Frenzied Berserker

[kiryoku]

is this class any good for a two handed weapon using charging barbarian it looks too good to be true but i want some other opinions on it.

[Sacrieur]

This class actually increases tier by 1. Which means your barbarian becomes tier 3.

---

Anyway, yeah, FB is one of the best things out of the CW, outside of supplying us with samurai jokes. In fact, taking FB with a two handed weapon is an exceptionally good idea. Especially after you get Supreme Power Attack.

[kiryoku]

i thought so and iam a warforged too so its even more awesome

[Greenish]

This class actually increases tier by 1. Which means your barbarian becomes tier 3.It doesn't. FB is just more of the same: charge and do damage, with no new options.

And you'll fly into frenzy every time you take damage, which can waste your daily uses. Gods forbid there'd be anything slippery when you take damage.

[IthroZada]

Just remember to boost your will save, and maybe take a feat that lets you not fail on a natural one.... Nobody likes it when the Frenzied Berserker murders his entire party.


Also, pretend that your temporary hp doesn't exist, and never ever use Deathless Frenzy.

[kiryoku]

good point ill have to buy some item to raise my will save because that would suck alot we won yay crap we just killed each other.

[Sacrieur]

It doesn't. FB is just more of the same: charge and do damage, with no new options.

And you'll fly into frenzy every time you take damage, which can waste your daily uses. Gods forbid there'd be anything slippery when you take damage.

Good sir, if you would care to look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107618), you will notice that FB is listed under the "up one tier" category. I am not particularly suggesting it makes for a highly versatile tier 3 class, but is certainly above one trick pony level.

---


good point ill have to buy some item to raise my will save because that would suck alot we won yay crap we just killed each other.


A cleric or wizard is particularly useful for insurance, calm person does the trick.

[kiryoku]

umm do you know any classes or feats (other then iron will) that help will saves.
i am supposed to make a gestalt.

[IthroZada]

Steadfast Determination (PHB 2) adds your Constitution modifier to will.

[kiryoku]

that is awesome thanks that almost eliminates the hurting team mates problem.

[Greenish]

Good sir, if you would care to look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107618), you will notice that FB is listed under the "up one tier" category. I am not particularly suggesting it makes for a highly versatile tier 3 class, but is certainly above one trick pony level.You perhaps missed this part:
So for this, I'll be referring to Tiers and how the PrC changes them, but I'm aware that there's multiple Tier systems out there that differ in substantial ways, and that some of these gradings will put classes into places they just don't belong when taken literally. A Tier 3 with an "up one" PrC wouldn't necessarily be a Tier 2, and a Tier 1 with a "down two" PrC would probably still be better than most Tier 3 classes. There will also be classes that go off the top or bottom of the scale. The goal is merely to make it clear that an "up two" is better than an "up one", and that both are only in reference to the starting point as given by the "logical entry". To repeat: the ranking is not literal. It's just a guideline to help novice or intermediate players know where to start looking.

Anyhow, a Frenzied Berserker only has one trick: charging and power attacking things to death. It's very, very good at what it does, but it has no other trick. That is the very definition of an one-trick pony (and tier 4, for that matter).


Oh, and you might want to ask your DM to fix the limits on what you can do in frenzy: currently you can't Balance at all, so any slippery terrain just shuts you down.

[Doc Roc]

You perhaps missed this part:

Anyhow, a Frenzied Berserker only has one trick: charging and power attacking things to death. It's very, very good at what it does, but it has no other trick. That is the very definition of an one-trick pony (and tier 4, for that matter).


Oh, and you might want to ask your DM to fix the limits on what you can do in frenzy: currently you can't Balance at all, so any slippery terrain just shuts you down.

Actually, it also makes with the not-falling-over-too-soon. Which is an interesting useful trick.

[herrhauptmann]

A cleric or wizard is particularly useful for insurance, calm person does the trick.

If you're going to rely on the wizard or cleric to use their precious spell slots to help your character, you should help them in return. Buy them a wand with the appropriate spell in it, or a pearl of power, or ring of wizardry. Something like that.

