of the most powerful prestige classes in the game. Their Mantle of Spells ability and Supernatural Spell ability could each make up a powerful prestige class seperately. Together with Arcane Sight at-will and a capstone of Cloak of mysteries, this PrC is definitely god-tier.