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The Pressman
2011-04-19, 10:56 PM
I have realized that none of my players have read it. Could I pull off a more freeform, explore-style game with this location and plot? If you think so, any ideas how?

TheCountAlucard
2011-04-19, 11:07 PM
I have realized that none of my players have read it.They could still suffer from exposure to it. :smalltongue: For instance, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion does a pretty decent homage to it. :smallamused:


Could I pull off a more freeform, explore-style game with this location and plot?Yes. I certainly did.


If you think so, any ideas how?It depends on what system you're going with. Different systems will by definition force differences on how it's done.

The Pressman
2011-04-19, 11:10 PM
I was thinking of just 3.5, with modified items and such.

olthar
2011-04-19, 11:15 PM
They could still suffer from exposure to it. :smalltongue: For instance, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion does a pretty decent homage to it. :smallamused:

People have been telling me to play this game for a while, and this is the first decent reason I've heard to play it (and I started the elder scrolls games with arena).

TheCountAlucard
2011-04-19, 11:15 PM
I was thinking of just 3.5, with modified items and such.'kay. Well, depending on the level of the PCs, you could very well run such a scenario fairly easily. Look at the Skum from the Monster Manual; if the PCs are fairly low-level, a number of these may well be enough of a challenge to flee from.

Of course, if you want to keep the horror tone from the story, you're going to have to integrate that feel in from the start of the adventure. Make them feel ill at ease from the beginning, give hints from the start that things are subtly-wrong.

The Pressman
2011-04-19, 11:16 PM
Any specific ideas?

TheCountAlucard
2011-04-19, 11:35 PM
Any specific ideas?Kinda helps to know your players, of course. Knowing what sets them on edge, what gets them excited, angry, fearful, et cetera. For instance, when I was running the adventure, I specifically used monsters they were unfamiliar with as the main antagonists (Aboleths are great like that :smallamused:), since it's easier to be afraid of something you're not familiar with. Obviously, your group may or may not be familiar with skum and/or aboleths, so like I said, knowing more about the players helps.

The little details often help, too. The handful of red sand at their campsite on the way there, the smell of seawater and burnt wood as the players walk into the general store, and... what are these, claw marks? Not from a cat, anyway, that's for certain... hm.

Another thing that helps build up the fear a little in them is, honestly, nothing. Yeah, there's plenty of opportunities for a surprise attack, serving as a jump scare, and any player who's even slightly genre-savvy should be expecting it... like, say, when they go down into the shopkeeper's basement while he's distracted in bargaining with the wizard over some rope. It's too dark to see properly, and before they pull out the everburning torch, they hear some sort of shuffling sound, something being dragged away... but when the light is on, they see nothing moving.

There are instances when nothing really is scarier - it builds up the tension, leaves them wondering when something will strike. Don't overuse this, of course - overuse anything, and it starts to become less fun.

The Pressman
2011-04-19, 11:39 PM
Hmm. I'll be doing a lot of planning.

EDIT
And making sure I start out with none of them knowing it's a horror game. I need another name for Innsmouth.

TheCountAlucard
2011-04-19, 11:41 PM
Hmm. I'll be doing a lot of planning.Well, don't plan too much. Players are extremely good at messing up your plans, even inadverdently, so being skilled at improvising can be a very vital talent.

One player might decide to attack the mysterious priest who tends to the old, blasphemous church, despite your plans to have him exposit to the PCs. However, that's a good thing - it helps when their actions have consequences, even unintended ones... but you've gotta be able to roll with it.

Saintheart
2011-04-20, 04:22 AM
Go find The Last Breaths of Ashenport, which is basically this story in D&D format. :smallwink:

Kami2awa
2011-04-20, 06:41 AM
I've done it without the players catching on too fast even though several had read SoI; I changed a few things though. The undersea creatures were undead, not Deep Ones, and the townspeople's route to immortality was therefore transforming themselves into undead.

The undead lived in caverns and tunnels beneath the town (originally carved by the still unliving smuggler-pirate who started the whole thing and fulfilled the Obed Marsh role) which led into the sea. More undead lived underwater, because they could. Otherwise the setting was effectively identical.

Cartigan
2011-04-20, 08:22 AM
There is a 3.5 one-shot adventure that is more or less this. Or several.

I forget what it's called but there are some skum and an aboleth...

Akal Saris
2011-04-20, 11:08 AM
Ah...I played through most of Last Breaths. The DM didn't do that great a job making it feel Cthulhu-esque though...it just felt like another 'evil cultists are evil!' kind of module to me.

The Pressman
2011-04-20, 06:12 PM
I think I'll try to focus more on the story. I'll introduce it as a different game, and then have them go into <Innsmouth Lookalike Town> and then be more unsuspecting. I'll simply have to figure out a good hook.

stainboy
2011-04-21, 12:10 AM
Shadow over Innsmouth relies on dramatic tension. You know from the beginning what the town's secret is, but the story makes you wait for the reveal and it still works. Your players might not be as cooperative.