No game sucks worse for the caster if their first action in combat is to fix holes in your character build.

DM: Guys, ready for your underdark campaign?
Halfling Rogue: Yes, got my goggles of darkvision
Dwarf cleric (non-optimal tier build): Yes
Human barbarian: I got 2 torches. Lets do this!
Gnome Scout: Good to go.

Combat 1:
Human barbarian:I can't see, someone help me! I attack the square next to me!
Cleric: Ouch! *Takes 40 damage* Casts Light.

Combat 2:
Human barbarian:I can't see, someone help me! I attack the square next to me! Full power attack
Cleric: Ouch! *Takes 90 damage* Casts Light.

Boss fight:
Human barbarian:I can't see, someone help me! I attack the square next to me! Full power attack
Cleric: Ouch! *Takes 90 damage*
Boss: Attack the cleric.
Cleric: Now at negative 7 HP -8 HP
Rogue: I go to the cleric to feed him a potion
Human barbarian: I attack where the sounds came from. Listen check + Full Attack.
Rogue: Takes 2 crits in the face. Dies.

[Leon]

Best FB usage i have heard of was a Pair of Troll Berserkers in a monstrous party

[Popertop]

A cleric or wizard is particularly useful for insurance, calm person does the trick.

A red wizard with the berserker as his puppet is even better.

He can have him fail his will save against calm emotions every time.

[gorfnab]

See if your DM would allow the feat Righteous Wrath (Book of Exalted Deeds) to apply to frenzy.

[Hirax]

See if your DM would allow the feat Righteous Wrath (Book of Exalted Deeds) to apply to frenzy.

We had a house rule that while it didn't end a frenzy, it did prevent you from doing things like attacking party members (but not innocent bystanders).

[Sarco_Phage]

If you're going to rely on the wizard or cleric to use their precious spell slots to help your character, you should help them in return. Buy them a wand with the appropriate spell in it, or a pearl of power, or ring of wizardry. Something like that.

Thank you for arguing that clerics and wizards should never buff anyone ever unless that person gives them something in return.

It's a team game, people.

[MammonAzrael]

Thank you for arguing that clerics and wizards should never buff anyone ever unless that person gives them something in return.

It's a team game, people.

True, but the frenzied berserker is a unique case. Other classes don't run the risk of mauling your teammates. They should be happy to buff you (assuming their buffers), but you should provide them with the means to keep you from killing them. Otherwise you're just a loose cannon with no regard at all for your teammates. :smallannoyed:

[Sacrieur]

The FB actually saves clerics and wizards spells. Instead of actually having to deal with things, all they must do is throw the barbarian at the problem. If the problem is serious, add some buffs.

Also, it offers a nice meatshield. FB can't die while in frenzy. Which would your opponent attack, a huge berserker with the strength of a gorilla tearing through troops like they're paper, or those squishy wizards well behind him watching your army be torn to pieces.

[herrhauptmann]

The FB actually saves clerics and wizards spells. Instead of actually having to deal with things, all they must do is throw the barbarian at the problem. If the problem is serious, add some buffs.

Also, it offers a nice meatshield. FB can't die while in frenzy. Which would your opponent attack, a huge berserker with the strength of a gorilla tearing through troops like they're paper, or those squishy wizards well behind him watching your army be torn to pieces.

BBEG: Oh noes! What ever shall I do? *Grease*
FB: *slips* RARGH!!!
BBEG: Kills rest of party who were expecting the FB to win the fight.

A meatshield is only a meatshield when he actually absorbs the hits. If he's bypassed by 1 first level spell, he's not exactly a meatshield. Other options, stand in front of a pit trap. No skill checks while in a frenzy. Anytime he tries to end the frenzy and climb out, have a minion blast him with a fireball wand. Whoops, there goes that frenzy again.

