Somthing's wrong with this Level Adjustment...

[Getsugaru]

So I was randomly flipping through the Fiend Folio, when something catches my eye: a picture of what appears to be a man made of quicksilver wearing a robe. Under the picture, it says it's called a Sillit. It looks interesting, so I start reading about it. As I read I notice something; it has 7d8 HD, a CR of 6, and a LA of 18?!? What's up with that?

Can someone check this out? It's the Fiend Folio, pg 127-130. Thanks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It definitely says +18 LA, and there's no mention of it in the errata nor the update booklet. It's probably a typo and was intended to be +8, but RAW it's +18.

[RaginChangeling]

It definitely says +18 LA, and there's no mention of it in the errata nor the update booklet. It's probably a typo and was intended to be +8, but RAW it's +18.

Its actually probably not a typo, about two pages back its listed in the paragraph text with the other Nerra as +18. I think its a case of massively overvaluing the reflective spell resistance and mirror walk.

[byaku rai]

What sort of special abilities and such does it have? :smalleek: I haven't seen anything with that high a level adjustment since Giant characters.

[Amnestic]

What sort of special abilities and such does it have? :smalleek: I haven't seen anything with that high a level adjustment since Giant characters.

Special Abilities: Shard Spray 3/Day. 30' cone, 1d6/Level damage (Maximum 5d6), has a bleed effect. At Will: Change Self, False Vision, Mirror Image. 3/Day: Mislead. Caster level 16th.
Special Qualities: Cold, Electric, Fire resist 15. Mirror Jump. Outsider traits. Reflective Spell Resistance 19. Sonic Vulnerability.

The LA does seem kinda high, especially compared to the Varoot immediately after who has 'lesser' versions of the Sillit's Qualities, no shard spray and fewer SLAs who only has an LA of +3. +8 seems far more reasonable for the Sillit.

[Sarco_Phage]

If that stuff makes it the equivalent of an 18th level character, I will eat my foot.

[RaginChangeling]

If that stuff makes it the equivalent of an 18th level character, I will eat my foot.

I think you mean 25th level character, 7 racial HD.

[The Glyphstone]

If that stuff makes it the equivalent of an 18th level character, I will eat my foot.

Worse. With 7d8 HD, it's the equivalent of a 25th level character.

[Sarco_Phage]

OKAY.

YOU SEE WHAT YOU'VE DONE, POORLY THOUGHT OUT CREATURE?

You've CRIPPLED ME FOR LIFE.

Of course, poorly thought out critters is no real new thing, but...

[Kylarra]

Being immune to the scry half of scry and die might be worth 18LA.



:smalltongue:

[Strife Warzeal]

Worse. With 7d8 HD, it's the equivalent of a 25th level character.

So you have to get into mid-epic before you can even take a class level...

[jguy]

no no no...it is obviously LA +1.8

[Greenish]

Being immune to the scry half of scry and die might be worth 18LA.Tell that to skulk.

[ZerglingOne]

Check out Scorpionfolk in MM2. A 12hd +16LA creature type. In fact, in a little fluff caption it says "reports of scorpionfolk sorcerers have not been confirmed." Not surprising with a +16LA race that starts with 12hd. They are base CR 7.

Edit: Then again, given how vague it is on what a scorpionfolk character starts with as far as stats, HD, and the like, the 12 hd COULD be factored in meaning it would be LA 4 on top of that.

[Getsugaru]

Check out Scorpionfolk in MM2. A 12hd +16LA creature type. In fact, in a little fluff caption it says "reports of scorpionfolk sorcerers have not been confirmed." Not surprising with a +16LA race that starts with 12hd. They are base CR 7.

Edit: Then again, given how vague it is on what a scorpionfolk character starts with as far as stats, HD, and the like, the 12 hd COULD be factored in meaning it would be LA 4 on top of that.

I actually took a look at that, and what you read was it's effective character level, or ECL. It actually doesn't list a level adjustment at all; we can only presume that it's a +4 LA because its ECL is 16+Class levels (16ECL-12HD=4).

[Bang!]

I actually took a look at that, and what you read was it's effective character level, or ECL. It actually doesn't list a level adjustment at all; we can only presume that it's a +4 LA because its ECL is 16+Class levels (16ECL-12HD=4). I don't know whethe it's from the books or errata, but the srd agrees with you.

[Flickerdart]

3.0 books list all their LAs like that. Isn't Fiend Folio also a 3.0 book? So the ridiculous LA of 18 is actually the ridiculous LA of 11?

[Urpriest]

3.0 books list all their LAs like that. Isn't Fiend Folio also a 3.0 book? So the ridiculous LA of 18 is actually the ridiculous LA of 11?

This isn't the case in the Fiend Folio, though. It was published late enough that it uses the 3.5 definition of Level Adjustment, as can be seen with the monsters that have "As Characters" entries, like the Maug.

[Sacrieur]

They follow specific guidelines to calculate LA. The guidelines are incredibly broken. Major spell abilities raise LA a bunch, as does reflective spell resistance.

[Prime32]

The WotC guidelines for calculating LA seem to be "the lowest level at which a spellcaster could use their most powerful ability, +1 for each additional ability". Racial HD is never taken into account, and neither are restrictions on these abilities. For instance, a self-only version of etherealness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/etherealness.htm) which functions for 1 round 1/day is still treated as a 9th-level spell, not even as a 7th-level one (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/etherealJaunt.htm).


For instance, the nymph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nymph.htm) has 6HD. It casts spells as a 7th-level druid, but has worse BAB/hp from its Fey HD, trades the druid's stupidly powerful class features (wild shape, animal companion) for weaker ones, and gains bonuses to ability scores it doesn't use (compared to the druid getting larger pluses from wild shape wherever it wants).

It has LA +7, making it a 13th-level character.


Yes, by WotC's standards a template which gives you -2 to all mental stats and Extra Spell Slot as a bonus feat would have +17 LA. But only if the slot can be used by non-casters, otherwise it's LA +0.


One thing Pathfinder did right - they let PCs play monsters at CR=ECL and also reworked monsters to have HD closer to their CR so they don't die instantly to anti-mook spells. (though I prefer the Tome system (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Races_of_War_%283.5e_Sourcebook%29/Playing_Unusual_Races#Powerful_Races))

[Aricandor]

I find it amusing that a race with spell resistance would have so much level adjustment that it's effectively useless at the minimum playable level. :smallbiggrin:

[Yora]

That's why in so many cases, level adjustment is "no!".