You: The bus is driven by a man named Joe Sargent. He seems to suffer from some unknown deformity. His forehead and chin slope backward, and he has strange wattles on the sides of his neck. Worst of all are his wide staring eyes, which never seem to blink.

Player: So he's a fish man, like on that jewelry we found? I ask the fish man why he is a fish man.

You: *facepalm*

The Pressman
2011-04-21, 09:12 AM
I'll have to figure out a way to make things conspicuous, but not necessarily perturbing unless viewed with a certain knowledge.

Cartigan
2011-04-21, 09:52 AM
The adventure we played did it pretty well but I can't remember what it was called.

Akal Saris
2011-04-21, 10:29 AM
Shadow over Innsmouth relies on dramatic tension. You know from the beginning what the town's secret is, but the story makes you wait for the reveal and it still works. Your players might not be as cooperative.

You: The bus is driven by a man named Joe Sargent. He seems to suffer from some unknown deformity. His forehead and chin slope backward, and he has strange wattles on the sides of his neck. Worst of all are his wide staring eyes, which never seem to blink.

Player: So he's a fish man, like on that jewelry we found? I ask the fish man why he is a fish man.

You: *facepalm*

See, this might be why standard D&D probably isn't the "right" system to run this in, rather than D20 modern or (gasp) Call of Cthulhu. The expectation in D&D is that fish people are real, fish people murder human fisherman because that's what fish people do, and your job as an adventurer is to kill fish people and fish people cultists. It kind of gets rid of a lot of the horror of fish people.

The Pressman
2011-04-21, 10:32 PM
See, this might be why standard D&D probably isn't the "right" system to run this in, rather than D20 modern or (gasp) Call of Cthulhu. The expectation in D&D is that fish people are real, fish people murder human fisherman because that's what fish people do, and your job as an adventurer is to kill fish people and fish people cultists. It kind of gets rid of a lot of the horror of fish people.

That's why I should have been more clear. 3.5 mechanics, different items, different world. Also, most of my players have had at least a casual encounter with Lovecraft*, and tend to play nice when I ask them to be serious.


*Although thankfully not Shadow over Innsmouth.

Akal Saris
2011-04-21, 10:50 PM
That's why I should have been more clear. 3.5 mechanics, different items, different world. Also, most of my players have had at least a casual encounter with Lovecraft*, and tend to play nice when I ask them to be serious.

*Although thankfully not Shadow over Innsmouth.

That's good to hear. I was really thinking more about the module Last Breaths of Ashenport than your planned game, since I didn't even realize Last Breaths was supposed to be a horror module until this thread. I doubt the 3.5 mechanics on their own won't detract from the horror of evil fish-men.

Pisha
2011-04-22, 02:09 PM
My friends and I will occasionally play a hand or two of "Do You Worship Cthulhu?" as a warm-up before getting into that night's rpg or board game. It's sort of a variation on "Are You A Werewolf?", if you're familiar with that sort of thing.

Point is, even with a silly, playful game like that, cheap atmospheric tricks like dimming the lights, playing creepy music, and talking in hushed tones really helps to get us in the appropriate mood. They're old gimmicks, but they're effective.

Also, as has been mentioned - the biggest drawback with 3.5 mechanics is that it presupposed combat. It's not impossible to make a character who's not built for battle, but you'd have to put some thought into it. And, well, to a character with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. It's good that your players are cooperative enough to play seriously for a horror game, but mechanics that encourage non-combat builds (base nWOD rules jump immediately to mind, but there must be others) are worth looking into, just so the characters are IC-ly aware that trying to fight the creepy horror monsters is a Bad Idea.

The Pressman
2011-04-22, 06:51 PM
I'm beginning to realize that something like Cthulhu Dark (http://www.thievesoftime.com/news/cthulhu-dark/) might be more suited. Rules-light, with little combat. More freeform. It also has no combat whatsoever.

awa
2011-04-24, 09:31 AM
keep in mind also the things that are supposed to be terrifying in shadow over insmouth interbreeding with fish men (as a metaphor for miscegenation) is not likely to be disturbing to a party that could theoretical have a half dragon in it. bizarre crossbreeds are for the most part not scary.

and like the previous post says a role playing party may be very happy to talk to the half fish people even knowing their half fish people if mating with fish people is consensual many parties i have run with would see no problem with it and might even think they are supposed to defend them from the mean people who would persecute them for being different.

also in a world where a giant spider is considered a basic causal threat and the gibbering mouther is a right in the monster manual running horror is hard.