The other problem is the whole calm emotions or grease spell needed by the party caster. Yes, even if you've saved him having to cast spells in a fight, he still has to designate one of his spells known to help your character.
In the example I gave above, you think I wanted to have to prepare, and cast light for each fight, just so one character could see? Yes, yes, a caster should help out those less fortunate. But a caster shouldn't have to make someone elses character playable.
There's any number of things he could've done, among them, buy a freaking everburning torch, but he managed to spend all but 10 gold at character creation. And didn't think it would be a problem.

[Amphetryon]

If the FB - in a moment of clarity - buys a wand of Calm Emotions or Grease himself and hands it over to the party member most qualified to use it - then most of the issues of "our spellcaster has to waste resources on our meatshield" go away.

You're still at the mercy of enemy spellcasters, so you'll still need to find ways to deal with that.

[Sacrieur]

BBEG: Oh noes! What ever shall I do? *Grease*
FB: *slips* RARGH!!!
BBEG: Kills rest of party who were expecting the FB to win the fight.

A meatshield is only a meatshield when he actually absorbs the hits. If he's bypassed by 1 first level spell, he's not exactly a meatshield. Other options, stand in front of a pit trap. No skill checks while in a frenzy. Anytime he tries to end the frenzy and climb out, have a minion blast him with a fireball wand. Whoops, there goes that frenzy again.

The other problem is the whole calm emotions or grease spell needed by the party caster. Yes, even if you've saved him having to cast spells in a fight, he still has to designate one of his spells known to help your character.
In the example I gave above, you think I wanted to have to prepare, and cast light for each fight, just so one character could see? Yes, yes, a caster should help out those less fortunate. But a caster shouldn't have to make someone elses character playable.
There's any number of things he could've done, among them, buy a freaking everburning torch, but he managed to spend all but 10 gold at character creation. And didn't think it would be a problem.

See, that's when your wiggily finger friends go, "dispel magic!"

And then they laugh because they're going to counterspell all of your spells.

[MammonAzrael]

See, that's when your wiggily finger friends go, "dispel magic!"

And then they laugh because they're going to counterspell all of your spells.

If your casters can reliably dispel the BBEG's magic, then it is not the BBEG.

[herrhauptmann]

If the FB - in a moment of clarity - buys a wand of Calm Emotions or Grease himself and hands it over to the party member most qualified to use it - then most of the issues of "our spellcaster has to waste resources on our meatshield" go away.

You're still at the mercy of enemy spellcasters, so you'll still need to find ways to deal with that.

Exactly. That's what I was getting at with an earlier post.

[Urpriest]

BBEG: Oh noes! What ever shall I do? *Grease*
FB: *slips* RARGH!!!
BBEG: Kills rest of party who were expecting the FB to win the fight.

A meatshield is only a meatshield when he actually absorbs the hits. If he's bypassed by 1 first level spell, he's not exactly a meatshield. Other options, stand in front of a pit trap. No skill checks while in a frenzy. Anytime he tries to end the frenzy and climb out, have a minion blast him with a fireball wand. Whoops, there goes that frenzy again.

The other problem is the whole calm emotions or grease spell needed by the party caster. Yes, even if you've saved him having to cast spells in a fight, he still has to designate one of his spells known to help your character.
In the example I gave above, you think I wanted to have to prepare, and cast light for each fight, just so one character could see? Yes, yes, a caster should help out those less fortunate. But a caster shouldn't have to make someone elses character playable.
There's any number of things he could've done, among them, buy a freaking everburning torch, but he managed to spend all but 10 gold at character creation. And didn't think it would be a problem.

Minor nitpick: Grease and the like don't make Frenzied Berserkers fall down. You only fall down if you fail a check, and Frenzied Berserkers can't make Balance checks while in Frenzy. However, they have to make a check to move, so the spell does immobilize them handily enough. Also, a pit trap won't help, Climb is a Strength-based skill, as is Jump.

[herrhauptmann]

Thought they'd auto fail the climb checks as well.
Just gotta make it deep enough they can't jump straight out. Not all pit traps are the same depth.

[Urpriest]

Thought they'd auto fail the climb checks as well.
Just gotta make it deep enough they can't jump straight out. Not all pit traps are the same depth.

Strength-based skills are fine in Frenzy, so the character can climb. That said, climbing and jumping out of pits is generally less useful than flying out of them anyway.

[The Cat Goddess]

Iron Heart Surge! Hey, I'm not Frenzied anymore.

I know there's a feat that makes certain Str-based skills become Dex-based... why not create a feat that makes certain Dex-based skills become Str-based? :smallbiggrin:

[pilvento]

Iron Heart Surge! Hey, I'm not Frenzied anymore.

I know there's a feat that makes certain Str-based skills become Dex-based... why not create a feat that makes certain Dex-based skills become Str-based? :smallbiggrin:

like "break lock", "break device" or "break wall to make a hole where to hide"

[MeeposFire]

Iron Heart Surge! Hey, I'm not Frenzied anymore.

I know there's a feat that makes certain Str-based skills become Dex-based... why not create a feat that makes certain Dex-based skills become Str-based? :smallbiggrin:

You can't use iron heart surge in general since you have to attack if you can. Since iron heart surge is a standard action you will not be able to attack so you can't use it. A factotum might be able to since it can spend inspiration to get an extra standard action (and thus can use it after it attack something to immediately end the frenzy legally) but outside of that or similar iron heart surge will not help.

There are still problems relying on spellcasters and that is if for any reason they cannot get the required spell off in time a berserker has the power to kill one or more characters in one round so even at best you will be making a dangerous gamble every fight.

[Gray Mage]

The balance makes you immobile trick can work both ways, instead of relying on magic, have your party members carry marbles and stay away. Lots of marbles. :smalltongue:

[kiryoku]

i see some of you love the frenzied berserker and others hate it with a passion.

[Geigan]

i see some of you love the frenzied berserker and others hate it with a passion.

All depends on the whether the berserker we've encountered had a good will save or not. Some idiots take the class without thinking about the effect of that bloodlust after the encounter... or worse they intentionally take it to with a low will save to mess up the campaign. Those guys are known as Frenzied Munchkins. They froth at the mouth at the suggestion of non-optimization.

[herrhauptmann]

i see some of you love the frenzied berserker and others hate it with a passion.

As stated, a FB who's willing to fix the gaping holes in his character isn't bad.
But if he spends all his money on weapons/armor, and then expects the party caster to freely donate their spell slots to fix his character, I get annoyed. And that goes for any character with critical flaws (not flaws for feats, actual flaws), like the aforementioned human who couldn't see in the dark.
Though if he can't stop himself from frenzying, and ends up starting each fight winded, or without any more frenzies for the day, because he stubbed his toe, that irritates me too.

[MeeposFire]

For me I actually prefer not having any frenzies. I just go off by myself and use them all alone so I never attack my party. Frenzy isn't that great. I don't plan to ever go below 0 HP and all the rest of its benefits are nice but not that great. What the berserker really gives you is an awesome power attack. That is the true power of the prc.

Even if you have a decent will you will fail the saving throw against damage. For instance let us assume there is one sniper assassin in town (why not eventually somebody will hate you enough) and he snipes you for 50 damage that round. You will have to make a DC 60 will save. Good luck with that and if the berserker goes next the entire party is in extreme danger. Remember to that the save is based on the total damage taken since the berserkers last action so multiple hits from multiple enemies can cause an escalating DC.

[Sacrieur]

As stated, a FB who's willing to fix the gaping holes in his character isn't bad.
But if he spends all his money on weapons/armor, and then expects the party caster to freely donate their spell slots to fix his character, I get annoyed. And that goes for any character with critical flaws (not flaws for feats, actual flaws), like the aforementioned human who couldn't see in the dark.
Though if he can't stop himself from frenzying, and ends up starting each fight winded, or without any more frenzies for the day, because he stubbed his toe, that irritates me too.

Except clerics tend to be good aligned. Which means they'll gladly help the barbarian not kill innocent creatures. What's this idea of pulling your own weight floating around here? Aren't parties formed because each member contributes a special skill? It's no more than asking the cleric to heal you after a battle, or having the wizard cast disintegrate to get out of a force cage.

As said before. It is a team game. Or should the FB not offer his services as meatshield?