The Pressman
2011-04-24, 06:46 PM
keep in mind also the things that are supposed to be terrifying in shadow over insmouth interbreeding with fish men (as a metaphor for miscegenation) is not likely to be disturbing to a party that could theoretical have a half dragon in it. bizarre crossbreeds are for the most part not scary.

and like the previous post says a role playing party may be very happy to talk to the half fish people even knowing their half fish people if mating with fish people is consensual many parties i have run with would see no problem with it and might even think they are supposed to defend them from the mean people who would persecute them for being different.

also in a world where a giant spider is considered a basic causal threat and the gibbering mouther is a right in the monster manual running horror is hard.

That's why I'd probably just use the mechanics, and not the world or items or monsters.

awa
2011-04-24, 07:17 PM
I also mean modern players are likely going to be much less disturbed by cross breeding then the people the story was written for.
If the breeding is consensual and they aren't doing anything else fishy (pardon the pun) many people wont care they'll go huh that's bizarre but likely that's it

Seatbelt
2011-04-24, 07:30 PM
a possible simple solutions I see. They abduct people and interbreed with them somehow. Aliens style, or something a little more mature rated, depending on your party and everyone's comfort level.

I'm going to run it in 3.5 because thats the system we know and love. But I'm going to adjust it a little and set it in 1930's new england. Here the problem is that the assumption is that fish breeding people is unnatural, the nearby civilization will disapprove so they hunt and kill adventures who inquire too closely. No reason you couldnt do it in.. FR or Grayhawk either. Set it in Cormyr. Evil cultists interbreeding with immortal fish people is probably not acceptable behavior in Cormyr.

The Pressman
2011-04-24, 08:31 PM
Ah. I realize that a lot of the horror that was scary for Lovecraft may not have such an impact, but I think I might be able to build up the right atmosphere to pull it off. If not, I can at least get the fish people bit right. I mean, it'll probably be set in 1920s-30s New England, or a fantasy analogue, but it won't be so fantastic as to remove the shock from the revelation.

awa
2011-04-24, 08:50 PM
see making it unconsensual brings it back into the creepy alternatively you could make it "the virus" and let them infect people somehow and turn them into monsters

thing is if their minding their own business and being attacked by the government regardless if its in forgotten realms or in America you have the danger of the pcs sympathizing with the fish men

Seatbelt
2011-04-25, 12:38 PM
i didn't mean have the gov't attack. Start the PC's in the next town over. Get some NPCs to comment on how something profoundly sinister is happening over in Xmouth and that all the other villiages in the area do best to avoid them. No they don't seem to be aggressive. They aren't a threat. Just something.. odd happening there. Has been for close to a hundred years.

stainboy
2011-04-26, 02:41 AM
Read the short story again, it wasn't all consensual. Also, the government did attack in the original. The first paragraph describes how the military did a sweep of the waterfront and then torpedoed Devil Reef from a submarine.

Do you plan to change the story to accommodate characters who can fight? A group of 3.5 PCs won't limit their abilities to matters antiquarian, architectural, and genealogical. Your fighter/cleric/wizard/rogue would at least consider making a stand in that hotel room. (Or strong hero/fast hero/cunning hero/charismatic hero, whatever they're called).

Sebastrd
2011-04-26, 10:34 AM
I just read through The Last Breaths of Ashenport last night, and it looks pretty well done. I'll definitely be using it as the basis for a Shadow Over Innsmouth plotline in my wife's game.

The Pressman
2011-04-27, 03:51 AM
Read the short story again, it wasn't all consensual. Also, the government did attack in the original. The first paragraph describes how the military did a sweep of the waterfront and then torpedoed Devil Reef from a submarine.

Do you plan to change the story to accommodate characters who can fight? A group of 3.5 PCs won't limit their abilities to matters antiquarian, architectural, and genealogical. Your fighter/cleric/wizard/rogue would at least consider making a stand in that hotel room. (Or strong hero/fast hero/cunning hero/charismatic hero, whatever they're called).

I doubt it. I'd just try to impress upon them the gravity of the situation. And remind them that they're horribly outnumbered. and normal.

Mewtarthio
2011-04-27, 11:58 AM
Read the short story again, it wasn't all consensual. Also, the government did attack in the original. The first paragraph describes how the military did a sweep of the waterfront and then torpedoed Devil Reef from a submarine.

Yes, but that only happened after the protagonist escaped and warned them of the danger. The government's not going to start oppressing poor innocent fish-men until the PCs show up and mention that the fish-men are trying to murder them.

Besides, it's not like Innsmouth lacks anything creepy besides the miscegenation metaphor (and the racism's not even as strong here as it is in certain other works *coughdunwichhorrorcough*. The protagonist initially thinks they've all got the same genetic disease, which implies inbreeding). Like the fact that you have to take the mysterious "Oaths of Dagon" before they'll stop plotting your death. We don't know exactly what they entail, but given that Exposition Guy starts screaming about how "They'll never make me take the Third Oath! I took the first two, but no force in the world will make me take the last!", I'm betting it's not exactly the Boy Scout Code.

Plus, they're building up a military force down there. That's rarely a good sign.