[MeeposFire]

Except clerics tend to be good aligned. Which means they'll gladly help the barbarian not kill innocent creatures. What's this idea of pulling your own weight floating around here? Aren't parties formed because each member contributes a special skill? It's no more than asking the cleric to heal you after a battle, or having the wizard cast disintegrate to get out of a force cage.

As said before. It is a team game. Or should the FB not offer his services as meatshield?

FBs aren't particulary great for a meat shield. In fact it is better to ignore him since he cannot be killed so anybody who scouts your parties abilities would know to

1) Try to get the FB to kill the party

2) If you end up being attacked by the FB kill the rest of the party first and run until the frenzy wears off. This would be the opposite of being a meat shield.

FBs are less meat shield and more melee striker to use a 4e term. Fbs make things difficult in a party since they have to prpare for his mere presence as he can be more dangerous to them than his enemies and he brings nothing to the party outside of really high damage (which others can bring minus the danger).

[Dusk Eclipse]

1)Have the arcanist in the group take Red Wizard levels

2)Have the FB take a level of Thayan Knight (CWar)

3)The FB know will auto fail his saves against [mind affecting] spells such as calm emotions (assuming they are cast by the Red Wizard in the party)

4)?????

5) Profit :smallcool:

[MeeposFire]

Spellcasters can already deal with a FB if they can get the spell off in time without a save (hello grease in most situations). The trouble is not stopping the FB it is stopping him in time every time. For instance your red wizard is stunned, dazed, asleep, or otherwise unable to cast a spell. The last enemy dies now what? I hope you have a contingency plan or you are dead. That is the trouble considering if you think about it how many times will their be a chance that something goes wrong as a PC. It is very high because nearly everything that happens in the game involves the PCs in some way (directly or indirectly).

[herrhauptmann]

Except clerics tend to be good aligned. Which means they'll gladly help the barbarian not kill innocent creatures. What's this idea of pulling your own weight floating around here? Aren't parties formed because each member contributes a special skill? It's no more than asking the cleric to heal you after a battle, or having the wizard cast disintegrate to get out of a force cage.

As said before. It is a team game. Or should the FB not offer his services as meatshield?

"A guy with a big sword that hits for a lot of damage." is not the definition of a meatshield.

The Frenzied Berserker is a poor meatshield. If you define meatshield as someone who stands there and protects the weaker members from getting hit. Which is the real definition.
You need to be effective in combat, and give the enemy an incentive to attack you and not the other party members, and stay alive while doing so. The dwarven defender does not do that, there is no incentive to not bypass him. The knight however, does.
FB does not do that. In fact, there's no point to attacking the FB ever. Every time you hit him, he mightwill start to frenzy. As soon as he frenzies, he's not going to actually die until the frenzy ends. Where is there an incentive to hit the FB?
RE: Characters pulling their weight.

They're not pulling their weight if they expect the casters to automatically help them. Maybe the cleric follows a deity of war. Calm Emotions would be a poor spell, thematically, for such a cleric to prepare.
Now there's two characters, if either wants to play his character idea, he needs the other play to against his own character idea.
What the FB should do in such a situation, is metagame a little during item purchasing, (or give up a part of his share of the loot). Buy a wand of calm emotions, and give it to the cleric. Now the cleric can prepare the spells he wants. The FB can fight and frenzy as he desires. All without killing the party.
You whine about it being a team game. Yes it is a team game. But all you've been spouting is "Help my character!" Not "Let me help you, help my character."

[Sacrieur]

FBs aren't particulary great for a meat shield. In fact it is better to ignore him since he cannot be killed so anybody who scouts your parties abilities would know to

1) Try to get the FB to kill the party

2) If you end up being attacked by the FB kill the rest of the party first and run until the frenzy wears off. This would be the opposite of being a meat shield.

FBs are less meat shield and more melee striker to use a 4e term. Fbs make things difficult in a party since they have to prpare for his mere presence as he can be more dangerous to them than his enemies and he brings nothing to the party outside of really high damage (which others can bring minus the danger).

That's supposing they know what a frenzied berserker is. It's awful lot of metagaming if you ask me.



FB does not do that. In fact, there's no point to attacking the FB ever. Every time you hit him, he mightwill start to frenzy. As soon as he frenzies, he's not going to actually die until the frenzy ends. Where is there an incentive to hit the FB?

The part where minions don't know any better. Guy rushing at you in mad rage with sword. What is any enemy going to do in this instance? Roll for knowledge (barbarians) to figure out what the hell is rushing at you? Or are you going to respond to the attack and try to avoid getting slashed to pieces?

Even PCs should not react to a FB in that way.

---

Saying that a grease spell makes the FB useless is a bad argument to out the FB. Grease is a terrific spell that works on any number of classes with mediocre reflex saves. So it works on wizards, sorcerers, factotums, clerics, paladins, warblades, crusaders, psions, psiwarriors, etc...

[MeeposFire]

That's supposing they know what a frenzied berserker is. It's awful lot of metagaming if you ask me.

I don't know about that. How many times can you see a target that gets frothing angry from being smacked lightly and never dies while being angry do you need to see before you decide that the best way to deal with him is to make him angry at his friends or kill his friends while you wait for him to calm down? Note I did say scout the FB I did not just assume that the enemy knew it or no reason. FBs are not subtle by any stretch of the imagination. Though I am sure that they may know to call it a Frezied Berserker but they will quicly learn the limits and problems the FB has and presents, especially if they notice the fact the party is using unusual resources on the FB itself. They can piece it together via knowledge checks (or bards).

[CheshireCatAW]

FB makes a decent meat shield for most dungeon crawls where the enemies may as well be mindless and the PC's have control of every situation.

The problem arises that the FB causes more problems than it solves. Heavy DPS can be done by a number of classes while still being able to control the enemy or denying your party one of its most powerful abilities, a standard action from a caster. Part of the cost is covered by buying a wand or somesuch. Another cost is the standard action it takes to cast it. There are SO many spells that require at least one of those and if the enemy party finds a way to make himself scarce (invisibility, teleport, fly, secret passage, hide, etc) you are going to be using a standard action to keep your own party member from killing the party instead of detecting/following the bad guy.

There's really no reason to target the guy. Most people in the game will know that in a party the guy who calls down meteors and makes the battlefield melt is the primary target. Squishy + Potential means that it's a priority target. I would argue that, while the frothing barbarian is intimidating, any enemy that can think in such a situation will know to avoid him and hit the squishies. And the FB can do little to nothing to actually prevent that from happening.

[Hirax]

What the berserker really gives you is an awesome power attack. That is the true power of the prc.

Agree 100%. The +6 strength isn't that great, and the extra attack is easily found elsewhere.

[Sacrieur]

Agree 100%. The +6 strength isn't that great, and the extra attack is easily found elsewhere.

+6 increases to +10 later on. And IIRC, you can use it with rage.

[MeeposFire]

Still is not that big of a deal. That is just a few points here and there. Most of your damage comes from full attack power attack charging and those extra few points are insignificant to the total outcome. That is why I advocate for just using frenzies at the start of the day alone. You won't hurt your party (thus you are not a liability) and you get super power attack bonuses which is the true power of the class. Heck without the power attack bonuses nobody would play this prc for power.

[herrhauptmann]

Still is not that big of a deal. That is just a few points here and there. Most of your damage comes from full attack power attack charging and those extra few points are insignificant to the total outcome. That is why I advocate for just using frenzies at the start of the day alone. You won't hurt your party (thus you are not a liability) and you get super power attack bonuses which is the true power of the class. Heck without the power attack bonuses nobody would play this prc for power.

You make an interesting point. But there's so many prestige classes on the market. How do I know that a frenzy-less Frenzied Berserker is the prestige class for me?
Can you tell me, how does the frenzy-less Frenzied Berserker feel about the trade deficit, shooting into melee, and other common concerns?
</:o) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html)

[MeeposFire]

I offer a 30 game trial period of trading in frenzy for the ability to not kill your party accidentally. If you decide you don't like you can have a complete refund of the frenzied berserker purchase but keep the ability to not kill your party accidently as my free gift to you! Call now!

[Geigan]

I offer a 30 game trial period of trading in frenzy for the ability to not kill your party accidentally. If you decide you don't like you can have a complete refund of the frenzied berserker purchase but keep the ability to not kill your party accidently as my free gift to you! Call now!

I'm not sure, what's the price on shipping and handling? How about full product? I'm not sure I can afford not doing my maximum output on damage in this action economy.

[MeeposFire]

But I pass the savings on to YOU! Order now and as an additional gift you can spend money on things other than stuff to keep you from killing the party. In addition any feats you took to save your party are now refunded in full to further be used to help your bottom line!

[Hirax]

What about the crappy pre req feats (destructive rage and intimidating rage I think)? :smallbiggrin:

[MeeposFire]

What about the crappy pre req feats (destructive rage and intimidating rage I think)? :smallbiggrin:

What you think you get stuff for free? I have needs too! But honestly folks those feats did not boost frenzy so if they are wastes without fenzy they were wastes with frenzy. And seriously Super Awesome Power Attack for Mighty Epic Hits? Best part ever!

EDIT: Good houserule though is to allow frenzied berserker to progress rage like the prc in the book of exalted deeds (champ of gwen) and make all the abilities of the class work with rage and give allies rage instead of frenzy.

[herrhauptmann]

I like seeing what we've accomplished here.
:tongue:
I think our work is now done.

[Doc Roc]

I like seeing what we've accomplished here.
:tongue:
I think our work is now done.

Alternatively, you can just very carefully misread the Righteous Rage (Wrath?) feat, or whatever it is, from BoED.

[subject42]

like "break lock", "break device" or "break wall to make a hole where to hide"

I played a game once where the party Barbarian had a homebrewed feat that let him apply his strength modifier to knowledge checks.

At one point he had to make a knowledge religion check and decided to use the feat. The character ran screaming over the horizon and came back a few minutes later with a novice priest, who he was savagely beating about the head screaming "TELL ME WHAT YOU KNOW".

[Gnaeus]

All depends on the whether the berserker we've encountered had a good will save or not. Some idiots take the class without thinking about the effect of that bloodlust after the encounter... or worse they intentionally take it to with a low will save to mess up the campaign. Those guys are known as Frenzied Munchkins. They froth at the mouth at the suggestion of non-optimization.

This! The excitement of being able to PVP in a non-pvp game, with the plausible deniability of "Oh, sorry, did I kill you? Well, I just failed my will save, so I was just playing my character".

Worse, given the fact that by the time FB is really kicking in, most casters can make or do without a meatshield, the existence of the class in most parties really strains credibility. If the most dangerous threat in the dungeon is the guy on my own team, you can bet that we will be parting ways at the soonest opportunity! I would be really unlikely to play in a party containing a FB, unless he had both a good will save and a method of rerolling 1s (or not failing saves on a 1). Neither one is that hard to get, and both are generally useful. Lets turn that 1 in 20 chance of going psycho on me into a 1 in 400 please.

[The Cat Goddess]

A Frenzied Berserker is not a Meat Shield... he is a Meat Puppet. :smallbiggrin:

[SpartanKiller13]

For the FB-Grease/Marbles issue, Boots of Flying.

For the Meatshield issue, all I will say is Aggro tanking. If you piss off the enemies, they try to kill you.

For Deathless Frenzy, it's a perk. Don't plan on using it, just take it when you can.

For the casters using spells on them to stop them, well, the FB is taking hits/saving offense spells, but I would definitely consider getting an item.

Keeping your FB in a rod of security or similar item prevents stray +1 arrows from punching his arrow protection.

Any of a number of items can summon small creatures easily identifiable as enemies for it to kill (DM?).

As for benefits, you're not in FB for the +10 str. You're in for the x4 Power Attack, and the moving cleaves (+reach +pounce = messy). The inspire frenzy helps when you have a bunch of mook-allies around you.